F-150 Tremor vs Ranger Raptor

[blksn8k2]

5 hours ago, tbone said:

I would say you can get another 10k out of them.  My experience is they start to wear faster after 40k and they generate a lot of road noise at that point.  I do like the tire though.  They are my first choice.  

 

I probably could but they are the 265s and would look a little small on the Tremor. They were borderline too small on the other truck but it didn't have a lifted suspension. The brand new 285/70R17 KO2s are the same overall diameter as the 18" Generals that came on the Tremor. I sat one of the mounted 17" Raptor wheels next to the truck and even with smaller tire it actually looked really good IMO. I thought I would have to paint them solid black or even the same dark argent as the stock Tremor wheels but I think the machined finish spokes of the Raptor wheels look great with the Azure Gray color of the Tremor. 

 

Been having quite the adventure with the dealer in Indiana. I'll pass more info on once the dust settles. Let's just say I would never buy another vehicle from those shysters. You'll be shocked by what they did. Or maybe not...

[tbone]

7 hours ago, blksn8k2 said:

 

I probably could but they are the 265s and would look a little small on the Tremor. They were borderline too small on the other truck but it didn't have a lifted suspension. The brand new 285/70R17 KO2s are the same overall diameter as the 18" Generals that came on the Tremor. I sat one of the mounted 17" Raptor wheels next to the truck and even with smaller tire it actually looked really good IMO. I thought I would have to paint them solid black or even the same dark argent as the stock Tremor wheels but I think the machined finish spokes of the Raptor wheels look great with the Azure Gray color of the Tremor. 

 

Been having quite the adventure with the dealer in Indiana. I'll pass more info on once the dust settles. Let's just say I would never buy another vehicle from those shysters. You'll be shocked by what they did. Or maybe not...

Im looking forward to hearing about this. Not a lot shocks me nowadays.  There seems to be more morally bankrupt people out there than in the past.  

[blksn8k2]

On 8/5/2023 at 2:49 AM, tbone said:

Im looking forward to hearing about this. Not a lot shocks me nowadays.  There seems to be more morally bankrupt people out there than in the past.  

 

No kidding.

 

What happened was the truck had some body damage when it was delivered and the dealer knew about it but tried to hide it from me by, I believe, intentionally delivering the truck after dark and making sure the damaged side never saw any light while sitting in my driveway. Yes, I should have done a better job of inspecting the truck but it was supposedly a brand new truck and who would honestly suspect a dealer would pull a stunt like that? 

 

I probably should have been more alert that something was up when they were so anxious to deliver the truck. I had expressed a desire to pick the truck up in person but the salesman insisted that they would deliver it and do it for no charge. Great, or so I thought.

 

Long story short, the damage was so minor that I didn't see it until the next day. I took the truck to my local Ford dealer whose body shop manager inspected the damage and told me at first that it could be fixed under the bumper-to-bumper warranty. I also gave him a hard copy of the correspondence I had with the dealer after I discovered the damage.  

 

However, when he talked to the selling dealer they admitted that they knew about it and claimed that it was done by the company that delivered the truck from the plant to them which means that company will ultimately be charged for the repairs. How convenient. Ford doesn't get a warranty charge and the dealer avoids a much deserved black eye.

 

That might be true but it doesn't explain why the stock photos of the truck sitting on the dealer's lot do not show any of the damage. The dealer even installed several accessories including splash guards which are visible in the photos from their lot. That was all done before I inquired about the truck. They could do all that but couldn't repair obvious body damage? There's still something rotten in Chicago. Whatever.

 

My guess is that it happened sometime after those dealer photos were taken and probably during a test drive. Perhaps even by the customer who originally ordered the truck. I realize that I will never know what really happened but I also have absolutely no reason to believe anything I have heard from the selling dealer.

 

The bottom line is that it will be fixed at no cost to me or my insurance company. What pisses me off more than the damage is that the dealer thought they could get away with hiding it. 

