NickF1011 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Never mind. This thread is, by now, hopelessly lost and unutterably stupid. Isn't that what happened to the last thread on this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 No, but it would help if you explained how it's possible for you to be happy with Ford for not focusing on quality and angry at Ford for not focusing on quality. Who said I'm happy that Ford is forgoing quality for technology? If I had to choose, I'd choose the later since clearly we can't have both it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 (edited) Who said I'm happy that Ford is forgoing quality for technology? If I had to choose, I'd choose the later since clearly we can't have both it seems. You did: Ultimately I'd rather have the Ford we have now which is ambitiously innovating, than the Ford we had a few years ago which focused on quality ahead of design and leadership. But they continue to blunder in some big ways which seems unnecessary with better management and quality control. Edited August 7, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Which is why this topic is no longer circling the drain. It's in the P-trap and well on its way to the sewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Cheri, no need to bring up the issues actual owners are experiencing. Too many users here have built in excuses for those problems, or they say these other users have an axe to grind with Ford products, or those other forum posts are the minority, no matter how many different sites and users post these same issues over and over again. Sure we may not know the full extent of the problem for many of those users posting their problems, but clearly by many of those posts, that are quite a few experiencing issues with the newer products. Yup, and Gloria is right, but bet those users from all these other forums posting their issues would disagree with her and many here that want to discredit the problem they as actual owners are experiencing. I frequent quite a few F150/F-Series forums, and have to side with Cheri here rather than Gloria. Exactly. If there is a problem with any make/model, no matter how big/small it may be, it's a problem, no excuses. Like on my '06 F150 with 45K miles. I'm about to replace the driver door window switch for the 3rd time. Not hard and can do myself, takes about 5 minutes. It was covered under warranty the 1st time. Replaced it again early 2011 again at $70-$75 for the part, and now it's acting up again. Sure the truck has been practically flawless otherwise, but to replace the window switch 3 times in 6yrs and not even driving it that much. It's a poor design that Ford has not improved upon and this is a common problem with the 04-08 F150's and the dealers are too familiar with the issue. But I guess not being able to roll up/down your window isn't an issue though and owners should just expect to replace their window switch every couple years. Of course you would agree with Cheri. I have seen your posts, and know your posting tendencies, just as I have Cheri. Lets just say that they are very similar. Cars and trucks are my passion. When I hear/read people spewing information that is counter to my understanding, I go and do research. Here is a tidbit of info that you may not know...................... people who have an issue with something often post on different forums, under different names. Thus, you can have 20 people with a problem, but spread over 5 forums, it looks like 100 people. You have to look beyond face value. Here is another tidbit............... trans software issues is not an Ecoboost problem. It is a Ford truck problem. It does not discriminate between drivertrains or engines. Some people have the issue and it is really noticable. Some people have it in a very minor sense, but due to the posts all over the internet, really pay attention to it more, so it becomes a big issue. Most do not have it. Ford truck forums are THE biggest and busiest truck forums in existance. Their membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands. You don't think if this issue was HUGE, that you wouldn't see it all over these forums?? Perspective please. Tidbit number 3...................... why is it if a new Ecoboost truck has an issue that has nothing to do with the engine, does the title always something akin to, "OH NO, massive problems with my Ecoboost !!!!" ? Yet, the thread is about a Sync problem, or a trim issue, or an interior something or other............... but it has nothing what-so-ever to do with the engine. Is it because this engine is something new in trucks, and people feel the need to attribute every characteristic of the truck, to the engine?? Frankly, I don't know, but it is something I have observed with interest. Yes, I do see patterns in things. Some of us do, and some of us don't. For some interesting reason, people feel it is more necessary to point out problems/irritations/etc in relation to the Ecoboost, than they do with the other engines. It almost seems like there is this self consciousness/insecurity about owning a V6 truck, that many said would suck. Frankly, it is fascinating. You certainly don't see threads like "My 5.0 is a POS !!!!" based on the fact that an electronic interior doodad failed. Just an observation. BTW, I do not in any way feel that the problems that folks are having with their trucks should be diminished. When you have an issue, it is a real issue to you, and needs to be fixed. When looking at trends, however, one has to look at the big picture, and put things in perspective. If you want a homework assignment, please do the following. Look at the problems and issues with the 2009/10 trucks vs the 11/12. Yes, you will have to go back in the archives to find them, as what is happening today is hardly indicative of what was happening when they were new. You have to compare apples with apples. I will tell you right now, that they had ALOT more listed problems than the newer trucks......................... and that was with carryover engines. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 What Gloria said. You go girl. Why is it that any time someone tries to put reported problems into a factual context people like V8-X and Cheri somehow equate that to claiming there are NO problems at all or that Ford should ignore the situation? The original MFT was a total fiasco but even it did not affect every vehicle produced. We had Edge owners who hardly ever had a problem with the original software, but any time that was mentioned the folks who had problems went ballistic calling me a Ford employee and apologist, etc. Until the other owners actually spoke up and confirmed that they were not having the same problems as everyone else. If 75% of a model has a serious problem that's one thing. If 10% have a minor issue then that's entirely different. Like Gloria said - Perspective please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Well, there's also a lot more to the ownership experience than what goes wrong with the vehicle while you own it. Even when things break, that typically accounts for a very, very small percentage of the time you have the vehicle. The rest of the time is the owner getting in and out of it every day, dealing with the interior and all of its controls, looking at it in the driveway, enjoying how it behaves on the road, etc. If the overall driving experience is pleasant, a couple problems here and there usually aren't going to change anyone's mind. Kind of like a wife with a hot body and good in bed but is high maintenance, huh..? Edited August 20, 2012 by mettech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Oh come on...................... I'm not high maintenance !!!! :D Sorry, I couldn't resist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Of course you would agree with Cheri. I have seen your posts, and know your posting tendencies, just as I have Cheri. Lets just say that they are very similar. Just like we've all seen your posts before and know your tendencies. Personally, I agree with the point "I" believe is valid, whether you agree/disagree. Like most people do regarding vehicles or politics and a whole realm of items. Cars and trucks are my passion. When I hear/read people spewing information that is counter to my understanding, I go and do research. And no one else has passion a for auto's or does research? Here is a tidbit of info that you may not know...................... people who have an issue with something often post on different forums, under different names. Thus, you can have 20 people with a problem, but spread over 5 forums, it looks like 100 people. You have to look beyond face value. Or you could have 100 different people posting on 5 different forums. Goes both ways. And I understand what you're saying, and agree it occurs. But at the same time you have plenty of unique individuals, with different years, trims, colors, etc making the same claims. Like I have stated in many different threads, I take everything with a grain of salt. But as problems grow and persist, you can't simply ignore the them because it's on a forum. Examples being a couple different 5.4L spark plug issues, started small and has grown quite a bit since more 04-07 F150's are now getting higher mileage. Here is another tidbit............... trans software issues is not an Ecoboost problem. It is a Ford truck problem. It does not discriminate between drivertrains or engines. Some people have the issue and it is really noticable. Some people have it in a very minor sense, but due to the posts all over the internet, really pay attention to it more, so it becomes a big issue. Most do not have it. Ford truck forums are THE biggest and busiest truck forums in existance. Their membership numbers in the hundreds of thousands. You don't think if this issue was HUGE, that you wouldn't see it all over these forums?? Perspective please. The issues with the EB/Trans combo, is fairly new and appears to only impact 11/12 model years. So unless Ford resolves the issues these owners are having, as more and more owners experience the problem, it'll simply grow. Not saying how far reaching the problem is currently. But it is a concern, and dealers know about it as do many in the forum community. So if dealers are aware, it must be big enough or common enough of an issue that Ford is working on a solution/TSB. And I don't think it's specific to the EB, but I don't know. You have to question why there are few to zero owners with the 3.7L, 5.0L or 6.2L having this same issue? Tidbit number 3...................... why is it if a new Ecoboost truck has an issue that has nothing to do with the engine, does the title always something akin to, "OH NO, massive problems with my Ecoboost !!!!" ? Yet, the thread is about a Sync problem, or a trim issue, or an