Want to turn ford around in the US?

[Hemiman]

A quote of Bill Ford from this Way Forward version 3.

Translated, "Our expensive ass SUV's and pickups aren't selling worth a damn because gas is expensive and we didn't bother to have any sedans or econo cars worth buying because we let the whole segment languish years ago so now we are playing catch up."

 

 

Not sure if I agree here. Seems to me that Ford anticipated a move away from SUV's. Hence the 500 & Freestyle. They offer the SUV like driving position and even better interior volume, and much better fuel economy. Considering that the design must have started 4 or 5 years ago, Ford was ahead (just barely) of the shift from SUV's. The marketing of these cars has been horrid. I have yet to see a commercial that explians the advantages of these cars.

 

1. Great Fuel economy

 

2. Huge interior volume

 

3. The best AWD system on the market.

 

4. Best in class safety

 

Bland styling ensured that these cars wouldn't be "discovered" by chance. However, a good marketing campaign could have overcome this. $3.oo a gallon gas should have played right into Ford's hands here. The dealers should have been overrun with faimilies looking to trade out of thier "gas hog" SUV's to the 500, Montigo, or Freestyle.

 

Still could, if Ford would advertise these cars correctly.

Edited September 18, 2006 by Hemiman

[ZanatWork]

There you go Richard,,,,,keep rooting for the last placed team. Ford sucks. Period.

 

Who gives a shit about what hits the market first. The Zeph/MKZ is doing fine without the 3.5. I highly doubt sales will increase drastically due to the better engine. The 500 triplets need more attention than a better than expected Zeph. The Zeph, in my opinion is getting way too much attention. If they can tweak the car within a year of release, than yes, its getting too much attention. Not to mention, its no where near the sales numbers of the triplets so why is Ford so determined to focus on the low volume vehicles and neglect the higher selling ones?

 

 

 

Wow, that initial statement shows a mind welded shut...and horribly limited.

 

And the triplets are essentially selling at Ford's capacity to produce them, at present. The Zeph/MKZ IS one of the triplets, and often outsells it s lower priced sibleing, the Milan.

 

Translated, "Our expensive ass SUV's and pickups aren't selling worth a damn because gas is expensive and we didn't bother to have any sedans or econo cars worth buying because we let the whole segment languish years ago so now we are playing catch up."

 

 

HAR! The "Expensive" SUVs and pickups that are usually available for average new car cost? The "expensive" models that are usually priced in the less-expensive areas of their respective markets?

 

sixcav is still spinning absolute b.s. into...well, strings of b.s.

 

Compare an new Explorer to a similarly configured 4Runner/Tahoe/Durango sometime. Ditto, try the same with an Expedition.

 

Ford has had problems, but vehicle price is NOT one I see mentioned by anyone other than sixcav.

[Guest Sixcav]

Oh goodie, the "Ford Excuse Department" has finally showed up. Welcom zan.

[ZanatWork]

Oh goodie, the "Ford Excuse Department" has finally showed up. Welcom zan.

 

Would you care-just ONCE-to back up the "price" thing? It's been pointed out 9by myself and others, repeatedly) that Ford's pricing is often in the "value" end of any given vehcicle market, so I'd love for you to explain the "expensive" thing.

 

But back it up. I've looked at Explorer/Expedition/Escape/truck pricing vs. the competition, and I have NO idea why you keep insisting Fords are "expensive"...unless you feel that way about every car company save Kia. In that case, you should state "MOST (instead of just Ford) trucks/SUVs are expensive".

 

I'm not making excuses if your points have no points. Back 'em.

[Guest Sixcav]