 

How stupid can a business be to knowingly jeopardize future business with a customer that they knew had a nearly perfect credit score? Idiots.

 

BTW, the damage on the passenger side of the bed will require that the dents be fixed, that area be re-painted and then the entire bedside be sprayed with a clearcoat blending agent. The Tremor decal will also be replaced. So, yeah, not exactly a cheap repair.

 

Oh, and there is also a small dimple on the top of the driver side fender. I assume that happened sometime during the dealer installation of the Roush CAI. The local dealer's dent specialist should be able to pop that out without any re-painting.

[blksn8k2]

And just to be clear, even though this truck was delivered with some damage, I still believe that I got a decent deal on a fully loaded truck. As a matter of fact, it has stuff on it that I never would have even considered ordering but am not at all disappointed that it has. As I said before, they also gave me more for my trade than I expected and discounted the new truck by several thousand dollars under MSRP.

 

Once these few issues are taken care of, and especially after I get the supercharger installed, this will definitely still be the truck I have always dreamed of having. Kind of a middle class Raptor R that can still do things a truck should be able to do. Notice I didn't say "poor man's" which IMO is a totally ridiculous statement given the price of all trucks these days.

 

Over the past few days I have done a couple of other mods. After seeing what the drop-in bedliner did to the floor of the old truck's bed I debated whether or not I wanted to use it on this new truck even after going to the effort of removing it from the old truck's bed. Accessories don't add anything to the trade-in value so why just give them to the dealer? I could have also gone with a spray-in liner but why spend money on something else? Besides, the drop-in liner will do a better job of protecting the aluminum bed just in case the truck is ever used in a GM commercial.

 

 I had some felt-backed vinyl upholstery material left over from another project so I decided to put some of that under the liner in the highest wear areas. Hopefully, that will prevent any serious paint damage. I did have to cut some extra openings in the liner for the Pro Power outlets and the in-bed light switch which was in a different location on the old truck.

 

Has anyone ever tried to install a drop-in bedliner by their self? It sucks because you have to somehow get the top edge on each side underneath the top side rail of the metal bed. Removing the plastic top cap on each side would do no good as the metal flange extends down to the bottom edge of the plastic cap. The only way I could find to do it without causing major damage to the metal was to first lift the liner up on the driver side so that I could tilt the entire liner while sliding it under the passenger side of the top rail and then once that side was in place, lift the middle of the liner floor up so that the driver side of the liner could be tilted and slid under the top rail on that side. I doubt that's the way the pros do it but it worked.

 

I also kept the rubber bed floormat that I had in the other truck. That stops most stuff from sliding around on the hard plastic bedliner and is thick enough to add even more protection against stupid GM tricks.

 

I also added a new set of Husky brand plastic inner fender liners inside the rear wheel openings. Sorry about the crud in the photo but it's been raining here and that's exactly why I added them. Well, that and the fact that this truck will see some semi-serious off-roading, especially once archery season starts in about a month and a half.

 

[blksn8k2]

Now that I've put a couple of thousand miles on the Tremor I thought it would be interesting to make a few comparisons to my previous 2018 F-150. 

 

The drivetrains are very similar with both being the 5.0L V8, 10-speed auto, 4x4 with the 3.73:1 axle ratio. The biggest difference is tire size with the 275/60R18 General Grabber ATs being about 1" larger in overall diameter than the 255/55R20 Hankooks that came on the '18 which were part of the Special Edition package back then. That effectively changes the final drive ratio due to the Tremor's tires being taller and that probably also contributes to Tremor feeling a little less quick on acceleration. The greater rolling resistance of the Generals could also be part of why the fuel mileage is a little lower as well.

