RichardJensen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 AND its capabilities may have actually taken away potential Super Duty customers....OH THE SHAME! Not likely. The F150's payload and towing are constrained by the truck itself, not the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If I read you correctly, you are saying it is a supply issue, which I agree. If you do the math, that is most likely a function of limited supply, not indicative of real significant change in demand or market dynamics. I'm definitely not arguing with you... I'm just trying to tease out the logic blind spot in the AN article. Days in inventory are affected by two things... supply and demand. You can manipulate that number by changing either lever. The industry typically views 45 to 60 days supply in inventory as optimal but on high volume products like fullsize pickup, Ford, GM, and FCA all maintain something closer to 70 or 80 days inventory because it provides more flexibility. FCA has not released the actual sales number of the diesel 1500 so we can only speculate. But we know the upper limit for 2014 model year is 10,000 units over about 7 actual months of production (March to September), so that's an average of 1,428 units per month. If you assume a slow ramp up in production (typical), it's possible that there is basically only maybe 1,000 units in dealer stock now. That sounds like limited supply to me, not unmet demand. When October or November rolls around and FCA has 5,000 units in inventory, the days sales in inventory may go up to 70 days. Exactly. The days' inventoryis really a measure of how MUCH or how little EcoDiesel inventory is on the lots, not how how fast it moves. If you have big selection of other Rams, deep inventory, and slow market conditions you'll have long spells before the truck sells. If you have a slim selection of EcoDiesels 1500's, colors, or options, you have short time on the lot because demand even in soft markets will scoop them up. What would be much more useful is to see sales numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If Ford was seriously considering a smallish diesel for F150, why on earth would Ford then go off and develop another smaller Ecoboost V6 specifically for F150? No, I'm thinking that Ford looked at a V8 diesel for F150 purely as a benchmark for developing better Ecoboost V6 engines - Yes, there are sales in a diesel half ton but there are far, far more sales available in delivering even more efficient gasoline engines, that market is huge and small changes reap huge rewards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If Ford was seriously considering a smallish diesel for F150, why on earth would Ford then go off and develop another smaller Ecoboost V6 specifically for F150? No, I'm thinking that Ford looked at a V8 diesel for F150 purely as a benchmark for developing better Ecoboost V6 engines - Yes, there are sales in a diesel half ton but there are far, far more sales available in delivering even more efficient gasoline engines, that market is huge and small changes reap huge rewards. easy answer, sales numbers, diesels ( due to the inherent upcharge ) would be $5000 more and would only appeal to the die hards, but fact is thoose die hards are there...and I believe would probably rather buy a Diesel F-150 than tha Ram OR an over the top 60k Superduty. I think fords thinking is based on their market analysis, think back to the Explorer uproar.."WHAT?, it can only tow 5000lbs????"...well their research indicated that towing only happened less than 5% of the time....same can be said for the eco engines, when not towing economy is fine, and occasional towing and the inherent bad mileage is but a small sacrifice compared with the initial cost of a diesel alternative. But, there ARE the tow happy diehards that would jump at the diesels superiority because they tow all the time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Let's see who has the real hit a year from now. 2.7L next gen F-150 or the ED refresh Ram. It's got to be the Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Let's see who has the real hit a year from now. 2.7L next gen F-150 or the ED refresh Ram. It's got to be the Ford. agreed.....for obvious reasons Ive already outlined ( cost and people that only tow periodically ) however, I dont think a diesel would hurt in the slightest....and would only improve image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Not likely. The F150's payload and towing are constrained by the truck itself, not the engine. theres already F-150s rated higher towing than Superduties, and come 2015 with weight savings that 11300 may even improve... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Not likely. The F150's payload and towing are constrained by the truck itself, not the engine. interesting...the only real difference between a 250 and 350 is the rear springs........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 shoot, I hit 20000 posts and didnt know it...get a life Dean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Let's see who has the real hit a year from now. 2.7L next gen F-150 or the ED refresh Ram. It's got to be the Ford. The real question is whether 2.7 EB will grow sales or simply replace some of those 3.5 EB and 5.0 V8 sales. I'm betting that Ford is counting on the former and that f150's volume is set to increase which in itself will give Ford another dilemma, how to produce even more F150s.. I'm not anti-F150 diesel, I simply see Ford trying to maximize sales with 2.7 EB first before considering a diesel. Edited July 9, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 shoot, I hit 20000 posts and didnt know it...get a life Dean... Yeah, man, I thought you had a job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Yeah, man, I thought you had a job... He does, selling diesel powered F150s... Edited July 9, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 interesting...the only real difference between a 250 and 350 is the rear springs........... Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yeah, man, I thought you had a job... everyone coming in lately wants a diesel F-150......DOH! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) everyone coming in lately wants a diesel F-150......DOH! lol I wonder if that's occurring across a lot of Ford's dealer network or just regional pockets.... Edited July 9, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 He does, selling diesel powered F150s... hell right now we seem to have a shortage of everythinfg, F-150s, Edges with Vista roofs ( commodity issue ).....etc etc ...J, curious, whats the tow rating for a 2wd diesel Aus Ranger?...open up THAT can of worms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) hell right now we seem to have a shortage of everythinfg, F-150s, Edges with Vista roofs ( commodity issue ).....etc etc ...J, curious, whats the tow rating for a 2wd diesel Aus Ranger?...open up THAT can of worms... maxes out at 7,000 lbs but i suspect that is down to Ranger's lighter weight, payload with a pickup body is around 2600 lbs. maybe Transit is a better comparo.. Is Ford potentially looking at an explosion if F150 sales with the right combinations? God I hope so... Edited July 9, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 maxes out at 7,000 lbs but i suspect that is down to Ranger's lighter weight, payload with a pickup body is around 2600 lbs. maybe Transit is a better comparo.. Is Ford potentially looking at an explosion if F150 sales with the right combinations? God I hope so... Im intrigued for sure, I think the 2.7 is a great move, but much like Aluminum I think initially it will take time to be embraced.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 maxes out at 7,000 lbs but i suspect that is down to Ranger's lighter weight, payload with a pickup body is around 2600 lbs. maybe Transit is a better comparo.. Is Ford potentially looking at an explosion if F150 sales with the right combinations? God I hope so... my guess is the same engine in the F-150 would have approx 9000lb towing....not a bad combo IMO, especially if when towing mileage hovers around 20......( guess ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 my guess is the same engine in the F-150 would have approx 9000lb towing....not a bad combo IMO, especially if when towing mileage hovers around 20......( guess ) You aren't going to tow 9k lb and get 20 MPG. It ain't gonna happen unless your trip down hill. The bad thing about smaller engines, the more load you put behind them, the less efficient they are. Doesn't matter if they are gassers or diesels. Towing 9k lbs, you would likely get better (or at least similar) fuel economy towing with a 6.7L PowerStroke than with a 3.2L diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) You aren't going to tow 9k lb and get 20 MPG. It ain't gonna happen unless your trip down hill. The bad thing about smaller engines, the more load you put behind them, the less efficient they are. Doesn't matter if they are gassers or diesels. Towing 9k lbs, you would likely get better (or at least similar) fuel economy towing with a 6.7L PowerStroke than with a 3.2L diesel. Ive got guys getting 18 with the 6.7.....and Im hearing 10-12 with the eco V6..... Edited July 9, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Ive got guys getting 18 with the 6.7.....and Im hearing 10-12 with the eco V6..... Towing 9k lbs? Guess they forgot to tell you that was from the mountain down to the valley? I could see 10-12 with the eco V6 if the 9k lbs are not in the form of an enclosed trailer that catches loads of wind. I won't believe 18MPG towing 9k lbs with the 6.7L unless I see it first hand. 14? yes. 18? no way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Ive got guys getting 18 with the 6.7.....and Im hearing 10-12 with the eco V6..... Context matters. If both guys are towing roughly the same amount of weight, of course, the 6.7's going to get better mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Context matters. If both guys are towing roughly the same amount of weight, of course, the 6.7's going to get better mileage. yet displacement is close to double....the point is Diesel is more efficient towing....no getting around that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Towing 9k lbs? Guess they forgot to tell you that was from the mountain down to the valley? I could see 10-12 with the eco V6 if the 9k lbs are not in the form of an enclosed trailer that catches loads of wind. I won't believe 18MPG towing 9k lbs with the 6.7L unless I see it first hand. 14? yes. 18? no way! nope, local boys....contractors by day, Havasu with toy trailers by weekends...the other plus is they say they dont even realize theres a trauiler behind them and pull the grapevine fine ( read STEEP ) Edited July 9, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.