fmccap Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Interesting..... http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/19/common-core-is-taking-aim-at-the-souls-of-our-children-says-a-classical-educator-video/ You’ve seen the troubles with the national takeover of health care by Obamacare, he said, “but imagine the national takeover of the American minds and souls? That’s what Common Core is.”“Because once you control the curriculum in the schools, then you can dictate what students are supposed to think and feel, and how they are supposed to look at the world,” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Given the idiots that Red states are letting create their own revisionist history in public school education, I think a takeover might be needed. http://gawker.com/5540483/meet-the-crusader-behind-texas-textbook-whitewash In Texas we have certain statutory obligations to promote patriotism and to promote the free enterprise system. There seems to have been a move away from a patriotic ideology. There seems to be a denial that this was a nation founded under God. We had to go back and make some corrections." It says nothing about actually educating our children. Turning them into mindless little christian patriots yes, but educating no. Advising Dunbar and the school board is David Barton, founder of the revisionist group WallBuilders, whose stated goal is "to exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by (1) educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country; (2) providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values; and (3) encouraging Christians to be involved in the civic arena." Because if Christians aren't involved in the indoctrination of our youth, then the terrorist-loving liberals will continue to ruin our nation unchecked. http://www.wallbuilders.com/ABTOverview.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Given the idiots that Red states are letting create their own revisionist history in public school education, I think a takeover might be needed. http://gawker.com/5540483/meet-the-crusader-behind-texas-textbook-whitewash It says nothing about actually educating our children. Turning them into mindless little christian patriots yes, but educating no. http://www.wallbuilders.com/ABTOverview.asp Hey that sounds just like our new national program. Maybe this is one of the things that should go back to the states and local level. Easiest way to see is look at our rankings since the Dept. of Ed was created in 1979. We have been going down with no end in sight. ANOTHER GREAT FEDERAL PROGRAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Hey that sounds just like our new national program. Maybe this is one of the things that should go back to the states and local level. Easiest way to see is look at our rankings since the Dept. of Ed was created in 1979. We have been going down with no end in sight. ANOTHER GREAT FEDERAL PROGRAM. I'm sure that it is not anything like what is going on in Texas, but the changes in Texas clearly show that state level control is still much more powerful than Federal. So much for giving more to the state level theory you espouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I certainly don't agree with TX (or any other states) injecting religious nonsense in any curriculum, particularly when US students can't even crack the top 20 in the world for STEM subjects as it is. Common Core is definitely a big change but at the end of the day it will require that teachers and students work harder...so I would expect there to be a lot of resistance against it. Edited January 26, 2014 by the_spaniard 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I certainly don't agree with TX (or any other states) injecting religious nonsense in any curriculum, particularly when US students can't even crack the top 20 in the world for STEM subjects as it is. Common Core is definitely a big change but at the end of the day it will require that teachers and students work harder...so I would expect there to be a lot of resistance against it. I don't think the resistance is about having to work harder. It's what the program is about. Read up on it and what it really consists of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I don't think the resistance is about having to work harder. It's what the program is about. Read up on it and what it really consists of. I have. The states have failed at every level to do their job when it comes to education. - We are ranked 22/27 in K-12 education among industrialized nations - We are ranked behind 13 other countries in terms of the percentage of 25- to 34-year-olds who have completed some college coursework - Less than half of American students – 46% – finish college. The U.S. ranks last among 18 countries measured on this indicator. - American students rank 25th in math, 17th in science and 14th in reading compared to students in 27 industrialized countries - 2 of 3 8th graders can't read proficiently - 3 of 4 8th through 12th graders can't read proficiently With results like the above I feel very pretty good about any significant change in practice. The states had their chance. They blew it. A prime example of a time when the feds should step in. It would be nice to shed a portion of our international reputation as being "stupid, fat, and lazy". Edited January 26, 2014 by the_spaniard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 - They blew it. A prime example of a time when the feds should step in. It would be nice to shed a portion of our international reputation as being "stupid, fat, and lazy". Now this is funny....the feds did such a good job launching barrycare....yeah lets call them in to help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) Now this is funny....the feds did such a good job launching barrycare....yeah lets call them in to help.... Yeah, because everything the federal government does is done poorly and is the devil. And obviously the states can do it better, because....they...are, right? Or would you be happy just letting the states continue to produce Americans so poorly educated until all the "serious work" is done by foreigners? All while "patriotic" Americans chant "USA! USA! USA!" proclaiming that our country is so much better than those other countries...you know the countries that send their students to our Universities, the ones that only 46% of our own students can finish? Or do you have another solution? Edited January 26, 2014 by the_spaniard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have. The states have failed at every level to do their job when it