2007 Ford Mondeo

[Edgey]

I don't see the production version of either the Mondeo or MKS so I think it's problematic to bitch & moan when production cars NEVER look like the concepts.

 

VW is probably the best source of fully-equiped and appropriately priced euro-boxes. If Ford followed their example, they would sell an appropriate number of cars to a smaller and more affluent audience. Ford is not that brand! There is always Volvo to fill that purpose in the Ford camp, assuming Volvo isn't one of the assets about to be sold. I love the S40 but you have to redefine your definition of 'value' if you want to pay nearly $30,000 for a gussied up Euro Focus.

 

I have a feeling many are going to be disappointed by the production Mondeo. It will not look NEARLY as sexy as the Iosis. I hope we don't have the same experience with the MKS when it finally reaches production, although the concept isn't exactly 'sexy' either. Personally, I thik it looks like a Lincolnfied version of the outgoing Bonneville. It's a very 'been there, done that' sort of design.

[Biker16]

Been done, Merkur, Mystique. Mercury will be going the way of Olds/Plymouth. Redundant.

 

Would be too expensive to import here, and Asian cars the same size would undercut it. And wagons are not that hot selling, look at the Dodge Magnum, now sitting around.

 

There just are not enough Euro Ford fans to warrant selling it. Look how many SVT Contours sold at loss. And no, BMW owners will not trade in for anything else.

 

We got Fusion, which I believe is better than the Mondeo. If one really wants a Euro Ford, then buy a Volvo.

 

I speak from experience, I had two Contours and used to think they were good cars. Now, they are as dated and forgotten as Tempos or Fairmonts.

today is not yesterday.

 

If we actually polled, the other than ford websites, and listen to what they say about this ford product. vs the other ford products.

 

It is a Fact, more than ever Ford needs to attract non ford buyers, if it does not ford is dead.

[RichardJensen]

today is not yesterday.

 

If we actually polled, the other than ford websites, and listen to what they say about this ford product. vs the other ford products.

 

It is a Fact, more than ever Ford needs to attract non ford buyers, if it does not ford is dead.

Well, in all fairness, we would have to include price.

 

At which point the Mondeo just doesn't look so good.

 

I find it hard to believe you could get that for $18k and a have a decent profit margin to boot.

[RichardJensen]

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see Ford competing on something other than price.

 

But Ford's starting over from scratch with passenger cars, and the most responsible way to get traction, IMO, is to go with price. Other approaches, like high content, higher price might work, but they're riskier than shooting straight for the wallet.

[bystander]

It looks like a nice car and it's enviable that the Europeans can bring out new product when it seems like their U.S. counterparts are running in slow motion. However, this car's styling, while very nice, is more consistent with Mazda's U.S. styling themes than Ford's. In fact, if you changed the headlights and grille, you could make this car look just like Mazda designed it from the ground up. It just doesn't fit with the more chiseled look of the Fusion/3 bar grille/power bulge hood theme that Ford is adopting for its U.S. products.

 

So to answer the question--no this isn't what Ford needs in North America. Ford needs a lot more Fords that were designed for North America in North America and pronto. Hastily importing a mishmash of vehicles from Europe and Australia with bandaid fixes to federalize them for the U.S. market would be seen by many as a desperate, last ditch (and frankly kind of pathetic) tactic.

 

Ford U.S. just needs a lot more vehicles like the Edge coming in the next 3 years. Not one or two a year trickling out of its PD factory or numerous subtle facelifts, but 3-4 vehicles PER YEAR with all-new sheetmetal and interiors.

[RichardJensen]

In Germany, the Ford Mondeo base package (which includes ESP and ABS, along with the other assorted goodies), costs €20,797 for an automatic equipped model with a 2.0L Duratec 4, excluding the 16% VAT.

 

In U.S. dollars, that is $26,588.

 

For that price, it dang well better have decent interior appointments.

 

Put another way, in order to generate the same profit for Ford here, the same model would have to sell for a fair margin over that $26,588 amount, to amortize cost of federalization and shipping.

