ANTAUS Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/11/ford-patent-11-speed-transmission/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 None of these transmissions impress me, the cars they're in only get 30 to 45 MPG. What happened to the free wheeling clutches like on my wife's 96 Nissan 5-speed Sentra? I could get 52 MPG with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Look at the curb weight of that Sentra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Look at the curb weight of that Sentra. .... and the styling was so plain on 1996 Sentra's that air molecules ran away from them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Look at the curb weight of that Sentra. Curb weight doesn't matter anymore, right Richard, desn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Out of context, a weight variance of ~10% does not make that much difference to economy but go to 20% or more and the gains are there to be seen, especially in heavier vehicles. You would think that European manufacturers would be on the verge of switching to lighter materials like Aluminum to take cars back to weights common 20 years ago but with modern power trains. All of which is linked to the effect fuel economy has on the buyer, going from 15 mpg to 20 mpg gas a much greater effect than going from 40 mpg to 45 mpg... Edited April 12, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Mass has an effect in city MPG, when the engine must move that extra mass. exmaple would be the fiesta and Focus SFE with the EB1.0 Even with the 5-speed the Fiesta beats the more aerodynamic but heavier Focus in economy. 31-43 vs 30/42 the lesson I have learned is that more gears are less valuable in lighter cars. Lets not confuse the span of ratios with number of gears because they are not always connected. I'd say the optimum number of gears for C-car is 7, and for a B-car is 6 Edited April 12, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Curb weight doesn't matter anymore, right Richard, desn? It's not that it doesn't matter, it's that it's not as important as other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Mass has an effect in city MPG, when the engine must move that extra mass. exmaple would be the fiesta and Focus SFE with the EB1.0 Even with the 5-speed the Fiesta beats the more aerodynamic but heavier Focus in economy. 31-43 vs 30/42 No one is arguing that, 1 mpg difference when you have a comparative weight difference of ~300 lbs proves the point. that weight does play a part in fuel economy but not necessarily as much in lighter compacts and sub compacts... As soon as hybrid electrification is applied, those city mileages would increase by at least 40%. Edited April 12, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I have to say that the last 9speed Chrysler I drove was fantastic in all situations. Because of all the gears when I needed just medium level of acceleration, it kicked down just enough to give me torque without the high-revving buzz (I could ask for more and get the true buzzy kickdown, but...). It was a very satisfying, and luxurious feeling. It was similar to hybrids -- you are accelerating, but the engine is not punishing your ears for it. With that, I am looking for ford to add FIVE more gears to its 6speed. Also curb weight ... Ford would do well to pay attention in their cars (and I mean cars, not trucks), all of them are a bit portly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 And as Biker just proved an extra gear ratio can help level the playing field wher one vehicle is slightly heavier than the other. The new Malibu is ~300 lbs lighter than Fusion and gets 8-speed auto transmissions but the economy is not all that much better. I'm betting thta 10 or 11-speed auto will be a huge advantage to 2,7 EB in F150, the truck is fantastic now with a 6-speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Ford would do well to pay attention in their cars (and I mean cars, not trucks), all of them are a bit portly. I think you can find much of the Fusion's portliness explained here: http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/102289-ford-mondeo-kerb-weight-1557kg/?p=1128786 1625kg "mass in service" less 75kg driver + 'stuff' (officially "tools") to correspond (roughly) to US legal curb weight of ~3,410lbs on a 2.0L Diesel Mondeo Titanium, which is not far off the 3,427lbs of the 2014 Fusion Titanium (both FWD). Ford may be able to take 200lbs off the Fusion when they transition to the next generation of the platform, but I don't think they can take it out of this one. Edited April 12, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Customers are not demanding higher fuel economy from Fusion at the moment an of course the hybrids are there for those seeking more economy. Newer gearboxes may be enough to satisfy buyers until the next product cycle. Edited April 12, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I think you can find much of the Fusion's portliness explained here: http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/102289-ford-mondeo-kerb-weight-1557kg/?p=1128786 1625kg "mass in service" less 75kg driver + 'stuff' (officially "tools") to correspond (roughly) to US legal curb weight of ~3,410lbs on a 2.0L Diesel Mondeo Titanium, which is not far off the 3,427lbs of the 2014 Fusion Titanium (both FWD). Ford may be able to take 200lbs off the Fusion when they transition to the next generation of the platform, but I don't think they can take it out of this one. You are comparing the diesel Mondeo to the EB1.5 fusion. That's not an apples to apples comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) I think you can find much of the Fusion's portliness explained here: http://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/102289-ford-mondeo-kerb-weight-1557kg/?p=1128786 1625kg "mass in service" less 75kg driver + 'stuff' (officially "tools") to correspond (roughly) to US legal curb weight of ~3,410lbs on a 2.0L Diesel Mondeo Titanium, which is not far off the 3,427lbs of the 2014 Fusion Titanium (both FWD). Ford may be able to take 200lbs off the Fusion when they transition to the next generation of the platform, but I don't think they can take it out of this one. it's always easiest to take weigh out at complete rebuild. The curred CD4 datas back to the 2004 C1 Focus / Mazda3 / Volvo S40 ... The new MkIV Focus is coming, I hope they did their homework, and gave the C1/C2 a good once over. I feel that Mazda's Skyaktiv, really bumped up the bar in terms of engineering prowess, light weight, and looks. the new VW MGB seems also off to agood start, and let's not forget that TOYOTA (after 25 years) is bringing out a whole new modular FWD platform for Corolla and Camry. It may be a let down, but it also may be a revolution I sure hope Ford is not caught flatfooted. If they failed to foresee this, I would almost rather see MkIV Focus and MkIII Fusion soldier on based on the same underpinning for one more top-hat, than have a mediocre platform for the next 2 top-hat generations. After all, the next Focus will once again underpin everything from Focus, to Explorer, to Escape, to Taurus. For 15 years or so. Edited April 12, 2015 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 You are comparing the diesel Mondeo to the EB1.5 fusion. That's not an apples to apples comparison. It's not. But I don't think that you're looking at a major weight difference, as the JV 6 probably weighs more than the transmission in the Mondeo (which is the DCT, IIRC), offsetting some of the weight difference between the diesel & gas engine blocks, as well as any additional diesel emissions equip. Also, I *think* the 2014 Fusion did not have the 1.5EB. I think the base Titanium engine was the 2.0L EB. But I'm not sure about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) The Mondeo 5-Door 1.5 EB Auto is 1505 Kg......~3300 lbs The diesel version is around 75 Kg heavier.....ebrochures and specs HERE The 5-door hatch is around 100 lbs heavier than a sedan, so a Euro Mondeo sedan would have been around 3200 lbs. It's pretty obvious that the added weight in Fusion is mostly ue to different crash protection needs, maybe this is an area wher a "clean sheet" in the frontal crash protection areas could save even more weight. Edited April 12, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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