BTV to SHV Transferee Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I see the amount of time you spend in GEN to be a specified amount of time instead of forever. SUB to only be paid for 6 months also. I see the educational centers, libraries, work out centers & legal services all gone, unless the UAW fully funds them. Does less than 2% of employees nationwide use those services? Thats just what I have read. ETAP, NVRAP may get increases in funding due to them not funding the other stuff. NESC will be cut do to the lower work force numbers, therefore longer wait time on the phone for you. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker/driver Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 i will vote to strike for anything more they want us to give up with the new contract. the concessions made already with COA, and the wages lost last time we opened the contract have exceeded what was okay to give up. instead of posting what we think we'll lose in '07, how about making it boldly apparent that we are done giving in to satisfy the company. THIS IS THEIR FAULT FOR NEVER LISTENING TO US WHEN WE SCREAMED QUALITY and DESIGN. They put innovation on the back burner decades ago, and now we are paying for a poor business choice. i'm done giving up my future to save the future of the rich suits who don't give a damn about me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I see the amount of time you spend in GEN to be a specified amount of time instead of forever. SUB to only be paid for 6 months also. I see the educational centers, libraries, work out centers & legal services all gone, unless the UAW fully funds them. Does less than 2% of employees nationwide use those services? Thats just what I have read. ETAP, NVRAP may get increases in funding due to them not funding the other stuff. NESC will be cut do to the lower work force numbers, therefore longer wait time on the phone for you. What do you think? i think your wrong and should not 'speculate' on what you think might happen. cant put a time limit on gen...what if your waiting for a plant to open up ? never happen! etap should be increased....i max mine out every year! however i dont call the NESC and that doesn't matter..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Many people say that now is not the time to stand up to the company, times are hard and we are at a critical point. At our plant we see the local doing less, and the company taking more liberties. I say now is the time to stand firm. The company can't afford a strike, they can't affor labor strife, and they don't want to deal with the fall out on Wall Street. We need to draw a reasonable line in the sand and stand firm. Maybe we can let go of legal services and some other little used fluff benefits. But on core issues like job security (gen), wages and health care we need to stand firm. If they try to make this into a second rate company, with second rate benefits, then we have to stand up and let them know that we prefer they go down than for us to give in. Despite what the public may think, we work hard, Assembly and forging, and many other jobs would have a huge turnover if they cut wages significantly. the time to hold firm is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Many people say that now is not the time to stand up to the company, times are hard and we are at a critical point. At our plant we see the local doing less, and the company taking more liberties. I say now is the time to stand firm. The company can't afford a strike, they can't affor labor strife, and they don't want to deal with the fall out on Wall Street. We need to draw a reasonable line in the sand and stand firm. Maybe we can let go of legal services and some other little used fluff benefits. But on core issues like job security (gen), wages and health care we need to stand firm. If they try to make this into a second rate company, with second rate benefits, then we have to stand up and let them know that we prefer they go down than for us to give in. Despite what the public may think, we work hard, Assembly and forging, and many other jobs would have a huge turnover if they cut wages significantly. the time to hold firm is now. I quite agree. The fact of the matter is we could work for free and the Company will always come back wanting more crying poverty. Thats because the more we give them, the more these incompetant bastards in management will throw out the window with their useless programs and paperwork and needless complexity built into the process and the system. Hey Mulally, lets stop spending money on bullshit paperwork and measurables, floral arrangement classes and all the other fluff that we throw cash out the window for and get real pal. Oh hell I could go on and on but I'm just gonna get pissed off and I don't want to so the hell with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendew_15 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hopefully not my job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raws41900 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hopefully not my job. exactly, if i can last that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTV to SHV Transferee Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Many people say that now is not the time to stand up to the company, times are hard and we are at a critical point. At our plant we see the local doing less, and the company taking more liberties. I say now is the time to stand firm. The company can't afford a strike, they