Ok, here it is Zana. Cars are too damned expensive period. You can call it a matter of personal opinion if you like but since everyone I know here agrees that cars are just too damned expensive I think it's a well shared opinion. If enough people agree that todays cars are not worth what car companies are asking for them then by default they are probably too expensive. What you want to hear is that I'm bitching about Ford, because that suits your silly need to pick a fight. What I'm saying is that cars all over are too expensive, not just Ford, but everyone, with the exception of a few companies like say Hyundai and the like. That's really just it man. I understand your point of view because I pointed out the prices on just Ford cars. So you take that to mean I'm singling out Ford and trying to say they are more expensive than say Toyota or GM. Not the case. Their shit is too damned expensive too. When you have cars depreciating 10 or 12 thousand dollars as soon as you drive off the lot doesn't that tell you something? When every 3 months or so all these guys have to throw big sales with thousands off and 0% for however long and free gas for the rest of your life or whatever doesn't that tell you that maybe they are pricing the shit too high? Right now Tahoe's where I live are selling for 14 thousand off MSRP. 14 thousand dude. If they can afford to knock 14 grand off the price, they obviously were rippng our asses off to begin with. So I don't need to back it up with some side by side comparison. Why compare one expensive ass overpriced SUV to another. My point is I think if Ford could knock some $$$ off their expensive overpriced stuff they would beat the other guys who are also selling their expensive overpriced stuff. You really believe it cost's Ford anywhere near 37 grand to make and deliver an Expedition? No way. There's a guy that works with me, he makes 86 grand a year and really likes the Lincoln LS, that is until he got to the Lincoln dealership. Now here's a guy who easily could afford a brand new Lincoln LS right? But he's a smart rascal and when he took a look at the price tag he said "No way, that's too much money for what you get." So instead he purchased a used LS with only about 20 thousand miles on it. So there it is in a nutshell. I don't need to justify to you or anyone else that cars are too expensive, you can go to the lots and see for yourself. I don't care that Ford's stuff is just as equally expensive as everyone elses expensive shit. It's all overpriced in my estimation. Now you may proceed with your excuses.

[Guest Sixcav]

Chirpping crickets zana?

[Hitchhiker]

Ok, here it is Zana. Cars are too damned expensive period. You can call it a matter of personal opinion if you like but since everyone I know here agrees that cars are just too damned expensive I think it's a well shared opinion. If enough people agree that todays cars are not worth what car companies are asking for them then by default they are probably too expensive. What you want to hear is that I'm bitching about Ford, because that suits your silly need to pick a fight. What I'm saying is that cars all over are too expensive, not just Ford, but everyone, with the exception of a few companies like say Hyundai and the like. That's really just it man. I understand your point of view because I pointed out the prices on just Ford cars. So you take that to mean I'm singling out Ford and trying to say they are more expensive than say Toyota or GM. Not the case. Their shit is too damned expensive too. When you have cars depreciating 10 or 12 thousand dollars as soon as you drive off the lot doesn't that tell you something? When every 3 months or so all these guys have to throw big sales with thousands off and 0% for however long and free gas for the rest of your life or whatever doesn't that tell you that maybe they are pricing the shit too high? Right now Tahoe's where I live are selling for 14 thousand off MSRP. 14 thousand dude. If they can afford to knock 14 grand off the price, they obviously were rippng our asses off to begin with. So I don't need to back it up with some side by side comparison. Why compare one expensive ass overpriced SUV to another. My point is I think if Ford could knock some $$$ off their expensive overpriced stuff they would beat the other guys who are also selling their expensive overpriced stuff. You really believe it cost's Ford anywhere near 37 grand to make and deliver an Expedition? No way. There's a guy that works with me, he makes 86 grand a year and really likes the Lincoln LS, that is until he got to the Lincoln dealership. Now here's a guy who easily could afford a brand new Lincoln LS right? But he's a smart rascal and when he took a look at the price tag he said "No way, that's too much money for what you get." So instead he purchased a used LS with only about 20 thousand miles on it. So there it is in a nutshell. I don't need to justify to you or anyone else that cars are too expensive, you can go to the lots and see for yourself. I don't care that Ford's stuff is just as equally expensive as everyone elses expensive shit. It's all overpriced in my estimation. Now you may proceed with your excuses.

 

Especially with the amount of overseas production of the parts from which they are assembled.

 

It would be a little different if all production was done in the US by Americans!

 

At least then I would know that maybe my neighbors were earning a living from it.

 

:shrug:

[bri719]

Perhaps you haven't heard about this:

 

http://www.fordvehicles.com/features/news/...dex.asp?id=1540

 

All 2007 Ford's are coming with a 5-year, 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. The 60/60 was the best powertrain warranty of any full-line manufacturer until last week when GM announced their 60/100 warranty. But the 60/60 is longer than Toyota, Honda, Chrysler, & Nissan.

