Toyota Tundra

[silvrsvt]

Ford 3rd quarter loss = 5.8billion.

The plan is working quite well so far. :happy feet:

 

Guess you never heard of write offs huh?

[RichardJensen]

Yeah. The plan is the $3B in writeoffs. NOT having the $3B in writeoffs is worse. Means you're not reducing capacity to meet demand.

[toyboxrv]

Ford truck buyers can back up their claims, because the F-150 and up Ford trucks are far superior to anything toyota has put out.

 

As for the claim that "toyota can put out a far superior truck if they wanted to" sounds like sour grapes to me. If they can , why dont they???

 

It's the same reason that the 500 ended up as an IIHS Gold Pick for scoring Good in all 3 of their test crashes and the 07 Camry can't. All that money that Toyota has doesn't make their engineers any smarter.

 

It would seem that bec is the one naive for thinking that a company like Toyota that hasn't figured out how full size trucks are made would suddenly be considered a slam dunk to make a segment leader. Guess that is what kool aid does for people.

[bec5150]

Where..in...the...hell..did I say the Toyota truck was going to be a slam dunk?

 

Where?

 

Where?

 

RJ, they're picking on me!!

[RichardJensen]

Where..in...the...hell..did I say the Toyota truck was going to be a slam dunk?

 

Where?

 

Where?

 

RJ, they're picking on me!!

Hey.

 

You know what you said. I know what you said.

 

In fact, I believe your exact words were: "even if Toyota made a dead ringer for the F-150, superior in all ways, I don't think folks are gonna flock to the Toyota dealer."

[toyboxrv]

Too much vagueness, too much "I am assuming" and "I would guess." You don't know anything about the Tundra and, to be sure, neither do I. "It has likely not been subjected to the kind of extreme...." Come on, Richard. Are you really so naive as to think that Toyota is going to market a truck that is not up to the task? You state that the Tundra has a bad reputation in certain quarters. What is that supposed to mean?

 

I am guessing that the F-150 is held in a pretty low regard in certain quarters. So is the CR-V, and the Ranger. So what. It's all opinion, it's all just throwing stones, right? You got any facts? Guess not...

 

This is the kind of thinking that got Ford in the hole. You already have stated that you "assume it's likely that it could be true that perhaps the Toyota is a POS. How fitting you post such fertilizer this close to the election.

 

How about "We have no idea what the Tundra is like, bad or good" and leave it at that?

 

Your quote above indicates that you think Richard is naive to think Toyota would not market a truck not up to the task.

 

That would appear to me to be your belief that the Tundra being a success is a slam dunk. Based on the past 14 years I haven't seen an indication they can build a truck up to the task.

 

I guess we are picking on you for bringing your own words into the debate. So give us links to the various Honda sites you go to where you post praise about your Ranger.

[06StangAwesomecar]

Your quote above indicates that you think Richard is naive to think Toyota would not market a truck not up to the task.

 

That would appear to me to be your belief that the Tundra being a success is a slam dunk. Based on the past 14 years I haven't seen an indication they can build a truck up to the task.

 

I guess we are picking on you for bringing your own words into the debate. So give us links to the various Honda sites you go to where you post praise about your Ranger.

Yup, that wont happen.

[bec5150]

Your quote above indicates that you think Richard is naive to think Toyota would not market a truck not up to the task.

 

That would appear to me to be your belief that the Tundra being a success is a slam dunk. Based on the past 14 years I haven't seen an indication they can build a truck up to the task.

 

I guess we are picking on you for bringing your own words into the debate. So give us links to the various Honda sites you go to where you post praise about your Ranger.

First of all, you are the biased one. You have not driven, ridden in, used for work, or in any other way used a Toyota Tundra. I dont' see how you are qualified to say that with any degree of accuracy what kind of truck Toyota makes, good or bad.

