PoorBob Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.d...INESS/606220352 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSkipper Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 More complicated = more problems. KISS Skipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 More complicated = more problems. KISS Skipper This IS simpler. 7.3 had 1 huge 110V solenoid to pull a sprung ball off a seat which let let the HP-oil into the injector, pushing down the intensifier piston, compressing the fuel and opening the poppet valve to start injection. To end injection, the solenoid shuts off, stopping the flow of oil as the ball returns to its seat. The intensifier piston assembly has to then return to pre-injection position (via a spring) and the bore has to refill with fuel to ready for the next firing event. 6.0 dropped solenoid working voltage to 48 volts, but it has two. A shuttle valve instead of a ball and seat control HPO in the injector. Otherwise almost identical to the 7.3, except size. For peizo injectors, turn it on, it fires, turn it off it doesn't. In addition, common rail does away with the HPO system completely, reduces the number of parts in the injector itself, less wiring, and less demand on an injector driver module, if it is needed at all. Common rail also almost completely does away with mechanical injection lag associated with HEUI. It can (and usually does) fire the injector several times per stroke, where HEUI cannot. Remember the 6.0 started out with pilot injection which was unsustainable mechanically with even the smaller, lighter 6.0 injector. 7.3 had a mechanical pilot which was great at idle but reduced max power. With common rail and the peizo type injector, you can tailor pressure rise across the whole power stroke. This allows for better power, lower fuel consumption, lower emissions and quieter operation. It does add a HP-Fuel pump, which brings its own issues, but should be as reliable as the older distributor style pumps at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorBob Posted June 26, 2006 Author Share Posted June 26, 2006 Mechanically, it may be a simpler solution, but it will require more computer coltrols for the combustion process. I just hope they've got all of the bugs worked out of the software this time. That was the excuse they kept giving for problems with the 6-liter... software bugs. Bob This IS simpler. 7.3 had 1 huge 110V solenoid to pull a sprung ball off a seat which let let the HP-oil into the injector, pushing down the intensifier piston, compressing the fuel and opening the poppet valve to start injection. To end injection, the solenoid shuts off, stopping the flow of oil as the ball returns to its seat. The intensifier piston assembly has to then return to pre-injection position (via a spring) and the bore has to refill with fuel to ready for the next firing event. 6.0 dropped solenoid working voltage to 48 volts, but it has two. A shuttle valve instead of a ball and seat control HPO in the injector. Otherwise almost identical to the 7.3, except size. For peizo injectors, turn it on, it fires, turn it off it doesn't. In addition, common rail does away with the HPO system completely, reduces the number of parts in the injector itself, less wiring, and less demand on an injector driver module, if it is needed at all. Common rail also almost completely does away with mechanical injection lag associated with HEUI. It can (and usually does) fire the injector several times per stroke, where HEUI cannot. Remember the 6.0 started out with pilot injection which was unsustainable mechanically with even the smaller, lighter 6.0 injector. 7.3 had a mechanical pilot which was great at idle but reduced max power. With common rail and the peizo type injector, you can tailor pressure rise across the whole power stroke. This allows for better power, lower fuel consumption, lower emissions and quieter operation. It does add a HP-Fuel pump, which brings its own issues, but should be as reliable as the older distributor style pumps at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Mechanically, it may be a simpler solution, but it will require more computer coltrols for the combustion process. Bob with that mindset we can still run Model-T's piezzos are really simple.. and the simple answer is .. this is not a nw technology.. just a new application.. and not even that ... the Piezzo diesel has been out for about 3 years already in Europe .... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Mechanically, it may be a simpler solution, but it will require more computer coltrols for the combustion process.I just hope they've got all of the bugs worked out of the software this time. That was the excuse they kept giving for problems with the 6-liter... software bugs. Bob The controls necessary are already in use in the 6.0, and are more reliable than those on the 7.3. True, software was a major issue at first, but mechanical complexity and the lack of maintainance and or abuse by the owner are more prevelant than software bugs. The latest 03 software is by far the best, but it is intolerant of modifications by the aftermarket. igor is right, this is a good, solid technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I think that the injection system on the 6.4L is less complex and should be an improvement over what the 6L has, however the twin turbochargers will result in an engine with more potential problems, and an engine that is harder to service (didn't think that was possible!). It remains to be seen if the 6.4L will be an improvement or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSkipper Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Did I hear right? The 6.4 is supposed to have 6 EGR valves on it? There's only 1 on my 6.0, and it's been replaced twice and cleaned once. I can't immagine the problems 6 of those would cause? Skipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 We've replaced alot of egr valves on the 6.0L's under warranty, within 3/36 no charge within 5/50 a $50.00 dedutable if 5/100 a $100.00 deductable. From what i've seen the problem is the people buying trucks with the 6.0 treat it like an old style diesel, you know idles forever etc. Drive these suckers like you stole'em keep all fluids and filters clean using only top quality products and they don't have as many problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) So, here's the question: If, say, you had a friend who had never owned a diesel before, but he is planning to buy a SD PSD unit, but he needs to buy it in the next 9-12 months, would you recommend he buy the 07 6.0PSD or the 08 6.4PSD? Mind you, this friend has already test driven a Dodge/Cummins and knows how quiet a CR system can be versus a HEUI, and he's driven the 06 PSD. He can tell the sound difference. He knows about the 03/04 PSD 6.0 issues, though not much detail, and he knows 05 and 06 introduced some changes. He's not sure whether the 06/07 brought back the pilot injection functionality. He heard Ford got rid of it during a reflash. He likes the idea of a quieter engine, as he's used to a gasser. He heard about potential better MPG and more torque, but 570-ft/lb and such will work fine for him, and he's not buying a diesel for the miserly use of fuel, he's buying it for the hauling power. He doesn;t have any diesel friends to brag to, anyway. He's not sure what injector "lag" is and if he'd notice or care about it, but it seems important on some of the forums he looked at, so he guesses it must be an issue. Then he saw posts from Ford diesel techs talking about particulate filters (and something about yearly replacement), having to take the cab off for engine service (he's terribly confused about how extensive of service would require the cab to be removed) and the fact some folks have mentioned they think buying a first year engine is not a great idea. Obviously, he's also fretting about the new exterior, wondering about the new interior (he thinks if he sits in a F150, it's probably very similar), and he generally likes the current package, but he knows the enginer and drivetrain are extremely important. On the one hand, he worries about being one of the 6.0 statistics, but on the other hand, he's not sure he'll remember to do all the normal diesel care and feeding of the 6.0 much less the additional steps on the 6.4. He's not obviously thrilled with the additional price or the wait, but he plans to own the truck for the better part of a decade so a bit a cash and a bit more time is not such a huge deal. My *ahem* friend would love to get an answer, as he's ready to replace current gasser. Edited July 10, 2006 by jbrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Find a used 7.3. Any particular reason? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 Isn't the Cumminis much weaker than the PS? Other than that - I do not know. I can talk diesels all day, but not the US huge V8 diesels... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYSkipper Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Isn't the Cumminis much weaker than the PS? Other than that - I do not know. I can talk diesels all day, but not the US huge V8 diesels... Igor It depends on what you are doing with your diesel and how turned up either motor is. The Cummins and the older 7.3 Powerstrokes were pretty even with the Cummins having a slight torque advantage. At highway speed towing a heavy load, the 7.3's would outrun the Cummins trucks. As far as this 6.0 l diesel goes. There's no comparison. The older 5.9 Cummins will walk on a 6.0 in all aspects. The newer 600 Cummins isn't quite the 5.9, but it is more powerful than the 6.0's. The thing about the 5.9's is they are factory majorly detuned. Add a little juice to them and they'll walk on a powerstroke. The Cummins can take a lot more modification than a Powerstroke. Go to a diesel truck pull sometime and see which ones are winning. Skipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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