 

 

heh but they're still running the ads that say they're the best - well might as well, they're paid for. I do wonder how long they could legally get away with that but to their credit GM simply decided they wouldn't be outdone and quickly reacted. I don't think they could have seen that coming when they wrote the advertising.

 

besides, I wouldn't buy the GM equivalent if it was 20 years and 1,000,000 miles. so who cares :shrug:

 

"I just think that the so called "failure" of the triplets could have been "forgotten" about had the update been at least the debut of the 3.5. "

 

IN this day of gas prices goin up/down/up? Real car buyers are not clamoring for HP, like the "Boy Racers" and Magazine Spec sheet fanatics.

 

80% of Camrys are 4 bangers, and there is no big 'cult' attached to the V6 cars. Another point, the "faster" Honda Accord V6 Hybrid is a flop, since the buyers dont care about speed and burnouts.

 

Ford planned more V6 Fusion cars, but reality is more I4's sold. Even if the 3.5 was ready, it would have sold as well as the 3.0.

 

Again, only the spec sheet racers are still thinking there is a HP race in the family sedan market.

 

More important than gettting a "Hot Rod" Fusion out is getting a Hybrid version on the market.

 

 

great point, it sounds like fiction but it really is true, especially as commuter cars and small getaround vehicles in cities but also for buyers young and old alike in middle america. and your "average" "boring" "appliance car" buyer who doesn't care a rats ass about status let alone HP. I see more and more of them and even though I definitely live in a status-conscious area and where you see people trying to show off the power of their car these are probably 20-25% of the vehicles that are actualy on the road here.

 

gas is now back down to almost-normal levels pre-Katrina and the rest, and yet people are still clamoring hand-over fist going gaga and drooling over the smartest 4 banger or hybrid out there. it seems like automakers always lag a tiny bit behind the trends but what is also true is the trends also lag behind the reality of gas prices. AFTER they've gone up and start going back down is when demand for hybrids and gas sippers will be lowest. once the price rebounds and starts going up, is when SUVs or large sedans are bound to become hip again. pretty goofy but by and large people are sheep and also not necessarily as smart as some often give them credit for.

 

Not sure if I agree here. Seems to me that Ford anticipated a move away from SUV's. Hence the 500 & Freestyle. They offer the SUV like driving position and even better interior volume, and much better fuel economy. Considering that the design must have started 4 or 5 years ago, Ford was ahead (just barely) of the shift from SUV's. The marketing of these cars has been horrid. I have yet to see a commercial that explians the advantages of these cars.

 

1. Great Fuel economy

 

2. Huge interior volume

 

3. The best AWD system on the market.

 

4. Best in class safety

 

Bland styling ensured that these cars wouldn't be "discovered" by chance. However, a good marketing campaign could have overcome this. $3.oo a gallon gas should have played right into Ford's hands here. The dealers should have been overrun with faimilies looking to trade out of thier "gas hog" SUV's to the 500, Montigo, or Freestyle.

 

Still could, if Ford would advertise these cars correctly.

 

 

you're on track (mostly), but 6 months ago I can honestly say I'd never seen a single Freestyle on the road and barely a 500 or Fusion. and it wasn't for a lack of looking or getting around. now I see a Freestyle every couple of days, a significant number of Fusions, and even a 500 or two.

 

they need to push forward with the planned refreshes and really kick up the marketing, but I've been saying the ads has sucked for years. it's going to take more time and a more targeted effort to really get the 500 caught up with these other two let alone in the same arena as the big sellers

[J-150]

A quote of Bill Ford from this Way Forward version 3.

Translated, "Our expensive ass SUV's and pickups aren't selling worth a damn because gas is expensive and we didn't bother to have any sedans or econo cars worth buying because we let the whole segment languish years ago so now we are playing catch up."

 

 

 

let me say this again....

 

 

10 years ago, NO ONE was saying to divert money from money making trucks to low margin econo cars. Anyone that thought that way was branded a retard.

 

Amazing how hindsight is 20/20. All of you armchair CEOs blasting the lack of car development... what was your position on cars 10 years ago?

 

 

Likewise, Toyota, Nissan and Honda.... all very late to the truck game. Just in time to see the segment contract. Yeah, those Japanese. They had it figured out too. Just like the Americans, Japanese trucks are nothing but margin. So for every slam against Ford, GM and Chrsler on cars also requires a slam onthe Japanese 3 for not hitting trucks in time.

