The joys of negotiation

[elle]

Did you notice the sarcasm dripping from the title of this post? I've been emailing dealers to get pricing information for the Fusion hybrid in the configuration I want. You'd think this would be easy-- these are professional salespeople, right? You ought to be able to tell them exactly what you want and have them give you a competitive price for exactly that configuration. But, nooooooo...

 

One guy (Scott) gives me a price for the base model without any additions and says he'll allocate one of his dealer stock orders if I order it within the next week. I write back and ask him to price out the additions I asked for... hmmm.... not a word back from him, and it's now several days later.

 

The second guy (Mike) actually gives me an awesome price, right out of the gate, and it's for exactly what I want. I write back to verify that there won't be any additional fees beyond destination and ADVA, and he says, nothing extra, just the fees I already know about. Sweet. I like this guy Mike.

 

Another guy (Nick) gives me list price on a fully loaded model with the driver assist stuff and moonroof that I don't want. He writes me back to follow up and I tell him I want a real, out the door price for the actual car I want to buy. Fine. He writes back with the proper configuration and a price that's $500.00 higher than Mike's price. So I write back and tell him that he's high, and I tell him what Mike has offered on my trade in (and that I like Mike's offer on the Fusion but not on the trade) and ask him if he can do any better.

 

I have a feeling I will be selling the Prius myself, but after looking at similar cars on local Craigslist, I'm a little concerned that I might not do much better than Mike's offer on my own. It's kind of depressing to realize this.

 

Another guy writes me to tell me that he's having his assistant contact me. She contacts me and says the salesman wants to talk to me and asks for my phone number. No WAY am I getting involved in phone conversations with seven different car salesmen! I say, sorry, no phone calls, just let me know if you can actually help me. The next day the salesman sends me a brief, annoyed e-mail asking exactly what he can do for me and whether I am serious about buying a car. So I tell him that I'm very serious but need to test drive the hybrid before I am 100% ready to place an order and am just trying to figure out who is going to give me the best price and deal straight with me with no surprises and no pain. And I tell him that I have a couple of decent quotes already, but to make an offer if he wants to. Still haven't heard back from him.

 

So far, Mike is the guy who is earning my business, and he's done it by simply giving me an awesome deal and paying attention to exactly what I want. I don't understand why is it so difficult for these other guys to just write up some decent pricing from the start. They must know that people shop around.

 

The pain I'm dreading most is selling the Prius. I'm bummed to think that I might have to dig a little deeper into my own pockets if I can't get the price I thought I might get for it. But, oh well, such is life. Hope I get to drive a hybrid soon so I can get my order in, since I can't be without a car for very long. Oh, the pain... but it's a good pain

[TurboTi]

Elle, the best thing you can do for your Prius is clean everything up so it looks like a new car. Then research it on Autotrader.com to see what other people are asking for your model in similar condition and miles. Then add $500 or $1000 or so to what you think it's worth, so you can come down if necessary to what the buyer wants to spend. Dealers have to buy tradeins at wholesale so they have a profit when they sell it, but a lot of people don't want to mess with it. For me: max cash on old car: sell it myself. For you?

[DarkeRetribution]

Don't worry..if you're going to trade your car in and have payments and make sacrifices to make those payments you better be getting something worth it in the end and if you set your eyes on the new Fusion for this then you're definitely not making those sacrifices in vain. You're going from one car to a better car and new cars aren't cheap..especially in this economy and with today's prices for convenience..but you're getting the best possible upgrade for your old Prius and a car you can see yourself paying for and enjoying years down the road. Try not to think of the down points so much as the good things this new car will bring you and it will make the transition from selling your old car and buying the new one much easier.

 

I'm not sure if you're eligible for X-Plan on the new fusion purchase? You should be! X-Plan alone should save you anywhere hundreds to well over a thousand on your new vehicle...on top of that the price is non-negotiable so they can't haggle you about it AND they can't add fees on top of your X-Plan price. The most extra they could charge you is $100 for documentation fees..talk about taking the stress OUT of buying a new car.

 

So there are ways to make the purchase much easier so focus on the sell, get as much as you can and then whatever you get on it be glad you were able to sell it high than other people may have sold theirs on Craigslist. When you're sitting in your new car the only thing that will be on your mind is comfort, job, and knowing you really did get a good deal if you own a car like this over all the people who can't make new car purchases or just choose not to.

