ice-capades Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'll throw in this: Dealer stock comes in two forms: Dealer allocation and dealer orders. Based on any number of factors, Ford will assign each dealer so many units of a particular model, say, "10 Fusion SEs, 30 Fusion SELs, 8 Fusion Sports, etc." The dealer is getting these vehicles automatically. They do not have to order them. The dealer is also allowed to add to that allocation. A dealer can, AFAIK, insert a customer order as part of an order for dealer stock, except that (again, AFAIK), dealer stock orders are limited to certain combinations of color, trim, and equipment that Ford expects to sell in volume. To give an example: my dad ordered a custom Club Wagon in '82. The main 'oddball' components were rear heat only, a manual transmission and the I-6. This order, if made today, could probably not be made up as part of a dealer stock order because Ford would likely consider this combination of features to be too 'out there'. Dealer allocation and dealer stock orders are given a higher priority than customer orders because of the nature of the business. If more customers placed orders, there would be more flexibility in scheduling, however, as it stands, Ford prioritizes dealer stock/allocation because this represents the overwhelming bulk of their business. Richard... Sorry but Dealer stock orders and allocation are two entirely different matters. Please see my other posts for information regarding both of these matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hi Richard. Maybe deanh can comment, but as far as I know, Ford only builds to dealer orders. There is always a recommended or projected mix of series in the Order Guide package to assist the dealers in ordering, but the mix might not actually come out that way in real life over time. It is true (I think) that there is an allocation system on models that have tight supply. But as far as I know, the dealers generally have their choice on ordering whatever color or other specs they want. I think Ford can suggest model mix (well, Ford's sales reps might be a bit more forceful than "suggest"), but I don't think Ford tells them what model mix to take (nor can Ford force a product mix; for example Ford can't say something like "you can only get a new Focus if you also order a Flex" ) . There have been cases in the past (but I'm out of touch) where CAFE has played a role. In some cases, certain powertrain combinations have been restricted. And, since the inertia test weight class which is used to set the resistance on the fuel economy dynos includes all options above 33%, then sometimes certain heavy options (like sunroofs) might have faced some restrictions to keep them out of the weight calculation. I'm not so sure that Ford prioritizes dealer orders over customer orders. It's really the dealer doing the prioritizing. But since dealers have orders in the bank in advance to replace projected sold units, the queue can be long, particularly on a hot new model. Sometimes if a dealer has an order in the queue they can substitute a customer order to move it up in the queue and bounce the intial dealer order further back. This can work for the dealer as they can turn a car immediately upon delivery. Depends on cooperation of the dealer, where the vehicle it is in the queue (it has to be far enough out that the material ordering isn't locked in), and success of negotiating with Ford's Ordering and Scheduling guys. This certainly isn't my area of expertise (hmmmm, I'm not sure what is, in fact), so I could be off base on some of these comments. Austin... I don't get to spend as much time here on BON as I used to so I haven't run across "Deanh" much but he's a very good source for information. As far as prioritizing orders for scheduling, it's all up to the Dealer to establish the order in which they want orders scheduled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Austin... I don't get to spend as much time here on BON as I used to so I haven't run across "Deanh" much but he's a very good source for information. As far as prioritizing orders for scheduling, it's all up to the Dealer to establish the order in which they want orders scheduled. Thanks a lot. Your previous note filled in a lot of holes in my knowledge of dealer ordering and scheduling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Dealers are offered allocation for each vehicle line on pretty much a monthly basis with allocation being determined for the following month's production. Where vehicle allocation is offered, the Dealer can take what's offered, take fewer units or ask for supplemental allocation in addition to what's offered. The supplemental allocation may or may not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line. It's very difficult to get supplemental or additional allocation when a vehicle line is in high demand. Once the Dealer has committed to the allocation plan for the upcoming production month, the Dealer has to take those units within available commodities. My mistake on terminology---As I said, most of this information has been picked up in conversations. At any rate, it's my understanding that Ford places restrictions on how supplemental allocation can be configured, as opposed to retail orders, such that a dealer could add a customer's request to the next month's allocation instead of submitting a retail order--but only if the customer's request was within certain limits. Edited March 27, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NNRT Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 NNRT- Some questions, if you don't mind: What color did you get? What items did they considered outside the normal specs? How long did it take to get to you, from order to delivery? How do you like it? My MKX is Gold Leaf Metalic Ordered it in the First week of July at my dealer - found it was built approx August 18th - finally got to my dealership around September 15th - ( in fact I saw it on their lot one early morning and told the dealership it had arrived - picked it up later that day. They usuallly do not order the GPS for stock units - and some times not the glass roof - as it builds up the price - I had a 2010 MKT - that I had for about 8 months - just too big - too long - it had the ecoboost engine - gas economy is similar to the MKX with out the turbo - Probably the best car I have ever had - very quiet inside - comfortable - just perfect in my opinion ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Austin... Pretty good summary of the ordering process! Dealers order vehicles for their market based on what they feel will sell the easiest and