 

Speaking of the 5.0L, so far the gen IV is night and day better in the NVH department. I truly hated all the nasty sounds coming from the gen III Coyote, or at least the one in my '18. It was so noisy that it was actually embarrassing to drive at times. And I'm not referring to the exhaust sound. The engine rattled and clanged so badly at times that anyone who stood near it while idling could easily have assumed it was a Diesel. So far, knock on wood, the '23 sounds like a fine watch in comparison.

 

As far as on-road handling is concerned, the '18 was actually quite a bit better. Most of that is probably due to the lower center of gravity and the slightly less off-road oriented FX4 suspension and tires compared to the Tremor. The Tremor is not bad, it just doesn't feel as planted when cornering and has more body roll than the '18. A better set of shocks would probably fix some of that, especially the jittery feel of the rear axle.

 

I haven't done any serious off-roading with the Tremor yet but just based on the differences in suspension and tires it should be significantly more capable than the '18. Both trucks have the electronic locking rear differential but the Tremor also has the Torsen limited slip front differential which the '18 did not have. That alone should make a huge difference, especially in low-speed traction.

 

While the '18 had the really nice black cloth with red stitching SE package interior, the full  leather interior in the Tremor, which is part of the 402A High Equipment Group package, is a significant step above. The Tremor also has heated and cooled front seats along with a heated rear seat while the '18 only had heated front seats. The Tremor should also have a heated steering wheel but that was deleted on my truck due to parts (chip?) shortages. Hopefully that can be restored at some point. The Tremor also has the B&O Unleashed 18-speaker sound system which is a huge step above what the '18 had but I'm not convinced it is worth the cost of that option over the standard 8-speaker B&O system that comes with the 402A package. Had I ordered this truck I doubt that would have been included. The Tremor also has the Interior Work Surface option and the dealer installed console safe which are nice but, again, neither of which probably would have been on the truck had I ordered it. 

 

Both trucks have the panoramic moonroof and power sliding rear window so no advantage there. 

 

As far as electronics are concerned, I have some mixed feelings there. While the Tremor can do some amazing things with cameras, driver assists, etc., I seriously doubt I will ever really need a lot of that stuff and it just adds to the cost of the vehicle. I would have been perfectly fine with what came as part of the 401A Standard Equipment Group except for the fact that it does not include the 4A (AWD) setting for the transfer case.

 

Exterior lighting is worlds better on the Tremor. On a recent trip I had to drive after dark on country roads for about 50 miles. The auto setting on the headlights is amazingly good IMO. It was better than me when it came to dimming the lights for oncoming traffic, which isn't saying much. The only minor glitch was that it would dim the headlights if it detected a high enough reflection off of road signs on the left side of the highway. Road signs on the right side had zero effect which is a huge improvement over the auto dimming lights on my old Thunderbird SC. LOL

 

Both trucks have the 36 gallon fuel tank so no advantage there either. The towing and payload ratings are also very similar.

 

While I liked the exterior appearance of the '18 I was never really sold on the SE stripe package, especially the hockey stick side stripes. The orange accents on the Tremor are a little more subtle, which I like better. I have always been a fan of silver paint but I do have to say that the Azure Gray on the Tremor is even better. I also prefer the Raptor-like 18" wheels on the Tremor over the 20" SE wheels on the '18. The Raptor style side steps are also better looking and more functional. Overall I think the Tremor just has a more aggressive look. Advantage: Tremor.

[tbone]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:08 PM, blksn8k2 said:

And just to be clear, even though this truck was delivered with some damage, I still believe that I got a decent deal on a fully loaded truck. As a matter of fact, it has stuff on it that I never would have even considered ordering but am not at all disappointed that it has. As I said before, they also gave me more for my trade than I expected and discounted the new truck by several thousand dollars under MSRP.

 

Once these few issues are taken care of, and especially after I get the supercharger installed, this will definitely still be the truck I have always dreamed of having. Kind of a middle class Raptor R that can still do things a truck should be able to do. Notice I didn't say "poor man's" which IMO is a totally ridiculous statement given the price of all trucks these days.