comes to education. - We are ranked 22/27 in K-12 education among industrialized nations - We are ranked behind 13 other countries in terms of the percentage of 25- to 34-year-olds who have completed some college coursework - Less than half of American students – 46% – finish college. The U.S. ranks last among 18 countries measured on this indicator. - American students rank 25th in math, 17th in science and 14th in reading compared to students in 27 industrialized countries - 2 of 3 8th graders can't read proficiently - 3 of 4 8th through 12th graders can't read proficiently With results like the above I feel very pretty good about any significant change in practice. The states had their chance. They blew it. A prime example of a time when the feds should step in. It would be nice to shed a portion of our international reputation as being "stupid, fat, and lazy". It's not really under the states. They basically have to do what the Department of Education says or lose funding. DOE started in 1979 and to my knowledge we have been in a steady fall since then. I say first place to start is get rid of the DOE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah, because everything the federal government does is done poorly and is the devil. And obviously the states can do it better, because....they...are, right? Or would you be happy just letting the states continue to produce Americans so poorly educated until all the "serious work" is done by foreigners? All while "patriotic" Americans chant "USA! USA! USA!" proclaiming that our country is so much better than those other countries...you know the countries that send their students to our Universities, the ones that only 46% of our own students can finish? Or do you have another solution? You mention again it's all the states fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yeah, because everything the federal government does is done poorly and is the devil. And obviously the states can do it better, because....they...are, right? Or would you be happy just letting the states continue to produce Americans so poorly educated until all the "serious work" is done by foreigners? All while "patriotic" Americans chant "USA! USA! USA!" proclaiming that our country is so much better than those other countries...you know the countries that send their students to our Universities, the ones that only 46% of our own students can finish? Or do you have another solution? Start by eliminating the DOE.....as mentioned above by FMCap, it's been a total failure....I'm for school choice using vouchers.......teachers' pay should be merit based, not tenure, bad teachers need to be push out of the system....teachers should be required to re-certify on a regular basis .......eliminate teachers' unions, they have not place in public education.......create a process that holds parents responsible for their child's success using monetary penalties as motivation ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 States pay into DOE then beg for funding assistance from DOE. Centralized control at it's finest. Do it DOE way or you don't get any of "your" money back along with some from other states contributions. And considering most states expect funding from DOE in excess of their contributions, miraculously more money is available for distribution than is contributed...AFTER federal government "manages" the funds and bureaucratically mete out to individual states based on some formula where less successful states get more assistance and successful states get less. Let the states keep their funds and locally manage their needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I don't think the resistance is about having to work harder. It's what the program is about. Read up on it and what it really consists of. http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/aclu-sues-sabine-parish-school-board-for-alleged-r/d/story/PoPXlxtk5E6vNf5eQxHLVw Yes, because schools that teach christian creation are so much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's not really under the states. They basically have to do what the Department of Education says or lose funding. DOE started in 1979 and to my knowledge we have been in a steady fall since then. I say first place to start is get rid of the DOE. Start by eliminating the DOE.....as mentioned above by FMCap, it's been a total failure....I'm for school choice using vouchers.......teachers' pay should be merit based, not tenure, bad teachers need to be push out of the system....teachers should be required to re-certify on a regular basis .......eliminate teachers' unions, they have not place in public education.......create a process that holds parents responsible for their child's success using monetary penalties as motivation ...... States pay into DOE then beg for funding assistance from DOE. Centralized control at it's finest. Do it DOE way or you don't get any of "your" money back along with some from other states contributions. And considering most states expect funding from DOE in excess of their contributions, miraculously more money is available for distribution than is contributed...AFTER federal government "manages" the funds and bureaucratically mete out to individual states based on some formula where less successful states get more assistance and successful states get less. Let the states keep their funds and locally manage their needs. Can anyone tell us how the evil DOE is ruining the US education with their standards? No one has even mentioned what the standards are, let alone what you have to teach. It certainly didn't stop states from teaching Christianity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I certainly don't agree with TX (or any other states) injecting religious nonsense in any curriculum, particularly when US students can't even crack the top 20 in the world for STEM subjects as it is. Common Core is definitely a big change but at the end of the day it will require that teachers and students work harder...so I would expect there to be a lot of resistance against it. Speaking from my experience with a 6th grader experiencing this system, it makes students work harder because the method of teaching makes little sense. Functionally, there is a push to learn more concepts faster with constant review of topics already covered. It's learning by doing the bunny hop. And for students who didn't get something the first time, the whirlwind style is bewildering. Because the teacher spends little time focusing on a subject at hand before jumping to the next, some students (like my daughter) have a more difficult time understanding (especially