[lmp180psu]

I feel your pain in some ways. Yesterday I test drove the 1.6 and the base level Hybrid. They could get me a 1.6 exactly as I wanted from a dealer in MD, and gave me what I thought was fair on my trade (KBB good trade in value- i had my printout ready lol). However, I am leaning toward the Hybrid which would have to be ordered of course because of the options i want.

 

The only bad thing about the process was that the salesman couldn't guarantee me a certain amount for my trade now if i ordered since things will change between now and 2-3 months from now when the car comes in. I respect that, however I am worried that if I order the car and i come back to pick it up, they will low ball it, since they have the hybrid and I waited all this time to get it. I am leaning toward ordering on Monday, but i would like some assurance that as long as there are not noticeable changes to the condition of the trade in, i will get the "good" kbb trade $$ based on the new mileage. Is that too much to ask?

[dbmstng]

Get an x plan pin from someone on this site. No negotiating needed.

[elle]

Thanks! I just made a request on the X-plan forum, so we'll see if anyone is able to help. I hope so!

[elle]

 

 

The only bad thing about the process was that the salesman couldn't guarantee me a certain amount for my trade now if i ordered since things will change between now and 2-3 months from now when the car comes in. I respect that, however I am worried that if I order the car and i come back to pick it up, they will low ball it, since they have the hybrid and I waited all this time to get it. I am leaning toward ordering on Monday, but i would like some assurance that as long as there are not noticeable changes to the condition of the trade in, i will get the "good" kbb trade $$ based on the new mileage. Is that too much to ask?

 

I have that worry, too. Right now my Prius has a little over 28K on it. I don't drive too far each day, but in a couple of months I will probably push it over 30K. That's going to affect the value. On the other hand, I can't just sell it now and wait two months without a car. I could carpool with my husband to and from work for a little while, but only having one car between the two of us will get old quickly.

[TurboTi]

Thats why I like having backup vehicles. I sold my Toyota commuter vehicle (I do miss it, it was tricked out way over stock) and I still have my Truck.

[superM]

I have X-Plan, but I was basically offered $500 above invoice (on an Energi) without even negotiating. Try a dealer thats not in a major metropolitan area.

Edited October 21, 2012 by superM

[JSKershaw]

I have X-Plan, but I was basically offered $500 above invoice (on an Energi) without even negotiating. Try a dealer thats not in a major metropolitan area.

 

Do they have pricing available for the Energi now?

[elle]

I was offered a very good deal by one of the local dealers, but my worry is that, come time to sign the paperwork, the hassle will start, anyway. I've had a bad taste in my mouth for car sales for a long time now. Sales people can say anything before the car is available, and they can also say anything once they get you in the door. With the X-plan I understand there's no haggling and nothing hidden.

 

I haven't received any responses to my request, but I hope I do. If not, I'll go with the low quote and pray that the pain is minimal, come time to sign.

[ewf]

Elle, to understand why you're not getting the quantity or quality of responses you're expecting, you need to understand the motivation of the salespeople and the dealerships.

 

Giving you a price via email is often not in their best interest. The reason is simple. Instead of gaining a sale, it could actually lose it for them. They figure you're probably going to take their price and show it to another dealer, playing them against each other, and taking the one with the slightly better price. Of course, that's what you've already done. I'm not judging you; I'm just proving my point. Salespeople are reluctant to give price quotes, especially written, unless they know the prospect is serious about buying.

 

I'm going to guess (but I'm not sure) that Mike is part of the internet sales or fleet sales team. Fleet salespeople are not always compensated in the same way as regular commissioned salespeople. Instead, they might get paid on volume so they don't need to mess around. They just give you a price that should be reasonably good and if you take it fine. If not, they just move on.

 

For a better chance (but not a guarantee) of getting better responses, keep these things in mind:

 

1) No salesperson wants to spend time educating a customer about a car, taking them on test drives, and basically do all the work only to lose the sale to someone else over a few dollars.

 

2) Salespeople want to know as soon as possible how serious you are about buying a car today or in the very near future.