[156n3rd]

It's nice for Europe, and if Ford was a European brand, it would be fine for the states, too.

 

I can't help but notice that the Mondeo's front is reminiscent of the MKS, which is derided for not being American enough (which, if it resembles the Mondeo, is a fair criticism). Yet, we will undoubtedly hear from malcontents that would rather have the Mondeo than the Fusion. Hopefully all of them are consistent enough to want the Mondeo AND consider the MKS styling to be decent.

 

Anyone that thinks the Mondeo looks great, but the MKS, derivative, is sitting on the fence, and as the great philosopher Jagger once said, that's "creasin' your butt".

 

Why do you NOT consider Ford as a European brand? Fords are sold world-wide, regardless of the origin of the company. Just curious because some Euro Fords look pretty good and seem to be bettr packaged in thier content. Some of them look as though they'd sell well here. Just thinking globally.

[RichardJensen]

Why do you NOT consider Ford as a European brand?

I was speaking for the American public in general, which pretty uniformly think of Ford as a U.S. car company, and--therefore--they are not willing to pay the kind of premium that VW can extract, as it sells its Euro-spec cars here.

 

But I too do not think that Ford should be trying to sell Euro-spec cars here.

[IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE]

In Germany, the Ford Mondeo base package (which includes ESP and ABS, along with the other assorted goodies), costs €20,797 for an automatic equipped model with a 2.0L Duratec 4, excluding the 16% VAT.

 

In U.S. dollars, that is $26,588.

 

For that price, it dang well better have decent interior appointments.

 

Put another way, in order to generate the same profit for Ford here, the same model would have to sell for a fair margin over that $26,588 amount, to amortize cost of federalization and shipping.

It looks like a Mazda. Ford please build something innovative for the Ford Name. A Ford is A Ford. Not a Mazda or volvo based auto. Consumer will not be fooled. And if the aim is to share platforms, what will actually differentiate the products other than the name. Lastly the name that is the owner to all is the least respected and percieved to be inferior. Ford (BOLD MOVES) now do it.

[waymondospiff]

In Germany, the Ford Mondeo base package (which includes ESP and ABS, along with the other assorted goodies), costs €20,797 for an automatic equipped model with a 2.0L Duratec 4, excluding the 16% VAT.

 

In U.S. dollars, that is $26,588.

 

For that price, it dang well better have decent interior appointments.

 

Put another way, in order to generate the same profit for Ford here, the same model would have to sell for a fair margin over that $26,588 amount, to amortize cost of federalization and shipping.

 

But things are always more expensive in Europe. And I don't know why. I can't read German, so this is from the UK, but here are some comparisons:

 

UK: VW Golf 1.6 3-Door 6-speed manual - 11,257.02 pounds, or $21,383.29

US: VW Rabbit 2.5 3-Door Manual - $14,990

 

UK: Volvo S40 2.4i Geartronic S - 15,478.30 pounds, or $29,401.83

US: Volvo S40 2.4i with optional automatic - $25,490

 

UK prices exclude VAT and cars are roughly similarly equipped, but I didn't do a one-for-one item check. I've always been under the impression that even without VAT, cars in Europe just cost more.

 

With the Mondeo's somewhat simplier suspension and, as you've already stated, liberal parts bin usage, the Mondeo shouldn't be any more expensive than the Fusion, assuming they're both made at the same plant. And that's the only true comparison. Because, if the Mondeo is fundamentally more expensive, and it is no better than the Fusion as stated in this thread, then Ford is foolhardy to offer the Mondeo and should send CD3 tooling to Europe so they could turn out Fusions with European grilles for thousands less.

 

My basic argument: the Fusion & Mondeo, if all outside factors are the same, would HAVE to cost about the same to produce. Could you simply import Mondeos to the US from Europe? No, of course not, exchange rates are prohibitive and European labor rates are uncompetitive. But if the Mondeo was made in the US? I can't see how it would be more expensive.

