F-150 upgraded to tow 11,000 pounds

[HoustonPerson]

Extreme4x4

You have only proven you can not read. Hope it gets better.

[Extreme4x4]

And you have proven that you cannot write, or comprehend. Hope it gets better.

[silvrsvt]

It's not just the tranny, the 5.4 is a boat anchor, 6 speed, 7 speed, 5 million speeds, it doesn't matter, it just doesn't make the power to pull it's own hefty weight. If you think otherwise, you haven't been in one.

 

220 wheel horsepower for a 6000 pound truck and you guys blame the tranny!

 

 

Uh guess you haven't read any reviews on the new Expedition with the 6 speed, I haven't seen one say its under powered and it has the same ole 5.4L in it.

 

This topic has been beat to death here, basically the 1st gear in the current F-150 is too high..and compare acceleration of trucks and SUV to the F-150 with a 5.4L and you'll see very similar numbers after 0-60

[HoustonPerson]

And you have proven that you cannot write, or comprehend. Hope it gets better.

 

Thank you Extreme 4x4 at least you’re being civil.

[toyboxrv]

And you have proven that you cannot write, or comprehend. Hope it gets better.

I'm with you on this, Houston Person doesn't seem to understand that people more knowledgeable than him can disagree with his/her limited knowledge.

[silvrsvt]

I wouldn't use that as a comparison, and like you stated the 6-speed brought it alive. Instead, use the Mustang/Explorer 3v 4.6. The 3v 4.6 puts out just about the same performance, but with less displacement.

 

 

Why? the 5.4L has more toque then the 4.6L does

[cheri/ck]

3v 4.6 with a slightly different tune mated to a six speed trans, and you won't need what little difference is left in the torque curve to justify pumping fuel into the other .8L of engine.

 

 

And, maybe lose that 800 pounds the trucks gained in 2004. The 4.6 could shine in the right truck. Ford simply has never chosen to put it in the right truck - yet. Maybe things will change. I'm holding out for something from Ford that is an improvement for the personal use market. I neither want or need a 3/4 ton truck again and that is what the F-150 has become.

 

Those of you complaining about Ford's automatic tranny in the F-150 are right in my opinion. Babying one much past 100,000 miles is difficult. We have had one expire behind a 5.4 at 95,000 miles, original owner and it had more than routine service. The truck never towed anything. And, the dealers charge $2,300 for a Ford rebuilt 4R100 tranny. Not something to be particularly happy about.

 

I have usually had manual transmissions and the automatic in my 1999 F-150 4X4 and 5.4 does not make me long for anything but manual transmissions. I can set the cruise on my 2003 Ranger 4X4, 4.0 with 5-speed manual and the truck holds grades at our high altitude with no problem. If I set the cruise at the same speed, same road on the 1999 F-150 4X4/5.4 with automatic, the thing downshifts on every little hill and does so very harshly - enough to remind you to just shut off cruise.

 

The automatic tranny in the 1999 F-150 is the only thing I don't like about this truck. It has 90,000 miles on it and has done some work here and there towing boats. The truck is trouble-free so far - I just hate that harsh transmission. But, it's not awful on gas mileage - probably has averaged close to 16 mpg over its lifetime with a highway mileage high of 17 mpg on an extended interstate trip.

[silvrsvt]

Is the Transmission in the F-150 in any shape or form close to what they use in the post 02 Explorer?

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I believe the post 02 Explorers had 5ATs all across the board. The F-150 hasn't had a 5AT a day in its life. The tranny behind the 5.4L is normally the 4R100. Its a sturdy transmission with decent reliability ratings. Its also got above average parasitic drag figures (can't find the ones I had post Katrina) and a crummy first gear ratio for most people's uses. I don't have much experience with them as I have rarely driven a vehicle with them. My F-150 has the 4.2L V6 with the 4R75W, which is another disappointing combo which achieved 15.9mpg in the heavy city mix of my driving in an extended cab short bed, and that was after the improvement (.5mpg) that the K&N filter made in it.