 

Second, if you go out to Hondasuv.com and look on their forum under "clinical rounds", you will see that there is no blind faith nor is there any excuses made. When Honda lays an egg, and they do from time to time, folks discuss it out there. Many MANY Honda owners also own, enjoy, discuss, and *GASP* even LIKE their Ford truck. I don't have to defend my Ranger on a Honda board because there is no one talking "down" about it. We know a good vehicle when we see it. That's why I, as many other Honda owners, bought a Ford truck...and a Honda.

 

It all goes back to the truth. The truth is that any discussion of Toyota or Honda that isn't mud slinging is considered a Japanese lover on this board. I didn't say that Toyota is going to be the second coming of "truck Jesus." I never said it would be the best half ton and whip Fords but. All I said, and I do mean ALL I said was that it woudl be competitive. You stated that by saying that, I meant slam dunk. Those are your words, not mine.

 

If RJ got "Jap lover" out of my post, I would probably consider my words. But you? Get a grip, man. You ain't nothing but a pro Ford troll that makes something outta nothin...slam dunk out of "competitive."

 

Wanna start slinging mud? Go do it with someone else. Leave me the hell out of it.

[marc-o]

First of all, you are the biased one. You have not driven, ridden in, used for work, or in any other way used a Toyota Tundra. I dont' see how you are qualified to say that with any degree of accuracy what kind of truck Toyota makes, good or bad.

 

Second, if you go out to Hondasuv.com and look on their forum under "clinical rounds", you will see that there is no blind faith nor is there any excuses made. When Honda lays an egg, and they do from time to time, folks discuss it out there. Many MANY Honda owners also own, enjoy, discuss, and *GASP* even LIKE their Ford truck. I don't have to defend my Ranger on a Honda board because there is no one talking "down" about it. We know a good vehicle when we see it. That's why I, as many other Honda owners, bought a Ford truck...and a Honda.

 

It all goes back to the truth. The truth is that any discussion of Toyota or Honda that isn't mud slinging is considered a Japanese lover on this board. I didn't say that Toyota is going to be the second coming of "truck Jesus." I never said it would be the best half ton and whip Fords but. All I said, and I do mean ALL I said was that it woudl be competitive. You stated that by saying that, I meant slam dunk. Those are your words, not mine.

 

If RJ got "Jap lover" out of my post, I would probably consider my words. But you? Get a grip, man. You ain't nothing but a pro Ford troll that makes something outta nothin...slam dunk out of "competitive."

 

Wanna start slinging mud? Go do it with someone else. Leave me the hell out of it.

 

 

I'm gonna step in (thigh-high in the mud) and say that this is absolutely true. I have frequented several forums, and I have to say BON is *the* most harshly biased I've seen. I've seen Honda forum reviews bash new Honda's features, content, price, styling, you name it. Same for VW, Nissan, BMW, etc... At the end of the day, some mistakes are either tolerable, or they just don't sell and are widely aknowledged as flops. I don't know why everything here has to be import/domestic, hit/miss, all or nothing. It's ridiculous.

 

Anyone who says everything Ford has made is good is a liar. It's also fact that anyone who says everything Toyota has made is bad is a liar.

 

There's plenty of other discourse here that keeps me coming back, but for crying out loud, some of this garbage is like arguing which beer is better or what kind of pizza is best...

[Guest Sixcav]

Michelob Lager and New York hand tossed!!!!!! lol

[bec5150]

Michelob Lager and New York hand tossed!!!!!! lol

Michelob Amber Bock and Chicago Deep Dish...from Geno's East preferably.

Edited November 9, 2006 by bec5150

[Guest Sixcav]

LOL, the amber is a good choice. Deep dish is obvious, is there any other kind of pizza? lol

[RichardJensen]

Nah. Old Style and Old Chicago Warsteiner Beer Sausage

[bec5150]

That's it!! BON Pizza party...gotta use the UAW hall for something?

 

Time and place??

[toyboxrv]

First of all, you are the biased one. You have not driven, ridden in, used for work, or in any other way used a Toyota Tundra. I dont' see how you are qualified to say that with any degree of accuracy what kind of truck Toyota makes, good or bad.

