Ford to give MyFord Touch more buttons, knobs

[NickF1011]

Certainly there's still room for improvement. But what about cars can't that be said about? But just like most of the other things about cars that have gotten better, this will too in time.

[MSPFusion]

If you're happy with what you have, I think that's great. I like MFT. I love my car. I'd just get rid of the touchpad and go with real buttons. I'm glad Ford is moving in that direction.

 

Sure, it's not hard to figure out how to use the controls on MFT. The touchpad below the Nav screen on the TI Fusions is intuitive. But this isn't setting a very high standard. As an example, how long do you have to take your eyes off the road to activate your rear window defroster? With a button, you learn where it is and you can find it by feel, taking at most a split second glance at the panel. With the touchpad, you really have to look at the thing too see exactly which point you have to touch, you touch it and with no tactile feedback you have to keep looking at it to see if it is on. It takes your eyes off the road longer. Or you can argue with Thelma(my name for MFT) and get her to do it after a couple of tries.

 

The Ipad is a great device. I love using mine. But as a UI in a car? No tactile feedback, too distracting. Bob Lutz just wrote a piece about this and I agree with his point of view.

 

It's similar to what the aircraft industry experienced. They went to digital readouts and fewer mechanical switches and buttons. Now my understanding is that they have reversed course. Readouts are again analog-style. Mechanical buttons, knobs and switches are back. The tactile response and the speed with which an analog-style readout registers with a person is simply greater.

[theoldwizard]

Define problem?

 

 

MFT had a negative impact on Ford's overall JD Powers rating ... AGAIN !

 

That's a problem !

[mettech]

My question to Ford:

 

Why is it easier to get the entertainment or info I want from my Samsung SIII than from my Fusion Sync system?

 

On my phone, I can select music I want faster.

 

On my phone, I can select my Navigation multiple times faster and see a street view of the destination.

 

On my phone, I can make a call faster.. and with more accuracy.

 

I can replace my phone with new hardware and software at a price of <$200.

 

New maps for the Sync Nav cost about the same that I spend on a new phone,,,

 

 

The best product is in my pocket.. Ford.. Stop spending millions of $ on MFT/Sync/MLT when the better mousetrap is updated every year.!!

 

FOR FREE!!! (at least a lower price)

[NickF1011]

Sure, it's not hard to figure out how to use the controls on MFT. The touchpad below the Nav screen on the TI Fusions is intuitive. But this isn't setting a very high standard. As an example, how long do you have to take your eyes off the road to activate your rear window defroster? With a button, you learn where it is and you can find it by feel, taking at most a split second glance at the panel. With the touchpad, you really have to look at the thing too see exactly which point you have to touch, you touch it and with no tactile feedback you have to keep looking at it to see if it is on. It takes your eyes off the road longer. Or you can argue with Thelma(my name for MFT) and get her to do it after a couple of tries.

It took awhile, but I am at least finally used to where the front and rear defroster buttons are. And you can tell when you've hit it if you have the button sounds enabled (I think you can turn them off??). It'll give you a little blurp when it receives an input. I would still like some sort of ridge or more recognizable identifier of some sort, but it's not completely awful. Now, the less used ones like the re-circulation button might be a tad more difficult to locate on the fly.

 

And not sure if anyone else has noticed this on the Edge, but if you're in the rear seat, the indicator lights on the Sony radio are REALLY bright when you look at them head on. :fear:

Edited June 20, 2013 by NickF1011

[rico567]

My question to Ford:

 

Why is it easier to get the entertainment or info I want from my Samsung SIII than from my Fusion Sync system?

 

On my phone, I can select music I want faster.

 

On my phone, I can select my Navigation multiple times faster and see a street view of the destination.

 

On my phone, I can make a call faster.. and with more accuracy.

 

I can replace my phone with new hardware and software at a price of <$200.

 

New maps for the Sync Nav cost about the same that I spend on a new phone,,,

 

 

The best product is in my pocket.. Ford.. Stop spending millions of $ on MFT/Sync/MLT when the better mousetrap is updated every year.!!

 

FOR FREE!!! (at least a lower price)

 

Well.....Ford is spending $ on it, we're spending more $ on it. The answer is profit. Follow the money. Always.

 

That being said, what was said about smartphones is correct- Why should I pay for all that stuff that is stuck permanently in the car (hardware cannot be upgraded for the life of the car), where I can get a new phone that's going to have everything I need or want in the way of nav, communications, music, etc., and have a new one every couple years for a nominal price?

[Bailey151]

MFT had a negative impact on Ford's overall JD Powers rating ... AGAIN !

 

That's a problem !

Not to say it's not an issue but I did laugh @ the whole "JD Powers" thing. Funny as hell given it's called a quality rating........what has design got to do with it? Ford wasn't alone in getting dinged - Lexus took some hits also (for the same, design choices). Porsche & GM at the top? Yeah, okay, sure

 

Given the state of the technology it's part MFT & part the dinosaurs that can't adapt. Take the avg mind & ask it to deal with all the functions available? Example - know someone who refuses to use the auto climate in their car. It goes like this ......turn it on, set the temp............but.........instead of changing the temp to adjust the comfort/fan speed they use the fan control.........which drops it OUT of auto Doesn't matter what Ford does, ain't going to help they ain't ever going to adapt.