 

The problems most have identified in the current F-150 are its excessive weight and the first gear in the transmission. Now, the number of gears is becoming an issue as the competition now averages 5 or more gears (with GM soon to be offering 6 speeds in their half tons). Hopefully, the next full redo of the F-150 will bring with it less weight and better powertrain options.

[HoustonPerson]

I have driven 5 F250's with the 5 speed auto and 5.4Lgas (they are very hard to find - rare), and have towed once with that combination (2-2005 and 3-2006). Each short distances, and only about 50-70 miles each. The tow was with a 5,000 trailer. That powertrain combination is very good, no tranny power loss at all, locks into gear and usually stays there.

 

Empty the F250 feels like it has about double the power of the F150; more importantly it could actually tow, and finally - a very unscientific test (vs the detailed testing I have done before on a repetitive 150 mile test loop) - it was able to get about 11mpg, something the F150 can not begin to approach.

 

The engines that are getting toasted or trashed in the F150 from towing is caused by the excessive high rpm, mostly from the torque converter unable to lock up. I do not know of any that have overheated, most of the destruction takes place in the valve train from the excessive RPM. Have you ever noticed how some F150's are butter smooth "quiet" and others sound like a garbage disposal with bones in them. Those that have been doing some towing with trailers or boats on a routine weekend basis, in the 5,000 to 8,000lb range are making a lot of noise. You can easily hear at idle in the drive way. At 30,000 miles on the meter it will usually be pretty bad, if that truck has been doing some towing. If your going to Home Depot to get two bags of peat moss it will not be a problem; and that is a very high percentage of F150 owners.

 

If Ford were to actually use the 5 speed instead of the current 4 speed in the F150, they could finally probably meet their so called towing rating of 8,000 lbs in 4x4 Lariat CC loaded out form. That is an exceptionally important demographic to Ford (4x4 Lariat/top drawer), the would be best served by not overlooking it. MPG would go way up too.

[Edstock]

"The engines that are getting toasted or trashed in the F150 from towing is caused by the excessive high rpm, mostly from the torque converter unable to lock up."

 

No. The lock-up on the torque converter would have nothing to do with an engine getting toasted. You see, the lock-up function eliminates a 3-5% 'slip', where the engine or input side of the torque converter is at, say, 5,000 rpm, the driven, ot tranny side is doing around 4,900 rpm. The difference to engine health is of no consequence. The slip essentially results in a slightly lower final drive ratio. that's all. Because a lot of lock-up systems cannot take shock loadings of rough service, lock-up de-activation is common, to keep the tranny alive.

 

The engine problem originates elsewhere. It sounds like the truck is being made to tow things that are too heavy, considering the torque curve of the engines.

[HoustonPerson]

Edstock, yes you are correct; I should have completed my statement - but felt I covered that several posts back. Not only is the torque converter not locking up; but the tranny is staying 3rd or 2nd instead of 4th............it does not do that in the F250 5.4L with 5 speed on the same course, load, and speed........only the F150 does that. The F150 is not able to tow 8,000 lbs at legal hi-way speed and stay in 4th gear, even on flat ground 90% of the they stay in 3rd and very often 2nd. Hence the absolutely terrible gas mileage. The engine does not hold up well staying at very high rpm for mile after mile. About the only time you can get them into 4 th is to drop to 50mph, then it lugs and would naturally downshift. As I said the F250 with the same engine does not do that, and consistently gets 30% to 50% better mileage when towing 5,000 to 8,000 lb trailer (boats).

[Extreme4x4]

Is the Transmission in the F-150 in any shape or form close to what they use in the post 02 Explorer?

 

The transmission in the pre '02, and all V6 Explorers is the 5R55E. I was under the impression that this same transmission is used in the newer Explorers also, just that it uses the beefed up version used in the Mustang, for the V8 versions.

