Footballfan Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/123...005123001.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/123...005123001.shtml I'll sign for a recount too it smell fishy to me as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_dayzd Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/123...005123001.shtml ________________________________________________________________________________________- Awesome, Footballfan! I just have to print the article here UAW dissidents challenge votes Press Automotive Editor Demands are mounting for a recount of the vote that ratified changes in the United Auto Workers' labor pacts with both the Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Co. Union members employed by Ford said Thursday they intend to ask the union to release the detailed results of last week's voting, in which the contract passed by a narrow 51 percent to 49 percent margin. Disgruntled workers are also planning to circulate a petition through Ford plants, calling on the union to submit the contract changes to a second vote, said Steve Fisher, a Ford employee from Sandusky, Ohio, who is currently serving as a spokesman for the workers critical of the contract vote. "Ideally, we'd like a revote," Fisher said. "The numbers just don't add up." Fisher noted that even partial returns from Ford plants show the contract changes being voted down by wide margins in places such as Louisville and the truck assembly plant in Ford's Rouge Manufacturing Complex. Ron Lare, a union activist from UAW Local 600 in Dearborn, said that, from his observations, the security in place to protect the integrity of the ballots during the ratifi cation vote appeared to be loose. The protests are just getting started and dissatisfied union members have not settled on a strategy, yet, Fisher added. Another possibility would be joining a lawsuit filed by disgruntled union members who asked a federal court in Detroit to set aside the UAW's agreement that trimmed the health care benefi ts of GM workers. The protest by Ford workers, if it uncovers any evidence of collusion with management or ballot-box stuffing, could bolster objections of GM retirees who have argued the union did not have the right to negotiate away the bene- fits of retired workers, Fisher said. UAW officials could not be reached for comment. However, Ellis Boal, a Charlevoix attorney who provided legal advice to a variety of UAW dissidents, confi rmed Thursday that he has been asked to advise disgruntled union members employed by both Ford and GM. "I haven't been retained by anybody, yet, but I expect to be," he said. Boal also said he plans to argue that the union's own internal election guidelines automatically call for recounts in any election for offi cers where the winning margin is 51 percent or less. The same principle should apply in ratification votes, Boal said. Union members have several avenues of protest open to Ford workers, including an appeal to the union's International Executive Board, an appeal to the union's independent Public Review Board and an appeal to the Convention Appeals Committee, which convenes during the union's constitutional convention and has the right to investigate issues connected to collective bargaining. In addition, an appeal to the convention would put added pressure on the UAW's top officer. Retirees can't vote in contract ratifications, but they can vote for convention delegates. Retirees also can run to be convention delegates under the union's current rules, Boal said. The protests, which represent one of the largest grassroots rebellions inside the UAW in nearly 20 years, are a potentially serious challenge to both GM and Ford, which have been attempting to offset the rising cost of health care. Union dissidents also have challenged Delphi's demands for sweeping cuts in wages and benefits. Burdens on both automakers have been intensified by their declining market share and rising financial losses. Fisher said he realizes that, given today's climate, the union does have to make some concessions. Some of the concessions in the contract include giving part of cost-ofliving raises and a $1 per hour pay increase scheduled for next September. What's disturbing about the changes is the plan to shift the retiree health care costs to the VEBA trust outside the existing health-care system in place at Ford. The VEBA trusts have been used by the UAW at Caterpillar and Detroit Diesel, and they have gone broke. "This one is designed to fail in seven to 10 years. Then what will be left?" Fisher said. Click here to return to story: http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/123...005123001.shtml ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So VEBA's always go broke, probably in 7 to 10 yeats, and Ford would be off the hook for retiree health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/123...005123001.shtml Glad to hear it, the inner dealings of the international need to be exposed to the light of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentucky250s Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Here is a local link to this story http://www.fox41.com/article/view/3229/?tf...articleview.tpl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Ain't that the truth. They also need to be reminded that they work FOR, and must ANSWER to us, not the other way around. Well, I've been doing a little reading at the various dissident UAW websites and it appears that the international has to answer to their owners, which turns out to be the big3. I asked this question here before, IIRC, how did the international manage to increase the size of it's organization over the last 20 odd years, both in $$ and numbers, while losing HALF of it's membership? Two words. JOINT PROGRAMS. Massive amounts of $$ and full time appointed jobs, both provided by the companies. I pointed out that the $850M "technology investment program" is more beneficial to the international than the membership, due to the fact that the company bought off the international with the promise of more appointed jobs-paid for by the company-not to mention the outright cash payments to the international, while selling out current members and the retirees. The international has been co-opted for years, look for more concessions from the membership as long as the current gang of thieves is running the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_dayzd Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Well, I've been doing a little reading at the various dissident UAW websites and it appears that the international has to answer to their owners, which turns out to be the big3. I asked this question here before, IIRC, how did the international manage to increase the size of it's organization over the last 20 odd years, both in $$ and numbers, while losing HALF of it's membership? Two words. JOINT PROGRAMS. Massive amounts of $$ and full time appointed jobs, both provided by the companies. I pointed out that the $850M "technology investment program" is more beneficial to the international than the membership, due to the fact that the company bought off the international with