 

What Ford should do is use TopGear as the design team..........they've already covered this, perfect for Americans. Can't find the entire episode (Season 19, episode 5) but this give you the idea -

 

 

My question to Ford:

 

Why is it easier to get the entertainment or info I want from my Samsung SIII than from my Fusion Sync system?

 

On my phone, I can select music I want faster.

 

On my phone, I can select my Navigation multiple times faster and see a street view of the destination.

 

On my phone, I can make a call faster.. and with more accuracy.

 

I can replace my phone with new hardware and software at a price of <$200.

 

New maps for the Sync Nav cost about the same that I spend on a new phone,,,

 

 

The best product is in my pocket.. Ford.. Stop spending millions of $ on MFT/Sync/MLT when the better mousetrap is updated every year.!!

 

FOR FREE!!! (at least a lower price)

I'll not argue the whole nav/infotainment system isn't a bit over priced............but you ain't getting the phone for under $200. That's what may come out of your pocket at the time but it ain't the true cost.

 

The maps will never offer the "street view", not happening................well unless they start having a fleet of cars drive around like google. Best one could hope for would be sat views & that would get you what? Why is nav so expensive in a car? No clue, it's basically a small tablet with limited software - should be a couple hundred option.

 

Could start with should be a phone jammer & not call maker in a car..............but............the whole point is NOT using your hands. And the Ford version is better than most. Easy enough to say "call John on cell" or "dial 555-555-1212" - try that in other cars, you end up with "call name"...."cell".....then it dials.

 

Room for improvement? Certainly, but it ain't ever going to beat a purpose built device like a phone soon. While maybe not the best I do find it acceptable but then the controls I use most when driving are the wheel, gas, and brake. There are even features I like - the nav on the right drivers screen is great, right where it should be = don't have to look to the side to see it.

 

And don't forget we also got some excellent options like adaptive cruise - best thing since sliced bread.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Bailey151

[Mystiq]

I was told repeatedly by people (who don't have it) that Sync is horrible. It's not horrible but I think it is pretty bad. Some of the screens are pretty complicated (for example, the climate screen) and navigating the audio screens is a mess, mostly due to the delay for a button's press to affect the screen (push down arrow on the Sources, wait 3 seconds). Response time makes it feel horrible to use. They need to change that.

 

People are inevitably going to use the thing while they're driving -- I do -- and you might as well organize it to account for that. They put a lot of stuff on the screens at one time (this makes it look cluttered and difficult to use) and the stuff that isn't on screen is buried in menus (this makes it feel like it's complicated and hard to find stuff). Yeah, I did just contradict myself. Not everything needs to be on the touch screen. There's something to be said for having tactile feedback. I do not like the buttons as they are because I can't simply feel for a button and push it; I have to get a direct hit or I'm going to do something I don't want to do. The Source Prev/Next buttons below MFT are basically useless because it's one source at a time, and it cycles through all 3 variants before moving onto the next one. They were smart to put the defroster and climate control as buttons because those are super common functions you do not want to be dicking around with a touch screen to find. The rest need to be re-thought. I also wish they would have just put the damned seat heaters as a button like every other car instead of splashing it all over MFT.

 

For having a touch interface, it looks like it was designed without one in mind. Windows Phone was Microsoft's only experience with touch devices before Windows 8 and you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks they are well-designed. MFT/Sync was obviously created before Windows 8 was an inkling in Microsoft's eye, when they really researched touch input and design. Only the interface for receivers comes to mind as being worse than MFT/Sync. The only screen that I think is designed well is the home screen. It's simple, things are spread out and shows all it needs to show: the common functions of all the other areas. Sync tries to do a lot and I don't think it ends up doing anything well. And to boot, it's just not acceptable to me that there are bugs. The WiFi keyboard and the Surround DSP option. Seriously? (Not to mention the choice of Sirius and it's terrible sound quality. Siriusly?)

 

Partner with someone who has a proven track record in this space and use them. Microsoft's touch devices are awful, and prior to Windows (Phone) 8, they were fucking awful. I like the car. I do not like MFT. My complaints about the car mostly stem from MFT/Sync. Ford makes good cars but I don't have much faith in them where MFT is concerned. It's been around since 2007 and this is all they have to show for it?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyFord_Touch#Criticism

You know it's serious when a consumer group recommends people not to buy a product with MFT. I've only ever had the 2012 update and I can only fathom how bad it used to be.

 

[Edit]

I should mention I keep reading now that they plan another update this summer. I am intrigued.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Mystiq

[HenryVIII]

My question to Ford:

 

Why is it easier to get the entertainment or info I want from my Samsung SIII than from my Fusion Sync system?