 

This transmission dates back to the A4LD, which then became the 4R44E, then the 4R55E, then the 5R55E. The fifth gear is actually a second second gear, and is made by splitting first gear with overdrive. It is a technology that has been used for years by off-road racing................. and primarily with the A4LD.

 

The transmissions for the F150 are the 4R70/75W, and the 4R100. The 4R70/75W is a decendant to the AOD/AODE, and the 4R100 is actually a distant decendant of the C6.

 

The transmission going into overdrive, or not going into overdrive........................... or the converter locking or not locking has absolutally nothing to do with the engine, and everything to do with the transmission.

 

I sure am glad that HP clarified that there have been no actual failures of the 5.4's................... just as I suspected.

 

The auto repair and towing business that we had was in mountainous country, on a major highway. The majority of trucks on that highway were towing, and the majority of those were Fords. They were not towing 3-4000 lbs. They were towing 6-8,000 lb travel trailers. We NEVER saw a 5.4 failure. We only saw 1 newer Ford auto tranny failure, and that was a 4R100 in a 30ft motorhome. We saw alot of GM transmission failures..................... and a good number of Dodge ones also. This was in 9 years, where we were the only towing company for 100 miles to the south of us, and 30 miles to the north. 1 of only 2 for 180 miles to the south, and 140 miles to the north. Thus, I don't usually talk out my ass.

[kenp77]

The transmission in the pre '02, and all V6 Explorers is the 5R55E. I was under the impression that this same transmission is used in the newer Explorers also, just that it uses the beefed up version used in the Mustang, for the V8 versions.

 

This transmission dates back to the A4LD, which then became the 4R44E, then the 4R55E, then the 5R55E. The fifth gear is actually a second second gear, and is made by splitting first gear with overdrive. It is a technology that has been used for years by off-road racing................. and primarily with the A4LD.

 

The transmissions for the F150 are the 4R70/75W, and the 4R100. The 4R70/75W is a decendant to the AOD/AODE, and the 4R100 is actually a distant decendant of the C6.

 

The transmission going into overdrive, or not going into overdrive........................... or the converter locking or not locking has absolutally nothing to do with the engine, and everything to do with the transmission.

 

I sure am glad that HP clarified that there have been no actual failures of the 5.4's................... just as I suspected.

 

The auto repair and towing business that we had was in mountainous country, on a major highway. The majority of trucks on that highway were towing, and the majority of those were Fords. They were not towing 3-4000 lbs. They were towing 6-8,000 lb travel trailers. We NEVER saw a 5.4 failure. We only saw 1 newer Ford auto tranny failure, and that was a 4R100 in a 30ft motorhome. We saw alot of GM transmission failures..................... and a good number of Dodge ones also. This was in 9 years, where we were the only towing company for 100 miles to the south of us, and 30 miles to the north. 1 of only 2 for 180 miles to the south, and 140 miles to the north. Thus, I don't usually talk out my ass.

You may not talk out your ass but you sure don't know anything about fords 04 5.4 3v and up spark plug problem which hasn't been fixed to date to the best of my knowlege, yes they don't blow out now but if you run them to 50-70K you can't get them out from carbon build up on the plug and such a small hole in the head and it just pulls them in half leaving the ground electrode in the head, check it out

[Blueblood]

Jesus people, just because a car or truck has a tranny with a low performance gearset means little if the engine has enough power, look at all the drag racers that use the GM 2 speeds, how do you think they overcome the skyscraper tall first gear? Face it, the mod motors are huge, heavy, and gutless in stock form in this application, exactly why the Hurricane is being developed. I've seen dyno charts of stock F-150's only putting out 220 wheel horsepower from the 5.4, I don't remember the torque numbers, but they were un-impressive too. It's down 100 horsepower to the new Toyota engine right now, 2 gears, and it's heavier.

[silvrsvt]

look at all the drag racers that use the GM 2 speeds, how do you think they overcome the skyscraper tall first gear?

 

but real cars don't run 1/4 drag runs either...and having over 800HP helps alot too...