 

Scott

[pcsario]

In Germany, the Ford Mondeo base package (which includes ESP and ABS, along with the other assorted goodies), costs €20,797 for an automatic equipped model with a 2.0L Duratec 4, excluding the 16% VAT.

 

In U.S. dollars, that is $26,588.

 

For that price, it dang well better have decent interior appointments.

 

Put another way, in order to generate the same profit for Ford here, the same model would have to sell for a fair margin over that $26,588 amount, to amortize cost of federalization and shipping.

 

Yeah lets go with german or UK prices and ignore other markets. just because they contradict your case. :rolleyes:

 

C1 Focus selling in AU well equipped for around 16K USD. Sells also in every market for about the same as the Mazda3.

 

A fully loaded Ford Mondeo costs less than the top of the line Fusion SEL in Mexico. (That's the V6 Ford Mondeo with xenon headlights, leather/heated seats, ESP, 17" wheels, rain sensing wipers, manumatic transmision, etc.) The Mondeo ST220 is the only model more expensive than the fully loaded Fusion. All the other versions are similarly priced.

 

Focus from Argentina Vs. Focus from Wayne - One's the same as the old Focus in Europe, soft plastics everywhere, better brakes, better handling, no compromises in materials and other stuff. Bigger standard equipment list. Costs around the same, and is more profitable. (Ford dealers in Latin America push that one far more than the one from the US, which is a harder sell because it sucks so much in comparison)

 

Obviously in all cases the business case works and Ford gets a healthy profit. Which division is making money and which one isn't? Which approach worked and which failed? Emulating Kia or Hyundai won't get Ford anywhere.

 

Honda and Toyota's product standards are pretty much on par everywhere.

Edited September 23, 2006 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

Yeah lets go with german or UK prices and ignore other markets. just because they contradict your logic. :rolleyes:

That's not German pricing. That's EU pricing. Pull up the VAT exclusive price for any 2.0 auto equipped Mondeo, in any EU country and you'll be looking at almost the exact same price.

 

BTW, you did notice that Ford is only selling V6 Fusions in Mexico, right?

 

Because, if the Mondeo is fundamentally more expensive, and it is no better than the Fusion as stated in this thread

I would not agree with that. Materials throughout the Mondeo are better, and they should be. EUCD may or may not be a better base architecture than CD3, but the gadgets installed, and available, as well as the quality of materials used on the Mondeo would send the Fusion's price, well, into Mondeo territory.

 

The stuff on the Mondeo that's parts bin is parts bin. Other things--the better head unit, the better HVAC controls, the better dash materials, the better seating surfaces, etc. All that costs money.

 

Now, the exchange rate does distort things a bit, as it's currently pretty high.

 

However, even if you factor out the difference in exchange, you've got a more expensive product to produce.

 

Which division is making money and which one isn't?

 

Honda and Toyota's product standards are pretty much on par everywhere.

1) Ford Europe is hardly setting the world on fire. Check the financials. It's healthier than the U.S. unit, but margins are razor thin over there. You could get all huffy because you don't believe me, but you'll just be wasting your time to prove me right. Ford Europe has been on the knife edge profit wise for the last decade. Ford has at least done better than GM in Europe (where GM, I believe in Q4 05, turned a quarterly profit for the first time in 5 years).

 

2) Have you ever seen an Acura TSX?

 

Know what it is?

 

The Euro-spec Accord.

[one2gamble]

you dont have to factor in exchange rates etc etc if you build it over here. Its not like Ford doesnt have excess capacity.

 

You could probably build 30-50K in some flex plant somehwere inside the US and sell it as a mercury (which FOE style would work) without a significant cost increase over the fusion. I wouldnt mind seeing a 2/4 door mercury version built over here. It should come in under the cost of a S40.

Edited September 23, 2006 by one2gamble

[RichardJensen]

you dont have to factor in exchange rates etc etc if you build it over here. Its not like Ford doesnt have excess capacity.

You wouldn't be money ahead, as you'd basically have to 'all-but-assemble' the vehicle in Europe--ship all the stuff over here, and do final assembly here. It's not like Ford's NA suppliers can provide all that stuff.