quickest as the entire allocation system is based on the "Turn & Earn" system whereby the more units in a vehicle line that a dealer sells, the more allocation they'll earn. As such, the first priority is always to sell from dealer stock and then, if necessary, to locate a vehicle at another dealership that the dealer can swap in for delivery to the retail customer. The other option is obviously to place a retail order with the customer's specifications so that the customer can get the exact vehicle they want based on the Order Guide. It's when a retail order is placed that the issues of allocation, scheduling weeks and commodity issues come into play. Dealers are offered allocation for each vehicle line on pretty much a monthly basis with allocation being determined for the following month's production. Where vehicle allocation is offered, the Dealer can take what's offered, take fewer units or ask for supplemental allocation in addition to what's offered. The supplemental allocation may or may not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line. It's very difficult to get supplemental or additional allocation when a vehicle line is in high demand. Once the Dealer has committed to the allocation plan for the upcoming production month, the Dealer has to take those units within available commodities. Dealers place all orders in the USOB (Unscheduled Order Bank) with priority codes determining the order in which orders will be scheduled for the weeks that a Dealer has allocation. Retail orders are now restricted to priority codes 10-19 and stock orders to priority codes 20-99. Orders with the lowest priority codes are schedules first based on allocation and commodity restrictions. Each week there are a number of reports that a Dealer can review to help them get orders scheduled when they have allocation for that week and vehicle line. Dealers can re-prioritize orders in order to move orders up or down in order to deal with that vehicle line's commodity issues. In addition, in any week that a Dealer has allocation, Ford generates suggested orders that reflect any commodity restrictions in place for that week. Reports available show a Dealer's historical sales, projected vehicle mix, zone sales mix, etc. Ford's "Suggested Orders" are generated with a "50" priority code and Dealers can take those orders, make changes or re-prioritize them like any other order. If a Dealer has allocation for a particular week and the Dealer has no "Clean/Unscheduled" orders in the USOB (Unscheduled Order Bank) that meet the commodity restrictions in place, Ford will schedule the Suggested Orders. Your post raises many questions, plus gives me the impression that for a retail order to happen the stars and moon must be aligned in a very specific manner. Questions 1.What is a vehicle lines commodity issue? 2.What is considered a commodity restriction? 3.Is a retail order (customer factory order) considered part of a dealerships "Turn & Earn" allocation totals? 4.If a specific Zones sales mix is 95% F150's what does this mean to a customer who wants to factory order a Focus from a dealership in this F150 friendly Zone? 5.How does this system work when vehicle line predicted allocation mix gets buggered up when the market place all of sudden drastically changes from large vehicles to small vehicles. 6.What does it mean when you say "if a dealer has allocation for a particular week? 7.Is a retail order always considered as supplemental or additional allocation, or would a dealership that has a customer base that tends to factory order more then the average include this in their monthly predetermined allocation? 8. Are there months of the year that are more favorable to factory order then other months? 9. When a vehicle line is in high demand, is this when a dealership does not want to deal with customers factory orders? 10.How large are these Zones that control particular vehicle line allocation? 11.If a dealership in your zone does not sell many small cars, does this leave more small cars to be had for the other dealers in this zone? 12.Are there cases in this Zone where one dealership sales are so large that this determines what the rest of the dealers in this Zone are granted? 13. Does the dealership have a good idea if a certain customer factory order vehicle will not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line? I would assume that the salespeople are not the ones to talk with when wanting to do a factory order, as this would be better handled by the person who works with the monthly allocations and understands when, where, weekly commodity restrictions etc that would have an effect on a certain vehicle line chances of being built and or delivered in a reasonable time frame. I also assume that each Zone is watched over by a Zone Manager, and this person or office would also know if a said factory order has a chance in hell of being built in this particular Zone. My point being with these areas being managed by very specific personnel at both dealership level and Zone area that someone would/should know and be able to communicate whether a customers factory order is a yay or a ney situation for that said week/month or next months Zone allocation. A suggestion would be that each dealership have a "factory order" specific person to deal with these customers. After reading many explanations of how this works between Ford & dealerships, there does not appear to be any specific language between Ford & dealerships pertaining to customers factory order. It appears that customer factory orders live in a gray area. Edited March 28, 2011 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 My MKX is Gold Leaf Metalic Ordered it in the First week of July at my dealer - found it was built approx August 18th - finally got to my dealership around September 15th - ( in fact I saw it on their lot one early morning and told the dealership it had arrived - picked it up later that day. They usuallly do not order the GPS for stock units - and some times not the glass roof - as it builds up the price - I had a 2010 MKT - that I had for about 8 months - just too big - too long - it had the ecoboost engine - gas economy is similar to the MKX with out the turbo - Probably the best car I have ever had - very quiet inside - comfortable - just perfect in my opinion ! This one is also beautiful car but LOL it doesn't look too small either. :-) It's a good thing you spotted it at the dealer's before they sold it ... again! And you sound just like me. I had a 2010 Taurus Limited - loaded. I got it 07/27/2010 and sold it 03/05/2011. Not quite 8 months! I said in an earlier post somewhere it was a beautiful