can't affor labor strife, and they don't want to deal with the fall out on Wall Street. We need to draw a reasonable line in the sand and stand firm. Maybe we can let go of legal services and some other little used fluff benefits. But on core issues like job security (gen), wages and health care we need to stand firm. If they try to make this into a second rate company, with second rate benefits, then we have to stand up and let them know that we prefer they go down than for us to give in. Despite what the public may think, we work hard, Assembly and forging, and many other jobs would have a huge turnover if they cut wages significantly. the time to hold firm is now. Thank You! Several have gotten gist of this post. All of what I mentioned in the original post is at stake. If we dont stand up for what is most important (Health Insurance,GEN,SUB) now, you can kiss the extras goodbye. Everytime the Family Services sponsors an event and only 1/5% of people in a plant respond or use the event, then the company looks at the UAW and makes a case for not paying for it anymore. If it comes down to it, I can live without the school house, libraries, work out centers. But wages, GEN, Health Insurance,SUB needs to keep being fully funded! If it takes a strike, wheres my sign, I have 2 shoulders! Ready to walk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end of time Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Thank You! Several have gotten gist of this post. All of what I mentioned in the original post is at stake. If we dont stand up for what is most important (Health Insurance,GEN,SUB) now, you can kiss the extras goodbye. Everytime the Family Services sponsors an event and only 1/5% of people in a plant respond or use the event, then the company looks at the UAW and makes a case for not paying for it anymore. If it comes down to it, I can live without the school house, libraries, work out centers. But wages, GEN, Health Insurance,SUB needs to keep being fully funded! If it takes a strike, wheres my sign, I have 2 shoulders! Ready to walk! What about National Seniority?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 What about National Seniority?? As a low seniority person (8 years), I am not fond of the idea, but it may be time to go with it. It certainly doesn't seem fair for me to be working (which I probably won't be), and have people with 20 to 30years on the street. there should be a cut off limit though. people with 30 years or over 65 should not be allowed to transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONSIDES Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 i will vote to strike for anything more they want us to give up with the new contract. the concessions made already with COA, and the wages lost last time we opened the contract have exceeded what was okay to give up. instead of posting what we think we'll lose in '07, how about making it boldly apparent that we are done giving in to satisfy the company. THIS IS THEIR FAULT FOR NEVER LISTENING TO US WHEN WE SCREAMED QUALITY and DESIGN. They put innovation on the back burner decades ago, and now we are paying for a poor business choice. i'm done giving up my future to save the future of the rich suits who don't give a damn about me. To strike is your right, but be prepared to be responsible for the decisions that you make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker/driver Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 To strike is your right, but be prepared to be responsible for the decisions that you make. i just got done studying about the flint, michigan GM strikes back in '36. same shit, different generation. anyone who decides to stay with Ford beyond this buyout should start tucking money away for a possible strike period. i know we talk about this every contract, but now we are getting down to the bottom line of what we can afford to give up. the company issued a statement that there would not be funding for GEN in the next contract, while gettlefinger issued his statement saying we wouldn't work without it. who's bluff do you want to call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Looking at this rationally, it would make sense to compare what you have now with what your next best alternative is. You need to look at what you could find if you were not at Ford. So long as the package that Ford offers is better then your next best scenario, then Ford is still your best choice. If Ford offers less than your next best choice, then you strike, as you have nothing to lose. I left the automotive industry in February when the company sold off my division. I have been fortunate and have managed to find a better opportunity than the automotive sector could offer. I wish I had left earlier. I wish you guys the best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 (edited) When it comes time to vote on the 2007 contract how are we supposed to know what is in it (or isn't in it)? The union puts out a flier that says this, that, and the other thing and that's all we get. Do you really think the concessions we made when they openned the contract passed by 51%? The contract books aren't available for six months after the contract is passed. All we ever vote on is what the UAW wants us to think we're voting on. Edited October 24, 2006 by Atlas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHIOLOCAL863 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I would say plan to give up whatever the UAW wants. They will give up whatever FORD