Ford Ditching Microsoft for Blackberry

[akirby]

If that's the source I think it is, I can corroborate what was said.

 

It is and that's all I'm saying.

[akirby]

Wescoent?

 

Nobody on BOF or known to BOF.

[theoldwizard]

From a parallel thread, several days ago

 

CONFIRMED (QNX) by a friend on the inside.

[ismo]

I read that the 2015 Fusion will have a refresh which includes an updated SYNC system, maybe with Blackberry then? I worked with Ford of Europe for 5 years and was working with them when they started implementing SYNC into the vehicles. Most of our time was then spent training the dealers on the system so they could teach the customers. I think they usually gave up and just passed on the dealer training paperwork to the customers.

[gemariah]

YES!!!!!

[coopny]

I realize I am bumping a rather old thread but I figure it is more productive to do that vs. creating a new one.
(Disclaimer: I don't work for FoMoCo or its affiliates. The below is educated speculation based on publicly available data).

I went into a nerd discussion here on what supporting evidence Ford's open source SmartDeviceLink core (basically, the brains behind what Ford brands as AppLink) provides for a switch to BlackBerry's QNX operating system. It's a bit nerdy but view it if you care about the specifics.

 

That said, as far as speculation:

• QNX and Blackberry/Future: The car platform is doing extremely well with somewhere between 40%-70% marketshare, ahead of all competitors. Most likely BlackBerry will trim its business of the fat and go lean with what is selling. Even if BlackBerry befalls a bad faith, QNX is a widely used real-time operating system in many applications. The most likely case during a BlackBerry bankruptcy is that it would be spun off or bought.
• Applink on MFT: Probably going to happen. Ford had a "Hackathon" in September inviting devs to learn about SDL/AppLink and develop apps. Ten finalists were given two months to polish their apps. The winner will be announced at the Connected Car Expo this Thursday will go with Ford to the International Consumer Electronics Show, and they will get to take part in a "feature announcement" at CES in Jan 2015. My guess is that the "Feature announcement" is about AppLink in MFT, else why bring an AppLink dev on stage. The slides (available on public internet) from that conference in September show screenshots of the MFT UI with applink, though it is scant on details.
• Update of existing vehicles to QNX: Likely. Ford has to pay licensing/support to Microsoft, to BSAFE, and potentially other parties for the original MFT system if they keep it. Re-writing the code was an expensive decision, and essentially points to saying that they believe the old system was so slow/badly developed/impossible to enhance that they would rather do it from scratch. There are guys on LinkedIn advertising publicly that they worked on the re-write of Sync from Windows Embedded for Automotive to QNX and that it would be a seamless update for the end user. Now does this include every model year that the Gen2 MFT system was ever included in?... My guess is this ties into the January announcement. Based on what I see, I would venture old systems are likely to be updated. Most references on the open source code are to a 2013 Fiesta and it requires installing QNX to run the open source code.
  • UI on existing models, if updated to QNX: Unlikely to be changed. Ford went through the trouble to copy the existing MFT UI (on Windows/presentation layer based on Adobe Flash Lite) to two technologies friendly to QNX (HTML5 and QT) in the SmartDeviceLink core.
  • UI on new models: Potentially changed. There are a couple of interfaces written in QT in the SDL core. They make distinct references to Ford features like the Vehicle Health Report, 911 Assist, etc... they are largely based on a blue and black color set very different from the current UI. I haven't set up a test environment to compile and run the UI, I've just reviewed the assets for it.
• Android Auto/Apple CarPlay: Too early to say anything. The SDL core I reviewed is for app integration against the automaker's interface and not these software company's experiences, and is not the entire MFT operating system with all components. If and when Ford makes an announcement is unknown. Ford is listed on the web pages for both Android Auto & CarPlay, and the CarPlay reference implementation is on QNX. Ford may choose to restrict this to the newer model years, or may wait to make it available until Sync Gen3 (scant references in the SDL core). Don Butler (Connected Car Chief, FMC) did say that these experiences would be alternative experiences and Sync is here to stay for when you don't want to use or don't use a smartphone, or prefer the automaker's experience. This obviously makes sense, as if the radio was a brick without an iOS or Android device, people would get ticked.

Until 2015 I wouldn't expect a peep out of Ford on these matters and I would expect any big announcement at CES. They may just outline the future support of new experiences/features rather than advertising the operating system under the hood.

[RichardJensen]

Interesting info. Thanks.

 

I would expect Ford to eventually support Android Auto and CarPlay--with some reservations.

 

My primary concern w/these screen takeover protocols is this:

 

Liability

 

If Google or Apple permit *extremely* distracting functionality on the car's LCD, Ford seems to be as likely a target for lawsuits/grandstanding plaintiff's attorneys as Apple/Google.

[coopny]

Interesting info. Thanks.

 

I would expect Ford to eventually support Android Auto and CarPlay--with some reservations.

 

My primary concern w/these screen takeover protocols is this:

 

Liability

 

If Google or Apple permit *extremely* distracting functionality on the car's LCD, Ford seems to be as likely a target for lawsuits/grandstanding plaintiff's attorneys as Apple/Google.

These third party protocols are not like MirrorLink in aftermarket receivers where we are copying whole interfaces as displayed on the smartphone screen to the phone dashboard. Both Apple and Google for round one have picked media player apps that populate a pre-made media player interface (which is the same as Ford AppLink).