car; quiet, comfortable but the cabin was so big, I could never get a sense of how big it was outside. Same size as the MKT ... maybe a couple of inches smaller ... and like you, maybe the best car I've had and w/amenities the MKZ doesn't have, e.g., push button start, assisted cruise, sunshade (very hot here in the summer). If I recall the specs correctly the MKZ is 13" shorter and 13" narrower. I ordered it 02/22 and the build date was 03/21. The salesman called last Friday and said it's still scheduled to arrive 04/04, and so is GrandmaC's. We can pick them up 04/05 ... a week from tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 This one is also beautiful car but LOL it doesn't look too small either. :-) It's a good thing you spotted it at the dealer's before they sold it ... again! And you sound just like me. I had a 2010 Taurus Limited - loaded. I got it 07/27/2010 and sold it 03/05/2011. Not quite 8 months! I said in an earlier post somewhere it was a beautiful car; quiet, comfortable but the cabin was so big, I could never get a sense of how big it was outside. Same size as the MKT ... maybe a couple of inches smaller ... and like you, maybe the best car I've had and w/amenities the MKZ doesn't have, e.g., push button start, assisted cruise, sunshade (very hot here in the summer). If I recall the specs correctly the MKZ is 13" shorter and 13" narrower. I ordered it 02/22 and the build date was 03/21. The salesman called last Friday and said it's still scheduled to arrive 04/04, and so is GrandmaC's. We can pick them up 04/05 ... a week from tomorrow. PS According to cyberdman, it was in production on 03/23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 Your post raises many questions, plus gives me the impression that for a retail order to happen the stars and moon must be aligned in a very specific manner. Questions 1.What is a vehicle lines commodity issue? 2.What is considered a commodity restriction? 3.Is a retail order (customer factory order) considered part of a dealerships "Turn & Earn" allocation totals? 4.If a specific Zones sales mix is 95% F150's what does this mean to a customer who wants to factory order a Focus from a dealership in this F150 friendly Zone? 5.How does this system work when vehicle line predicted allocation mix gets buggered up when the market place all of sudden drastically changes from large vehicles to small vehicles. 6.What does it mean when you say "if a dealer has allocation for a particular week? 7.Is a retail order always considered as supplemental or additional allocation, or would a dealership that has a customer base that tends to factory order more then the average include this in their monthly predetermined allocation? 8. Are there months of the year that are more favorable to factory order then other months? 9. When a vehicle line is in high demand, is this when a dealership does not want to deal with customers factory orders? 10.How large are these Zones that control particular vehicle line allocation? 11.If a dealership in your zone does not sell many small cars, does this leave more small cars to be had for the other dealers in this zone? 12.Are there cases in this Zone where one dealership sales are so large that this determines what the rest of the dealers in this Zone are granted? 13. Does the dealership have a good idea if a certain customer factory order vehicle will not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line? I would assume that the salespeople are not the ones to talk with when wanting to do a factory order, as this would be better handled by the person who works with the monthly allocations and understands when, where, weekly commodity restrictions etc that would have an effect on a certain vehicle line chances of being built and or delivered in a reasonable time frame. I also assume that each Zone is watched over by a Zone Manager, and this person or office would also know if a said factory order has a chance in hell of being built in this particular Zone. My point being with these areas being managed by very specific personnel at both dealership level and Zone area that someone would/should know and be able to communicate whether a customers factory order is a yay or a ney situation for that said week/month or next months Zone allocation. After reading many explanations of how this works between Ford & dealerships, there does not appear to be any specific language between Ford & dealerships pertaining to customers factory order. It appears that customer factory orders live in a gray area. Great questions, MK, some of which I wish I had known to ask when I ordered mine. This is a great forum; I'm learning a lot, and I hope Ice-capades (or someone) will respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Your post raises many questions, plus gives me the impression that for a retail order to happen the stars and moon must be aligned in a very specific manner. Questions 1.What is a vehicle lines commodity issue? 2.What is considered a commodity restriction? 3.Is a retail order (customer factory order) considered part of a dealerships "Turn & Earn" allocation totals? 4.If a specific Zones sales mix is 95% F150's what does this mean to a customer who wants to factory order a Focus from a dealership in this F150 friendly Zone? 5.How does this system work when vehicle line predicted allocation mix gets buggered up when the market place all of sudden drastically changes from large vehicles to small vehicles. 6.What does it mean when you say "if a dealer has allocation for a particular week? 7.Is a retail order always considered as supplemental or additional allocation, or would a dealership that has a customer base that tends to factory order more then the average include this in their monthly predetermined allocation? 8. Are there months of the year that are more favorable to factory order then other months? 9. When a vehicle line is in high demand, is this when a dealership does not want to deal with customers factory orders? 10.How large are these Zones that control particular vehicle line allocation? 11.If a dealership in your zone does not sell many small cars, does this leave more small cars to be had for the other dealers in this zone? 12.Are there cases in this Zone where one dealership sales are so large that this determines what the rest of the dealers in this Zone are granted? 