 

On my phone, I can select music I want faster.

 

On my phone, I can select my Navigation multiple times faster and see a street view of the destination.

 

On my phone, I can make a call faster.. and with more accuracy.

 

I can replace my phone with new hardware and software at a price of <$200.

 

New maps for the Sync Nav cost about the same that I spend on a new phone,,,

 

 

The best product is in my pocket.. Ford.. Stop spending millions of $ on MFT/Sync/MLT when the better mousetrap is updated every year.!!

 

FOR FREE!!! (at least a lower price)

 

 

How much is your phone bill monthly? Average person's monthly smartphone bill is probably what $100/month? Suddenly you're looking at $1200+/year, not including the subsidized purchase for that phone...

Don't forget about that expense because it's rolled into the price of your phone. That's what you pay after all through the phone company's subsidized pricing.

 

Remember folks MFT will get updates, which the car reviewers tend to get short-sighted about. MFT isn't perfect but it does things fairly well when you consider it has to talk to not only your phone but the hardware and software of other phones and their associated apps as well. When you get into software talking to software, talking to software, you're bound to run into issues.

Edited June 22, 2013 by HenryVIII

[mettech]

Mark Phelan: Chevy Spark integrates with smartphones at affordable price point

 

Siri is my co-pilot. The ★★★Chevrolet Spark leveraged my iPhone 4S to make Apple’s virtual assistant my driving buddy and pack the minicar with features that vehicles costing far more can’t match.

The inexpensive and fuel-efficient Spark is the first vehicle to truly integrate a smartphone’s functions so drivers can use them without being dangerously distracted from the road.

I tested a well-equipped manual-transmission Spark 2LT. It stickered at $15,085 and featured 10 air bags; a big touch screen; power windows, mirrors and locks; a good stereo, and the revolutionary Siri Eyes Free system.

Chevrolet developed Siri Eyes Free with Apple to let the driver use Siri safely for phone calls, text messages, Internet services like Pandora and Tunein radio and more.

The system also works with some phones that use the Android operating system. You can see whether your phone is compatible at www.chevrolet.com/mylink.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130620/COL14/306200026/chevrolet-spark-fiat-500-smart-fortwo

[Mystiq]

What would be super awesome is if the phone manufacturers worked with the car manufacturers to create a standardized embedded device interface such that the phone could hook up to your car and replace the standard interface in the car. Let Apple and Android have their own climate app, which interfaces directly with the car's climate control (including heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, etc.). All major smartphones already have navigation, some sort of music app, and it wouldn't be a stretch to let the phone tap into the car's antennas to support satellite and terrestrial radio, as well as use the car's GPS antenna. (Some phones even have FM antennas.)

 

It would solve every last problem with in-car control systems and let consumers pick which one they liked best. Don't like the GPS app that comes with your phone? Download another one. Don't like the default climate control app on your phone? Get another one. It would mean massive coordination among all the companies but I think the benefits outweigh the logistics.

 

Let the companies do what they do best. Ford makes good cars. Microsoft does not make good embedded systems. This could easily create a new market just for a device that can replace your car's standard interface. Swappable car infotaintment systems? Yes, please. Apple and Chevrolet started it.They need to take it all the way and separate the infotainment system from the car because a car's lifetime is way too long for how fast technology moves.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Mystiq

[Bailey151]

What would be super awesome is if the phone manufacturers worked with the car manufacturers to create a standardized embedded device interface such that the phone could hook up to your car and replace the standard interface in the car. Let Apple and Android have their own climate app, which interfaces directly with the car's climate control (including heated/cooled seats, heated steering wheel, etc.). All major smartphones already have navigation, some sort of music app, and it wouldn't be a stretch to let the phone tap into the car's antennas to support satellite and terrestrial radio, as well as use the car's GPS antenna. (Some phones even have FM antennas.)

 

It would solve every last problem with in-car control systems and let consumers pick which one they liked best. Don't like the GPS app that comes with your phone? Download another one. Don't like the default climate control app on your phone? Get another one. It would mean massive coordination among all the companies but I think the benefits outweigh the logistics.

 

Let the companies do what they do best. Ford makes good cars. Microsoft does not make good embedded systems. This could easily create a new market just for a device that can replace your car's standard interface. Swappable car infotaintment systems? Yes, please. Apple and Chevrolet started it.They need to take it all the way and separate the infotainment system from the car because a car's lifetime is way too long for how fast technology moves.

Ain't ever going to happen...........least of the problems is access to the functionality............................nobody, but nobody is stupid enough to allow the easiest device on the planet to hack access to that level of the car. Another issue warranty - Johnny Sclub write his little POS app & it causes problems with the AC system...............Ford should fix it? One thing to cause force closes or phone re-boots another to cause problems in a car. Nope, way too many issues. Work with Andriod, iOS, and Win? Yeah, okay, good luck with that. For one thing that would require google, Apple, an MS to use standard APIs - lmao - Apple? Work with anything not Apple? lmao................sure, okay, that's going to happen.

