fmccap Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 As long as the "explaining" doesn't give you credit if you still did it wrong. Then again, what is there to really "explain" in basic mathematics? It's either right or wrong. The showing of work IS the explanation. There's no gray area there like there could be in something like English or social studies. I have not experienced it but have heard some say that you do get credit if the child's answer was close. My children have a whole "new" way of figuring out problems that from what I can see is a lot longer and more complicated than we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 You and I are speaking a differently language if you think the way things are being taught under this system is a simple as "explaining the showing of your work". What I've said is there are new concepts introduced before the basics are learned. The teacher wants to build the house (practically) all at one time, rather than starting with the foundation and working up. "Breaking a few eggs" is a euphemism for leaving a significant portion of the student body to languish. If my daughter understands when I explain things, but not when the teacher does, are you really so arrogant as to suggest she's learning the wrong way? I used to work as a cashier without the benefit of a register or a calculator. The ability to compute things in one's head may be a skill whose time has passed, but one benefit is I usually know when the machine is giving me the wrong answer (and not just when making change). Computing things in your head is a skill that's long gone. I give my kids some answers off the top of my head and they look at me amazed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Computing things in your head is a skill that's long gone. I give my kids some answers off the top of my head and they look at me amazed. Since SOME students have difficulty performing "in the head" calculations, the curriculum is modified to the least common denominator where everyone is taught the method the least capiable students can perform. And we act surprised our students underperformed against other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB390fe Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I have 3 Kids ranging from 9th grade to kindergarten... I can see a major shift where the kids are only being taught to pass those damn tests. My 10 year old got a test back the other day. in it, the teacher had marked a multiple choice question wrong. It was something like 'which is the correct statement for =0 a 0 x 1, 1 x 0, 1 x 1, etc. my son had marked 0 x 1 and it was marked wrong. I emailed the teacher asking how this was wrong, since 0 x 1 is the SAME as 1 x 0 as a phrase.... I was told that the standards test will only accept 1 x 0 as the correct answer. Talk about ridged thinking.... Something has to change.. the whole school thing is broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 ......the curriculum is modified to the least common denominator where everyone is taught the method the least capable students can perform. I might have thought that, until my daughter (tried to) describe how her teacher showed her subtraction using a number line. That even confused me. I showed her how to subtract the way I was taught, and she had no trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 With two kids under 11, i am having none of the teach the test issues with my children, and don't find the curriculum that out of sync with what I think it should be. However the schools they attend do the International Baccalaureate program. http://www.ibo.org/pyp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 With two kids under 11, i am having none of the teach the test issues with my children, and don't find the curriculum that out of sync with what I think it should be. However the schools they attend do the International Baccalaureate program. http://www.ibo.org/pyp/ With two kids under 11, i am having none of the teach the test issues with my children, and don't find the curriculum that out of sync with what I think it should be. However the schools they attend do the International Baccalaureate program. http://www.ibo.org/pyp/ Simply amazing...who'd ever thunk that you would have a different experience than the rest..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 I might have thought that, until my daughter (tried to) describe how her teacher showed her subtraction using a number line. That even confused me. I showed her how to subtract the way I was taught, and she had no trouble. Same thing happened with my 6th grader. I just want to know why? It's a more confusing and harder way to do the same thing. Is this a follow the money scenario, who's making bank off of new curriculum and text books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Ranger, I'm not saying anything about you or your daughter. Relax. What I am saying is this is a new way of learning things from the ground up, and that will be hard, and there will be resistance to it based on the fact that it has never been done this way. If I were taking those classes, I would be kicking and screaming the same way as anyone else. "Breaking a few eggs" is a euphemism for leaving a significant portion of the student body to languish. No, that is the system we have in place now. We know it doesn't work, look at the statistics. As you will hear me exclaim over and over, the average American has an 8th-grade reading level. Every study on education shows American students are behind - significantly. It's no secret we are doing horribly in STEM subjects. The curriculum is part of that, teachers are part of that, and the fact that American culture does not value education as much as other cultures do is part of that. You have to start somewhere. Edited January 28, 2014 by the_spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Simply amazing...who'd ever thunk that you would have a different experience than the rest..... Who'd ever thunk that you'd quote me twice. Perhaps because i'm not a public school hating conservative? I don't know but we have very little complaints and both my kids do well in the IB program so it might just be the district. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Who'd ever thunk that you'd quote me twice. Perhaps because i'm not a public school hating conservative? I don't know but we have very little complaints and both my kids do well in the IB program so it might just be the district. So that's a vote to keep things "status quo"? Why am I not surprised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Who'd ever thunk that you'd quote me twice. Perhaps because i'm not a public school hating conservative? I don't know but we have very little complaints and both my kids do well in the IB program so it might just be the district. Yeah, that's it I'm sure...just the district....who are the public school hating conservative that you referred to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So that's a vote to keep things "status quo"? Why am I not surprised? Wow, distorting what i said again? Why am i not surprised that you are replying to all my posts with distortions. My kids have been in non-CC, Non-IB schools and in IB schools. The latter is a better school and they are much farther ahead now. I have no problems with how or what they are learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yeah, that's it I'm sure...just the district....who are the public school hating conservative that you referred to? It could be or it could be that conservatives bitching about CC or other programs are what i say they are. And I'm going with CAP as one, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Ranger, I'm not saying anything about you or your daughter. Relax. What I am saying is this is a new way of learning things from the ground up, and that will be hard, and there will be resistance to it based on the fact that it has never been done this way. If I were taking those classes, I would be kicking and screaming the same way as anyone else. No, that is the system we have in place now. We know it doesn't work, look at the statistics. As you will hear me exclaim over and over, the average American has an 8th-grade reading level. Every study on education shows American students are behind - significantly. It's no secret we are doing horribly in STEM subjects. The curriculum is part of that, teachers are part of that, and the fact that American culture does not value education as much as other cultures do is part of that. You have to start somewhere. Honestly, you don't have to worry about me or my daughter, because she has every advantage--two loving parents willing to push and work with her with the resources to back it up. But with every advantage she has, it doesn't help that she has to be taught twice. Here's the line you've drawn..... "the system we have in place now......doesn't work........American students are behind........we are doing horribly in STEM subjects......American culture does not value education as much as other cultures......You have to start somewhere." You haven't explained (as best I can tell) how this "somewhere" will change anything for the better, yet I've explained how (as a practical matter) this "somewhere" method of teaching is unintuitive and more difficult to understand and learn from. I've been to parent-teacher conferences, and the frustration isn't only on the parent/student side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 It could be or it could be that conservatives bitching about CC or other programs are what i say they are. And I'm going with CAP as one, for sure. What do you say they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 So that's a vote to keep things "status quo"? Why am I not surprised? Until there's a Republican president again. Then the education system will be horrible and in need of a liberal makeover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Until there's a Republican president again. Then the education system will be horrible and in need of a liberal makeover. You're catching on. The "two party system" we have is really two sides of the same coin with elections providing the illusion of getting something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langston Hughes Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Until there's a Republican president again. Then the education system will be horrible and in need of a liberal makeover. The last system didn't work (NCLB), and Ted Kennedy had his hands all over it. There needs to be a better system regardless of who is in office. I do like the IB system and my kids have done well under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 (edited) You haven't explained (as best I can tell) how this "somewhere" will change anything for the better, yet I've explained how (as a practical matter) this "somewhere" method of teaching is unintuitive and more difficult to understand and learn from. I've been to parent-teacher conferences, and the frustration isn't only on the parent/student side of things. And that's the thing isn't it? While you (or I) may see it as unintuitive and difficult to learn from, many others do not. Declaring it as such either way does not make it so. Despite what many people think, you cannot assess a program without actually implementing it. I would rather implement a new curriculum