interior something or other............... but it has nothing what-so-ever to do with the engine. Is it because this engine is something new in trucks, and people feel the need to attribute every characteristic of the truck, to the engine?? Frankly, I don't know, but it is something I have observed with interest. Yes, I do see patterns in things. Some of us do, and some of us don't. For some interesting reason, people feel it is more necessary to point out problems/irritations/etc in relation to the Ecoboost, than they do with the other engines. It almost seems like there is this self consciousness/insecurity about owning a V6 truck, that many said would suck. Frankly, it is fascinating. You certainly don't see threads like "My 5.0 is a POS !!!!" based on the fact that an electronic interior doodad failed. Just an observation. See a few of those threads and admit it does occurs. From my experience though, many simply refer to their truck as an "Ecoboost", rather than F150, as it's unique or is a way to differentiate their truck from others. I agree through, to reference Ecoboost when the problem is unrelated to the motor just doesn't make sense. When owners are having a drive ability issue, I can understand some of their concern cause is it the trans? Or the PCM or ECM or the motor, or what? BTW, I do not in any way feel that the problems that folks are having with their trucks should be diminished. When you have an issue, it is a real issue to you, and needs to be fixed. When looking at trends, however, one has to look at the big picture, and put things in perspective. If you want a homework assignment, please do the following. Look at the problems and issues with the 2009/10 trucks vs the 11/12. Yes, you will have to go back in the archives to find them, as what is happening today is hardly indicative of what was happening when they were new. You have to compare apples with apples. I will tell you right now, that they had ALOT more listed problems than the newer trucks......................... and that was with carryover engines. Most the 09/10 model issues I remember off the top of my head were transmission related (first 2yrs of the 6spd in the F150). There were some bed alignment issues as well. And true, they may have had more issues. But it was a new body style and transmission, whereas the 11/12's were for the most part just new motors and most other parts were carry over. So I'd expect to see more complaints about the 09/10 directed at the transmission and items non-motor related. But for the 11/12 models, I'd expect the biggest issues to be motor related. Which from my experience on these sites, holds true. And actually, I've seen few 3.7L, 5.0L and 6.2L issues, most have been 3.5L related. And no I'm not saying the EB is a bad motor, just think there are still some kinks that may need worked out. Why is it that any time someone tries to put reported problems into a factual context people like V8-X and Cheri somehow equate that to claiming there are NO problems at all or that Ford should ignore the situation? Maybe because of the way you and some others attempt to dismiss practically any Ford issue. Again, I don't attempt to make a mountain into a mole hill, nor do I do the reverse. But if there is an issue, and there are enough documented owners experiencing the issue and dealers are familiar with the problem, it's just not a blip on the radar. A random issue here/there is one thing and can be dismissed mos the time. As more and more owners experience said issue, then it's much harder to dismiss. Well, for most people other than yourself, which appears you can dismiss practically any issue a Ford product may have. Like I stated earlier about the window switch in my F150. It's not a huge headache or causes drive ability issues. But simply do an internet search and tell me it's not a problem for 04-08 MY F150s. I don't think Ford needs to recall all these trucks, but think they really need to look into why the part fails. I just replaced mine for the 3rd time (4th unit) this past weekend. Each dealer I called was familiar with the problem, all kept a dozen or so in stock because of their failure rate, and Ford has yet to redesign the part. But guess what, the price has gone up by roughly $20-$25 from the last time I replaced it. My dealer even felt sorry for me when I took in the two old units (in their box) and even pulled the unit from my truck before I went into the parts center. So I had 3 failed units in hand when I went to the counter and they gave me 15% off the new switch. But I guess to many here this is not an issue or concern that Ford should address, cause it's an 04-08 MY, Ford already made their money on those trucks, no more need to invest into those products, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Recalls are issued only when the safety of the vehicle is in question. Ford is not going to recall window switches unless there's a risk of fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Maybe because of the way you and some others attempt to dismiss practically any Ford issue. Again, I don't attempt to make a mountain into a mole hill, nor do I do the reverse. But if there is an issue, and there are enough documented owners experiencing the issue and dealers are familiar with the problem, it's just not a blip on the radar. A random issue here/there is one thing and can be dismissed mos the time. As more and more