 

 

So lets not write revisisionist history please. You hypocrites know exactly where you stood 10 years ago. No sense lying about it now.

Edited September 19, 2006 by J-150

[ZanatWork]

My point is I think if Ford could knock some $$$ off their expensive overpriced stuff they would beat the other guys who are also selling their expensive overpriced stuff. You really believe it cost's Ford anywhere near 37 grand to make and deliver an Expedition? No way. There's a guy that works with me, he makes 86 grand a year and really likes the Lincoln LS, that is until he got to the Lincoln dealership. Now here's a guy who easily could afford a brand new Lincoln LS right? But he's a smart rascal and when he took a look at the price tag he said "No way, that's too much money for what you get." So instead he purchased a used LS with only about 20 thousand miles on it. So there it is in a nutshell.

 

So say THE INDUSTRY instead of bitching straight at Ford, and you'll be much clearer.

 

As for the "just hack thousands off"...as profit is painfully down right now, explain how hacking the top end while already suffering at the bottom end is any kind of a solution.

[retro-man]

let me say this again....

10 years ago, NO ONE was saying to divert money from money making trucks to low margin econo cars. Anyone that thought that way was branded a retard.

I was. (both of those things) Still am.

[06StangAwesomecar]

 

 

That is the problem in a nutshell. I really have no bias against fords cars because I have not owned a single one. Only toyotas.... and they have spoiled me with nearly zero issues on cheap cars for 14 years.

 

 

I wasnt going to comment but nuthuggers like this, :shrug:

 

Has never owned a Ford , bashes them and has all the answers. How about actually going out and DRIVING ONE. What about all the people that have owned domestics that have had zero issues. They must all be lying right?

You probaly believe the goverment was responsible for 9-11. People like you crack me up, drive imports think your above everybody, brag about owning a import, bash domestic, then admit you have Never owned one. Unbelievable. How about owning one and see how it goes.

[Guest Sixcav]

Agree 06Stang, the man is not objective at all. I especially liked it when he started trying to claim that Toyotas are cheaper than Fords. I've owned two of the damn things and I can testify first hand they are not cheaper by any means. Toyota likes to make as much stuff as they can an option on their cars and then charge you out the ass for those options. On my 1999 Tacoma Pre-Runner the fucking clock was an option!!! The clock guys!!! That's ridiculous. Additionally I can't speak for Toyota dealers everywhere but I can tell you that service department at the one where I live was horrible. It took them 4 times to fix a damn plastic seat shroud along the bottom of the seat. When my brake light started to come on I took it by there because I couldn't figure out what was making it light up and then go off. I had checked the master cylinder resevoir and it was at normal level. But when I would turn to the left it would light up. They said my brakes were just dirty and needed to be cleaned. Charged me $40 dollars. I picked up the truck, drove off the lot, turned left, light came on. I was livid. I got home and added a teaspoon of brake fluid, problem solved. It was just barely low enough to dip down and hit the sensor when I would turn left and that was the whole issue. They were a pathetic dealership, their service managers had attitudes, when I bought the damn truck I had to go in the showroom and hunt around for a few minutes to actually find a salesman. I guess they really believe the damn things sell themselves. I'll never buy a Toyota again so long as I live here because the dealership is just pathetically miserable and frankly in my ownership I didn't see that they were any better than Ford or GM. My Tacoma spent far more time in the service department then my Mustang has. In fact the Mustang has never had a service issue, just routine maintenance.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Sixcav

[Guest Sixcav]

let me say this again....

 

 

10 years ago, NO ONE was saying to divert money from money making trucks to low margin econo cars. Anyone that thought that way was branded a retard.

 

Hey I was pissed when they dumped the Probe, I thought it was a stupid thing to do. I was pissed when they dumped the 4 seater thunderbird. I thought it was still a good car. I was pissed when they came out with the 1996 Taurus because it looked like a can of smashed assholes. But it was obvious that Ford wanted to sell BIG TRUCKS and BIG SUV'S!! lol. I never cared for the damn things. People would go buy a damn Ford Explorer because they said they didn't like station wagons. Fools, a 2WD Explorer is nothing but a station wagon. They would say they didn't want Minivans because of the soccer Mom stigma attached to minivans. But within a year or two somewhere around 95 or 96 I guess the SUV just became the new soccer mom vehicle so you didn't really get away from any stigma girls. Minivans made more sense anyway from the standpoint of carrying kids around. They are closer to the ground and have more interior room. But of course they are overpriced all to hell and gone. (Have to get my signatory jab in there) So yes, even back in the day there were plenty of us that were upset that Ford was piling the eggs in the Pickup and SUV basket. Now all I can say is "It's your bed Ford, take a nap."