 

Trust me, you will likely grow to like some of those extra options that you won’t want to skip them next time. And yes, definitely not a poor man’s anything since nothing is cheap anymore.  

 

[blksn8k2]

9 hours ago, tbone said:

 

Trust me, you will likely grow to like some of those extra options that you won’t want to skip them next time. And yes, definitely not a poor man’s anything since nothing is cheap anymore.  

 

 

If the UAW goes on strike I will also feel a whole better about finding a loaded '23 on the lot and at a discount. Ordering a '24 could become a real headache in more ways than one.

[blksn8k2]

Just received an email today from Roush Performance. They just released a new supercharger kit that is designed for the F-150 5.0L with Pro Power Onboard which gives me another option to consider. Still rated at 705 hp and 635 ft-lb which are higher numbers than the Whipple kit from Ford Performance. The Ford kit is rated at 700 hp and 590 ft-lb. My truck already has the Roush CAI so hopefully that will work with the Roush SC kit although it appears that the kit does include a new CAI anyway. Shouldn't be too difficult to sell whichever CAI I don't need.

 

https://www.roushperformance.com/parts/f150-parts-category/f150-superchargers-category/2021-2023-roush-f-150-supercharger-kit-equipped-with-pro-power-onboard.html?mc_cid=e67bf62e6d&mc_eid=9d318a61cc

[blksn8k2]

I picked up the Tremor from the local dealer's body shop yesterday. They fixed all of the body damage that was on the truck when the dealer in Indiana delivered it and it turned out awesome. Unlike those clowns in Indiana my local dealer has been upfront about everything they have done for me and so far the only thing it has cost me is my time and inconvenience which are really all on the ass clowns in Indiana. Speaking of that cost, I also received a copy of the invoice for the body work. The total came to $1386.71, which again, will unfortunately be billed to the company that originally delivered the truck to the selling dealership. That included repairing and repainting the passenger side bedside, repainting the outside mirror on that the side and removing the dimple on the top of the driver side front fender. I also had them replace the TREMOR decal on the driver side as it was applied crooked from the factory. BTW, according to the decal on the doorpost, my truck was built in January of 2023. How on earth could it have sat either on the dealer's lot or in some holding lot in Detroit for that many months with obvious body damage and never had anyone even attempt to repair it prior to selling it? Hell, the dealership even added dealer installed accessories like the splash guards and couldn't fix the obvious body damage first? Not to mention the fact that they had photos of that side of the truck on their website. Total BS IMHO. As I've said before, all of the evidence points to the damage having been done AFTER the dealership took delivery and I have absolutely no reason to believe anything the selling dealership has said otherwise. 

 

One other defect that I hadn't mentioned before was that the cruise control never worked from the day I took delivery. That turned out to be a loose wire connection on one of the sensors inside the front bumper. What's both interesting and disgusting about that is that it was probably never connected properly on the assembly line. One might think that it could have been knocked loose sometime after the selling dealer took delivery but that seems almost impossible considering the fact that the entire area behind the bumper is protected by a huge skid plate and there was no visible damage to the painted bumper itself. You can't even reach up in there with your hand. The local dealer's tech had to remove a plastic cover from the front of the bumper just to be able to access and push the wire connector on properly. Why is that disgusting? Because the delivery driver made a big deal about how great it was to have used the Adaptive Cruise Control on the entire 500 mile trip from Chicago. Right. If you believe that I've got a bridge for sale in....well, you get the point. BTW, that driver also happened to be what the sales manager referred to as "one of our F-150 specialists". In other words, he was also a car salesman. All I can say is don't ever buy a vehicle in the Chicago area from anyone named Tresten. Lying SOB. 

 

In my opinion, a lot of this also points to piss-poor or nonexistent dealer prep. I also found factory assembly decals on the rear seatbacks which were visible from the rear of the truck along with tape on the inside of the power sliding rear window that should have been removed during dealer prep. Who knows what other stuff (like fixing the cruise control) they didn't do or check during dealer non-prep?