owners experience said issue, then it's much harder to dismiss. Well, for most people other than yourself, which appears you can dismiss practically any issue a Ford product may have. You see a problem that affects some vehicles and you assume that the problem is widespread (based on a few posts in an online forum) and that it's a big problem for Ford and that Ford is losing customers because of it and the world is coming to an end. Other people read the same forums and see some problems but put them into the bigger context with a little perspective. Nobody is saying that these problems don't exist - just that they aren't the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Recalls are issued only when the safety of the vehicle is in question. Ford is not going to recall window switches unless there's a risk of fire. And I never said Ford has/should to recall the truck. I know recalls occur when it's a safety related issue, whether it's possible fire causing issue, loss of steering, SUA and the like. What I'm trying to say is, Ford is well aware of the issue with these window switches, and know they have an extremely high failure rate. So why have they not developed a replacement part and new part number to address this issue? All my window switches have the identical part number, and the dealer part counters concur there has never been a redesign. Ford did this with the 5.4L spark plugs that were snapping off in the heads, which I'm glad they did. So why not the window switch? My truck is 6yrs old with only 45K on the clock, and am now on my 4th switch. Don't you think replacing a window switch every 2yrs is a little excessive? How much R&D could it really cost to identify/resolve the issue? But I'm not here to harp on my window switch. Like I stated, this truck otherwise has been flawless and I'm willing to replace the switch at $100 every 2yrs if there aren't any other problems. Point being though, Ford should address the issue regardless of my feelings. You see a problem that affects some vehicles and you assume that the problem is widespread (based on a few posts in an online forum) and that it's a big problem for Ford and that Ford is losing customers because of it and the world is coming to an end. Where did I say the issues were wide-spread? I've stated I don't know how far reaching the issues are, and why I take each claim initially with a grain of salt. Now as these claims become more common (typically as more of these MY's get on the road and have more miles on them) and more owners post about them, and my dealer see's increased volume for these issues, it becomes concerning. But also at the same time, you can't claim these issues aren't wide-spread either since you don't have any data back your position either. And I never said it's the end of the world and Ford was losing customers? You are making assumptions about my posts that I never stated. I am a Ford fan, I've owned practically nothing but Fords, and more than likely will continue to purchase only Ford products for myself (can't speak for the wife & kids). At the same time though, I'm not going to dismiss an issue if it arises. All vehicles have problems, regardless of make/model, we all know this. It just amazes me how many people love to jump all over GM or Dodge/Chrysler or any other make when they have issues, but can't look at their beloved Ford in the same light. To me, and like I stated earlier, it's like politics. Too many people can only see it from their liberal/conservative, Rep/Dem, side of the fence, rather than taking everything into context and understanding there is good/bad on both sides of the fence. No political stance or auto manufacturer is perfect and they each have their faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) they have an extremely high failure rate. So why have they not developed a replacement part and new part number to address this issue? Maybe because the flaw is not with the design of the switch, but the parts used to assemble it? Or maybe the problem isn't as widespread as you seem to think it is. Or maybe you've got an issue somewhere else in your electrical system. Point being: You don't know what's going on, so why assume that your solution is the only or necessarily the best one? Edited August 21, 2012 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Maybe because the flaw is not with the design of the switch, but the parts used to assemble it? Or maybe the problem isn't as widespread as you seem to think it is. Or maybe you've got an issue somewhere else in your electrical system. Point being: You don't know what's going on, so why assume that your solution is the only or necessarily the best one? The problem has been identified as the contact points of the switch (up cycle only, down always works) as they wear down too quick. Not widespread? Simply check ANY F150 forum with an 04-08 MY section, it is an extremely common issue. I called every dealer in the Denver Metro area last Friday to check pricing, and like stated, all parts counters are well aware of the issue and they typically keep a minimum of 12 in stock because of their failure rate. And it's not related to my electrical system. The 1st time it would not roll up the pass/rear window. 