twintornados Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Edward Snowden yahoo story What really pisses me off is not what he did, is that he did not believe in his fellow countrymen to stand with him that also did not agree with what the NSA did. He should have stayed and he would have found a ground-swell of support for revealing the nature of the NSA....instead, he slunk out in the middle of the night like a coward and now he sits in Russia acting like some kind of hero....he would be a hero if he came here to face his accusers...but instead, he shows just how much of a coward an entire generation has become due to his looking to Putin for protection....his own countrymen would have protected him and stood with him. THAT is what bugs me about this whole thing, not his leaking of documents....his lack of faith in his own people.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Edward Snowden yahoo story What really pisses me off is not what he did, is that he did not believe in his fellow countrymen to stand with him that also did not agree with what the NSA did. He should have stayed and he would have found a ground-swell of support for revealing the nature of the NSA....instead, he slunk out in the middle of the night like a coward and now he sits in Russia acting like some kind of hero....he would be a hero if he came here to face his accusers...but instead, he shows just how much of a coward an entire generation has become due to his looking to Putin for protection....his own countrymen would have protected him and stood with him. THAT is what bugs me about this whole thing, not his leaking of documents....his lack of faith in his own people.... You pre-suppose the NSA would refrain from the character assination we usually see in the political arena. Whistleblower or not, he would have been characterized as a traitor and excoriated in the press and by the government because he showed Americans what was happening behind the curtains and exposed the Wizard of Oz as a sham who may not be so benevolent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Or-Nothing Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Hopefully..........someone sneeks up on him in the night and helps him take his last breath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Hopefully..........someone sneeks up on him in the night and helps him take his last breath. All in the name of protecting those who abuse their power? I do think he has held back the most damaging evidence. And I think his intentions were to make Americans aware of the extent the government was infringing upon our rights to privacy. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 While I think he was right for exposing the abuse of power, I'm not surprised BY the abuse of power or the methods. I think it's a little naive to think that spying tactics have not been used since the dawn of civilization. What I don't agree with is him trading US secrets for asylum in other countries. As far as my information, I don't care. I don't care what my government knows about me. I don't care if they read my mail, listen to my phone calls or put me on video 24 hours a day. I don't do anything illegal and anyone looking for evidence of wrongdoing would die of boredom. Just keep your drones off my driveway (and out of my airspace and mountain/beach views) and record from a distance. In this day and age if you want real privacy, go primitive. Pay cash/barter for everything (preferably coin for you tin-foil types) and never get online. Dump the cell-phone. I've got better things to do with my time than ponder/worry about my government knowing everything about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Edward Snowden yahoo story What really pisses me off is not what he did, is that he did not believe in his fellow countrymen to stand with him that also did not agree with what the NSA did. He should have stayed and he would have found a ground-swell of support for revealing the nature of the NSA....instead, he slunk out in the middle of the night like a coward and now he sits in Russia acting like some kind of hero....he would be a hero if he came here to face his accusers...but instead, he shows just how much of a coward an entire generation has become due to his looking to Putin for protection....his own countrymen would have protected him and stood with him. THAT is what bugs me about this whole thing, not his leaking of documents....his lack of faith in his own people.... I don't know what he is. What i do know is that I struggle to believe EITHER the government or Snowden himself about who he really is. There's a part of me that wonders if this is a spying for another country gone wrong, or more specifically him being set up by another country that was already aware of the issues and wanted to put it out in the public and have a scapegoat. Could Chinese or Israeli spies convinced him to do something and purposefully left him hanging in the wind? Given what i've read about Snowden it's hard to believe that he got access to what he did without some malfeasance on others part. And i'm not sure anyone would rally around him because they sure didn't rally around Brad.....er Chelsea Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I don't know what he is. What i do know is that I struggle to believe EITHER the government or Snowden himself about who he really is. There's a part of me that wonders if this is a spying for another country gone wrong, or more specifically him being set up by another country that was already aware of the issues and wanted to put it out in the public and have a scapegoat. Could Chinese or Israeli spies convinced him to do something and purposefully left him hanging in the wind? Given what i've read about Snowden it's hard to believe that he got access to what he did without some malfeasance on others part. And i'm not sure anyone would rally around him because they sure didn't rally around Brad.....er Chelsea Manning. What he did accomplish was demonstrating how secure our personal and tax data is when it is managed by the U.S. government. Oh, and add that felons are eligible to be Navigators. Just call in and give them your checking account and personal income info. Trust them. They're from the government and are there to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 What he did accomplish was demonstrating how secure our personal and tax data is when it is managed by the U.S. government. Oh, and add that felons are eligible to be Navigators. Just call in and give them your checking account and personal income info. Trust them. They're from the government and are there to help. Way to hijack the thread and go off on an anti-ACA bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Way to hijack the thread and go off on an anti-ACA bit. It's not going away....I know you would like for us to stop talking about it but.....heard a blurb on the radio yesterday saying that Christmas retail sales are down to 09 levels and some economist are attributing it to peoples' fear of the cost of barrycare.....so deal with it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Way to hijack the thread and go off on an anti-ACA bit. They are very much interrelated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Or-Nothing Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 What he did accomplish was demonstrating how secure our personal and tax data is when it is managed by the U.S. government. LMAO.....so you think it is only the government that messes up. Target just had 40 Million credit card numbers hacked. Yep only the government has Data leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) It's not going away....I know you would like for us to stop talking about it but.....heard a blurb on the radio yesterday saying that Christmas retail sales are down to 09 levels and some economist are attributing it to peoples' fear of the cost of barrycare.....so deal with it.... I don't care if you talk about it. Have fun. Some economists? Any particular ones? I don't want to continue the hijack but I'd like to see the data on retail sales. Could you find your link for me, because i can't seem to find anything that says sales overall are down. Holiday purchases increased 2 percent from Nov. 1 to Dec. 22, ShopperTrak said. Sales will rise 2.4 percent for the whole season, the smallest gain since 2009, Martin reiterated. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-23/shoppers-grab-sweeter-deals-in-last-minute-holiday-dash.html Edited December 26, 2013 by Langston Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 LMAO.....so you think it is only the government that messes up. Target just had 40 Million credit card numbers hacked. Yep only the government has Data leaks. I have a choice of using Target (I don't) and other commercial entities, or not. The government is mandatory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 I have a choice of using Target (I don't) and other commercial entities, or not. The government is mandatory. So your okay with voluntary leaks? Good to know. All kidding aside, information is vulnerable and grumbling about this entity or that entity being potentially secure is a bit much, as they are all insecure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Man is a hero.... what's really sad is that people have become so complacent and trusting of the government that they would so easily condemn him. Who would have thought Americans would one day turn into a sad flock of Sheep; so willing to sacrifice eachother by pushing them down into the Volcano... Edited December 27, 2013 by probowler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 So your okay with voluntary leaks? Good to know. All kidding aside, information is vulnerable and grumbling about this entity or that entity being potentially secure is a bit much, as they are all insecure. So your OK with the government spying on all of us considering our rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 So your OK with the government spying on all of us considering our rights? I wasn't talking about that, was I? Nope, I was not. How did you come up with that? Nothing to say about data security by the government or private business? I have routinely made my point that I opposed the Patriot act since it's inception and did not appreciate the violations of our rights that have been going on since the day that Bush passed it. However i'm not going to act all faux outraged at Obama when this is nothing new, just a continuation of a policy that went unchecked for years prior to him. The government spying on us is not a partisan issue and it's not an Obama only issue. Just like where one of you (Can't remember if that was you or Fired) went off about an Feinstein interview did and come to find out it was a joint interview with the majority chairman Rep Mike Rogers (R MI), the issue of spying is not this one guy or this one party. I dislike government violating our rights, but i am aware that it's been happening since before my birth and probably will continue long after my death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Nothing to say about data security by the government or private business? I have routinely made my point that I opposed the Patriot act since it's inception and did not appreciate the violations of our rights that have been going on since the day that Bush passed it. However i'm not going to act all faux outraged at Obama when this is nothing new, just a continuation of a policy that went unchecked for years prior to him. The government spying on us is not a partisan issue and it's not an Obama only issue. Just like where one of you (Can't remember if that was you or Fired) went off about an Feinstein interview did and come to find out it was a joint interview with the majority chairman Rep Mike Rogers (R MI), the issue of spying is not this one guy or this one party. I dislike government violating our rights, but i am aware that it's been happening since before my birth and probably will continue long after my death. Yes, in the private sector we have a choice and we live by that choice. With the government we are forced into whatever with no choice. You should "act all faux outraged" and demand the same as you did of Bush though. Edited December 27, 2013 by fmccap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Yes, in the private sector we have a choice and we live by that choice. With the government we are forced into whatever with no choice. You should "act all faux outraged" and demand the same as you did of Bush though. Again as I posted before, my give a damn is busted. I don't like what they are doing but I'm not going to join the chorus of... It's Obama's fault, he's an Islamic marxist who is trying to take our rights away. When a majority of the people in that chorus were defending the Patriot act under Bush despite plenty of scandals concerning abuses of it. I have become resigned to the fact that it's always going to be here and neither side is going to get rid of it. But feel free to act like Obama is the devil and what Snowden has is only about what his admin did. You won't be correct but that's never stopped you before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 27, 2013 Author Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Man is a hero.... what's really sad is that people have become so complacent and trusting of the government that they would so easily condemn him. Who would have thought Americans would one day turn into a sad flock of Sheep; so willing to sacrifice eachother by pushing them down into the Volcano... His actions, while heroic, are minimized by his fleeing the country and allowing an even bigger "big brother" in the form of Russia and the media hound president THEY have in the form of Vladimir Putin become his benefactor and protector....he did not have faith in his own countrymen to rally to his side....in my view, he showed cowardice by cutting and running when he should have stood on his principles and allow the country he was trying to save to protect him as well.... Edited December 27, 2013 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JScullin Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 His actions, while heroic, are minimized by his fleeing the country and allowing an even bigger "big brother" in the form of Russia and the media hound president THEY have in the form of Vladimir Putin become his benefactor and protector....he did not have faith in his own countrymen to rally to his side....in my view, he showed cowardice by cutting and running when he should have stood on his principles and allow the country he was trying to save to protect him as well.... You're beyond naive to think that if he stayed here he wouldn't just be thrown in a cell to be forgotten about or suddenly in an "accident". Our government, and the media going along with it, has no issues with performing character assassination to those who leak the truth. Bradley Manning is a confused she-male, Julian Assange is a sex-crazed rapist....the media latches onto that. Snowden is literally provided facts about what we suspected all along being true that our government is spying on us and allies, abusing power and manipulating the global economy. In the beginning the media focused on him leaving his hot girlfriend. He's given himself immunity in that if he's killed or disappears for a certain length all the info is released. He didn't pick Russia, he's tried to go to a few places that would take him but couldn't find safe passage. Guy is a hero, and he's playing the game exactly how he should to stay alive and keep the message out there because he knows what will happen to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 One man's hero is another man's traitor. You may not like what the NSA does, but given that any country in the world would do the exact same thing (if it had the capability), the question becomes which country other than the U.S. would you prefer be top dog? I'd prefer it be the U.S. At least here, I can (usually) defend myself against such intrusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JScullin Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 At least here, I can (usually) defend myself against such intrusion. But we've discovered you can't anymore. Not unless you go completely off the grid at this point. They've made software companies install backdoors for them, they've tapped into data centers without companies knowledge to intercept info, they force phone providers to give up access to peoples call data. This is what we've discovered from the leaks so far. They didn't do this with warrants or public knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) But we've discovered you can't anymore. Not unless you go completely off the grid at this point. They've made software companies install backdoors for them, they've tapped into data centers without companies knowledge to intercept info, they force phone providers to give up access to peoples call data. This is what we've discovered from the leaks so far. They didn't do this with warrants or public knowledge. But without warrants and without the ability to cross examine (the ability to face my accuser), I cannot be convicted of anything. That's not to say I acquiesce to whatever the government does, but there is absolutely nothing the NSA can/would do to me without exposing its abilities. That's one reason I have little to fear. Anything I do/did is small potatoes to what the NSA would be looking for. And if you're worried about them taking your information, why not feed them some disinformation? You can also use TOR. Edited December 27, 2013 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JScullin Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 Wow...that's just...sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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