 

Just a FWIW - you are aware Apple can't write an OS, right? They tried it once, abysmal failure. Nor did the write "Siri"................the don't actually build anything, they buy pieces & assemble them.

 

MS can & does write an OS. It has steadily improved since inception - might be too late for us but I'd wager the next version will be very metro like.

 

Speed? Yep, it's not the fastest but that's the processor.............and...............it's still much faster than many others I've seen. I've seen more than one car where by the time the review camera comes up I'm already down the road. Some as late as last year still have "one screen" - you pick the screen, no nice 4 displays on the home screen. I haven't used it so I have no idea but from the pictures I see exactly one thing more on the GM home screen - Pandora. Pretty much have access to everything else. "Siri"? Yeah, okay, haven't had an issue yet with Ford's system - well aside from remembering that it can pretty much do everything.

 

To a certain extent it's all relevant - I don't like any of the seat heat controls, spent 8 years with a roller design = roll one way & it's hotter, roll the other for lower & off. This button (or screen) pushing sucks. Sadly even the company that had this system went to a button w/ multiple pushes.

 

Main screen? Not terrible. At least I get 4 snapshots - live with a single choice for a while. Climate portion is fine, have auto & the seats = covers most everything. Use the ones down below for temp, defrost, etc. Haven't needed anything else. Entertainment portion is fine, has 6 radio choices (or whatever input) = its enough, can use the wheel to change or voice. Phone area is fine, I would change "do not disturb" to be the default/mandatory when the vehicle is moving. Nav is fine, not even sure why it's there when not using nav (oooh, going north - like I didn't know that).

 

Climate screen - don't use it much with auto climate, seems redundant with the controls on the console. I have looked at it - seems to have everything present.

 

Phone screen - Seems fine I generally only go there to use the address book to set the nav destination, rest is always voice & there's it's so much better than most. Easy enough to say "call Jane on cell" = dial. This is a two or three step process in a lot of cars. Or you can say "call 1-866-999-1212" Again multi step in most. Easy enough to read texts............my phone doesn't support outgoing, ain't Ford's fault.

 

Nav screen - Seems okay, generally watch the damn road & listen, not terribly interested in watching the road go by. I do like the nav on the left drivers screen w/ a simple "okay" to repeat. I do like "set destination 132 West End Ave, Winchester VA" for voice. Maps for cars are almost always out of date - just the way it is.

 

Entertainment screen - shows most of the stuff but with so many input options I'm not even sure where to begin. Pretty much every single entertainment screen I've seen looks cluttered...........the more options available the more busy it's going to get. It's that or have more sub-menus - that's not ideal.

 

Is it like a tablet or phone? Nope, but then I don't expect it to be - it's simply there to control vehicle functions & not as an entertainment device. I mean you're supposed to be driving a damn car not being playing angry birds at lights. Great? Maybe not but most are worse.

[NickF1011]

They put a lot of stuff on the screens at one time (this makes it look cluttered and difficult to use) and the stuff that isn't on screen is buried in menus (this makes it feel like it's complicated and hard to find stuff). Yeah, I did just contradict myself.

Yes, you did.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Mystiq]

Ain't ever going to happen...........least of the problems is access to the functionality............................nobody, but nobody is stupid enough to allow the easiest device on the planet to hack access to that level of the car. Another issue warranty - Johnny Sclub write his little POS app & it causes problems with the AC system...............Ford should fix it? One thing to cause force closes or phone re-boots another to cause problems in a car. Nope, way too many issues. Work with Andriod, iOS, and Win? Yeah, okay, good luck with that. For one thing that would require google, Apple, an MS to use standard APIs - lmao - Apple? Work with anything not Apple? lmao................sure, okay, that's going to happen.

 

Just a FWIW - you are aware Apple can't write an OS, right? They tried it once, abysmal failure. Nor did the write "Siri"................the don't actually build anything, they buy pieces & assemble them.

 

MS can & does write an OS. It has steadily improved since inception - might be too late for us but I'd wager the next version will be very metro like.

 

Speed? Yep, it's not the fastest but that's the processor.............and...............it's still much faster than many others I've seen. I've seen more than one car where by the time the review camera comes up I'm already down the road. Some as late as last year still have "one screen" - you pick the screen, no nice 4 displays on the home screen. I haven't used it so I have no idea but from the pictures I see exactly one thing more on the GM home screen - Pandora. Pretty much have access to everything else. "Siri"? Yeah, okay, haven't had an issue yet with Ford's system - well aside from remembering that it can pretty much do everything.

 

To a certain extent it's all relevant - I don't like any of the seat heat controls, spent 8 years with a roller design = roll one way & it's hotter, roll the other for lower & off. This button (or screen) pushing sucks. Sadly even the company that had this system went to a button w/ multiple pushes.

 

Main screen? Not terrible. At least I get 4 snapshots - live with a single choice for a while. Climate portion is fine, have auto & the seats = covers most everything. Use the ones down below for temp, defrost, etc. Haven't needed anything else. Entertainment portion is fine, has 6 radio choices (or whatever input) = its enough, can use the wheel to change or voice. Phone area is fine, I would change "do not disturb" to be the default/mandatory when the vehicle is moving. Nav is fine, not even sure why it's there when not using nav (oooh, going north - like I didn't know that).

 

Climate screen - don't use it much with auto climate, seems redundant with the controls on the console. I have looked at it - seems to have everything present.

 

Phone screen - Seems fine I generally only go there to use the address book to set the nav destination, rest is always voice & there's it's so much better than most. Easy enough to say "call Jane on cell" = dial. This is a two or three step process in a lot of cars. Or you can say "call 1-866-999-1212" Again multi step in most. Easy enough to read texts............my phone doesn't support outgoing, ain't Ford's fault.

 

Nav screen - Seems okay, generally watch the damn road & listen, not terribly interested in watching the road go by. I do like the nav on the left drivers screen w/ a simple "okay" to repeat. I do like "set destination 132 West End Ave, Winchester VA" for voice. Maps for cars are almost always out of date - just the way it is.

 

Entertainment screen - shows most of the stuff but with so many input options I'm not even sure where to begin. Pretty much every single entertainment screen I've seen looks cluttered...........the more options available the more busy it's going to get. It's that or have more sub-menus - that's not ideal.

 

Is it like a tablet or phone? Nope, but then I don't expect it to be - it's simply there to control vehicle functions & not as an entertainment device. I mean you're supposed to be driving a damn car not being playing angry birds at lights. Great? Maybe not but most are worse.

 

The problems with it aren't my problem. :P Let them figure it out. The application interface to the car could be simple enough where it won't/can't cause problems. Yes, there will be issues, but aren't there issues with any design choice?

 

As to your iOS and Windows Phone comments: this leads me to believe you are a Microsoft fanboy. But are your comments that Apple isn't an OS-maker even relevant? Thousands of companies are using Unix derivatives. What OS do you think consoles such as the PS4 are running? Microsoft is guilty of exactly the same things you point out about Apple. More to the point, thousands of companies made working devices without having made their own OS from scratch (bolded for importance). That said, I think you're simplifying the issue. I only meant that Apple has had many successful years in developing applications for small devices and Microsoft hasn't.

 

In any case, I'm guessing Microsoft has a lot more to do with Sync's design than Ford does. That means Microsoft had a lot of time to redesign Sync under the paradigms used by Windows 8. Instead of releasing something that leveraged what they learned under Windows 8's R&D, they gave us the Dec. 2012 update either because they ignored Windows 8 entirely or because it's just an interim release because the original was so bad. It's an improvement but after reading all I did about Windows 8's design (Microsoft has smart people but the company politics are ruinous), it doesn't look like they read a single design document. That said, I'm very interested in the update supposedly coming this summer.

 

I would bet that the speed of the screen isn't related to the processor (look at the processors in phones) so much as it could simply be the technology used for the touch screen. It's pressure sensitive, whereas the screen in your phone reacts to the fact that your finger disturbs an electric field. Or, the designers like the delay and made it that way on purpose.

 

Nearly every single screen strikes me as overly complicated, especially the ridiculous climate screen, given the design goals of Windows 8: minimalism. The corners idea of Sync may have been the inspiration for the corner stuff in Windows 8 but other than that, just, no. If they find they have to add physical buttons to remove complexity from Sync, I'm fine by that.

 

I just want to know who the hell's idea it was to remove physical buttons for the seat heater because I want to slap them upside the head.

[NickF1011]

In any case, I'm guessing Microsoft has a lot more to do with Sync's design than Ford does. That means Microsoft had a lot of time to redesign Sync under the paradigms used by Windows 8. Instead of releasing something that leveraged what they learned under Windows 8's R&D, they gave us the Dec. 2012 update either because they ignored Windows 8 entirely or because it's just an interim release because the original was so bad.

MyFord Touch and Windows 8 share absolutely nothing in common. To try to apply principles from Windows 8 to make it backwards compatible with what is essentially something written using Windows CE code would be pretty much impossible. Let us also remember that Microsoft was not a lead partner in the original MFT development. The lead software developer was a company called BeSquared, which has since been dismissed by Ford, which is also when Microsoft came on to lead the software development. Rumor is that Ford and Microsoft are currently working on the 2nd generation MFT which IS Windows 8-based, but will likely not be backwards compatible with vehicles currently fitted with the first generation of MFT.

 

Nearly every single screen strikes me as overly complicated, especially the ridiculous climate screen

I spent good seat time in my Edge the other night looking for these "complicated" screens people keep mentioning. What on earth is "complicated" on this screen?

 

I just want to know who the hell's idea it was to remove physical buttons for the seat heater because I want to slap them upside the head.

Would be nice, but really, they are right there on the home screen every time you start your car. Not like you have to hunt for them.

Edited June 26, 2013 by NickF1011

[Bailey151]

..................... Yes, there will be issues, but aren't there issues with any design choice?

 

As to your iOS and Windows Phone comments: this leads me to believe you are a Microsoft fanboy................................

 

In any case, I'm guessing Microsoft has a lot more to do with Sync's design than Ford does.........................................

 

I would bet that the speed of the screen isn't related to the processor (look at the processors in phones) so much as it could simply be the technology used for the touch screen. It's pressure sensitive, whereas the screen in your phone reacts to the fact that your finger disturbs an electric field. Or, the designers like the delay and made it that way on purpose.

 

Nearly every single screen strikes me as overly complicated, especially the ridiculous climate screen....................................................

 

I just want to know who the hell's idea it was to remove physical buttons for the seat heater because I want to slap them upside the head.

Really, that was my point - it's all design choices - you can't please everyone.

 

Nope, sorry not a fanboy - it's an objective view of both companies. Apple is not a developer, they are an assembler - they buy & assemble pieces into a product. Microsoft is a developer, though at times not a very good one. They do however have one excellent trait in that they will keep hammering away until it's right.............which doesn't do us much good.

 

We can't say who has more input - I would guess however the opposite, Ford. I'm assuming they have the "right of refusal". For all we know MS showed them a metro-ish version & they said we'll pass..................it's not like it wasn't available given MS has been refining it on the 360 for quite some time. We'll never know, I can't figure it - seems perfect for a car, tiles with quick access? That's what makes me think it was Ford as it looks like it was designed by a car company & not a software company - if left to a software company I imagine we'd would have a metro style interface.

 

The processor was a guess - it could be intentional to prevent mistakes or it could be the processor......or........ We've gone over the pros & cons of capacitive versus reactive - I can see why Ford chose the latter, makes sense in a car. Phones are a poor example - even fairly old(ish) ones have plenty of power. Mine isn't new & yet it still runs a snapdragon 1.5ghz dual core. Which brings us full circle to - why the hell is nav such an expensive upgrade?

 

No like or dislike on the climate for me - I never go there (went a couple times, no real need to go there again). I use the capacitive "hard" buttons for defrost & back to auto, then set temp................outside of that I have zero need to change anything.

 

Screw hard buttons on the seat heaters.................both physical buttons and screen buttons SUCK! Give me the roller switch, simple roll to desired heat, roll for off = easy. Screw this multiple pushes to get the seats to where I want & then for off.

[phil1336]

You would figure that many of the (core) Demographics of the atypical Lincoln buyers are between 50 and 70? Many, including my damn self are not infatuated with touch screen gadgetry. Perhaps they aught to make two different options available. High Techie and Old School. Until the last of the remainder of the early Baby Boomers finally die off and become Museum artifacts like Dinosaurs, this debate between functionality and high technology wizardry will remain a constant sore spot. In two short decades, you will be free to tweet, twitter, and bluetooth to your hearts desire with no complainers left to comment on their inability to catch on and "get it"! I`m sure the same debate raged during Henry Fords day when the "Horseless Carriage" was replacing the Horse and Carriage. Times change but the love of accepting and embracing new technology by the "ancients" will always continue. For some of us, a MIcrowave Oven simply needs and on and off switch! We don`t need a dozen different power settings, a meat probe thermometer, and pre-sets to "Popcorn", "Defrost","Saute", and a host of other Pre-Set menu selections. Zap it, its reheated, now just open the Door and serve!

[Mystiq]

MyFord Touch and Windows 8 share absolutely nothing in common. To try to apply principles from Windows 8 to make it backwards compatible with what is essentially something written using Windows CE code would be pretty much impossible. Let us also remember that Microsoft was not a lead partner in the original MFT development. The lead software developer was a company called BeSquared, which has since been dismissed by Ford, which is also when Microsoft came on to lead the software development. Rumor is that Ford and Microsoft are currently working on the 2nd generation MFT which IS Windows 8-based, but will likely not be backwards compatible with vehicles currently fitted with the first generation of MFT.

 

 

I spent good seat time in my Edge the other night looking for these "complicated" screens people keep mentioning. What on earth is "complicated" on this screen?

 

 

Would be nice, but really, they are right there on the home screen every time you start your car. Not like you have to hunt for them.

 

I know the two share nothing in common. If they did it would be a good thing, something I rarely say when it comes to Microsoft.

 

It's good to know there's a version coming that takes after Windows 8 but it's somewhat infuriating that it may not work on my car. They know it's bad so am I supposed to just dump my car after 3 years so I can get the upgraded Sync system to support the next version? No, I don't want to splunk down another $35,000 for a damn screen. This is the problem with technology and the expected lifetime of a car: they don't sync (pun intended).

 

As for the complicated screens, some of the screens have a large number of options shown all at once. The climate window has a ridiculous number of buttons. They could have left the bottom 6 out because there are physical buttons. Make physical switches/buttons for the seat heater -- a lot of people ask me what the dead space is where the seat heater buttons usually go because they know I have that option -- and you get rid of two more. There are already buttons for temperature up/down. Get rid of 4 more. I've just gotten rid of 12 buttons and suddenly it looks a lot less like a mess. Someone clearly wanted to have as few physical buttons/dials/switches as possible and did so to the detriment of the car's usability.

 

And just to remind everyone, I repeat, I like the car but I do not like Sync.

[Bailey151]

.....................They know it's bad so am I supposed to just dump my car after 3 years so I can get the upgraded Sync system to support the next version? No, I don't want to splunk down another $35,000 for a damn screen. This is the problem with technology and the expected lifetime of a car: they don't sync (pun intended).

 

As for the complicated screens, some of the screens have a large number of options shown all at once. The climate window has a ridiculous number of buttons.................................

That's pretty much any technology at this point, if you want the cutting edge be prepared to pay.............now they integrated it with a car staying current becomes massively expensive. Like many other technologies one can just keep going with what one has. I have an older phone, don't care as it works & does what I need...............same with a car, MFT may not best the best it will ever be but I can live with it while enjoying an excellent car. The MFT is a secondary or tertiary thing - driving & handling are first & there it delivers.

 

Yep, they could remove them as they're redundant - can also do many with voice - is that redundant? No, it's a different way of doing it which is the same for the screen versus the "hard" controls. You have an 8" screen that isn't cluttered & has all the controls = it works. Redundant? Maybe but that's why I never use the screen (had to look at it last night). So they gave me a screen I never use................that's not the first time with technology that's happened that's for certain.

 

I am not saying MFT is wonderful, my point is more aimed at the JD Powers crowd.................if you're going to pass up one of the best mid sized sedans on the market over a workable interface well that borders on idjit.

[Mystiq]

That's pretty much any technology at this point, if you want the cutting edge be prepared to pay.............now they integrated it with a car staying current becomes massively expensive. Like many other technologies one can just keep going with what one has. I have an older phone, don't care as it works & does what I need...............same with a car, MFT may not best the best it will ever be but I can live with it while enjoying an excellent car. The MFT is a secondary or tertiary thing - driving & handling are first & there it delivers.

 

Yep, they could remove them as they're redundant - can also do many with voice - is that redundant? No, it's a different way of doing it which is the same for the screen versus the "hard" controls. You have an 8" screen that isn't cluttered & has all the controls = it works. Redundant? Maybe but that's why I never use the screen (had to look at it last night). So they gave me a screen I never use................that's not the first time with technology that's happened that's for certain.

 

I am not saying MFT is wonderful, my point is more aimed at the JD Powers crowd.................if you're going to pass up one of the best mid sized sedans on the market over a workable interface well that borders on idjit.

 

Your phone doesn't have a shelf life of 5-10 years and you can buy a new one for far, far less than $25,000, the rough starting price of a basic Fusion. In most cases, Android and iOS updates often work on the older models, especially critical fixes and usually interface improvements. iOS 7 won't work on an iPhone 3GS but it will work on the three previous models: 4, 4S and 5. I would expect MFT "Metro" to work on the 2013 Fusion but maybe not the 2012. Of course, this could all be moot as soon as the update is available. I don't have much faith in Microsoft as a consumer-facing company. They're historically pretty hostile to users, though they have gotten better as of late but that's only because they're facing competition for once.

 

I suggested to remove those buttons to reduce the complexity of that screen. Removing the voice controls would not reduce complexity because it's an alternate interface and doesn't affect the Climate screen.

 

I went in hearing horror stories about Sync and tried to remain positive but I'm just so jaded because I keep comparing the Fusion to my 2008 Altima. The touch screen was basic. It did what it did well and I had no complaints (and it had XM instead of Sirius, which sounded much, much better than Sirius). MFT tries to do a lot, and I applaud Ford (and Chevrolet) for trying to push in-car technology, but you can't forget the basics of user interface design in the process. That they're adding buttons shows you that they went a little too far.

 

I'm not going to comment on the last part because my sister was looking at a Fusion with MFT. I told her Sync is a pain in the butt but she ended up getting it anyway. Her complaints are nowhere near as serious as mine but focus on the car itself (too small, there's the sound of air coming through the driver-side window, one of the door panels is loose) rather than MFT. My enthusiasm for the car itself (and the looks) is probably what pushed her into getting it over a Mazda. I'm not everyone but I like good sound (Sirius is terrible) and I had gotten used to a simple but effective touch screen with quick access to common functionality.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Mystiq

[NickF1011]

It's good to know there's a version coming that takes after Windows 8 but it's somewhat infuriating that it may not work on my car. They know it's bad so am I supposed to just dump my car after 3 years so I can get the upgraded Sync system to support the next version? No, I don't want to splunk down another $35,000 for a damn screen. This is the problem with technology and the expected lifetime of a car: they don't sync (pun intended).