2nd time it was the driver/rear window it would not roll up. 3rd time it was the driver window it would not roll up. And if it's an electrical issue, then a heck of a lot of F150's have electrical issues. Oh okay, we don't know what's going on and the best solution is simply to continue to purchase new window switches every few years because a part flaw? I did a real quick search on ONE of the forums I frequent and here is just a very tiny sampling of the results I received. It's all over FTE (which I know Gloria is a member of, and believe her husband is as well), FTW, fordf150.net, f150online, and heck, just do a google search and you'll find plenty of results. Owners have identified the problem, so why hasn't Ford corrected? Whether it's the design or parts used, it should be addressed by Ford either way. Part of the problem could be is the switch is made in Mexico, but can't say that's truly the issue. http://www.f150forum...h-repair-16672/ http://www.f150forum...-switch-159292/ http://www.f150forum...08-f150-155807/ http://www.f150forum...roll-up-154367/ http://www.f150forum...fix-2-a-155035/ http://www.f150forum...w-switch-29057/ http://www.f150forum...-problem-53213/ http://www.f150forum...ck-down-143052/ http://www.f150forum...back-up-132419/ http://www.f150forum...-switch-128217/ http://www.f150forum...windows-126650/ http://www.f150forum...-switch-124661/ http://www.f150forum...-switch-114565/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax43SwfvnRU http://www.ehow.com/...-2006-f150.html Edited August 21, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Owners have identified the problem, so why hasn't Ford corrected? I had to replace the heater core transfer assembly on my Sable this winter. The Ford dealership here in town carries this item in stock because it has a high rate of failure. Ford did not re-engineered the part, despite its installation on millions of DN101 vehicles from '96-'06. Not every problem is worth spending money to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Not every problem is worth spending money to solve. So it's okay to redesign a badly designed spark plug because it's creating bad PR because people were spending north of $1K for a plug change. But it's okay not to redesign the window switch and continue to make consumers fork over $ hand over fist because the problem isn't making headlines? And I apologize, like stated earlier, I don't want this discussion to be about the window switch, not my intention. Was simply pointing out as an example that yes Ford products have issues, that are posted quite often on the internet and people can't simply dismiss them, even though they want to try. Typically I attempt to keep my vehicles Ford/Motorcraft parts only, but the next time this part fails, I think I'll replace with an aftermarket unit. Edited August 21, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 So it's okay to redesign a badly designed spark plug because it's creating bad PR because people were spending north of $1K for a plug change. But it's okay not to redesign the window switch and continue to make consumers fork over $ hand over fist because the problem isn't making headlines? ... Typically I attempt to keep my vehicles Ford/Motorcraft parts only, but the next time this part fails, I think I'll replace with an aftermarket unit. 1) In a word: Yes Not all issues are created equal, there are no perfect parts and thus no perfect systems and therefore no perfect vehicles. Nor is it possible, or feasible, or wise to attempt to resolve all known issues. 2) If the aftermarket unit is made by the same manufacturer using the same materials and the same specs, which seems likely, it will probably have a similarly low MTBF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I had to replace the heater core transfer assembly on my Sable this winter. The Ford dealership here in town carries this item in stock because it has a high rate of failure. Ford did not re-engineered the part, despite its installation on millions of DN101 vehicles from '96-'06. Not every problem is worth spending money to solve. And just because it's reported on several forums doesn't mean that the failure rate is high (as a percentage of overall sales). From Ford's perspective this part may only fail on 5% of vehicles which is enough to say it's common and for it to be widely reported but that doesn't mean it affects every vehicle or enough vehicles for Ford to make a change. If you want a better example - Ford SUVs and Crossovers continue to have problems with loose seat tracks. I had this problem on my 93 Explorer and I have it now on my 08 Edge. I don't understand why they haven't fixed this problem in 25 years. It's a little frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) And just because it's reported on several forums doesn't mean that the failure rate is high (as a percentage of overall sales). From Ford's perspective this part may only fail on 5% of vehicles which is enough to say it's common and for it to be widely reported but that doesn't mean it affects every vehicle or enough vehicles for Ford to make a change. If you want a better example - Ford SUVs and Crossovers continue to have problems with loose seat tracks. I had this problem on my 93 Explorer and I have it now on my 08 Edge. I don't understand why they haven't fixed this problem in 25 years. It's a little frustrating. Dude. You try to discredit my claim, by using some 5% figure (where ever you pulled that out from), then start talking a problem you've experienced like it's more problematic and yada. Maybe the loose seat