13. Does the dealership have a good idea if a certain customer factory order vehicle will not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line? I would assume that the salespeople are not the ones to talk with when wanting to do a factory order, as this would be better handled by the person who works with the monthly allocations and understands when, where, weekly commodity restrictions etc that would have an effect on a certain vehicle line chances of being built and or delivered in a reasonable time frame. I also assume that each Zone is watched over by a Zone Manager, and this person or office would also know if a said factory order has a chance in hell of being built in this particular Zone. My point being with these areas being managed by very specific personnel at both dealership level and Zone area that someone would/should know and be able to communicate whether a customers factory order is a yay or a ney situation for that said week/month or next months Zone allocation. A suggestion would be that each dealership have a "factory order" specific person to deal with these customers. After reading many explanations of how this works between Ford & dealerships, there does not appear to be any specific language between Ford & dealerships pertaining to customers factory order. It appears that customer factory orders live in a gray area. You're making this way too complicated. Commodity holds means some part isn't available due to supplier issues or a pending change or some other issue that prevents Ford from building the vehicle with a specific option. This happens a lot with wheels and it appears to now be the case with the MyFordTouch system in the Ford Focus and certain paint colors like Tuxedo Black due to the Japan crisis. It's always temporary and these are usually spelled out very clearly to dealers who can choose not to order vehicles with commodity holds. Once the dealer submits the custom order to Ford and there are no commodity holds, then it simply comes down to allocation and how many other retail orders are already submitted for that dealer and their priorities (10-19). If they're all 10 (which they should be) then I assume it's FIFO. I think the dealer allocation issue only comes up once in a while with low volume dealers and/or low volume vehicles. The problem is when it does come up the dealer won't usually admit to it so it's hard to know for sure. One way around the allocation issue is Retail Order Verification where Ford takes retail orders and builds them without going against the dealer's normal allocation. This was used for the 2010 Fusion Hybrid among others. It allows buyers to order a potentially hard to get vehicle from the dealer of their choice without worrying about whether the dealer has allocation. It also allows the dealer to sell more orders without affecting their normal allocation for stock inventory. I wish they'd extend this to all retail orders although I'm sure some dealers would object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Very informative and engaging thread! Incidentally, here is some more information about Ford's Vehicle Special Order (VSO) Dept. that ice-capades mentioned. My employer used VSO for part of its F-150 fleet order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NNRT Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You're making this way too complicated. + 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 You're making this way too complicated. One way around the allocation issue is Retail Order Verification where Ford takes retail orders and builds them without going against the dealer's normal allocation. This was used for the 2010 Fusion Hybrid among others. It allows buyers to order a potentially hard to get vehicle from the dealer of their choice without worrying about whether the dealer has allocation. It also allows the dealer to sell more orders without affecting their normal allocation for stock inventory. I wish they'd extend this to all retail orders although I'm sure some dealers would object. I do not feel I made this issue complicated, I think Ford & dealership have made the issue complicated. If it was not complicated there would not be this discussion. Your last paragraph can you say why some dealers would object to this? Sorry if my questions are stupid, but the way I understand what you wrote is that Ford limits how many units a dealership can sell outside of the normal allocation. It is like a quota system were once outside your monthly quota (allocation) the red tape begins. But it appears not to be controlled by a specific dealership but by many dealerships in your Zone or at least has some bearing on each others business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_trainer Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I do not feel I made this issue complicated, I think Ford & dealership have made the issue complicated. If it was not complicated there would not be this discussion. Your last paragraph can you say why some dealers would object to this? Sorry if my questions are stupid, but the way I understand what you wrote is that Ford limits how many units a dealership can sell outside of the normal allocation. It is like a quota system were once outside your monthly quota (allocation) the red tape begins. But it appears not to be controlled by a specific dealership but by many dealerships in your Zone or at least has some bearing on each others business. I agree. Not stupid at all. In fact I asked in another area of this forum what constitutes a commodity, and I got no answer. Is it an engine, a windshield or a navigation system or all of the above? There are free issue parts too which are parts you can have as many of as you want. Is that a windshield, engine or tire? Does a free issue become a commodity? Does a commodity become a free issue? Is a commodity restriction determined months, weeks, or days before production? As as far as allocations go, unless you have inside information, you roll the dice and take your chances on whether a dealer can actually fulfill your order. How can one know? What stops the dealer from lying to you just to get your money and commitment to by? It's almost as if you are discouraged from ordering and that you will buy what we have available and like it. I have ordered several vehicles over the span of my life time from other North American manufacturing, and by far the order I am waiting for has been the most frustrating (Mustang). Waited almost 10 weeks for the order just to go through and now the build date gets pushed around like a shell game. Im sure I'm going to lose $1000.00 incentive that ends May 2 because my car won't be delivered on time. Ok so be it. Probably a good reason for it (more than likely parts shortages), but the lack of simple communication makes this all the more frustrating. I'm probably going to be a little leery ordering another "special" from Ford the next time I'm in the market for a new vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 I agree. Not stupid at all. In fact I asked in another area of this forum what constitutes a commodity, and I got no answer. Is it an engine, a windshield or a navigation system or all of the above? There are free issue parts too which are parts you can have as many of as you want. Is that a windshield, engine or tire? Does a free issue become a commodity? Does a commodity become a free issue? Is a commodity restriction determined months, weeks, or days before production? As as far as allocations go, unless you have inside information, you roll the dice and take your chances on whether a dealer can actually fulfill your order. How can one know? What stops the dealer from lying to you just to get your money and commitment to by? It's almost as if you are discouraged from ordering and that you will buy what we have available and like it. I have ordered several vehicles over the span of my life time from other North American manufacturing, and by far the order I am waiting for has been the most frustrating (Mustang). Waited almost 10 weeks for the order just to go through and now the build date gets pushed around like a shell game. Im sure I'm going to lose $1000.00 incentive that ends May 2 because my car won't be delivered on time. Ok so be it. Probably a good reason for it (more than likely parts shortages), but the lack of simple communication makes this all the more frustrating. I'm probably going to be a little leery ordering another "special" from Ford the next time I'm in the market for a new vehicle. "Im sure I'm going to lose $1000.00 incentive that ends May 2 because my car won't be delivered on time. " robot- Check with your dealer ... and forget the 'OK so be it' loss of $1000. Our dealer told us that, if need be, we can sign the papers early to lock in our $3400. Incentive that ends 04/04, the day the car is supposed to arrive, but ...? I also had the same issue with my 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. There was a $2400. hybrid tax credit that expired on 09/30. The dealer called me to come in and sign the papers on 09/29 but I didn't pick up the car until 10/05. They have work arounds. You don't have to take the money loss for a delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_trainer Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 "Im sure I'm going to lose $1000.00 incentive that ends May 2 because my car won't be delivered on time. " robot- Check with your dealer ... and forget the 'OK so be it' loss of $1000. Our dealer told us that, if need be, we can sign the papers early to lock in our $3400. Incentive that ends 04/04, the day the car is supposed to arrive, but ...? I also had the same issue with my 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. There was a $2400. hybrid tax credit that expired on 09/30. The dealer called me to come in and sign the papers on 09/29 but I didn't pick up the car until 10/05. They have work arounds. You don't have to take the money loss for a delay. . Well, I'm not OK with giving up $1000, what I did mean was that I do understand unforeseen circumstances cause delays, but would it be nice if someone said "hey this is our fault so we will honor any rebates that were available when your car should have been delivered". I have a bit of an advantage with my dealer since I'm friends with the GM and he tells me what he know and sends me unsolicited status documents all the time. In fact I have a meeting with him next week to see what new incentives are available for April (since the original ETA was April 10). I'm not sure if Canada is different from the US in that you get the best incentives at the time or purchase or delivery. When I purchased I got a $3000.00 rebate. A few weeks later the $1000.00 incentive came up, but they couldn't apply it unless I canceled the order and re-ordered. I didn't want to loose my place in line (and now I'm glad I didn't). So the only way to get the $1000.00 is if I take delivery by May2. The way things are looking that isn't going to happen. Of course something better might show up in May. Maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedonut Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 But I'm pretty sure they can lock in the $1000. for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 (edited) I do not feel I made this issue complicated, I think Ford & dealership have made the issue complicated. If it was not complicated there would not be this discussion. Your last paragraph can you say why some dealers would object to this? Sorry if my questions are stupid, but the way I understand what you wrote is that Ford limits how many units a dealership can sell outside of the normal allocation. It is like a quota system were once outside your monthly quota (allocation) the red tape begins. But it appears not to be controlled by a specific dealership but by many dealerships in your Zone or at least has some bearing on each others business. What is a commodity? It's the stuff of which cars are built--it can be engines, it can be paint, it can be any of a number of things. That's why it's called a 'commodity hold', not an 'engine hold', 'paint hold', 'left handed widget hold', etc. "Commodity hold" means there's some shortage of some item or some issue with some item that is delaying the build. Further, don't read too much into the allocation system. Ford's production has to be scheduled somehow, and the allocation system works about as good as anything. Your allocation is based on your sales history, and while this means that a truck heavy dealership may have a shortage of Focuses for a while because their share of the production is low, and the production is maxed out, but if there's demand, they'll turn those Focuses quickly, and will earn more allocation. Ultimately, you have to stop looking at this in terms of individual transactions under worst case scenarios, (e.g. 'what if I walk into a dealer and they don't have a car that I want? Ford is screwed up.') and start looking at this in terms of bulk transactions (e.g. '96% of customers find the vehicle they want in inventory.') Edited March 30, 2011 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Your post raises many questions, plus gives me the impression that for a retail order to happen the stars and moon must be aligned in a very specific manner. Questions 1.What is a vehicle lines commodity issue? 2.What is considered a commodity restriction? 3.Is a retail order (customer factory order) considered part of a dealerships "Turn & Earn" allocation totals? 4.If a specific Zones sales mix is 95% F150's what does this mean to a customer who wants to factory order a Focus from a dealership in this F150 friendly Zone? 5.How does this system work when vehicle line predicted allocation mix gets buggered up when the market place all of sudden drastically changes from large vehicles to small vehicles. 6.What does it mean when you say "if a dealer has allocation for a particular week? 7.Is a retail order always considered as supplemental or additional allocation, or would a dealership that has a customer base that tends to factory order more then the average include this in their monthly predetermined allocation? 8. Are there months of the year that are more favorable to factory order then other months? 9. When a vehicle line is in high demand, is this when a dealership does not want to deal with customers factory orders? 10.How large are these Zones that control particular vehicle line allocation? 11.If a dealership in your zone does not sell many small cars, does this leave more small cars to be had for the other dealers in this zone? 12.Are there cases in this Zone where one dealership sales are so large that this determines what the rest of the dealers in this Zone are granted? 13. Does the dealership have a good idea if a certain customer factory order vehicle will not be granted based on how much allocation is granted for a Zone overall and whether or not other dealers in the Zone take all their allocation for a particular vehicle line? I would assume that the salespeople are not the ones to talk with when wanting to do a factory order, as this would be better handled by the person who works with the monthly allocations and understands when, where, weekly commodity restrictions etc that would have an effect on a certain vehicle line chances of being built and or delivered in a reasonable time frame. I also assume that each Zone is watched over by a Zone Manager, and this person or office would also know if a said factory order has a chance in hell of being built in this particular Zone. My point being with these areas being managed by very specific personnel at both dealership level and Zone area that someone would/should know and be able to communicate whether a customers factory order is a yay or a ney situation for that said week/month or next months Zone allocation. A suggestion would be that each dealership have a "factory order" specific person to deal with these customers. After reading many explanations of how this works between Ford & dealerships, there does not appear to be any specific language between Ford & dealerships pertaining to customers factory order. It appears that customer factory orders live in a gray area. Sorry for the delay in responding to your questions above. For some reason I kept getting error notices any time I tried to reply the past few days. 1 & 2. A vehicle line commodity issue can be any option or component that will prevent the vehicle order from being scheduled. Below is a copy of the commodity issues and restrictions for 2012 Mustang orders from a week ago. FYI... There is no commodity report for 2012 Mustang this week as no Mustang orders are being scheduled this week. MUSTANG – SIMS – Commodities will vary by dealer On March 24 – Scheduling Unscheduled Allocation in Week 12 Allocated/Controlled Commodities: 5.0L 4V V8 w/ 6 Speed Manual Transmission (99F w/ 44X) It is recommended that you only be concerned with the following Plant & Labor or Supplier constraints if they are showing on your preview reports as a reason for non-selection: 2 Door Convertible - BS-BH – (P8E, P8F, P8K) 5.0 Boss Less Laguna – OBDVR – (P8C w/ 500A) 5.0 Boss with Laguna – OBDVS – (P8C w/ 501A) 5.0 GT Engine – OBDVZ – (99F) 6 SPD Man Trans NAAO T56 - TR-VE – (44E) All 8 Cylinder Gas Engines - EN-08 – (99S) AM/FM Str/Cd/Clk/Navig System – IBAED – (58N) Bodyside Accent Stripe – CJRAB – (46B) Boss Package – AALJE – (558) – (standard on 500A and 501A) FIA - Hood Scoop – FHQAB – (944, 945 & 946) FIA - Pedestal Rear Spoiler – FIIAC- (Standard in California Special Package -- 402A) Included in Accessory Packages 943, 944, & 945) GT 5.0L – MTX Trans – OBC4S – (99F w/ 44X) GT Version – Car - VS-AX – (P8C) Lighting Package Level A - JBWAC – (standard on P8A or P8E w/200A, 201A, 202A & 203A; P8C or P8F w/400A, 401A or 402A) P215/65R17 BSW - D3KBE – (T3B or T3G) Manual Slide Sun Roof – CHAAB – (59G) Rear View Camera-Fixed - J3KAB – (77C) Seat-Recaro-DRV/PASS – FS - N – (MW) – (available on P8C w/ 500A and 501A) Shelby Over the Top Tape Stripe – OBCYJ – (Must use 46D [paint stripe delete] and 6X interior) Shelby Version - VS-F5 – (P8J & P8K) SVT Racing Stripes – CJRBA – (46S) SYNC Media Gateway Module – IEVAB – (standard on P8A or P8E w/200A, 201A, 202A & 203A; P8C or P8F w/400A, 401A or 402A) Total Convertible/Glass Roof - OBC1R – (P8E, P8F, P8K and P8A, P8C & P8J w/59G) Total Paint Stripe (non-OTT) - OBC14 – (46B) Body Accent Stripe and (46S) SVT Racing Stripes V6 3.7L MTX Trans – OBC4T – (99M w/ 44X) The #1 reason a Dealer order did not schedule is commodities. The reason(s) may relate to either an exhausted regionally allocated commodity or an exhausted non-allocated constraint as identified above. Such constraint exhaustion generally only applies to the total number of commodities available in that target week or weeks being scheduled. 3. Any vehicle sale, whether the vehicle was ordered for stock or was a retail order placed for a customer counts as a sale and can help a Dealer earn additional allocation in the next wholesale/allocation plan. 4. Each month, Dearborn determines how many units for each vehicle line they will produce for the upcoming allocation/scheduling and production period. In the next few days Dealers will completing the April plan which is for vehicles that will be produced in May. From the total production plan volume for each vehicle line, Dearborn then determines the Regional allocation which is then broken down to allocation for each Zone in the Region... until allocation is detertmined per vehicle line for each individual Dealer. All allocation is based on sales history and inventory in stock at all levels. The biggest factor affecting allocation is what's called "Days Supply" with a 60 day supply of vehicles being the industry standard. It doesn't make a difference how many F-150's are sold in regard to Focus allocation as every vehicle line is treated independently. 