the promise of more appointed jobs-paid for by the company-not to mention the outright cash payments to the international, while selling out current members and the retirees. The international has been co-opted for years, look for more concessions from the membership as long as the current gang of thieves is running the show. Sailorjohn, I read some of the articles at that site, including the one about the joint programs, and the small amount of material I have read from the huge compilation there is sombering, to say the least. Another thought I had was about retiree dues. I have been told, I don't know for sure, that retirees pay $4 a month to the union. Maybe this is why they are willing to scrap their health care. I believe that there is a good bit of folks coming up in 2006 with retirement eligibility, including me. I have encouraged my co-workers who speak of 'waiting for the next contract' to go now, as I did not think there would be any benefit to waiting, and it would be one less job loss for our younger people. The ones who susposedly voted for us (future retirees) to pay for health care. It would seem that they (Ford and the UAW) might have waited until they got us out the door before they pulled this... Considering that we could vote on it. I thought the preference was to reduce the numbers through attrition. Now it looks like we will be shopping for healthcare in 7 to 10 years, to be purchased from a fixed pension which does'nt have COLA increases. Not a good age for that... And retirees who left earlier, but make more than the $8,000 exempted retirees, will be in even worse shape. There's always welfare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy!! Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Would one really think that if the vote numbers were rigged first time they won't be on a recount??? In years to come you younger folks will hear of the steps taken by government both local and federal, industry, including unions to correct and stabilize the unstable economy of this time period. You will in years to come also learn of the reasons behind the huge rise in fuel prices in the last couple years. Just go back and read your history books at the things that were done 50 to 100 years ago and what the public was lead to believe at the time and what the truth really was. Then government and industry wonder why we think they trying to fool us. Eventually this distrust will cause many problems in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butthead Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 The International needs to heed the membership wishes and have a legitimate vote on health care. All the facts and ramifications on retirees must be explored and made public. We are talking about huge amounts of money being transefered to a Trust that has a dismal track record. This should be done AFTER the Bill Ford Jr. announcement in Jan. as it should have been done in the first place. You DONT ask for concessions when the company is holding plant closings over your head. Thats the biggest tip off that this International is corrupt! They tell you they dont know how many plants and people will be lost but can come up with number that the union will save the company. "Bull Shit" If there is any evidence of foul play, collusion, or decite that is against the law we should invite the Federal authorities to investigate and if its found that THEY broke the law they SHOULD go to JAIL. Its time for the intenationl/locals to stop messen with the people that pays there lame ass! Cant wait to sign up for a re-vote. This vote smacks of what a third world country feel like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2D Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 That's funny, Everyone decides to vote for a pay-cut just when the cost-of-living goes up. I'm in the wrong business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2KGT Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 REVOTE! I voted NO. Everyone I have talked to voted no. Most of the big plants turned it down. And it still passed. Have a REVOTE. Plain and simple. Gettelfinger needs to find a new career. Maybe he could be Jac Nasser's Gopher Bitch....LOL... What in the FUCK was he thinking!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruckerMan2003 Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Glad to hear it, the inner dealings of the international need to be exposed to the light of day. What a surprise the way the UAW counts votes is rigged. Who would ever believe the UAW would cheat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvnascar Posted January 1, 2006 Share Posted January 1, 2006 What a surprise the way the UAW counts votes is rigged. Who would ever believe the UAW would cheat? Why is a vote even needed?? The choice is clear.....and getting clearer by the day. Give back some of the benefits and save the Company money wherever possible...........in order to let Ford (and GM) have a CHANCE at being competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda. Neither Ford nor GM has a long-term future at the moment....why don't the present-day workers (and retirees) understand that fact and do something about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailorjohn Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Why is a vote even needed?? The choice is clear.....and getting clearer by the day. Give back some of the benefits and save the Company money wherever possible...........in order to let Ford (and GM) have a CHANCE at being competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda. Neither Ford nor GM has a long-term future at the moment....why don't the present-day workers (and retirees) understand that fact and do something about it? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How does that work? Please explain to everyone here why Ford market share went from 25% to 18%? And while you're at it, explain why givebacks will help the company if the company is building vehicles that people don't want to buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun3 Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 Why is a vote even needed?? The choice is clear.....and getting clearer by the day. Give back some of the benefits and save the Company money wherever possible...........in order to let Ford (and GM) have a CHANCE at being competitive with the likes of Toyota and Honda. Neither Ford nor GM has a long-term future at the moment....why don't the present-day workers (and retirees) understand that fact and do something about it? I think most of us agree something must be done. But why hit the retirees? We can pick up a extra hour or two a month to pay for the medical ,can they? We can vote to get the money back in the future, can they? If they got rid of the 'clipboard appointed jobs' they could save enough to pay for the medical. Put those lazy people back to work doing a production job or on maintenance and make them earn the money. We could prevent our pay cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butthead Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 You can elininate the legal service and part of the group life insurance. Put the lame x-union officials and there cronies back on the floor and stop protecting the people who dont want to show up and or work. We must change for the better trough elimination of fat and the creation of lean and mean manuf. Get rid of the Intenational if they refuse to do what the members want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_dayzd Posted January 2, 2006 Share Posted January 2, 2006 I think most of us agree something must be done. But why hit the retirees? We can pick up a extra hour or two a month to pay for the medical ,can they? We can vote to get the money back in the future, can they? If they got rid of the 'clipboard appointed jobs' they could save enough to pay for the medical. Put those lazy people back to work doing a production job or on maintenance and make them earn the money. We could prevent our pay cuts. If retiree healthcare is transferred to the Veba trust, would'nt Ford be off the hook entirely for retiree healthcare, even if the trust goes broke within 7 to 10 years?? Ford does'nt need retirees healthy, they need current employees healthy. Besides, the sooner retirees die, the sooner underfunded pension payments stop. Do dogs really eat dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just like Glory, I don't know what it means! Who pays if it goes broke? You see, how could we vote??? That is exactly what everyone here is saying; without the info they SHOULD HAVE PROVIDED, we might have stuck our retirees. IS THAT HOW A UNION IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, through deceite??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just remember that the UAW is run like a business and as such. IT SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ONE! They should go public, issue stock and then we'll see who runs the show then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Just asking a question here. So put the flame throwers down. I dont want to fuck over the people who have earned their pension either. How would the "Sept. 14th 2011 cancelation by either party (UAW or Ford)" work into this? Wouldnt that be the "upside" for the those effected if it were to run a shore and go belly up? I have to ask this because it has not been discussed yet (That Ive seen). :huh: Time to go make some fajitas! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weneedchange Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) :blink: Just remember that the UAW is run like a business and as such. IT SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ONE! They should go public, issue stock and then we'll see who runs the show then. A rather large business at that! How many people does it take to sell us out? Go to: http://futureoftheunion.com/index.php?s=2006 Click on uaw two tier wages on the right side. Thats a whole lot of spending! Edited January 4, 2006 by Weneedchange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug M Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Just remember that the UAW is run like a business and as such. IT SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ONE! They should go public, issue stock and then we'll see who runs the show then. The UAW does NOT have the guts to go public, they have been very proficient at deceiving the members. But fortunately much of the corruption in the UAW will soon be exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 It's just a matter of time so that's why I keep watch on any newsbite that comes across as much as I can. But then again. I think this is all staged theater if you ask me. What's so funny about this health care vote is that you really didn't know what the hell you voted on to begin with! I am a proud union person but I am very, very skeptical of what the UAW does or says. You can't believe them for a minute and most of you would agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixuser Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 It's just a matter of time so that's why I keep watch on any newsbite that comes across as much as I can. But then again. I think this is all staged theater if you ask me. What's so funny about this health care vote is that you really didn't know what the hell you voted on to begin with! I am a proud union person but I am very, very skeptical of what the UAW does or says. You can't believe them for a minute and most of you would agree! I found the actual healthcare contract on the web at www.futureoftheunion.com/docs/uaw/uawfordhc.pdf I was surprized that it had a possible 3% increase in contributions each year for both hourly and the retirees. This just makes me madder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glory_dayzd Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 (edited) Some UAW members challenge Ford health-care deal Thu Jan 5, 2006 04:08 PM ET DETROIT, Jan 5 (Reuters) - A handful of United Auto Workers members are challenging the union's ratification vote that approved a deal to lower health-care costs at U.S. automaker Ford Motor Co. (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , a lawyer representing the workers said on Thursday. Blue-collar workers at Ford last month ratified with a 51 percent majority a deal that Ford said will allow it to cut about $650 million in annual health-care expenses. Two union members at Ford in Michigan and a Ford retiree in Ohio have sent letters to UAW President Ron Gettelfinger questioning how the ratification vote was conducted at some of the automaker's plants, said Ellis Boal, a labor lawyer representing the three workers. "There are several issues," Boal told Reuters. "The most resonating issue I would say is whether the vote count was valid and whether proper ratification meetings were held." A call to a UAW spokesman was not immediately returned. Ford spokeswoman Marcey Evans declined to comment, saying the workers' challenge was an internal UAW issue. "I don't believe 51 percent voted in favor of it," said Dennis Lapso, a Ford retiree from Local 1250 in Ohio. "I think it wasn't passed at all." Lapso said he hopes the challenge will lead to a new vote on the deal, which increases drug co-payments for active workers and requires retired UAW members to pay monthly premiums for the first time. Boal said other UAW-Ford members are likely to join the challenge. The Ford-UAW health-care pact follows a similar deal in October with General Motors Corp. (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research) that was ratified by the automaker's active workers by a 61 percent majority. Boal said he is also representing nine GM retirees who are planning to question whether they should be allowed to vote on this type of an agreement since it increases retiree costs. The UAW's constitution doesn't give retirees the right to vote on contracts, but Mr. Boal says the "rules are flexible", given a decision by a UAW public review board in 1997. _________________________________________________________________________________________ Wonder how we sign up? Edited January 6, 2006 by Glory_dayzd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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