 

3) Commissioned salespeople make money on the profitable sale of a vehicle and other automotive-related products. There is nothing wrong with that. They deserve to make a living just like everyone else. Salespeople as a whole get a bad rap because of a few bad apples.

 

4) The salesperson or "sales counselor" that you talk to at the dealer lot is usually not authorized to give you a binding price. That's why they always need to take the price you've discussed to the sales desk where a manager either okays it, rejects it, or counter offers.

 

So the key here is to play a little psychology. You need to tell them all the things they want to hear but at the same time not come across as a pushover. Once you do that, they'll be on your side. So the next time you ask for a price quote:

 

1) Tell them you're serious about buying a car in the very near future. When they know you're serious, they'll give you more of their time. Let them know the better the price, the nearer in the future it might be. Let them know that you might even come in and pick it up today if the price is good enough. No one wants to work hard hammering out a price when there is no chance that you're going to buy the car anyway. Let them know it's not all about the price. Tell them your decision will be based on price and service. Say that you would pay $100 more for a car if you knew that dealership/salesperson was really going to go the extra mile for you.

 

2) Let them know you want to make it a win-win situation: They get to make a little bit of money and you get a great deal. The benefit for them is even though they might not make quite as much on commission as they would like, remind them that you've done all your research already so they don't really have to do too much work. They get to make some commission and move right on to the next customer. You can use this logic to get them to try harder to convince the sales desk to take the deal.

 

 

See if these suggestions help. The dealerships that still don't respond favorably don't deserve your business.

[akirby]

If you're not going to use X plan I found the best approach is to call the dealer and ask for the new car sales MANAGER. Not a salesperson. Tell them exactly the vehicle you want (model, options, colors, etc.) and then ask them how much above or below invoice they want for it and how much is the doc fee. Any good sales mgr will know that figure right off the top of their head and will tell you immediately if they're being honest. And if they won't tell you then you don't want to do business with them.

 

When I bought the 93 explorer I did that and the first dealer wouldn't give me a price. The second one said $800 over invoice without batting an eye. I asked if he could do $500 and he said sure on a 2 door or an Eddie Bauer or a 4WD but the 2wd 4 door XLTs were flying out the door at that time. The next dealer said $500 over, no problem. Turns out they were actually getting the vehicle from the dealer who wanted $800. The deal fell through but they found another one at the same price. I'll never forget that salesman's name - Rocky Beretta.

[elle]

Morning all! Thanks for all the suggestions. I used to be in commissioned sales so I am very familiar with how a salesperson thinks, which is why I laid out everything I want and told them from the start that I was very interested. My thought is that it is going to take a lot less of a saleman's time to just write up the best quote he/she can offer and send to to me, just like akirby said. EWF, you are right that Mike is the dealiership's "internet sales guy" and I was just contacted yesterday by another dealership's fleet sales manager.

 

I do understand that they don't want to waste time with a customer who is going to buy from someone else. I was in musical equipment sales and it used to annoy me to no end when I'd spend a couple of hours showing a customer everything they wanted to know about the latest and greatest studio mixing console only to have them call me the next day asking me to beat a price from the local box dealer, but that's the nature of the business. So with this purchase I did all my research up front, learned all I could about the car and made one test drive, not of the model I wanted, being up front to that salesman that he was not going to sell a car that day and that I was still making a decision about which car to buy. He graciously took me for a test drive, but was not aggressively working to sell me because he knew that was not going to sell that day.

 

Now I am waiting for the hybrid, to test drive it. That dealership is the only one nearby that has one on the lot, but I am not going to go there to drive it. I am waiting for Mike to write and tell me that they have one I can drive and will work with him.

 

However, I did find someone who may be able to give me an X-plan PIN. Mike's sales manager got in touch with me to follow-up and I told him I may get one and he said, no problem, they would be glad to order under X-plan if need be. He mentioned that the salesperson gets a spiff from Ford for those saies, which makes me happy, because that means Mike may be better compensated for that sale than if he sells it to me for the original quoted price.

 

I also have a friend who contacted me about my Prius, and may be interested in buying it. So I think the stars are all aligning for this to happen... now I am eagerly awaiting the hybrid test drive and, assuming my original problems with the first test drive don't crop up again, I am ready to place my order.