5. I wouldn't worry about the issue of sudden Market changes as Ford is probably in the best position of any manufacturer to react. Part of it is the vehicle plan enacted by Ford's CEO 4 years ago which specifically anticipated and plans for increased demand for smaller and/or more fuel efficient vehicles as gas prices are expected to increase at some point to $4.00 plus which was the trigger 3 years ago to a sudden increase in demand. In addition, as Ford retools more plants, they're being converted to "Flex" manufacturing whereby a much greater configuration of different models can be built on the same assembly line. The all-new 2012 Focus is being built at the former MIchigan Truck Plant and by the end of the year will be able to produce the 2012 Focus with 4 different powertrains... Gas, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid & Electric. Thw Wayne Asembly Plant which assembled the previous generation Focus will be retooled as a 2nd Focus plant with capacity for additional body styles, models and demand. The Focus is moving upscale slightly in price for the lower end models which will make more room for the Fiesta and the upper trim levels of the Focus (SEL, Titanium) will offer substantially more features and options than previously available which will cause a lot of overlap with the Fusion series. Overall, Ford is in excellent shape to deal with future changes in Market demand for smaller and/or more fuel efficient vehicles. They're also working hard to make sure that every vehicle line has best-in-class fuel efficiency and developing new, advanced powertrains to achieve those goals. 6. Vehicle scheduling is normally done on a weekly basis with whatever allocation a Dealer has for a particular vehicle line usually spread evenly over the allocation/scheduling period. If a Dealer earns allocation for 4 Mustangs, usually they will get that allocation over the 4 week scheduling period with allocation for 1 Mustang each week. It doesn't always turn out that way buy after the allocation plan is locked in, Dealers have daily reports that provide all the specific allocation information for each vehicle line. 7. Sometimes Ford offers a "Retail Verification" system on specific vehicle lines whereby the Dealership scans and uploads a copy of a signed Buyer's Order, copy of the purchaser's Driver's License, etc after entering the customer Retail Order via the CONCEPS online ordering system. Once the customer information is reviewed and verified by Ford, the order is scheduled on an expedited basis regardless of a Dealer's allocation for that vehicle line. It's scheduled "above and beyond" the Dealership's allocation for that vehicle line and doesn't affect their allocation for getting any other vehicles in the vehicle line scheduled. Most notably in the past, Ford offered such a system to expedite orders for Escape Hybrid & Fusion Hybrid models. There has been a lot of discussion here on the BON Forums about why Ford should provide expedited, non-allocation based scheduling for ALL retail orders. I agree completely and have had numerous conversations with our Ford Zone Manager about it and been told that Ford will NOT offer it in the future because it would be to disruptive to the current scheduling process. 8. The worst time to place a Retail Order is when a vehicle line is going into "Balance Out" which is the last scheduling and production for the end of the Model Year or series before a next generation model goes into production. This is when commodity restrictions can be critical as the supply of certain commodities, options, etc can be exhausted early. 9. As far as I'm concerned, there's NEVER a bad time to deal with a customer's factory order! The customer has decided on the specifications they want and doesn't want to settle for another vehicle with different paint, trim, options. They may sometimes have to wait longer than they wish for the vehicle based on allocation, commodity issues, etc. but they take delivery of the exact vehicle they ordered. To the benefit of the Dealership, the vehicle is received and delivered within days and there's no inventory floorplan interest expenses. 10. Ford recently added more Zone Managers and at least where our dealership is there are now 10 dealers in each zone compared to 12 dealers previously. We're already seeing more frequent service and attention as a result of the change. The Zones don't control allocation as it's all based on sales, etc. as I've addressed above. 11. The allocation for scheduling and production is all based on sales history, inventory, days supply as addressed above. One dealership's poor sales for a particular vehicle line won't normally affect the Zone's allocation for that vehicle line. That Dealer will just earn less allocation compared to other dealers in the Zone for that vehicle line. 12. If one Dealer in a Zone has substantially higher sales for a vehicle line compared to other dealers in the Zone, that Dealer will just earn more allocation for future scheduling. 13. Based on all the information that Ford supllies to its dealers, each Dealer has a pretty good idea as to the chances of a Retail Order being scheduled in the short or long term based on the posted commodity issues/notices. When the allocation plan is being finalized for a Zone, some Dealer(s) may not take all the allocation they are offered for a particular vehicle line. That's when Dealers who asked for supplemental allocation for a vehicle line can pick up allocation they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. For any customer placing a factory order, I've always advised that they find out who at the Dealership manages the Order Bank and then talk to them directly as they're in the best position to give you the updates that you're looking for. Unfortunately. sales representatives are not always the best sources for updates on your factory order. You want to talk to the person that deals with factory orders directly and will give you straight information and not tell you what they they think you want to hear. The Ford Zone Manager is a very valuable resource to dealers that are engaged. I regularly send our Ford Zone Manager an updated list of unscheduled retail orders so that we can work together on getting them scheduled even when dealing with commodity issues and restrictions. There are times when a Retail Order can get scheduled even though there would normally be commodity issues in place preventing scheduling otherwise. A DEaler that has a good relationship with Ford management will always be more successful getting orders scheduled! I hope that my answers here help answer the questions that you posted! If I can be of any further assistance please let me know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_trainer Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 That was some excellent information. I've printed this and will have it framed! I do have a question. I understand how commodities