North American Edge to be replaced by EV

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

Automakers didn’t necessarily think that either but they were seeing European countries preparing to ban ICE vehicles and some states here plus the popularity of Tesla.  It would have been foolish to ignore BEVs.  The important thing is Ford hasn’t burned any ICE bridges and can adjust to the actual market as this thing plays out.

So true.

It would also be true to say that Ford over reacted to BEV development as a response to years of inaction or underachievement. When that happens the chances of mistakes or wrong direction thinking can become consequences of “rushing”. Taking a step back, I think all of that process with its faults is probably necessary for Ford to learn what it needs to do properly for mass rollout, I would sooner Ford make and correct mistakes now than trying to fix millions of BEVs on the fly.

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I still think EVs are in their infancy. New battery technologies are only a few years away which could drastically change EVs. Knowing that people keep their vehicles between 8-12 years, why would I buy now? 300 mile range with 30 minute charges today or wait a few years and get twice the range with half the charge time? You don’t have to worry about that with ICE vehicles. They’ve been getting roughly the same mpg my entire life and of course the time to fill up hasn’t changed either.

In fairness, EVs have been around for over 100 years, so “infancy” is relative and in my opinion applies more to lithium battery technology than it does EVs themselves.  As much as automakers tried with cars like GM EV1, lead acid batteries were so limited in range and power that it killed any hope of success.

 

I agree with your other points though I question if much more than 300 miles will be needed when charging locations are plentiful and speeds are in 800~1,000 MPH range; which is already available.  Some cars can already gain +/- 3 hours of driving (200 miles) in about 15 minutes.  More and faster is better but on practical level some cars are already in diminishing-return zone.

[Champs]

49 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

In fairness, EVs have been around for over 100 years, so “infancy” is relative and in my opinion applies more to lithium battery technology than it does EVs themselves.  As much as automakers tried with cars like GM EV1, lead acid batteries were so limited in range and power that it killed any hope of success.

 

I agree with your other points though I question if much more than 300 miles will be needed when charging locations are plentiful and speeds are in 800~1,000 MPH range; which is already available.  Some cars can already gain +/- 3 hours of driving (200 miles) in about 15 minutes.  More and faster is better but on practical level some cars are already in diminishing-return zone.

There are a few more issues than you alluded to. Electric vehicles are expensive. The average price of an electric vehicle is about $18,000 more than the average price of a gas vehicle, and profits have been elusive even at that price point. If electric vehicles made significant environmental progress, that would be one thing. But they don’t. Electric vehicles are not “zero” emissions—they create more emissions than internal combustion engine vehicles when they are produced, and they also cause emissions when they are charged, usually by using electricity generated by burning hydrocarbon fuels. Mining for many of the materials needed for an electric vehicle battery is done nearly exclusively overseas and is dominated by China. America’s lone lithium mine is responsible for about 2% of the world’s annual supply. Traditional cars have never been cleaner: Even President Barack Obama’s EPA head noted they are 99% cleaner than they were just a few decades ago. And let me be clear, I am disproving their argument because I can also disprove the climate change hoax. Not only will electric vehicle mandates cost us more at the dealership, but they will also destroy American jobs. By limiting choice and increasing costs, fewer people will buy cars, hurting auto manufacturers and dealers alike. Auto mechanics, masters at prolonging the life of the internal combustion engine, will also be impacted. America’s farmers would be devastated since more than a third of the corn crop ultimately goes to biofuels. And America’s oil and refining workers would face a heavy blow. That is a huge issue in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Jersey, since all three have major oil refineries and form the epicenter of the refining industry on the East Coast. Before 2021, America was leading the world in oil and fuel production, and we had finally achieved what every president since Richard Nixon dreamed about: energy security. Manufacturing jobs like those found at auto plants and refineries support dozens of other jobs and are the foundation on which an economy can be built. The oil and natural gas industry supports over 700,000 jobs in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware. Why destroy those jobs? Jobs are often impacted by technology, and if electric vehicles end up being a consumer’s choice, that is understandable and the price of progress. But if people want to continue buying internal combustion engine vehicles, these workers could continue to serve their neighbors and provide for their families for decades to come. Internal combustion engine vehicles offer superior range, convenience, and durability at an affordable price. The median internal combustion engine vehicle has a range of 403 miles compared with the median electric vehicle at 234 miles. Extreme weather conditions negatively affect EV’s. And using the heater can reduce that range by some 40%. That means more frequent stops for electric vehicles to charge, and they take much longer than filling up at the pump. Raw materials needed for batteries are extracted at a high human and environmental toll. This includes, for example, child labor, health and safety hazards in informal work, poverty and pollution. Second, a recycling challenge looms over the eleven million tonnes of spent lithium-ion batteries forecast to be discarded by 2030, with few systems in place to enable reuse and recycling in a circular economy for batteries. Most manufacturing of lithium-ion batteries takes place in China, South Korea, and Japan, where electricity generation remains dependent on coal and other hydrocarbon fuels. And how about a $42,000 repair after a very minor accident? Yep, brought to you by the EV. The most brilliant inventors in human history lived 110-140 years ago. We continue to use many of their inventions. They all passed on the EV’s. There are definitely strong reasons to follow their wisdom and judgment. https://rumble.com/v30licc-evs-are-goldilocks-cars-not-too-hot-not-too-cold-or-they-dont-work.html

[silvrsvt]

18 hours ago, Champs said:

 There are definitely strong reasons to follow their wisdom and judgment.

 

Nice copy and paste...

 

Anyways Batteries being used from 100 years ago are not like what are being used in cars today....same with ICE. 

[rmc523]

On 8/26/2023 at 2:53 AM, DeluxeStang said:

If the edge does ev, there will be too much overlap with the mach-e imo. 

 

Except Edge is more upright and rides higher.  To me, they're different.

 

On 8/26/2023 at 8:56 PM, jpd80 said:

I was waiting for when Ford would stop going all out on BEVs and swing back towards hybrids……this was never an either/or decision

 

Yeah, the funny thing is, most of us here have been saying for years hybrids should be the focus as an excellent transitional product as BEVs are fully sorted out.

[silvrsvt]

The only reason EVs are making so much noise is because of the success of Tesla stock price-just follow Ford's stock price over the past year or so with EV announcements.

 

We haven't seen anything officially from Ford saying hey we expect EVs to be X amount of sales in the US for example-they've only been saying about 600K vehicles world wide, which is about 4.2 million cars in 2002...or 14% of total sales.

 

They haven't say thing about whole sale elimination of any products outside of the Edge either and its been said its going to be a transition-with maybe a major increase of EV market share in 5-7 years from now. 

[Chrisgb]

@Champs,

I think the economy has always responded to evolving technology. Today's auto technicians will be tomorrow's battery cell replacement techs, the oil change kid will become the software flasher, or move on to a job where he/she says, "For here or to go?" a lot.

Very few ferriers and lamplighters on unemployment now. Milkmen, TV repairmen, locomotive firemen, all have moved on to something else within my lifetime.

I'm more of a hydrogen fuel cell booster myself. I don't think the EV age will last more than a generation or so. Many of the resources are finite, energy intensive to process, and politically dicey.