 

Ford really missed their chance with the CDW--they pulled it out of NA, when they should've stuck with it.

 

Now all you've got until the 'grand unified platform theory' is realized is a bunch of theoretical half-measures (like assembling FoE stuff here) that really isn't exchange rate resistant.

 

And that's one of the big reason why Ford isn't taking gambles on smaller volume products from Australia and Europe.

 

The business case doesn't handle "stress tests", such as prolonged unfavorable exchange, etc.

 

--

 

If you were going to do anything along the "Mercury as import brand", I'd have to go with Mercury using rebadged Mazdas, as Mazda, unlike FoE is building cars for the U.S. market already. It's a program with a greater likelihood of success, for the investment, than federalizing a bunch of European stuff.

[pcsario]

That's not German pricing. That's EU pricing. Pull up the VAT exclusive price for any 2.0 auto equipped Mondeo, in any EU country and you'll be looking at almost the exact same price.

 

BTW, you did notice that Ford is only selling V6 Fusions in Mexico, right?

 

Prices are region driven. Again, stop ignoring Australia and other countries.

 

Oh and they only sell V6 Fusions because Mexico also gets the 4 cyl Mondeo. It would be a redundant lineup. Still, that Mondeo I gave you to prove you wrong, is far from being the "base" model and yet costs less than the SEL Fusion.

 

Here's something new for you: Ford's going to start selling the C1 Focus in Mexico. It'll cost about 1k more than a simiarly equipped Mazda3, trim by trim. You can go to Mazda's site in Greece, and tell us how much it costs over there blah blah blah... bottom line is this is NA, and this is what cars like these retail for in this continent, and profitably too. Someone tell any non-european country where the C1 Focus is being sold, that their cars should cost as much as they do in Europe, just because Richard pulled up a calculator and assumed the rest.

 

Ford Europe is hardly setting the world on fire. Check the financials. It's healthier than the U.S. unit, but margins are razor thin over there. You could get all huffy because you don't believe me, but you'll just be wasting your time to prove me right. Ford Europe has been on the knife edge profit wise for the last decade. Ford has at least done better than GM in Europe (where GM, I believe in Q4 05, turned a quarterly profit for the first time in 5 years).

Europe is a tougher market to crack. Ford's competing with more brands there than in the US, and has to please as much people as possible. It's a tougher act to balance because the demographics are far more complex, and yet they came up with a winning formula.

 

To just brush off all of their gains (much like the NA division today, they too were the laughing stock of the industry some years ago) is just boycotting Ford's own future.

 

2) Have you ever seen an Acura TSX?

 

Know what it is?

 

The Euro-spec Accord.

 

And yet somehow Honda managed to place the same ammount of effort in both Accords, even sharing the same interior.

 

We can't say the same thing about Ford, the difference in product standards is abysmal.

Edited September 23, 2006 by pcsario

[RichardJensen]

Europe is a tougher marker to crack. Ford's competing with more brands there than in the US, and has to please as much people as possible. It's a tougher act to balance because the demographics are far more complex, and yet they came up with a winning formula.

 

To just brush off all of their gains (much like the NA division today, they too were the laughing stock of the industry some years ago) is just boycotting Ford's own future.

1) Ford also has to deal with the reality that Germany and France are 'home' markets for PSA, Renault, and VW. Part of the decline of FoE in the 80s/early 90s was due to state support of those companies, which finally figured out how to build reliable modern vehicles.

 

2) "brush off all of their gains"

 

What I said was, and it is true, that Ford's European operations have not been consistently profitable the last 5-6 years.

 

This does not mean that I scoff at the turnaround in Ford's EU product, which was perhaps in worse shape in '92/93 than at any time before or since.

 

However, I will continue to assert that it is simply impractical, and contrary to three decades of experience, to suggest that Ford's NA audience will buy a largely unaltered EU spec vehicle at a profitable price.

 

Doesn't mean Ford can't share architectures with the EU.