 

Why is the mod such a boat anchor if it can beat out the 5.3L V8 in the new GMT9000 SUVs with just a 6 speed tranny?

[cheri/ck]

but real cars don't run 1/4 drag runs either...and having over 800HP helps alot too...

 

Why is the mod such a boat anchor if it can beat out the 5.3L V8 in the new GMT9000 SUVs with just a 6 speed tranny?

 

 

Frankly, I think the mod engines were pretty good for their mid to late 90's engineering. They are just getting old now. The piston slap problem got to be big for a while and that was when those problematic heads were first re-designed in 1998/1999. Then we had the spark-plug blowing issues surface which are real and something that still angers me against Ford - not even covering engines with factory installed (probably improperly torqued at the factory) plugs blowing out within the factory recommended 100,000 mile service. And, now the new 3-valve version of the engine has rust/carbon problems with the plugs. No they don't blow out any more - they just don't usually come out in one piece anywhere near the normal 100,000 maintenance level. And, of course, this is also not a problem Ford recognizes.

 

If Ford had kept these spark plug issues off the internet by standing behind their product then there would not be nearly so much mod motor bashing. And, maybe they would be selling more trucks too and not be so vulnerable to new Japanese alternatives. Yes, the automatic transmissions are not great behind these engines, but at least they were somewhat better than GM and Dodge in terms of reliability.

 

Ford has literally thrown away a good many loyal customers due to their lack of customer support and not just with the F-150, but also with the 6.0 Powerstroke engine. I think it will be interesting to see how the new Tundra fares. It is not really all that innovative, but it is also probably quite competitive with the F-150. If Nissan had designed their Titan without so many problems, it would have done much better. That truck will be out with a redesign soon and would imagine the driveline problems (brakes/rear differential) will go away. At least Nissan has recognized their problems with the current Titan and tried for several years now to remedy those problems usually at no cost to their customers - something that has not gone un-noticed and that will probably keep some of those customers with problematic trucks.

 

People really do like powerful and quick engine/tranny combinations in half-ton trucks. And, they also like the notion that the manufacturer stands behind their product. Lately, Ford has had neither.

[range]

since this thread went off topic a long time ago, might as well keep it off topic...

 

 

"Livonia Transmission Plant received $88 million to install flexible tooling to increase its production of a fuel-efficient, high performance 6-speed, rear-wheel drive transmission for the 2009 Ford F-150. "

 

Edited January 10, 2007 by range

[Extreme4x4]

You may not talk out your ass but you sure don't know anything about fords 04 5.4 3v and up spark plug problem which hasn't been fixed to date to the best of my knowlege, yes they don't blow out now but if you run them to 50-70K you can't get them out from carbon build up on the plug and such a small hole in the head and it just pulls them in half leaving the ground electrode in the head, check it out

 

Hmmm, thats funny................ but I don't recall seeing anything about spark plugs in my post. The only thing that was mentioned about plugs at all, was earlier in the thread, and it was in reference to the 2-valve motors.

 

While we have not had our shop since early '03, (had it for 9 years, and yes I wrenched also) I follow all the boards, and have read various things about the difficult to remove plugs (overreaction to the plug blowing bs). As with other "issues," if properly done, and not forced or muscled, they come out (with the addition of spray lube, worked into the threads and metal). A pain for sure, but better than breaking plugs off. Apparently the dealer doesn't even need to remove the head now, if they do break, as they have special tools for the extraction.

 

BTW, you didn't have to be an ass about it. My comments were about towing, transmissions, and what is needed to tow. How long have you been running your shop??? Or, do you work at a dealership, where you see this all the time??? because I have been looking at page after page after page on F150.com.................. specifically looking for this issue, and have yet to find anything mentioning it.

 

PS, do you know how to rebuild an A4LD??? No you say.............................. well I guess that means you don't know anything about Fords. :rolleyes:

 

PSS, yes, that was sarcasm.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Extreme4x4