 

Second, if you go out to Hondasuv.com and look on their forum under "clinical rounds", you will see that there is no blind faith nor is there any excuses made. When Honda lays an egg, and they do from time to time, folks discuss it out there. Many MANY Honda owners also own, enjoy, discuss, and *GASP* even LIKE their Ford truck. I don't have to defend my Ranger on a Honda board because there is no one talking "down" about it. We know a good vehicle when we see it. That's why I, as many other Honda owners, bought a Ford truck...and a Honda.

 

It all goes back to the truth. The truth is that any discussion of Toyota or Honda that isn't mud slinging is considered a Japanese lover on this board. I didn't say that Toyota is going to be the second coming of "truck Jesus." I never said it would be the best half ton and whip Fords but. All I said, and I do mean ALL I said was that it woudl be competitive. You stated that by saying that, I meant slam dunk. Those are your words, not mine.

 

If RJ got "Jap lover" out of my post, I would probably consider my words. But you? Get a grip, man. You ain't nothing but a pro Ford troll that makes something outta nothin...slam dunk out of "competitive."

 

Wanna start slinging mud? Go do it with someone else. Leave me the hell out of it.

 

I have never blindly defended a Ford product. I did drive a Tundra with around 50k miles and I thought the wind must have been blowing because of the way it wandered all over the road. My 94 with 239k is getting a little loose although better than that Tundra, but with original tie rod ends and pitman and idler arm, I think that should be expected. I don't think I should have expected that from a much newer vehicle, maybe you do. The Tundra has a foot shorter wheelbase that could be part of the problem and a rear axle well forward of where mine is. Isn't the right design for even towing a moderate 5th wheel like I do. It's not worth giving up stability and the safety that goes with it for a truck that built it's reputation because Toyota car people like Toyota cars. It also is lacking over a 100 ft lbs of torque compared to mine.

 

I've put over 750k miles on just trucks, so yes I am qualified to know something about them and what it takes to have one capable of doing the job.

 

You did say that Richard is naive to think that Toyota would market a truck not up to the task. Sounds like blind faith to me in Toyota's ability to make a competitive truck. Because I stretched that to slam dunk doesn't seem like a gross misinterpretation of your belief.

 

My prediction for the first year is 150k units, with most coming from former Tundra and Tacoma owners. After that the realization that they won't need near the capacity they have. Their PR machine, which performs better than their Tundra, will come up with some excuse that they need the space for some other vehicle and will be limiting Tundra production because of their social awareness of selling so many of such a non green vehicle or some other equally stupid excuse.

 

Sorry I made you blow a gasket. Maybe if you had Ford gaskets that wouldn't have happened. :shades:

[bec5150]

You did say that Richard is naive to think that Toyota would market a truck not up to the task. Sounds like blind faith to me in Toyota's ability to make a competitive truck. Because I stretched that to slam dunk doesn't seem like a gross misinterpretation of your belief.

 

 

Sorry I made you blow a gasket. Maybe if you had Ford gaskets that wouldn't have happened. :shades:

Again, strecting my statement to slam dunk is your words, not mine, and an opinion shared by few.

 

As far as "Ford gaskets", my father owned one of the Windstar disposible 3.8L engines. Don't tell me about Ford gaskets...sore, SORE subject.

[oldracer]

I just read every post in this thread....there's 45 minutes I'm not getting back in my life.

 

Here is a suggestion for proper debate/disagreement/ranting:

 

All of you made your point early in the thread, some maybe more articulately than others, but hey education varies...

 

Then you all just got pissy and defensive with each other and do not ever indicate that the other side may have a point.....blind loyalty to anything or anybody usually doesn't end well..

 

Here's my old man opinion; I have owned just about 1 of of everything over the last 44 years since I bought my first car at 14, (1939 Plymouth woods car), they all have good points and bad points....

they are just machines we get attached to or not... emotion is provided by owner.