[shrewd]

Anyone can have a bad dealer.

 

Look I guess you are happy with yours. Good for you, you are not in the market for a new car though... I am. There is absolutely no competition at this point in the small car market. Ford has no place in it. If they want new buyers they can either do something to attract us, or they can just watch us buy imports or another brand.

 

To Stang, you could not be less correct. It has nothing at all to do with foreign or domestic. Though with ford closing all its plants in North America it is hard to tell what truely is domestic anymore. As a matter of fact the best driving car I have driven so far in test drives is the Pontiac G5 (Chevy Cobalt rebadged). I would buy that car easy if it were not for the massive amount of horror stories about an issue chevy has NO IDEA what even the problem is with the front end. From what I have read on that car... if you are turning and go over a bump a large series of knocks starts comming out of the front end... It is a COMMON known issue though most dealers try to sell it to the public as "normal", and GM has replaced like crap loads of the front ends of these cars... (all struts, springs, the steering column, the master cylinder, etc... ) attempting to determine the solution... and has YET (over a year later) to come up with one... then they said, they are not going to continue to try to fix it until they actually have a workable solution... so everyone driving a cobalt or g5 has to just live with it... Hello... not me. Yeah sure spend 19k on a car that no one has a clue what an issue is with a years time to fix it... yeah right.

 

These are the types of issues I am speaking of that make buyers think twice about buying "domestic" as you call it. I was looking at the Chevy GTO as well... would that be Domestic? being built entirely in Australia? So get off the red state blue state dance.

[ZanatWork]

I'd think that being pissed at Ford for decade-old problems shows fantastically bad aim. Here's some names you should know:

 

Alex Trotman (deceased)

 

Jac Nasser (sadly, still extant)

 

These guys were the ones whose long-term decisions did more to torpedo Ford's car programs than anyone else. They got rich during the truck/SUV craze, and didn't give a damn about what was coming. They made the Taurus a joke, made the Focus a recall nightmare, made the Contour a mistake and made the Probe dead.

 

Bill Ford inherited a huge mess from these dolts.

 

However...the whole "you made your bed, take a nap" approach on this board makes me sick. Why anyone would hate out on a company working very hard to fix problems left by previous idiots is beyond me...where's the credit for the first domestic hybrids? The SULEVs? The retaking of CAR market share with products like the Fusion? It's obvious the focus has changed, but people would rather just throw blame around like random shrapnel instead of focusing on the dolts that made the decisions.

 

None of this is secret information, and indeed has been discussed to a fare-thee-well here. The negative nancies just apparently want to be mad at Ford, and will find ways to justify it.

Edited September 19, 2006 by ZanatWork

[06StangAwesomecar]

Anyone can have a bad dealer.

 

Look I guess you are happy with yours. Good for you, you are not in the market for a new car though... I am. There is absolutely no competition at this point in the small car market. Ford has no place in it. If they want new buyers they can either do something to attract us, or they can just watch us buy imports or another brand.

 

To Stang, you could not be less correct. It has nothing at all to do with foreign or domestic. Though with ford closing all its plants in North America it is hard to tell what truely is domestic anymore. As a matter of fact the best driving car I have driven so far in test drives is the Pontiac G5 (Chevy Cobalt rebadged). I would buy that car easy if it were not for the massive amount of horror stories about an issue chevy has NO IDEA what even the problem is with the front end. From what I have read on that car... if you are turning and go over a bump a large series of knocks starts comming out of the front end... It is a COMMON known issue though most dealers try to sell it to the public as "normal", and GM has replaced like crap loads of the front ends of these cars... (all struts, springs, the steering column, the master cylinder, etc... ) attempting to determine the solution... and has YET (over a year later) to come up with one... then they said, they are not going to continue to try to fix it until they actually have a workable solution... so everyone driving a cobalt or g5 has to just live with it... Hello... not me. Yeah sure spend 19k on a car that no one has a clue what an issue is with a years time to fix it... yeah right.

 

These are the types of issues I am speaking of that make buyers think twice about buying "domestic" as you call it. I was looking at the Chevy GTO as well... would that be Domestic? being built entirely in Australia? So get off the red state blue state dance.

 

 

You just dont get it do you? I am not on any dance, you rag domestic cars because of reviews, let me ask you this, who has the most recalls and issues of 2006??? TOYOTA. I can go look up issues (HORROR stories)on every toyoda made, and list them for you, not a problem. So if I do what you do going by all the current issues then why would I buy a Toyoda? And what is funny is 2 of my friends, own Cobalts, I have been in both never heard these noises, I will ask them about it. So did the one you test drove make any noises? And a GTO is a domestic it is built by Holden that GM owns, not hard to understand. Oh and 1 more thing how many domestics have you owned????

 

Australia’s first large scale automotive manufacturing facility was formed in 1931 when General Motors Australia merged with Holden’s Motor Body Builders to form General Motors Holden’s Limited (now Holden Ltd).

I'd think that being pissed at Ford for decade-old problems shows fantastically bad aim. Here's some names you should know:

 

Alex Trotman (deceased)

 

Jac Nasser (sadly, still extant)

 

These guys were the ones whose long-term decisions did more to torpedo Ford's car programs than anyone else. They got rich during the truck/SUV craze, and didn't give a damn about what was coming. They made the Taurus a joke, made the Focus a recall nightmare, made the Contour a mistake and made the Probe dead.

 

Bill Ford inherited a huge mess from these dolts.

 

However...the whole "you made your bed, take a nap" approach on this board makes me sick. Why anyone would hate out on a company working very hard to fix problems left by previous idiots is beyond me...where's the credit for the first domestic hybrids? The SULEVs? The retaking of CAR market share with products like the Fusion? It's obvious the focus has changed, but people would rather just throw blame around like random shrapnel instead of focusing on the dolts that made the decisions.

 

None of this is secret information, and indeed has been discussed to a fare-thee-well here. The negative nancies just apparently want to be mad at Ford, and will find ways to justify it.

 

 

Very good post.

[Guest Sixcav]

Spare me the flag waving bullshit Zana. It's curiuos to me that when I post a thread that openly defends the good things that Ford does you have nothing to say. But just as sure as the sunrise when I post something points out the bad things they do here you come with the

 

However...the whole "you made your bed, take a nap" approach on this board makes me sick. Why anyone would hate out on a company working very hard to fix problems left by previous idiots is beyond me...

 

Take some drama queen medicine I guess. These guys are multi-millionare CEO's, they are supposed to be smart. I expect better peformance from them so when they fuck up you bet your ass people will get after them about it and rightly so.

 

You take the good with the bad Zana, that's life. If you just wanna wave the Ford flag at us then get the fuck outta my face because that's what got Ford into this mess. It's not objective, and it's not reality. It's time to face the hard questions with hard answers and if you don't have the stomach for it then hit the bench.

 

 

By the way Shrwed, the GTO is a Pontiac product not Chevy. If you're going to be such and expert on all things domestic you might want to at least learn who sells what ok.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Sixcav

[ZanatWork]

Well, I see sixcav is resorting to gutter-speak again. Funny, that confirms how he CAN'T DEBATE.

 

What "flag waving"? I made points about actually taking issue with responsible parties instead of the half-blind negativism around here, and you went straight back to typing fifth-grade-filth (again...I guess I should expect nothing better from you) instead of taking real issues where they beling. The CEOs in question are the ones that set the car programs back...so why not actually aim your complaints where they should go?

 

I've taken issue with Ford's decisions here and elsewhere repeatedly. If I don't agree, I don't pretend to. Hence, take the flag you claim I'm waving and introduce it to your intestinal tract...your accusations, again, don't have anything behind them.

 

I'm curious why you are determined to be pathetic. You bitch at Ford's pricing, then admit (after you've had reality spelled out for you repeatedly) that it's the whole industry you feel is overpriced. Right or wrong, you don't bring ANY figures in terms of actual profit margins to back any of that babble.

 

Add that to a single minded (or, a mind comprised of a single cell...is that the problem?) desire to bitch about Ford even when the bitching is found a pointed out to be ill-aimed...what's the point?