than do absolutely nothing, which will only guarantee the status-quo: a population of academically non-competitive people. Change is not easy, particularly when we are so far behind. Edited January 29, 2014 by the_spaniard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 And that's the thing isn't it? While you (or I) may see it as unintuitive and difficult to learn from, many others do not. Declaring it as such either way does not make it so. Despite what many people think, you cannot assess a program without actually implementing it. I would rather implement a new curriculum than do absolutely nothing, which will only guarantee the status-quo: a population of academically non-competitive people. Change is not easy, particularly when we are so far behind. Does a "new curriculum" improve a crappy school? I'd think not, but if you'd like to try to make that case, I'm willing to listen. As much as I understand that public school teachers don't get to choose their students (something I'd be willing to remedy, btw), I also know that many parents/students don't get to choose their school. Just as Obamacare is a 100% solution to a 15% problem, so too is changing an entire curriculum a one-size-fits-all that doesn't. As much as we use other countries as examples of what works, many of those European countries (if not all of them) allow parents to choose where to send their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_spaniard Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Does a "new curriculum" improve a crappy school? I'd think not, but if you'd like to try to make that case, I'm willing to listen. As much as I understand that public school teachers don't get to choose their students (something I'd be willing to remedy, btw), I also know that many parents/students don't get to choose their school. Just as Obamacare is a 100% solution to a 15% problem, so too is changing an entire curriculum a one-size-fits-all that doesn't. As much as we use other countries as examples of what works, many of those European countries (if not all of them) allow parents to choose where to send their children. Obamacare is one attempt (good or bad - time will tell) solution to a national disgrace of a problem - the wealthiest country in the world not being able to take care of it's own citizens, but having plenty of money for aid and interventionist ridiculousness for others around the globe. A "one-size-fits-all" curriculum is exactly what many other countries have, with much higher rates of graduation and at the end of the day smarter and more well-prepared students then our current "lowest common denominator" system offers. Curriculum is only one part of the puzzle. There are crappy schools and crappy teachers, and as I mentioned before culturally education isn't valued here as much as elsewhere. I wonder how many other countries have a word like "nerd"? Because, you know, it's not cool to be smart. I would also support a parents right to choose where they send their children to public school but in some areas people do not have a lot to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisH Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Curriculum is only one part of the puzzle. There are crappy schools and crappy teachers, and as I mentioned before culturally education isn't valued here as much as elsewhere. A big part of our problem with education is lack of parental involvement. Too many kids have parents that don't take an interest in their child's education. A few bad (undisciplined, uninterested, or disruptive) kids can wreak havoc on a class room. RangerM sounds like a good example of a parent that is involved and interested in his child's education. We need more parents like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiredMotorCompany Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) A big part of our problem with education is lack of parental involvement. Too many kids have parents that don't take an interest in their child's education. A few bad (undisciplined, uninterested, or disruptive) kids can wreak havoc on a class room. RangerM sounds like a good example of a parent that is involved and interested in his child's education. We need more parents like that. Not surprising, when we consider the economy has forced families to work multiple jobs, in lieu of the traditional single earner/two parent nuclear family. Now, both adults are spending their day outside the home attempting to support their family, while daycare, after school programs and other activities are used as babysitters. Additionally, the school system has migrated into an "all inclusive" program, where breakfast, lunch, and now.....dinner is served to the children. The schools not only provide the education needed for productive adult life, but are the psychological and emotional support system for the children. The system has become the de facto guardian for the offspring of the progenitor adults who are becoming the sperm/egg donors to provide the next generation of dependent citizens who will not know self -sufficiency as a viable life option either directly or by example of their parents. Citizens have become the milk cows to the federal government "farmer". Cattle. Edited January 30, 2014 by FiredMotorCompany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 The last system didn't work (NCLB), and Ted Kennedy had his hands all over it. There needs to be a better system regardless of who is in office. I do like the IB system and my kids have done well under it. How about the one that seemed to work fine until the government started meddling in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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