Edited October 23, 2012 by elle

[akirby]

Actually the dealership gets the spiff check. What they do with it is up to the dealership.

[elle]

Yup, you are right. Where I worked they always gave them to the salespeople, which is the honorable thing to do. I can only hope that they'd do the same thing for Mike, but I guess that isn't up to me.

[akirby]

Yup, you are right. Where I worked they always gave them to the salespeople, which is the honorable thing to do. I can only hope that they'd do the same thing for Mike, but I guess that isn't up to me.

 

My dealer gives their employees the D plan spiff check, making it cheaper than A plan.

[ewf]

I was a commissioned salesperson in a previous life too. LOL! Consumer electronics for me. Vendor spiffs went directly to our paychecks in my case.

 

I agree with akirby on dealing with a sales manager especially if you know exactly what you're looking for. As for my most recent purchasing experience, I was able to negotiate $6,000 off of a 2009 Audi A3. $2,000 of it was from factory marketing support. Other factors that worked in my favor included the fact that it was near the end of the 2009 model year, that I wasn't deadset about color and some other features, and most importantly I dealt with a sales manager that was no nonsense but helpful. I ended up emailing him and from his very first response he gave me the option of 1) any 2010 on the lot for $200 over invoice or 2) negotiating for one of the 2009s with the $2,000 in marketing support. Within 2 or 3 more emails, we were able to agree on an additional $4,000 off which translated to a bit less than $4,000 below invoice. All the negotiation was done via email and all I had to do was spend an hour at the dealership test driving the car (since I hadn't driven that specific car yet) and signing the paperwork. One of the most important things that happened was that I let him know when I gave him my final offer that if he gave me that price, I would be in later that evening to pick it up.

 

Another great way to get a deal is to get the car that's in the ad. There was a time that these cars sold really quickly but that's not necessarily the case anymore. The disadvantage of this, of course, is that you don't really have much of a choice in color, equipment level, etc. The upside is that you can sometimes get a car with more equipment than you really wanted at an even lower price.

 

In regards to your comment about having a bad taste in your mouth about car sales, you shouldn't feel that way at all. It's pretty obvious you do your research. If anything, armed with the info that you have, you should actually relish going to the dealership. The key is remembering that you ultimately have the greatest power - you don't have to buy if you don't want or if you feel uncomfortable. And if you don't like the person you're dealing with, you can find someone else. Car buying can be fun especially when you show them that you've done your homework and that they're going to have a hard time putting one over on you. It really changes the way the salesperson treats you when that happens. If you can, make sure you go to the dealership with a level-headed friend or family member. They can help you keep a balanced approach and deflect any pressure the salespeople might try to put on you.

 

Good luck to you in your search!

Edited October 23, 2012 by ewf

[elle]

LOL, well, the last time we went in armed with information from Consumer Reports, and my husband wanted to do most of the negotiating. It wasn't horrible, just took hours of my life that I will never get back because it was all done in the evening at the dealership, and they still felt like they had to haggle with me for some reason, even though I knew exactly what I should be paying for the car. I actually almost walked out twice during that process.

 

This has been far less painful so far; pretty much doing it exactly as you said, through e-mail. I contacted the sales manager today with a few final follow-up questions and he promptly responded. All his responses were fine; he wants me to test drive the car I order before he will sell it to me and assured me that they will fix any loose weatherstripping should I have window noise, but that I will need to be satisfied with the car before he will feel comfortable finishing up the deal. I appreciate that, and feel like I am ready to place my order. Hopefully I will hear back from him sometime soon and get my order in.

[ewf]

Walking out, or the threat of doing so is one of the biggest weapons you have. When they really want to get a deal done it's kinda funny how quickly they try to get you back in. Use the threat strategically. Like when things get tense, tell them you're going to grab lunch or dinner to think about it and that you'll be back. Or in your previous example just say you'll be back the next day or you're going somewhere else. You know as a former commissioned salesperson that it's not a good idea to see a customer leave saying they'll be back because there's no guarantee they will come back. They'll try to get you to stay but don't fall for it. Leaving accomplishes a few things:

 

1) It gets you out of a tense and pressured situation. If you stay on the premises some of the pressure is still there so it's best to go somewhere else.

 

2) It tells the salesperson and the sales managers that YOU are absolutely in control of this transaction. I leave when I say I'm going to leave and I come back or stay only if and when I want to. If you want me to stay you'd better make this worth my while. It takes commissioned salespeople out of their comfort zone and brings the balance of power back to you.

 

3) If things aren't really going your way and you stay at the dealership, emotionally a lot of times, you just feel like you want to get the deal done and might compromise in an area you normally wouldn't. Getting away helps you think about things rationally again.

Edited October 24, 2012 by ewf

[lmp180psu]

I went through the "joys" of negotiation earlier last night at the 2ne dealer I visited. I test drove. A 1.6 with the Appearance package to get a feel for the ride/noise/handling with the 18" tires. The ride was very comparable to the cars with the 17" tires i drove last Friday. Noise levels were a bit higher which wasn't a big deal but it was louder than my TL. The handling was amazing. I took one off ramp faster than i could with my TL and it felt very stable and even. I was very pleased.

 

To the negotiation part. The salesman was very old school so it took a little while to get the idea that all I wanted was a trade-in value since I had x-plan, and if the trade-in wasn't fair to me there wouldnt be a deal (i would be ordering a Hybrid).

 

At first they were only "showing" $8000 (kbb good condition value is $9770). I was thinking no way I would get a deal done with that starting point. I told the salesman that pretty much and showed him my kbb research and told him the other dealer would give me $9700. Now that number was if I bought a 1.6 they could get in by trade, and they wouldnt guarantee a trade in value if i ordered and signed 2-3 months from now. So, the salesman went back to the trade in guy, and the trade in guy came over to talk to me and gave a schpeel about the market blah blah, and was saying he could do $9000. I stuck to the $9700 and we talked about the nonguarantee value from the other dealer. He eventually asked me what would get me to agree to a deal. I told him a guaranteed $9400 when i pick up my car in 2-3 months. He called his auction/used car contact and came back and shook my hand. We had a deal! The guaranteed value was a big deal to me for peace of mind so i don't have to worry about my mileage the next couple of months. He acknowledged a couple extra scratches are inevitable and won't affect anything. I felt comfortable they would keep their word on that.

 

Now i still have to come back on Thursday and confirm and submit the order since the guy who submits the order was not in then (it was 8 pm by the time this was done), but I am very pleased that by Thursday night I should be starting the countdown until I will be the owner of a Ruby red Fusion Hybrid

[marjen]

So for a trade in, which book do most dealers user?? It seems whichever one I do research with, they pull out some other book that has a lower value. Just want to make sure I am prepared.

[akirby]

So for a trade in, which book do most dealers user?? It seems whichever one I do research with, they pull out some other book that has a lower value. Just want to make sure I am prepared.

 

Dealers use black book - not available to the general public. It is updated frequently and is more specific to the local market.

[chuckokie36]

I had the experience also of the dealer saying no dealer uses KBB anymore they were using NADA used car values, Intelliprice , bank loan info and some national auction data which shows how much cars have sold for at auction in the last 90 days. all these places show a lower value than KBB!

[lmp180psu]

I certainly understand using auction data, and comparing the value to what has sold in the local market, but I don't understand what I owe on my loan should have anything to do with it. The salesman I negotiated with last night asked me multiple time what my payoff was in the process of figuring out my trade-in value. I knew what it was (around $4400), but I wasn't going to let him know since the value of my car should be based on the car itself. Just because I have equity in it (around $5000), shouldn't affect the trade-in value they give me. I eventually told them what my monthly payment was so they could estimate, but since I have my financing set up already that shouldn't matter either. I am ordering a car so that figure won't come into play until delivery 2-3 months from now. I signed off allowing them to get the payoff amount for when I submit my order and sign paperwork tomorrow, but asking for a payoff during trade-in appraisal seems unnecessary.

 

Edit: We eventually came to an agreement after a bit of back and forth. They originally offered $8000. KBB "good" value is $9770 currently. They then offered $9000, and I told them I would have to think about it. I told them $9400 would seal the deal and they agreed after the trade-in manager called his auction/used car contact. I was satisfied since they agreed to the value even with 2-3 months of additional mileage (as long as there isn't major dents and scratches when I take delivery, which makes sense).

Edited October 24, 2012 by lmp180psu