 

Keep in mind that others already had you annoited the "negatoid" before I started trying to converse with you...so it's not just me. It's not just Ford's pricing, it's not just me taking issue with your rants...maybe it's YOU.

 

I figure another purely aimless or resoundingly profane response will be forthcoming...stay tuned, kids at home!

[J-150]

I'd think that being pissed at Ford for decade-old problems shows fantastically bad aim. Here's some names you should know:

 

Alex Trotman (deceased)

 

Jac Nasser (sadly, still extant)

 

 

 

you forgot to include Padilla and Gilmour on that list

[ZanatWork]

Alex and Jac were the biggest problems, IMO, but you're right...they should make the list.

[Guest Sixcav]

Add that to a single minded (or, a mind comprised of a single cell...is that the problem?) desire to bitch about Ford even when the bitching is found a pointed out to be ill-aimed...what's the point?

 

If it's so pointless then you should have no problem shutting the hell up about it. But that's not you is it boy? No the real Zana is the one trolling around here hoping that anyone says anything that can be remotely construed as negative towards Ford. Then you can get on your little soap box, wave the flag at us, cry about how negative we are and sing the Ford anthem. This place basically breaks down into three types of posters. There's the posters like you and Richie, the "Ford can do no wrong" crowd. Heads in the sand, up the ass, in the clouds, lost in the fog, where ever it is, its not reality. Then there's the crowd like this Shrewd idiot. The "Ford can do no right" crowd. Here to tell us how Toyota is going to take over the world. They hate it when the rest of us point out to them how Toyota isn't all they like to crack it up to be. Somewhere in the middle there's a few of us who neither worship at the Ford alter nor do we piss on it's logo. The ones who really do just look at things objectively. It drives you nuts I know and thats why you follow me around and try to turn everything into a fight. The only real pathetic one here is you Zana.

[TheLemon]

The only real pathetic one here is you Zana.

 

I agree!

[Tiberius1701]

Ford engines (when maintained properly) NEVER sludge up-unlike 'Yodas. Answer that.

 

Wow, it took 2+ pages of posts before the stinky citrus showed up!!

Edited September 19, 2006 by Tiberius1701

[ZanatWork]

If it's so pointless then you should have no problem shutting the hell up about it. But that's not you is it boy? No the real Zana is the one trolling around here hoping that anyone says anything that can be remotely construed as negative towards Ford. Then you can get on your little soap box, wave the flag at us, cry about how negative we are and sing the Ford anthem. This place basically breaks down into three types of posters. There's the posters like you and Richie, the "Ford can do no wrong" crowd. Heads in the sand, up the ass, in the clouds, lost in the fog, where ever it is, its not reality. Then there's the crowd like this Shrewd idiot. The "Ford can do no right" crowd. Here to tell us how Toyota is going to take over the world. They hate it when the rest of us point out to them how Toyota isn't all they like to crack it up to be. Somewhere in the middle there's a few of us who neither worship at the Ford alter nor do we piss on it's logo. The ones who really do just look at things objectively. It drives you nuts I know and thats why you follow me around and try to turn everything into a fight. The only real pathetic one here is you Zana.

 

 

Well, at least you spared us the "Def Comedy Jam" language this time.

 

 

Again, your accusations are just clouds of incorrect, ignorant spittle. I've taken issue with many Ford decisions (I know of no one more vicious about the Freestar than myself) here for YEARS, and I call 'em exactly as I see 'em. I hate how little SVT's presence has become, I've growled about everything from power to economy to dealer gouging over the years. Your accustaions...are very ignorant or intentionally stupid.

 

Sorry, you're making b.s. statements. You're wrong. So quit being a drooling idiot and REPEATING THE ERRORS.

 

It's obvious you lack anything like the wit to debate, so you try to spin everything into "3 types of posters" bibble-babble when your previous point is shown to be a pile of crap (again).

 

You failed again, there, negatoid. Try actually debating a point with real insight instead of trying (and failing badly) to point out the flaws in others for a change. You'll likely still lose, but at least you won't have to change direction every other post....

 

Awwww....ol' sourpuss tries to weigh in! Two words, 3 syllables, adding to his "complete waste of time and bandwidth" posts collection by one!