MOTOR COMPANY mandates them to give up. They will bend over and say have at it, take what you want. The UAW will again screw over the workforce. The UAW would like all the workforce to think they did them a huge favor by getting the company to offer buyouts. All this did was protect the plants they wanted to protect. If the UAW was stong they would of told Ford your not going to close any plants. If you annouce your closing any plants, you will have a strike on your hands. They would have demanded the Ford Fusion be built here in the USA. If not, then another strike threat would have been made. The Union and Company are sleeping in the same bed these days. They have been for about the last six years. This shit wouldn't of happend in the 80's or 90's. The elected UAW decision makers are a joke. They don't strike fear in the company. The Union used to control this country, now it's looked at like a big joke. Talk to people who are not affiliated with a Union, they will tell you it's a joke to have one. This mindset wouldn't of existed back in the good ole' days. For the most part American's would purchase cars made in the USA, now they could give a damn where it's made. The Union could chage this by being tough on how this country is run. I'm sure everyone has heard, they used to burn foreign cars in the lots, why do we let it slide today? If the Union would strike fear in the minds of people, like back in the day, We all would have a good paying job!!!!! GET READY, YOUR GOING TO BE HIT HARD NEXT IN 2007! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aai from stl Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 What about National Seniority?? we have national seniority it will take a few more years to really be effective. that is the national contract that says you can transfer with all seniority back to 1984. in a few years look at the impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Grrrl Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 I highly agree with Mechanic on drawing a line and holding firm for this next round of contract talks. 'Core' issues need to be protected for us, and not for the UAW to give in major concessions and still call it a 'victory' for the workforce. I have not totally lost my faith in the UAW and I respect the representation given to me, but I also see a UAW that seems to bend/conform/cave in a little more than what I'm used to. Hell....the numbers on our total workforce are not going to be that large after all the buyouts/layoffs/restructuring anyway, why can't the UAW fight strong for it's remaining members...... .....I also agree with Atlas. How do we truely know what we're voting on when lately there has been a 'history' of not being up front and fully honest with us ? I hate to say that... ...I have mixed feelings on national seniority. Seems like a lot for the Union to police and monitor, I forsee things getting kind f**ked up, even if it's by accident. "WHOOPS, sorry dude on the street, I guess you should't have been laid off after all. My bad." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsRock Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 (edited) I would say plan to give up whatever the UAW wants. They will give up whatever FORD MOTOR COMPANY mandates them to give up. They will bend over and say have at it, take what you want. The UAW will again screw over the workforce. The UAW would like all the workforce to think they did them a huge favor by getting the company to offer buyouts. All this did was protect the plants they wanted to protect. If the UAW was stong they would of told Ford your not going to close any plants. If you annouce your closing any plants, you will have a strike on your hands. They would have demanded the Ford Fusion be built here in the USA. If not, then another strike threat would have been made. The Union and Company are sleeping in the same bed these days. They have been for about the last six years. This shit wouldn't of happend in the 80's or 90's. The elected UAW decision makers are a joke. They don't strike fear in the company. The Union used to control this country, now it's looked at like a big joke. Talk to people who are not affiliated with a Union, they will tell you it's a joke to have one. This mindset wouldn't of existed back in the good ole' days. For the most part American's would purchase cars made in the USA, now they could give a damn where it's made. The Union could chage this by being tough on how this country is run. I'm sure everyone has heard, they used to burn foreign cars in the lots, why do we let it slide today? If the Union would strike fear in the minds of people, like back in the day, We all would have a good paying job!!!!! GET READY, YOUR GOING TO BE HIT HARD NEXT IN 2007! The Unions do not run this country nor will they ever will,,, Thinking like this has gotten you union people where you are now. Force people to buy your cars?! Edited October 25, 2006 by LetsRock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end of time Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 :shrug: I highly agree with Mechanic on drawing a line and holding firm for this next round of contract talks. 