 

I have owned Honda motorcycles, 1 Acura, NO Toyotas ever....I simply don't like them, they are nice dependable appliances, I like some spirit in my vehicles- they fail that test.

 

I have also had Vette's 911's, Mopars, Fords up the ying yang, tons of VW's, all good I might add except 1,

1968 Z28, 6 340 Dart & Dusters, 1956 Chevy 6 cyl PU....you get the idea...I had a lot of cars & trucks in my life so far.

 

I am satisfied with my Fords, but they could definitely be even better than they are at this point... We love our 2007 V8 ST LTD, I like my Focus ST - for what it is: Cheap commuter car that is a lot better than I anticipated it to be.

 

My next vehicle will have to be snow friendly as we are moving back to Boston next year, my short list of candidates follows with some comments.

Oh, yes I have driven each and every one of them already, although minus the snowplow in the F-250 case.

 

Present garage items:

 

1) 2007 Suburban LTZ - it's on the list 'cause I already own it and it is a Tow vehicle

 

2) 2007 V8 Sport Trac LTD 2 WD....again I already own it and I can drive in the snow with TC and Limited slip...

 

3) 2005 Focus ST - Cheap 100 mile/day commuter throwawy car - as a minimum better than Civic and Corolla by a mile, and more power too....not going to Boston probably

 

Candidates:

1) Audi Avant - DSG Quattro, blast to drive and I like the look and performance, my daily driver

 

2) F-250 diesel - I need a snowplow truck for an 800 foot driveway, nuff said there

 

3) Porsche Cayenne Turbo S - because that is what my wife wants for her company car....yes dear! covers that.

 

4) 2007 Z06 for me, for summer, because I want one. (and I'm gonna get a helluva deal too from cuz)

(See my road test posted on the Mustang thread from my Oct drive of a 2007 Z06)

 

I find that in my twilight years I'm drawn to more exotic vehicles and more performance as well.

A car lover still.

 

I can at this stage of my life afford to indulge us as well, so my house plans I'm drawing have a 6 car garage (36X60 with shop), drawn up and being tweaked...... some of the sharper amongst you would notice that my list = 6 vehicles - coincidence?, probably not......

 

Focus ST will be disposed of prior to leaving to a good home.

 

To recap: 2 Fords, 2 Chevys, an Audi and a Porsche: where are the Toyotas and Hondas? Hmmmm

I guess I don't want one that bad.

 

I will also have a new Mustang at some point, because life without one is boring....

 

I have driven a Tundra my buddy owns, nice driveleine, NOT a threat to GM, Ford and Dodge by any stretch at this point. I can't imagine plowing 3 feet of snow and ice with one...but that's just me.

[NLPRacing]

...I have frequented several forums, and I have to say BON is *the* most harshly biased I've seen...

 

I agree, but I have theory as to why. A lot of Ford fans are very passionate (myself included). And there has been a lot of bad press about Ford lately (some deservedly so, some not). Plus you have all these Monday morning CEO's claiming how they could "save" Ford by making everything RWD with 500HP V8's, or import 10,000,000 cars a year from Europe & Australia, or give the F150 a 20,000 lb towing capacity while lightening it down to 2000 lbs and make it get 68 mpg, etc. My point is, when people criticize something you love, sometimes it makes you want to fight back. When things stabilize and Ford starts to make a profit again, the tone of this forum will change back to the way it was a few years ago when our biggest complaint was that the 99 Cobra didn't make the advertised horsepower.

[retro-man]

they are just machines we get attached to or not... emotion is provided by owner.

 

I have owned Honda motorcycles, 1 Acura, NO Toyotas ever....I simply don't like them, they are nice dependable appliances, I like some spirit in my vehicles- they fail that test.

 

 

Funny, the one old car I would have back if I could was my '64 Toyopet Tiara. I loved it because it made me feel I was "not of this world" - as if I were a denizen of some alternate universe. I have only seen one other besides my own in my entire life. That's more than enough "spirit" for me. When I traded it (a move I've regretted countless times) it had 225,000 miles on it.