affect scheduling. Once scheduled, would it be safe to assume that the allotment of parts have been assigned/purchased for the build of the unit and the scheduled build week/day fluctuates depending on whether those parts show up when they are suppose to? Also, I may have missed something in your post. What does the bold items vs the none bold items signify? Thanks for your input. they should model all dealers after you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 That was some excellent information. I've printed this and will have it framed! I do have a question. I understand how commodities affect scheduling. Once scheduled, would it be safe to assume that the allotment of parts have been assigned/purchased for the build of the unit and the scheduled build week/day fluctuates depending on whether those parts show up when they are suppose to? Also, I may have missed something in your post. What does the bold items vs the none bold items signify? Thanks for your input. they should model all dealers after you! A vehicle order won't be scheduled unless it meets all the commodity restrictions in place at the time of scheduling. A new commodity might become restricted the following week but it won't affect the unit scheduled a week earlier because it met all the commodity issues in place at that time. If for any reason there's a last minute issue it will only affect the scheduled unit on a temporary, very short term basis. In any event, the Dealer gets updates on a daily basis for all scheduled units. The bold, underlined items applies to commodity issues applicable for suggested orders that the Dealership may have received for that week's scheduling period. Thanks for the kind words of support, etc. I just hope that I've got everything correct here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 A vehicle order won't be scheduled unless it meets all the commodity restrictions in place at the time of scheduling. A new commodity might become restricted the following week but it won't affect the unit scheduled a week earlier because it met all the commodity issues in place at that time. If for any reason there's a last minute issue it will only affect the scheduled unit on a temporary, very short term basis. In any event, the Dealer gets updates on a daily basis for all scheduled units. The bold, underlined items applies to commodity issues applicable for suggested orders that the Dealership may have received for that week's scheduling period. Thanks for the kind words of support, etc. I just hope that I've got everything correct here!!! I'll ride coat-tails here...excellent job Ice, hopefully some will understand how complex the whole process is and restrain themselves from complaining when they cannot be supplied instantanous info from the Dealership level pertaining to their "custom order"....Cheers!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I do not feel I made this issue complicated, I think Ford & dealership have made the issue complicated. If it was not complicated there would not be this discussion. Your last paragraph can you say why some dealers would object to this? Sorry if my questions are stupid, but the way I understand what you wrote is that Ford limits how many units a dealership can sell outside of the normal allocation. It is like a quota system were once outside your monthly quota (allocation) the red tape begins. But it appears not to be controlled by a specific dealership but by many dealerships in your Zone or at least has some bearing on each others business. Any customer, prospective or actual, should be able to ask any question and expect to get a straight answer. Whether or not someone else thinks that they're making it more complicated is besides the point. As for scheduling matters, why would any Dealer object to Retail Orders getting scheduled ASAP? There is absolutely NO limit on the number of vehicles that a Dealer can sell. Both Ford and its Dealers want to sell as many vehicles as possible! Allocation, normal or otherwise as you put it, has nothing to do with actual vehicle sales and any limits are there are no limits on sales. There really is no RED TAPE. Either the Dealer has allocation for scheduling a vehicle or not for a specific allocation and scheduling week. If the Dealer has allocation and the vehicle order meets the commodity restrictions in place that week, the vehicle will be scheduled. The allocation and commodity restrictions are not controlled by anyone other than Ford Motor Company and its ability to build vehicles to specifications in the Order Guides, in accordance with commodity restrictions forced by production and/or supplier issues. Hope this helps clarify things further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I'll ride coat-tails here...excellent job Ice, hopefully some will understand how complex the whole process is and restrain themselves from complaining when they cannot be supplied instantanous info from the Dealership level pertaining to their "custom order"....Cheers!.... Thanks Dean! I made a reference to you recently, in this thread I believe, about you being a very vauluable resource for matters like this. Now if only the whole process at the dealership level got easier as Ford keeps promising. Instead, it takes more and more time each week to manage the dealership's oder bank, commodity issues change even after the commodity letter is issued for a week, etc. Ford is being far too conservative with their inventory management and production plans and it's costing Ford and its dealers business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Thanks Dean! I made a reference to you recently, in this thread I believe, about you being a very vauluable resource for matters like this. Now if only the whole process at the dealership level got easier as Ford keeps promising. Instead, it takes more and more time each week to manage the dealership's oder bank, commodity issues change even after the commodity letter is issued for a week, etc. Ford is being far too conservative with their inventory management and production plans and it's costing Ford and its dealers business. we just HAD ( or give up allocation ) to order three Expeditions.....as long as they werent Black or Red...ahem, and they had to have lower accent paint ( YUCK ) could NOT be Limiteds......I think there were a few morre constarints as well.....its no wonder customers are annoyed at not being able to find what they want....hopefully, through what has been explained here they will figure out a LOT gos on behind closed doors, and a LOT that the dealers are forced top do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.