'Core' issues need to be protected for us, and not for the UAW to give in major concessions and still call it a 'victory' for the workforce. I have not totally lost my faith in the UAW and I respect the representation given to me, but I also see a UAW that seems to bend/conform/cave in a little more than what I'm used to. Hell....the numbers on our total workforce are not going to be that large after all the buyouts/layoffs/restructuring anyway, why can't the UAW fight strong for it's remaining members...... .....I also agree with Atlas. How do we truely know what we're voting on when lately there has been a 'history' of not being up front and fully honest with us ? I hate to say that... ...I have mixed feelings on national seniority. Seems like a lot for the Union to police and monitor, I forsee things getting kind f**ked up, even if it's by accident. "WHOOPS, sorry dude on the street, I guess you should't have been laid off after all. My bad." I think its good to discuss how contracts affect us all. With National Seniority, my only hope would be that (and I may be wrong) it would help take away the companies ability to pit plant against plant. Its a shame that many of our union brother and sisters only care about themselves. So not only does the Union have to try and outsmart the company but also their own members as to many would sell the rest of us down the drain. :shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker/driver Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 :shrug: I think its good to discuss how contracts affect us all. With National Seniority, my only hope would be that (and I may be wrong) it would help take away the companies ability to pit plant against plant. Its a shame that many of our union brother and sisters only care about themselves. So not only does the Union have to try and outsmart the company but also their own members as to many would sell the rest of us down the drain. :shrug: I doubt the people who are voting for concessions are only thinking of themselves. I'm sure there is a wife, a few kids, maybe even parents who are in their care that they are thinking of. To me, national seniority is selfish. Give me a damn chance to make it with my 7 years in, and only have to worry about higher seniority at my own plant-KCAP. I'm not about to get bumped out of my plant, then turn to another plant and ruin someone else's life. CLICHE ALERT: No one said life was fair. The '84 seniority rule is fair enough in my book. Talk to anybody who came from Ohio to KCAP back in 1984. They came with nothing. No moving allowance, no plant time (only company time). They were happy enough to just keep their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imawhosure Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Back on topic------------------> The very first, the last, and one of the most important things I hope the UAW gives up is, the DAMN DEADBEATS!!!!!! If they give them up, it might lessen the economic blow the rest of the brothers and sisters have to take!!! We have carried them long enough, and now to keep them the company is going to dig into our pockets. Not unless you are going to let the rest of us claim them as a dependent your NOT!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPITYDAFOOL VIRUSFREE Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I doubt the people who are voting for concessions are only thinking of themselves. I'm sure there is a wife, a few kids, maybe even parents who are in their care that they are thinking of. To me, national seniority is selfish. Give me a damn chance to make it with my 7 years in, and only have to worry about higher seniority at my own plant-KCAP. I'm not about to get bumped out of my plant, then turn to another plant and ruin someone else's life. CLICHE ALERT: No one said life was fair. The '84 seniority rule is fair enough in my book. Talk to anybody who came from Ohio to KCAP back in 1984. They came with nothing. No moving allowance, no plant time (only company time). They were happy enough to just keep their job. 84 seniority is too outdated. This is 2007 for crying out loud. From experience the Transfer date, Plant Time, Ford time all need to be updated to the current crisis. If you have X amount of years and there are available slots then the Ford Company seniority should determine whether u get an open slot Unless it deals with Transfer of Operations. I dont believe Anyone who is new to a plant should Bump or be more up the line in seniority when they transfer. Respect the time that the Union Brother has in that paticular facility. This is why they have a Plant Seniority Date. As to Your time with Ford Congradulations that you have so many years but fall in line, and get your PLANT SENIORITY DATE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapped home Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 SLAP had their meeting yesterday to discuss the buyout packages and the international union rep told us that in the next contract he expects Ford will only have to offer you so many job offers before you are let go. He would not say if this was his opinion or the unions. If it was his opinion I thought he should have kept his mouth shut on the issue. If it is the unions stance on GEN even before talks begin then they need to be tarred and feathered. The reason GEN was created was to make outsourcing our jobs to expensive. Now that Ford decideds to build them in Mexico anyway Interanational gets on its knees and asks if they should swllow of if its ok to spit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanic Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I thought there was a limit now of three offers before you were let go? depending on if you were laid off due to volume or outsourcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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