 

Speaking of that, the sales manager also made a big deal of how the delivery driver was going to take the truck to a car wash and detail it before he came to my house which is something else that never happened even though the driver literally told me that he "called three people just to make sure the truck would fit through the automatic car wash" which was less than fifteen miles from my house. Again, lying SOB. I know exactly which car wash that was because I told him to use it and how to get to it during a phone call while he was in route. As I told the sales manager, if there are security cameras at the car wash, they will prove that my truck was never even there. When he got to my house, all four tires had dried mud on them and I later found dried mud inside all four wheel wells which I took photos of and sent to the sales manager. When I questioned the driver about that and the fact that he had just told me the story about the car wash his only response was "I have no idea where that came from." Good grief! My guess is that mud got there during a test drive or some other off-road adventure after it was delivered to the selling dealership and that is also probably when the body damage occurred. Come to think of it, Tresten also told me that his family owns property in Indiana that has "lots of ATV trails". Hmmmm?

 

And dealerships wonder why people hate the whole car buying experience. This one has obviously been an f'ing nightmare!

 

One of my next obvious purchases is going to be a license plate frame that doesn't have that wonderful dealership's name on it.

[blksn8k2]

After photos of the body repairs performed by Spitzer Ford - Lincoln of DuBois, PA:

 

 

[tbone]

12 hours ago, blksn8k2 said:

I picked up the Tremor from the local dealer's body shop yesterday. They fixed all of the body damage that was on the truck when the dealer in Indiana delivered it and it turned out awesome. Unlike those clowns in Indiana my local dealer has been upfront about everything they have done for me and so far the only thing it has cost me is my time and inconvenience which are really all on the ass clowns in Indiana. Speaking of that cost, I also received a copy of the invoice for the body work. The total came to $1386.71, which again, will unfortunately be billed to the company that originally delivered the truck to the selling dealership. That included repairing and repainting the passenger side bedside, repainting the outside mirror on that the side and removing the dimple on the top of the driver side front fender. I also had them replace the TREMOR decal on the driver side as it was applied crooked from the factory. BTW, according to the decal on the doorpost, my truck was built in January of 2023. How on earth could it have sat either on the dealer's lot or in some holding lot in Detroit for that many months with obvious body damage and never had anyone even attempt to repair it prior to selling it? Hell, the dealership even added dealer installed accessories like the splash guards and couldn't fix the obvious body damage first? Not to mention the fact that they had photos of that side of the truck on their website. Total BS IMHO. As I've said before, all of the evidence points to the damage having been done AFTER the dealership took delivery and I have absolutely no reason to believe anything the selling dealership has said otherwise. 

 

One other defect that I hadn't mentioned before was that the cruise control never worked from the day I took delivery. That turned out to be a loose wire connection on one of the sensors inside the front bumper. What's both interesting and disgusting about that is that it was probably never connected properly on the assembly line. One might think that it could have been knocked loose sometime after the selling dealer took delivery but that seems almost impossible considering the fact that the entire area behind the bumper is protected by a huge skid plate and there was no visible damage to the painted bumper itself. You can't even reach up in there with your hand. The local dealer's tech had to remove a plastic cover from the front of the bumper just to be able to access and push the wire connector on properly. Why is that disgusting? Because the delivery driver made a big deal about how great it was to have used the Adaptive Cruise Control on the entire 500 mile trip from Chicago. Right. If you believe that I've got a bridge for sale in....well, you get the point. BTW, that driver also happened to be what the sales manager referred to as "one of our F-150 specialists". In other words, he was also a car salesman. All I can say is don't ever buy a vehicle in the Chicago area from anyone named Tresten. Lying SOB. 

 

In my opinion, a lot of this also points to piss-poor or nonexistent dealer prep. I also found factory assembly decals on the rear seatbacks which were visible from the rear of the truck along with tape on the inside of the power sliding rear window that should have been removed during dealer prep. Who knows what other stuff (like fixing the cruise control) they didn't do or check during dealer non-prep?

 

Speaking of that, the sales manager also made a big deal of how the delivery driver was going to take the truck to a car wash and detail it before he came to my house which is something else that never happened even though the driver literally told me that he "called three people just to make sure the truck would fit through the automatic car wash" which was less than fifteen miles from my house. Again, lying SOB. I know exactly which car wash that was because I told him to use it and how to get to it during a phone call while he was in route. As I told the sales manager, if there are security cameras at the car wash, they will prove that my truck was never even there. When he got to my house, all four tires had dried mud on them and I later found dried mud inside all four wheel wells which I took photos of and sent to the sales manager. When I questioned the driver about that and the fact that he had just told me the story about the car wash his only response was "I have no idea where that came from." Good grief! My guess is that mud got there during a test drive or some other off-road adventure after it was delivered to the selling dealership and that is also probably when the body damage occurred. Come to think of it, Tresten also told me that his family owns property in Indiana that has "lots of ATV trails". Hmmmm?

 

And dealerships wonder why people hate the whole car buying experience. This one has obviously been an f'ing nightmare!

 

One of my next obvious purchases is going to be a license plate frame that doesn't have that wonderful dealership's name on it.

That situation turned into a complete shit show it sounds like.  I’m thankful that I work directly through a friend when I buy vehicles most of the time.  I have found very few “specialists” while talking to dealers over the years.  Rarely has a salesperson known more than me when speaking about a given vehicle, which I found pretty sad.   
 

Looks like they did a nice job on the truck for you though.

 

I saw that about the Roush kit.   Looks like it puts a little more power out than Fords.  Is there any benefit to purchasing the Ford performance kit over the Roush kit in respect to warranty matters?

[blksn8k2]

20 hours ago, tbone said:

I saw that about the Roush kit.   Looks like it puts a little more power out than Fords.  Is there any benefit to purchasing the Ford performance kit over the Roush kit in respect to warranty matters?

 

That's a really good question but so far I'm not finding any concrete answers. Ultimately, I will probably have to talk to a Roush/Ford Performance dealer such as Beechmont to get the correct info.

 

Anyway, here's what I've found so far.

 

The powertrain warranties seem to be similar but it's hard to find warranty info on the Ford Performance kits for the gen IV Coyote in the F-150. What I have found so far on the FP website only applies to pre-2021 vehicles. You have to sort through all the legalese but it appears as though the FP supercharger warranty might not void the entire factory 5yr/60k mi powertrain warranty the way the Roush warranty does. That's kind of a bummer since the powertrain warranty obviously covers more than just the engine.

 

I'm probably missing something there though and, as I said, what I have found so far doesn't cover post 2020 F-150s anyway.

 

Also, both warranties say they are for 3yr/36k mi but there's a caveat. Both apply from the time of the vehicle's first in-service date, not the date when the kit was installed. So, if you've owned your truck for 6 months and it has 10k miles when the SC kit is installed, your new powertrain warranty that comes with the kit is only good for the next 30 months or 26k miles, whichever comes first. Saying that these kits come with a 3yr/36k mile warranty is a little misleading because that's really only true if the kit is installed before you take delivery of the truck. And, if you put one of these kits on a 4 year old truck you aren't getting any powertrain warranty at all and I assume you would also void whatever is left of the original powertrain warranty, at least in the case of the Roush kits.

 

Again, I haven't seen the warranty data for the '21 and up F-150 kits from Ford yet but I doubt the start date portion has changed. 

 

As I said before, now that there is also a Roush kit that works with Pro Power Onboard I am sort of leaning in that direction, especially since my truck already has the Roush CAI. It also doesn't hurt that the Roush kit is a little less expensive and has a 45 lb ft higher max torque output. But the potential warranty differences are still an issue that could sway me in the other direction.