 

I owned it when I began dating my wife. She used to sit on the bench seat next to me, with my arm around her, and move the 3-on-the-tree shifter for me, while I worked the clutch. Attached are some photos of one like it that sold recently on e-bay motors for around $7k. Would love to have it back, restored. Mine was originally black (repainted to red by a previous owner when I owned it), with red and black interior.

 

BTW, someone once said that the "soul", of a Toyota is its excellence - it's flawless reliability. That is its character. (That statement should bring a few out of the woodwork, eager to talk about Toyota's recent recalls.) Again, and with pleasure, I offer the "Top Gear" segment on the Toyota truck as evidence.

[Bluecon]

"Yes, well, this time out, Toyota’s not bringing a knife to a gun fight. The '07 Tundra is bigger, tougher-looking and more capable than its predecessor, from its industrial strength air conditioner to its promised "class leading" towing capacity. And Toyota’s going in with their eyes open: "We've been competing with Ford, GM and Dodge for 50 years," Toyota PR flack Denise Morrissey told the DTN. "We know the full-size market is very loyal and smart. Once they get familiar with the Tundra, get to know it, I think they will consider it. Loyalty is definitely key in this market, but it will only get you so far.""

 

 

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2613

Edited November 9, 2006 by Bluecon

[silvrsvt]

"Yes, well, this time out, Toyota’s not bringing a knife to a gun fight. The '07 Tundra is bigger, tougher-looking and more capable than its predecessor, from its industrial strength air conditioner to its promised "class leading" towing capacity. And Toyota’s going in with their eyes open: "We've been competing with Ford, GM and Dodge for 50 years," Toyota PR flack Denise Morrissey told the DTN. "We know the full-size market is very loyal and smart. Once they get familiar with the Tundra, get to know it, I think they will consider it. Loyalty is definitely key in this market, but it will only get you so far.""

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2613

 

 

Sounds good but didnt they say the same thing about the Titan, and it still hasn't sold more then 100K units in a year?

[Bluecon]

Guess you never heard of write offs huh?

 

 

Yeah. The plan is the $3B in writeoffs. NOT having the $3B in writeoffs is worse. Means you're not reducing capacity to meet demand.

OH OH! Now the cat is out of the bag.

Fords' secret strategy to lose $5.8billion every quarter.

Should have kept this secret out of the competitions hands.

Edited November 9, 2006 by Bluecon

[silvrsvt]

OH OH! Now the cat is out of the bag.

Fords' secret strategy to lose $5.8billion every quarter.

Should have kept this secret out of the competitions hands.

 

And where do you get that Ford is losing that same amount every quarter?

[toyboxrv]

Again, strecting my statement to slam dunk is your words, not mine, and an opinion shared by few.

 

As far as "Ford gaskets", my father owned one of the Windstar disposible 3.8L engines. Don't tell me about Ford gaskets...sore, SORE subject.

 

You attacked my ability to judge a Tundra or having adequate knowledge of trucks. I didn't see your response to my points on that. Does that mean you concede I was correct?

 

I've had some 3.8L V6s and none of them blew head gaskets. My GF Continental had 140k on it and her son pretty much trashed the car. I put the engine in a Taurus wagon and within a few months the new owner was overheating it until it quit and thought it was my fault the head gasket failed. The engine in that wagon was replaced because the former owner had a radiator failure and kept driving it The shop changed out the radiator without checking to see if the engine had suffered damage from the overheating. I guess if your not smart enough to keep an eye on a temp gauge that it's likely to have a gasket failure.

[bec5150]

So you are saying the well documented, 3.8L problems are due to folks not being able to read a temperature gauge?

 

As far as your ability to judge trucks, I think your ability to be biased superseeds any knowledge you have of trucks. Your statements in reference to the 3.8L gasket issues supports that.

 

But if it makes you feel better, I'll tell you and everyone that you are right. Sure, why not. The Tundra is a POS even though I said it was the most wonderful truck in the world.

 

There, now don't you feel better??