Ford has an application ID system in MFT in the AppLink 2.0 API to give a unique ID per app to allow tracking of approvals and blacklisting apps if they don't meet the needs of a non-distracting HMI. Apple and Google are both talking to the NHTSA about reviewing their approaches for driver distraction, and if the automakers don't like what they're seeing, they can refuse to iterate the protocol of those experiences further (so they won't support whatever is seen as distracting) or disable support for those protocols entirely. Both Google and Apple have a revocation system built in to their application stores, so if an app is presenting a distraction (and it can't be addressed on the Android Auto API level), they can pull the app from distribution until such a time where the developer is willing to fix it to their satisfaction.

[RichardJensen]

Thanks for the backgrounder.

 

I guess, as a grouchy cynic when it comes to tech, I worry that if Ford unilaterally decides that they don't like how Google is monitoring their apps and stops upgrading/supporting Android Auto, it's going to be tough for Ford to communicate that effectively to Android users, in the face of the vocal minority that is always ready to saturate social media with angry commentary.

 

In short, they assume a lot of risk, and the only benefit is that of keeping pace with other manufacturers.

 

I'm also (cynicism kicking in again) a bit concerned about Apple and Google's willingness to work with the NHTSA. Until the NHTSA fines them, or they have to contest a lengthy/messy series of lawsuits, I don't think you'll see anything but lip service in support of reducing driver distractions by either of these companies. That's how it was with Ford before the Pinto mess, and Toyota before their drive-by-wire issues and (likely) Honda and their airbags.

 

Nonetheless, I appreciate your info. Feel free to keep sharing.

 

I am more of a web developer than a programmer. I took a look at the AppLink SDK a year ago, and couldn't figure out how to do anything useful with it.

Edited November 17, 2014 by RichardJensen

[SoonerLS]

I'm also (cynicism kicking in again) a bit concerned about Apple and Google's willingness to work with the NHTSA. Until the NHTSA fines them, or they have to contest a lengthy/messy series of lawsuits, I don't think you'll see anything but lip service in support of reducing driver distractions by either of these companies.

Apple and Google (and, reportedly, pretty much every Silicon Valley company) are notorious for their "don't bother negotiating, this is the way it is, sign the damned contract already" negotiating style. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they go up against the NHTSA and the FMVSS...

[RichardJensen]

They will bring tremendous legislative/lobbyist pressure to bear on the NHTSA, and they will employ every effort possible to cast the responsibility for 'distracted driver' accidents on the manufacturers.

 

The tech industry is, at its highest levels, as disgusting as any industry ever gets, what with its unfounded notion of exceptionalism and its dismissive attitude toward the rule of law, and even basic human dignity.

[coopny]

Thanks for the backgrounder.

 

I guess, as a grouchy cynic when it comes to tech, I worry that if Ford unilaterally decides that they don't like how Google is monitoring their apps and stops upgrading/supporting Android Auto, it's going to be tough for Ford to communicate that effectively to Android users, in the face of the vocal minority that is always ready to saturate social media with angry commentary.

 

In short, they assume a lot of risk, and the only benefit is that of keeping pace with other manufacturers.

If people base car purchase decisions on infotainment options and smartphone integration, then Ford loses sales if it becomes a breaking point. Someone can always discontinue support for something. Onstar stopped working in older GMs when they used analog modems and they finally shut those cellular networks down. Most of the API is enforced against the operating system which controls what an app can and aannot send to the car.

 

Apple doesn't share the API information publicly but seems to be limited to media player apps only in a predefined interface (other than the first party apps like maps, phone, etc.)... Google on the other hand discusses how the current Android Auto interfaces are audio apps (that provide spoken contact, like radio, or music content) and messaging apps (like whatsapp).

 

I'm not familiar with the intracices of how Android Auto renders content to the screen, but the documentation seems to indicate that the phone casts the app as video, which means it'll likely be a standard API that offshifts most of the thinking and updates to Android itself, not the car manufacturer.

[RichardJensen]

Most of the API is enforced against the operating system which controls what an app can and aannot send to the car.

 

See, to my way of thinking, the manufacturer should be able to veto an overly permissive phone/device OS. I'm not comfortable with the car's display being reduced to a dumb terminal.

 

I don't like the idea of Apple/Google getting into a feature war, with escalating features delivered through the car's display, regardless of distraction.

 

I would prefer a 'permissions' based interaction between the device and the vehicle's onboard system, where the onboard system can proactively disable any app that, for instance, broadcasts streaming video onto the vehicle's display.

 

You could have a setup screen with defaults along these lines:

 

Application type:

 

[ X ] Navigation

 

[ X ] Music / Audio (e.g. Pandora)

 

[ ] Streaming Video (e.g. Netflix)

 

[ ] Games (e.g. Angry Birds)

 

[ X ] SMS

 

[ ] Productivity (e.g. OneNote)

 

etc.....

 

Of course this would require quite a bit of cooperation between different manufacturers to implement.

Edited November 25, 2014 by RichardJensen

[coopny]

I compiled and ran the Ford SmartDeviceLink core code. I was able to compile the HTML interface (The default). The newer, different interface (based on the QT graphical framework) I was not. It seems almost inevitable that Ford announces an update including AppLink at CES in early 2015. I don't know if they will mention a change to QNX at that time, but all the evidence seems to point to it.

 

.

I need to boot my Linux virtual PC again and take screenshots of the settings - all the settings were just related to AppLink.

 

EDIT: Here is an album of screenshots from the HTML UI.

Edited November 30, 2014 by coopny

[RichardJensen]

I'm guessing Ford doesn't provide access to the screen(s) in the gauge cluster to 3rd party apps....?

[coopny]

I'm guessing Ford doesn't provide access to the screen(s) in the gauge cluster to 3rd party apps....?

They stripped those assets out of this code.

 

It's possible to extract the Adobe Flash Lite files for the current Sync 3.7 from the update files for things like the driver assist and other dashboard displays, but they display in a jumbled mess without appropriate data to feed them.