 

I also mentioned this one before because I thought it was kind of bizarre and, since we're talking about warranties, I thought it was worth mentioning again. I was told by a dealer that with the pre-2021 Coyote in the F-150, Roush would void your powertrain warranty if you replaced the factory gear driven oil pump with a stronger aftermarket billet unit. According to the dealer, Roush did that because they felt that their kit was designed to work within the limitations of the factory oil pump and could not assume that whatever aftermarket pump you used was as good as the factory pump. However, I have seen way too many reports of the factory gears failing in high boost applications. If I had to choose between losing the Roush warranty and potentially destroying an engine, I'm going with the better gears every time, warranty be damned.

That is obviously not the case with the '21-'23 gen IV Coyote in the F-150 since Ford went with a belt driven oil pump on those which can supposedly handle much higher power figures and should not require an upgrade. That to me is a really big deal because not only do you gain a huge amount of reliability, but replacing that oil pump is not inexpensive nor is it a simple task. Thank you Ford for finally getting rid of that weak link! Or so they say...?

[tbone]

1 hour ago, blksn8k2 said:

 

That's a really good question but so far I'm not finding any concrete answers. Ultimately, I will probably have to talk to a Roush/Ford Performance dealer such as Beechmont to get the correct info.

 

Anyway, here's what I've found so far.

 

The powertrain warranties seem to be similar but it's hard to find warranty info on the Ford Performance kits for the gen IV Coyote in the F-150. What I have found so far on the FP website only applies to pre-2021 vehicles. You have to sort through all the legalese but it appears as though the FP supercharger warranty might not void the entire factory 5yr/60k mi powertrain warranty the way the Roush warranty does. That's kind of a bummer since the powertrain warranty obviously covers more than just the engine.

 

I'm probably missing something there though and, as I said, what I have found so far doesn't cover post 2020 F-150s anyway.

 

Also, both warranties say they are for 3yr/36k mi but there's a caveat. Both apply from the time of the vehicle's first in-service date, not the date when the kit was installed. So, if you've owned your truck for 6 months and it has 10k miles when the SC kit is installed, your new powertrain warranty that comes with the kit is only good for the next 30 months or 26k miles, whichever comes first. Saying that these kits come with a 3yr/36k mile warranty is a little misleading because that's really only true if the kit is installed before you take delivery of the truck. And, if you put one of these kits on a 4 year old truck you aren't getting any powertrain warranty at all and I assume you would also void whatever is left of the original powertrain warranty, at least in the case of the Roush kits.

 

Again, I haven't seen the warranty data for the '21 and up F-150 kits from Ford yet but I doubt the start date portion has changed. 

 

As I said before, now that there is also a Roush kit that works with Pro Power Onboard I am sort of leaning in that direction, especially since my truck already has the Roush CAI. It also doesn't hurt that the Roush kit is a little less expensive and has a 45 lb ft higher max torque output. But the potential warranty differences are still an issue that could sway me in the other direction.

 

I also mentioned this one before because I thought it was kind of bizarre and, since we're talking about warranties, I thought it was worth mentioning again. I was told by a dealer that with the pre-2021 Coyote in the F-150, Roush would void your powertrain warranty if you replaced the factory gear driven oil pump with a stronger aftermarket billet unit. According to the dealer, Roush did that because they felt that their kit was designed to work within the limitations of the factory oil pump and could not assume that whatever aftermarket pump you used was as good as the factory pump. However, I have seen way too many reports of the factory gears failing in high boost applications. If I had to choose between losing the Roush warranty and potentially destroying an engine, I'm going with the better gears every time, warranty be damned.

That is obviously not the case with the '21-'23 gen IV Coyote in the F-150 since Ford went with a belt driven oil pump on those which can supposedly handle much higher power figures and should not require an upgrade. That to me is a really big deal because not only do you gain a huge amount of reliability, but replacing that oil pump is not inexpensive nor is it a simple task. Thank you Ford for finally getting rid of that weak link! Or so they say...?

It appears more research is going to be required to shore up the details. It doesn’t feel like Ford is incentivizing you to buy their own product though based on the fact their warranty isn’t integrated with the factory warranty better. I feel like if you buy Ford performance product and have a Ford dealer install it that there should be no impact on warranty at all considering the product was supposed to be engineered to be reliable.

 

I’m looking forward to hearing about the final details on the warranty, etc, and the final install once you pull the trigger. 

[blksn8k2]

I saw a post on another forum from someone who had the Ford Performance SC kit installed on his 2023 5.0L Tremor by the dealer before he took delivery of his truck. I was a little surprised that he did not know that Ford had made some major changes to the 5.0L in the F-150 for the 2021 and newer model years. He said that he did not understand why the dealer had refused to replace the oil pump gears before installing the supercharger. He did not know that Ford had switched to a belt driven oil pump on the F-150 5.0L until I told him which kinda makes me wonder if whoever he was dealing with at the dealership was even aware of that.

[blksn8k2]

Well, I couldn't take the constant rocks bouncing off the bottoms of the running boards any longer so I started looking at different tire options. I decided to try and find a wheel and tire combination that would not require any modifications to the suspension, crash bars, speedometer, etc. while still giving me a more aggressive, off-road look.

 

Keep in mind that I also have a set of 2019 Raptor take-off wheels that I had been using on my 2018 F-150 before I traded it on the Tremor. The Raptor wheels also have a +33mm offset vs the +44mm offset of the stock Tremor wheels.

 

What I settled on was a set of General Grabber X3 tires on the Raptor wheels. I know tbone (just kidding) will give me crap about trying to make my Tremor look like a fake Raptor but I think it actually looks pretty good. The tires are size 33x12.50x17 which makes them almost the same overall diameter as the stock 275/70R18 General Grabber ATX tires but about 1.5" wider and with a much more aggressive tread. The width is also about the same as the base BFG tires used on the Raptor. By using the Raptor wheels I was able to keep the tires from extending too far outside of the body while having zero clearance issues. It couldn't have worked any better if I had planned it that way. LOL 

 

So far I have only installed the one on the driver side front which I did mainly because I wanted to check clearances and the possible need for fender flares before installing all four. I obviously need to clean the wheels as well.

 

Not only do the X3s fit perfectly but they were also about the least expensive tire in that size range. Walmart had that size on sale for about $40 per tire less than Tire Rack plus General had a $100 mail-in rebate on the purchase of four tires.

 

BTW, these are also the same tires I have on the Bronco all-be-it in a slightly different size so I do have some prior experience with this tire design. Tire Rack also did a comparison between these Generals and similar tires from BFG, Firestone and Cooper and rated the Generals the highest.

[tbone]

Haha, I don’t mind.  Since the truck uses Raptor headlights, it does look like a Raptor light with those wheels.  I do think it looks good and I’m glad the setup is meeting your expectations.  However, I’m still looking forward to the supercharger setup?

 

I read there’s a new Ford Performance 800hp setup now for Mustangs so maybe one for the F150 down the road…

[blksn8k2]

4 hours ago, tbone said:

Haha, I don’t mind.  Since the truck uses Raptor headlights, it does look like a Raptor light with those wheels.  I do think it looks good and I’m glad the setup is meeting your expectations.  However, I’m still looking forward to the supercharger setup?

 

I read there’s a new Ford Performance 800hp setup now for Mustangs so maybe one for the F150 down the road…

 

The Coyote in the Mustang is rated about 80 hp more than in the F-150 even without a blower so it doesn't surprise me that it would be about the same difference when both have the same supercharger added.

 

Here's the Tremor with all four new tires installed.