Did you also complain when the cassette player in your car couldn't play your new compact discs? Technology improves with time. Vehicles are rarely backwards compatible with it. The fact that the system can be upgraded at all is a tremendous leap forward in in-vehicle technology.

 

I've just gotten rid of 12 buttons and suddenly it looks a lot less like a mess. Someone clearly wanted to have as few physical buttons/dials/switches as possible and did so to the detriment of the car's usability.

I suppose I'm just used to the screens more than you. I don't see them as cluttered at all. :shrug: My only real complaints now with MFT is the button designs below the screen, very little with the touch screen itself with the latest updates.

[Bearcats98]

Did you also complain when the cassette player in your car couldn't play your new compact discs? Technology improves with time. Vehicles are rarely backwards compatible with it. The fact that the system can be upgraded at all is a tremendous leap forward in in-vehicle technology.

 

 

I suppose I'm just used to the screens more than you. I don't see them as cluttered at all. :shrug: My only real complaints now with MFT is the button designs below the screen, very little with the touch screen itself with the latest updates.

 

I don't see them as cluttered either.

 

I think most of this comes down to braille. It has to. I have seen a "million" physical buttons on a climate control and thought WTF (looking at Chevy climate controls)? Whats the difference if its on the screen or hard button?

 

And all the references to phones is ludicrous. Apple has a simplistic delivery but its fixed. Droid allows customization. Apples Environment is take it or leave it. Droid allows people to develop so there is a ton of garbage code where stuff works 98%. There is a give and take and you can't please everyone.

 

My only thing is regardless of presentation, make sure it works. Apple fans are going to want to be led to the water and told how to drink it. Droid fans are going to want to customize the crap out of it and move buttons just for the sake of moving them. Its not going to happen.

[Bailey151]

Your phone doesn't have a shelf life of 5-10 years and you can buy a new one for far, far less than $25,000, the rough starting price of a basic Fusion. In most cases, Android and iOS updates often work on the older models, especially critical fixes and usually interface improvements. iOS 7 won't work on an iPhone 3GS but it will work on the three previous models: 4, 4S and 5. I would expect MFT "Metro" to work on the 2013 Fusion but maybe not the 2012. Of course, this could all be moot as soon as the update is available. I don't have much faith in Microsoft as a consumer-facing company. They're historically pretty hostile to users, though they have gotten better as of late but that's only because they're facing competition for once.

 

I suggested to remove those buttons to reduce the complexity of that screen. Removing the voice controls would not reduce complexity because it's an alternate interface and doesn't affect the Climate screen.

That's one of the issues - the lifespan of a car versus a phone. As I said you can stay cutting edge..............but in the case of a car it will cost you, big time.

 

The reason you the versions of linux/unix are backward compatible on a phone is the processor - arm based. They can run various versions as at their core they're the same. I have no idea what processor(s) is used in MFT - standard or customized (guessing the latter). If it's customized to a big extent it's highly unlikely to run a new interface = MS can only do so much with what the resources available. I guess we'll see this summer.

 

Now I did get a good chuckle from "hostile to users" - it's a thread jack but they're not even close to the worst. The worst is the company that makes every single thing proprietary. They're compatible & is interoperable with nothing.................that's hostile to the user. But even that works out - a few years ago they were begging for salvation @ a party & they're on the express train right back there......................one would think they're learn proprietary is a fail.

 

MS may well have gotten better but it's not due to competition - they have about the same as they always did - little or none. It will be a long time before the desktop is replaced by other devices, the desktop is where MS dominates. They're also gaining ground in the big market of business/back end software. In tablets & phones MS is a little player. Apple is the one with competition.........and one only need look at the stock price to see how the competition is going.

 

Back to topic - I didn't say get rid of voice, I said the climate screen itself is redundant - it's not really even needed = so why bother changing it.

[NickF1011]

The reason you the versions of linux/unix are backward compatible on a phone is the processor - arm based. They can run various versions as at their core they're the same. I have no idea what processor(s) is used in MFT - standard or customized (guessing the latter). If it's customized to a big extent it's highly unlikely to run a new interface = MS can only do so much with what the resources available. I guess we'll see this summer.

Well, I think the biggest thing that will prevent future versions from being backwards compatible won't necessarily be the MyFord Touch hardware itself, but the other hardware it controls. Eventually Ford is not going to want to program controls for every single version of every single Ford vehicle that comes out from this point out. As changes are made to functions in the climate control or media player or navigation, it will eventually become a waste of resources to tweak a slightly different version of the MFT OS for every vehicle to make sure it's backwards compatible.

 

It's probably complicated enough already having different versions for Ford and Lincoln and then to add/remove slightly different features based on the options a particular model is offered with. Even vehicles of the same generation will have different versions. For example, my 2011 Edge did not offer cooled seats, so that functionality is not programmed into the 2011 version of MFT, but the 2013 does offer them, so it needs to be available in the programming for that model.

Edited June 28, 2013 by NickF1011

[Iggnutts]

Ford, get on board!

 

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/07/08/ios-7-in-the-car-over-airplay/