 

Does mean that Ford has to design the vehicle for the NA.

[RichardJensen]

And yet somehow Honda managed to place the same ammount of effort in both Accords, even sharing the same interior.

 

We can't say the same thing about Ford, the difference in product standards is abysmal.

EU Accord doesn't have the same interior. Has more common componentry than Ford, but then Ford has taken its sweet time learning the value of common componentry.

 

Of course, try going down to your local Honda dealer, and ordering an Accord with Adaptive Cruise Control, or Lane Departure Warning, or Bluetooth.

 

And you can't get the Voice Activated Sat Nav unless you buy the most expensive package.

[StevenJ]

Just to tease the "European" smug crowd, the best Fords never ever came out of Eupore...

 

 

They came from down under!

 

 

Stick that FWD POS somewhere else! You and you're 'fancy' interiors. You can touch your fancy leather all day long! I'll take the 5.4l V8 and RWD any day!

 

Okay I'm done ranting.

[cobra32]

As cars go the new Mondeo is a great looking car and looks ten times better than a Fusion both inside and out. Plus with 300 horsepower in the top model it will walk all over a Fusion in performance. The European Fords are what Ford needs to compete with both the Europeans and Japanese cars because that is the competition, not GM or Dodge here in the States. The European Focus is in a whole different league than the one them sale here in the States also. The European Fords have allot better interiors and exteriors it’s what Ford needs to compete here also. Other than the Mustang, Fords cars are lacking in performance, looks and excitement also. The Fusion is not a bad car, but the Mondeo is a better car with a higher grade interior and better performance also. I do not know of any 150 mph Fusion but the Top Mondeo will do it. The Ausie Falcon's would be a great replacement for our outdated rear wheel drive big cars like the Crown Vic.

Edited September 23, 2006 by cobra32

[turbo_diesel_focus]

I dont think Ford want to go down the same road with the new Mondeo as they did with the Contour/Mystique. But like everything else Ford has messed up recently, if only they had the nerve and guts to keep the Contour going, it would of been a extreamly important model now as everyone is shunning away from SUVs and wanting more fuel effieicnt cars. Yeh, loads of people thought the Contour was a faliure, but if Ford just gave it some American charactor then maybe it would still be here now and propping up Fords profits and keeping buyers from going to Japanese alternatives.

 

Like Ford seems to do alot these days, if it doesnt work the first time they dont improve, they just cancell.

 

Continental, Thunderbird, Mark Series, Cougar, Montary/Freestar etc....

 

Compare how many cars Toyota has cancelled and axed in the last 6 years, NOT many!

[one2gamble]

It's not like Ford's NA suppliers can provide all that stuff.

 

 

Why not.....

 

If they cant Fords NA suppliers need to be replaced.

[RichardJensen]

Why not.....

 

If they cant Fords NA suppliers need to be replaced.

Because they'd have to manufacture it. It requires tooling and assembly line setup to build wiring harnesses, and to mold interior components, seats, etc. too.

 

And you can't really replace them, because there's not that many companies that can do that stuff.

[156n3rd]

I was speaking for the American public in general, which pretty uniformly think of Ford as a U.S. car company, and--therefore--they are not willing to pay the kind of premium that VW can extract, as it sells its Euro-spec cars here.

 

But I too do not think that Ford should be trying to sell Euro-spec cars here.

I see. As for VW, they cannot justify the cost for what they sell as far as I'm concerned. What makes them so great? When I was in Scotland, I saw many Mondeos and (In 2004) they were attractive and highly regarded. We rode in an early Mondeo cab (just like the '95 Contour I owned) and it was terrible. I think they have brought the model a long way. Euro tastes are nowhere near what they are here. But, my step-daughter's boyfriend just purchased a 1 year Old Hummer H2! The roads over there in Scotland are fairly small and fuel is outrageous. Go figure.

Edited September 23, 2006 by 156n3rd

[hi-lo feva2]

looks just like a mazda 6. look at it good

[pcsario]

Here's the notchback version as it will appear in Casino Royale: