blockisle9 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I wanted to update my previous topic on my Escape dying last Saterday. I got a call telling me the car was all set and the cost would be$49.25 plus tax. I thought hmm that's odd, must be confused with some one else. When I got there they said there was a charge because they could not duplicate the problem therefore ford would not pay for it and I had to! They still claim the vehical was started with the remote and not released. I argued for ½ an hour and kept telling them that was impossible and to show me with the car how I would be able to do???? They gave me the paperwork with a list of about 50 codes pulled from the computer and a Oasis message. I even argued how could ford not pay a claim on a $37,000.00 when there own on board computor triggered 50 events and a oasis message?? The would not budge, so I payed so I could get my car back. I was really upset, and I usually never let shit bother me. I called my sales man to vent to him and he got the head service manager to call me, he told me pretty much the same thing, except he did give me my money back. Sorry for the long post, I tried to keep it short, but I couldn't. I even left stuff out. Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I don't know why you needed to start a new topic for this update. Were all the 50 codes indicating problems? Is the reason you argued with the dealership to get your money back or that they didn't find a problem? It sounds like they did every thing they could to resolve the issue, if they can't find a problem by scanning the computer, you may have to admit it could have been user error. Good dealerships do everything they can to resolve customers issues. It's not like the old days where a guy could listen to the engine and figure out what's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escapism Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Please post the codes. All 50 of them. I want to do some research. Edited February 1, 2013 by Escapism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) could have been user error. If the system would allow a user error such as what occurred, then the system has fatal flaws in it. Starting with the remote and allowing the vehicle to be driven even a foot or two shouldn't happen. Yet this vehicle managed to move quiet far. far enough to get into traffic. If accidentally activating the remote while moving would trigger that response, again it's flawed. 50 codes based on one operator error? It sounds like the dealer doesn't have a clue and is simply blowing off the owner as the "operator error" that claim is simply too easy to preform although I tend to doubt that explanation. sounds like the same excuses used over at the Harley dealer shop. they could not duplicate the problem How can they claim "operator error" when they can't duplicate the event? Edited February 1, 2013 by rscalzo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 There is no way this vehicle could be driven in remote start mode. It won't let you shift out of gear, none of the controls work (wipers, turn signals, gauges), MFT is not lit up, and it says "remote start mode" in the IP display over the top of everything. It's crap you were treated this way and you should call Ford directly with your legitimate complaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazzel Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 How funny that the Dealer is sure its the remote start sequence but is unable to duplicate the problem. It Seems like the techs are just scratching their heads but "lets really piss the customer off and charge him anyway". I am glad you got your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars01 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'm sure you already know this, but keep in mind all dealers are different. Some have good service shops and some are terrible. No excuse for your treatment no matter the issue. If you have other Ford dealers in your area you may want to try out their service shops. You don't have to take it for service where you bought it, they have to honor the ford warranty and often times are very glad to take your service from a competitive dealer in their area. I know this isn't always an option to have multiple dealers around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockisle9 Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I wasn't really mad at the service advisor, I'm sure he was just following policy. I was a little annoyed being charged for something that was clearly a malfunction. (In my opinion) I understand sometimes things happen that are totally out of the norm and I'm sure they tried there best to find out what it was. It sounds like a bigger issue with Ford. If there is some kind of issue with the dealers getting paid by Ford, that needs to be addressed. Anyway, here are the codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Are some of those codes related to the attempts to restart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlucarelli Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Your experience does not surprise me. You can call Ford, but from my experience they won't care. My experiences with Ford are abysmal - so much so, that I will not buy a Ford product again. Ever. The Escape Platinums are 37K? Really? That's a lot of money. I have heard of a lot of issues with newer Ford vehicles. Electronics and software, mostly. Seems to me the troubles started when Ford integrated Microsoft's stuff into MySync. (I was astounded - ASTOUNDED! to learn that the 1.6 EchoBoost fire issue was a result of a "software glitch".) The good news is that it only needs to happen two more times before you can invoke the auto Lemon Law and get your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringfellow Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Your experience does not surprise me. You can call Ford, but from my experience they won't care. My experiences with Ford are abysmal - so much so, that I will not buy a Ford product again. Ever. The Escape Platinums are 37K? Really? That's a lot of money. I have heard of a lot of issues with newer Ford vehicles. Electronics and software, mostly. Seems to me the troubles started when Ford integrated Microsoft's stuff into MySync. (I was astounded - ASTOUNDED! to learn that the 1.6 EchoBoost fire issue was a result of a "software glitch".) The good news is that it only needs to happen two more times before you can invoke the auto Lemon Law and get your money back. Do you really think any other car company really cars when you call? Nope! They are ALL the same. I have experienced this with Mazda and Subaru. Call, tell them your issues, and move on. Look at the tons of Toyota recalls....one just a few days ago for wiper issues on Lexus' and airbag issues with mid 2000 corollas! They could care less for the average consumer. As for the software fix that addressed the overheating issue in the 1.6 EB engines.....get use to it. Now a days the issues are usually associated with electronics and associated software but the issues end up being easier to identify and fix. Face it, cars are run by computers now. The days of mechanical linkages and cables are over! As for MFT and Sync, consumers want the extra bells and whistles and as a result there will be move software related issues with these features. I would bet a lot of the "issues" are associated with user error. If you can't play your music on your iPhone or the nav directions are wrong, people will complain. Do theses issues affect reliability ratings, yes, but they don't represent the true reliability of a car. After market electronics are just as bad!! My last car (2011 Subaru) had a high-end aftermarket nav and it was one huge bugfest!!!! I wish blockisle6 the best of luck with his car and getting the issue identified and fixed. Maybe another dealer may be in order if the issue occurs again. A car company is only as good as its dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I would bet a lot of the "issues" are associated with user error That's a total cop out. The problems with the MTF system are well documented and issues known to be bugs in the system, Under your theory, consumers should not buy anything beyond the lowest level available to avoid the electronics. Having a vehicle that simply stops at random times should be an acceptable risk. Great marketing there. While it most likely is an isolated incident, the dealers reaction is a joke. Fortunatly my dealer is a lot better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Do you really think any other car company really cars when you call? Nope! They are ALL the same. I have experienced this with Mazda and Subaru. Call, tell them your issues, and move on. Look at the tons of Toyota recalls....one just a few days ago for wiper issues on Lexus' and airbag issues with mid 2000 corollas! They could care less for the average consumer. As for the software fix that addressed the overheating issue in the 1.6 EB engines.....get use to it. Now a days the issues are usually associated with electronics and associated software but the issues end up being easier to identify and fix. Face it, cars are run by computers now. The days of mechanical linkages and cables are over! As for MFT and Sync, consumers want the extra bells and whistles and as a result there will be move software related issues with these features. I would bet a lot of the "issues" are associated with user error. If you can't play your music on your iPhone or the nav directions are wrong, people will complain. Do theses issues affect reliability ratings, yes, but they don't represent the true reliability of a car. After market electronics are just as bad!! My last car (2011 Subaru) had a high-end aftermarket nav and it was one huge bugfest!!!! I wish blockisle6 the best of luck with his car and getting the issue identified and fixed. Maybe another dealer may be in order if the issue occurs again. A car company is only as good as its dealers. What a terrible attitude here. So just because another company doesn't give a damn means Ford shouldn't either? What a crappy world we live in where we should expect poor service and no resolution on a 30K+ vehicle. Give me a break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 snip..... A car company is only as good as its dealers. This is pure BS too.....the dealers need support from Ford since as you stated "it's all software". Until technicians become computer programmers they can only resolve something when Ford gives them the tools to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) I wasn't really mad at the service advisor, I'm sure he was just following policy. I was a little annoyed being charged for something that was clearly a malfunction. (In my opinion) I understand sometimes things happen that are totally out of the norm and I'm sure they tried there best to find out what it was.It sounds like a bigger issue with Ford. If there is some kind of issue with the dealers getting paid by Ford, that needs to be addressed. Anyway, here are the codes. There are only 3 DTC's there. All the other garbage is what they put in OASIS as symptom codes. P0103 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit High Input P025A Generic DTC: Fuel Pump Module Control Circuit/Open U0109 Lost Communication With Fuel Pump Control Module Sounds like something went haywire on a module or a computer issue. They just fed you a bunch of BS with the "remote start" theory. Edited February 1, 2013 by svtenthusiast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringfellow Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) This is pure BS too.....the dealers need support from Ford since as you stated "it's all software". Until technicians become computer programmers they can only resolve something when Ford gives them the tools to do so. You need well trained technicians who can diagnose issues and relay the information to Ford. Technicians and/or dealers who don't care or are poorly trained cant pass on key information to Ford. Dealers are the interface between a consumer and Ford engineers. Ford engineers can only give technicians the tools they need only after the can relay the problem and associated information. You could have a team of Ford engineers at a corporate location but if the technicians can't relay the issues, engineers cannot solve the problem and give them tools to fix the issue. If you have a serious issue with your car, who is your first contact? The dealer and associated technicians. If your technician can't reproduce the issue or isn't experienced enough to figure out the problem, your issue will most like not go any further. That is my point!! A good dealer/technician will attempt to identify the issue, pass information to afore and engage with field engineers to further investigate the issue. Edited February 2, 2013 by Stringfellow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockisle9 Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 This was also listed in the paper work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScapeTom Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Interesting, Blockisle. I'm going to do a remote start test tomorrow morning, partly to see how the climate control reacts, but I'll keep track of what I do when I start driving also. I realize that you didn't use your remote start in this situation, but I am curious based on the service message you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtenthusiast Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) This was also listed in the paper work. Doesn't matter....there is no link to this and what has happened to you. There is NO WAY to drive the vehicle in remote start mode. No gauges, no shift out of park, no movement of vehicle. If it did let you do this, that is still a problem. It should not give you any ability to drive the vehicle in remote start mode. It's almost like this document is covering their butt for something that may be malfunctioning with the remote start system, possibly allowing you to drive the vehicle. But you said you never remote started the vehicle. Seems like something is definetly amiss here...... Edited February 2, 2013 by svtenthusiast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars01 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This thread is kind of funny to me. I have been around awhile and have seen lots of changes in auto evolution. I remember when we started getting electric windows and locks. Electronic ignition then other electronic parts and starting to integrate computers. People had all kinds of problems with these things and lots of complaints discussions just like we are having now about software glitches. Bottom line is that cars are like space ships now compared to the all mechanical days. There have been struggles with the newer technologies for sure and I've seen this over and over like some of the stuff we're seeing again now. Cars were really easy to work on but you sure better like working on them cause that is what was required to keep them going. Everybody HAD to do it or have a good friend to do it. Sure there are issues and probably always will be, not making excuses for them, just reporting history. Now except for the few that will always like to work on cars, people want to just drive them and without issues and I can tell you compared to previous generations of autos, they now do perform like that for most people. I used to live in my garage, with lots of auto tools under my car, now I park my car in my woodworking shop and sure we have "bugs" now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest abjb Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 There are only 3 DTC's there. All the other garbage is what they put in OASIS as symptom codes. P0103 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit High Input P025A Generic DTC: Fuel Pump Module Control Circuit/Open U0109 Lost Communication With Fuel Pump Control Module Sounds like something went haywire on a module or a computer issue. They just fed you a bunch of BS with the "remote start" theory. Question for the online techs. 50 codes (3 real codes)? Wouldn't this be a red flag? Every time I check my 08 MKX and 11 F53 I get few or no codes. Suggestions for blockisle9. When you duplicate the trouble. Make sure the outside temp. is close to the temp. at the time your fuel pump quit pumping. Find a safe place to make a left turn with a dip like the parking lot where the connector to the " Fuel Pump Module Control" came loose. Print the post by svtenthusiast and take it to your dealer. ab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 So just because another company doesn't give a damn means Ford shouldn't either? Poor dealer attitude isn't the same as "Ford not caring". They know what another extensive problem would do to their reputation as well as that of the vehicle. So far it seems to be a isolated issue. The problem is the dealer simply wants to brush off the customer by their lack of concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elf911 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 OP, block, good job speaking up and getting your money back you deserve it on a brand new vehicle! To the second poster, transitman, really?!? That whole post is a mess.....no new car owner should have dealt with what the OP dealt with and then be CHARGED because some idiot can't duplicate it. He could have been killed from an accident and because service can't duplicate it they charge him? Obviously if there is a DTC then something is happening and it should be fixed ASAP and not have the owner to incur a bill. That bill could have been from the hospital after he was t-boned because his new car died for no reason. Aside from that rant (I'm sorry) OP glad your ok and that the car is ok. I too was confused when you could hit the brake pedal and not turn off the car in remote start mode. Have never seen this in any other remote start system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockisle9 Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 As of now, I do not use the remote start. I don't want that happen again. I'm not sure what steps to do when going to drive mode. Just the start button, then brake to shift to drive? Brake and start button then shift to drive? Hitting the button on the fob to turn it off, then restart? I just don't want to get stuck in a bad spot again. Lenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elf911 Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I use mine and all I do is hop in. Screen says remote start mode. I put foot to brake pedal push start button gauges and MFD come to life. I shift to D and go! Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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