in math). It seems designed to weed out the slow learners faster. But it's only because it intentionally puts them at a disadvantage. When the teacher explains something in only one or two ways, it leaves behind those who could have understood, if it had been explained another way. Edited January 27, 2014 by RangerM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 It certainly didn't stop states from teaching Christianity. Well, legally, it's supposed to. Whether or not it does should be a matter for the courts to enforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Can anyone tell us how the evil DOE is ruining the US education with their standards? No one has even mentioned what the standards are, let alone what you have to teach. It certainly didn't stop states from teaching Christianity. It created a culture of teaching to the tests. Standardized testing results in the loss of expanse of knowledge for the benefit of prepping for standardized test questions. Breadth of knowledge suffers in the name of school performance grading. Atlanta recently exemplified this when the administrators and teachers were caught correcting the answers of the students tests. They showed their handling that the corrections were overwhelmingly wrong to right and almost no right to wrong. Because teacher and administrator pay is tied to the school's performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/story/aclu-sues-sabine-parish-school-board-for-alleged-r/d/story/PoPXlxtk5E6vNf5eQxHLVw Yes, because schools that teach christian creation are so much better. I don't believe I said anything like that did I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Can anyone tell us how the evil DOE is ruining the US education with their standards? No one has even mentioned what the standards are, let alone what you have to teach. It certainly didn't stop states from teaching Christianity. How about you tell us what is good about it? After all since it was created where has our rankings gone? Why do you keep bringing up religious stuff when we are not talking about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Speaking from my experience with a 6th grader experiencing this system, it makes students work harder because the method of teaching makes little sense. Functionally, there is a push to learn more concepts faster with constant review of topics already covered. It's learning by doing the bunny hop. And for students who didn't get something the first time, the whirlwind style is bewildering. Because the teacher spends little time focusing on a subject at hand before jumping to the next, some students (like my daughter) have a more difficult time understanding (especially in math). It seems designed to weed out the slow learners faster. But it's only because it intentionally puts them at a disadvantage. When the teacher explains something in only one or two ways, it leaves behind those who could have understood, if it had been explained another way. I can agree with that having a 7th and 9th grader. The way they are teaching makes no sense. I can get him right answers (the old tried and true way) but figuring out the "long work" for math problems is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) My concern would be the same as anyone else...having each states own revisionist version of history being taught, much of it with questionable accuracy. TX is off to a good start. The DOE was founded in 1979. US Academic rankings have been dropping like a rock since after WWII. Correlation is not causation. And while people want to ignore religious intervention in education, 46% of Americans believe in creationism, and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. That nonsense is a pervasive enough cultural issue as-is, we are far enough behind without worrying about fairy tales and allegories. As for students having a tough time with learning under these methods, it is commonly held this is not so much the students fault, but the fact that previous standards were so abysmally poor that actually doing real work at an established level is a shock to the system. Of course it is hard. The current students (transitioning from old to new) will have the toughest time. To make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs..or in this case unlearn was taught and learn it the right way. When I was young and taking math, we always had to "show our work" and I can understand resistance to now "explaining the showing of your work"....but I also see its value. Edited January 28, 2014 by the_spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) To make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs..or in this case unlearn was taught and learn it the right way. When I was young and taking math, we always had to "show our work" and I can understand resistance to now "explaining the showing of your work"....but I also see its value. You and I are speaking a differently language if you think the way things are being taught under this system is a simple as "explaining the showing of your work". What I've said is there are new concepts introduced before the basics are learned. The teacher wants to build the house (practically) all at one time, rather than starting with the foundation and working up. "Breaking a few eggs" is a euphemism for leaving a significant portion of the student body to languish. If my daughter understands when I explain things, but not when the teacher does, are you really so arrogant as to suggest she's learning the wrong way? I used to work as a cashier without the benefit of a register or a calculator. The ability to compute things in one's head may be a skill whose time has passed, but one benefit is I usually know when the machine is giving me the wrong answer (and not just when making change). Edited January 28, 2014 by RangerM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) When I was young and taking math, we always had to "show our work" and I can understand resistance to now "explaining the showing of your work"....but I also see its value. As long as the "explaining" doesn't give you credit if you still did it wrong. Then again, what is there to really "explain" in basic mathematics? It's either right or wrong. The showing of work IS the explanation. There's no gray area there like there could be in something like English or social studies. Edited January 28, 2014 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As long as the "s-plaining" doesn't give you credit if you still did it wrong. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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