tracks only impacts 2% of vehicles but you are frustrated and want to gripe about it? Sound familiar? Double standard? So if the switch only fails 5% of the time, damn I must have the worst luck in the world, along with some of the people on these forums who've replaced their multiple times too. My original switch was built in '06, the 2nd switch built in '08, 3rd switch in '10 and my latest switch that has yet to fail (only installed last Friday) was built in '11. The chances of me getting 3 bad switches (5%) of all switches made, those are some one in a million chances. Go ahead, continue to attempt to dismiss Ford problems, I'm used to your stance. Me, I'm gonna call a spade a spade, regardless of make, model, political stance or what not. If there is a problem, I have no issues admitting it's a problem, not attempt to sugar coat and side step the issue. Just because the rest of my F150 has been practically flawless, does not in any way mean my window switch issue is non-existent. Edited August 21, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Dude. You try to discredit my claim, by using some 5% figure (where ever you pulled that out from), then start talking a problem you've experienced like it's more problematic and yada. Maybe the loose seat tracks only impacts 2% of vehicles but you are frustrated and want to gripe about it? Sound familiar? Double standard? So if the switch only fails 5% of the time, damn I must have the worst luck in the world, along with some of the people on these forums who've replaced their multiple times too. My original switch was built in '06, the 2nd switch built in '08, 3rd switch in '10 and my latest switch that has yet to fail (only installed last Friday) was built in '11. The chances of me getting 3 bad switches (5%) of all switches made, those are some one in a million chances. Go ahead, continue to attempt to dismiss Ford problems, I'm used to your stance. Me, I'm gonna call a spade a spade, regardless of make, model, political stance or what not. If there is a problem, I have no issues admitting it's a problem, not attempt to sugar coat and side step the issue. Just because the rest of my F150 has been practically flawless, does not in any way mean my window switch issue is non-existent. Did I imply that it affects a large number of owners? No. Could just be me. I said it was annoying. I did not imply that it's something that Ford has to fix. I did not imply that if Ford does not fix it that it will cause big problems. I did not imply they would lose customers. I did not imply that the world is going to end if it's not fixed. That's the difference between the negatards and the rest of us who are able to keep problems in perspective and understand the difference between an annoyance, a minor issue and a major issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Did I imply that it affects a large number of owners? No. Could just be me. I said it was annoying. I did not imply that it's something that Ford has to fix. I did not imply that if Ford does not fix it that it will cause big problems. I did not imply they would lose customers. I did not imply that the world is going to end if it's not fixed. That's the difference between the negatards and the rest of us who are able to keep problems in perspective and understand the difference between an annoyance, a minor issue and a major issue. Below is your statement. You did imply it affects a large® # of owners by stating your seat issue was a better example than my window switch reference. This implies the problem you've experienced is "better" because it's farther reaching and more common/wide-spread of an issue. You did state you don't understand why Ford hasn't fixed the problem, which basically implies it's an item Ford should address (fix). And again, where did I say Ford would lose customers, or the world was going to end in any of my posts? Minor issue or major issue are "all problems" regardless of what the issue is. My window switch is becoming a costly minor issue, where as the 5.4L spark plug design was a costly major issue. I admit Ford should and has addressed the plug issue first. But just because the window switch is minor doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. I bet Toyota thought the floor mat issue and gas pedal issues were minor annoyances too at one point in time. If you want a better example - Ford SUVs and Crossovers continue to have problems with loose seat tracks. I had this problem on my 93 Explorer and I have it now on my 08 Edge. I don't understand why they haven't fixed this problem in 25 years. It's a little frustrating. Edited August 21, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Below is your statement. You did imply it affects a large® # of owners by stating your seat issue was a better example than my window switch reference. This implies the problem you've experienced is "better" because it's farther reaching and more common/wide-spread of an issue. You did state you don't understand why Ford hasn't fixed the problem, which basically implies it's an item Ford should address (fix). And again, where did I say Ford would lose customers, or the world was going to end in any of my posts? Minor issue or major issue are "all problems" irregardless of what the issue is. My window switch is becoming a costly minor issue, where as the 5.4L spark plug design was a costly major issue. I admit Ford should and