JDPower Vehicle Dependability Study

[Pioneer]

Brand new ones? Is it a hard to find material defect?

My dad worked Tool and Die for 40 years at Woodhaven. He tells me, with the new dies mostly coming from China, they come in so screwed up that Ford pays more to fix them for launch issues than they cost to initially produce.

[Biker16]

My dad worked Tool and Die for 40 years at Woodhaven. He tells me, with the new dies mostly coming from China, they come in so screwed up that Ford pays more to fix them for launch issues than they cost to initially produce.

 

that is the same logic used to justfiy letting Defects out of the plant, and paying Dealers to fix them later.

[Pioneer]

 

that is the same logic used to justfiy letting Defects out of the plant, and paying Dealers to fix them later.

Both actions come out of a different budget. The bean counters are happy.

[akirby]

 

Why didn't they learn from the disastrous launches in 2000-2002? what is going to prevent it from happening again in 2022?

 

The my coworkers 2015 edge is not perfect, has a fit and finish issue in that the rear door won't shut properly. something so simple should not happen in 2015.

 

Did I say the 2015 Edge was perfect or that there wasn't still room for improvement?

 

2000 was a completely different leadership team than 2012-2013. The Fusion launch in 2005 was very smooth (I bought one) and quality from Hermosillo from 2005-2012 was flawless.

 

The 2008 downturn forced a lot of cutbacks in engineering and other areas. It's hard to replace experience.

 

I also think the cost savings to be realized from consolidating Focus, Escape and Fusion platforms with their Euro counterparts was so big that they made a conscious decision to sacrifice quality rather than delay the projects. It's hard to say whether it was worth it without knowing the actuall $$$s.

 

There is no reason to do that now so if we see the same thing happening going forward then it's a different issue. I'm more concerned about day to day factory issues that seem to be happening more frequently. Edges are still being held at the factory for weeks at a time with no explanation. And we're a year into the new model. Not sure if that's happening across the board or if it's isolated to the gen2 Edge but as a potential 2016 Edge owner it's not giving me a warm and fuzzy.

 

My 2013 Fusion has several small annoying issues and at least 3 recalls. But I knew going in that might be the case and I accepted it rather than wait a year. I'm not giving Edge the same pass.

[akirby]

Both actions come out of a different budget. The bean counters are happy.

 

That's where upper mgt needs to step in and do a TCO at the corporate level, not at an individual budget level. Just like both NA and Europe each had a positive business case (theoretically) for building separate vehicles. But combining them on a common platform saves the company a lot more and yields a lot more overall profit. But if you leave the decision up to each BU they'll almost always choose the one that's best for them and not necessarily what's best for the company.

 

I thought Mulally changed that way of thinking.

[jasonj80]

 

 

I thought Mulally changed that way of thinking.

Perceived Job security and how big can I make my department to make me look important never goes away in any organization, it might get hidden but to some people (usually the ones that get promoted to their level of incompetence) it is right below the surface.

[akirby]

True - if management allows that to happen. I had a VP back in the day who demanded we do what's right for the company and he reinforced that with all of his subordinates and the entire organization. He didn't care how it affected his org because he felt there were always other jobs to be done (and back then it was true). It was refreshing - you always knew the right answer and you never got in trouble as long as you tried to do what was right for the company and followed the processes.

 

Now I know that he was a rare bird, but I think Mulally had a lot of those same qualities. We'll see how Fields works out.

[Pioneer]

I thought Mulally changed that way of thinking.

I wish I could share half of the screwed up things I've seen on the 552 launch that weren't a problem on the 415 and 221 launches. But with my luck, it would be traced back to me and I'd lose my job.

[akirby]

I wish I could share half of the screwed up things I've seen on the 552 launch that weren't a problem on the 415 and 221 launches. But with my luck, it would be traced back to me and I'd lose my job.

 

Considering the magnitude of the changes with both the vehicle and the factory I'm not surprised. They hid it pretty well from the public.

[BORG]

The problem here is that Ford is not the only one who launches new products, what might be different in Ford's case is their desire to truly globalize mainstream products which is somewhat rare in an industry that still thinks regionally and doesn't have the global footprint of Ford. This might have been a mistake in some areas (Focus in particular) which is a very good example of a global product not meeting the needs of all regions. EcoSport is another which has left Ford absent in a growth segment for Europe and the US. So much of these 'quality' problems is Ford making decisions to sacrifice certain regional expectations for better globalized cost efficiency. I don't want to give them too much credit for making it sound like they are intentionally underachieving to improve the bottom-line, but it may explain many of the growing pains the company is suffering from and why much of their work is yielding better profits but not more growth (unless your name is F-150). But once their new systems are in place, they may be able to reiterate on products to better service the US market, it takes a very long time to cycle through these things and 2011/12 wasn't that long ago.

Edited February 29, 2016 by BORG

[akirby]

I don't see that as an excuse for continuing quality problems on established products but I do believe that was a part of the global platform consolidations a few years ago.

 

Anybody who works IT in a large corporation understands these tradeoffs are made every day between time to market and time to implement cost savings versus quality. If the savings are big enough they're willing to take a lot more risks.

[T-bird]

Well at least one NA manufacturer made a vehicle in the top 10.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/03/19/these-two-automakers-absolutely-dominated-the-list.aspx?source=yahoo-2&utm_campaign=article&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=yahoo-2