has addressed the plug issue first. But just because the window switch is minor doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed. I bet Toyota thought the floor mat issue and gas pedal issues were minor annoyances too at one point in time. My annoyance was the fact that it's been happening for 25 years. You seem to be incapable of understanding the difference between minor problems and major problems. Just because some owners are having problems doesn't automatically mean Ford has to drop everything and fix it immediately. In some cases it's better (from Ford's standpoint) to just replace the part a few times rather than redesign it. It all depends on the cost and how many units are affected and whether that part is destined to be used long term or not, etc. etc. It also depends on whether a new part is even available - especially when they're outsourced to suppliers. And saying that a failure is "unacceptable" is ridiculous. Everything mechanical will fail at some point. A few minor issues are expected and not a big deal. More, bigger issues are a concern. Huge or frequent issues can be a big problem if they're not dealt with accordingly. Look at lemons. Every mfr has them at some point. If they only have 1 out of 100K that's fantastic. 1 out of 10K is still pretty good. 1 out of 1000 isn't good. 1 out of 100 is terrible. 1 out of 10 is an absolute disaster. It's all about perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 irregardless 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) My annoyance was the fact that it's been happening for 25 years. And that's a valid point, and I follow you. I've never personally experienced this issue, but I also don't discredit the issue either. You seem to be incapable of understanding the difference between minor problems and major problems. Just because some owners are having problems doesn't automatically mean Ford has to drop everything and fix it immediately. In some cases it's better (from Ford's standpoint) to just replace the part a few times rather than redesign it. It all depends on the cost and how many units are affected and whether that part is destined to be used long term or not, etc. etc. It also depends on whether a new part is even available - especially when they're outsourced to suppliers. Perfectly capable of understanding a minor/major problem. But let's see, they made this truck from 04-08 (production began in 2003), and I'm unsure if they still use that part in the 09+ F150's. So it's been around for roughly 8-9yrs now if you start with the 04 MY's. I don't think many people would call waiting 5+ years or more "immediate" for Ford to make an update/redesign this window switch. And I'm sure for Ford to replace the part a few times they are okay with that, because once the vehicle hits 3yrs/36K miles, typically all future failures are on the owners dime and they will be making profit off the sale of all future units that fail. So yeah if it's simply about the all mighty dollar, as it may be cheaper for Ford to replace the few under warranty. Not good if you look at Ford from the quality perspective. Which many times, it's these little items that eventually bring down a manufacturer's score within the rags. As some will call them, once the "nit picky" items start adding up and compounding upon one another, that's what really hits their quality/reliability rating 2-5yrs down the road. And saying that a failure is "unacceptable" is ridiculous. Everything mechanical will fail at some point. A few minor issues are expected and not a big deal. More, bigger issues are a concern. Huge or frequent issues can be a big problem if they're not dealt with accordingly. Look at lemons. Every mfr has them at some point. If they only have 1 out of 100K that's fantastic. 1 out of 10K is still pretty good. 1 out of 1000 isn't good. 1 out of 100 is terrible. 1 out of 10 is an absolute disaster. It's all about perspective. Failures occur and parts are bound to fail ...eventually. But my point is, if the window switch failed once, I'd believe that to be an anomaly or to be expected over time of service. To have 3 units fail in less than 6yrs of service and less than 46K miles, that is not an anomaly. It might be a minor part, but that minor parts continuous failures is "unacceptable". And I agree, a "few" minor issues are to be expected. But even though this is a minor part, it is a big deal because it is a far reaching problem, and "frequent" like you stated, it's not an isolated, specific MY type issue. It impacts all years 04-08, Scab and Screw models, since they all use this same part. It's not like the F150 airbag recall, that only impacted certain trucks made between certain dates, this spans the entire generation lineup. Agreed on the lemons. And it appears that this window switch design is a lemon and Ford should look into redesigning it. Like you stated though, it's about the $, Ford no long makes the 04-08 models and made their money off those sales already, and Ford is making money off the # of switches being replaced, so Ford has absolutely no incentive to redesign the part other than to make their consumers happy. Then again, Ford simply wants those owners to come buy a shiny new one instead of keep fixing the old one right? Cause it's all about the $. Edited August 21, 2012 by V8-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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