This is why we lose money!! Bet foreign car..

[sharonvilletradesman]

This is why we lose money, I bet the foreign car companies don't run like this. I've been at Ford for 15 yrs now as a PF and have seen alot but not all. I seem to be amazed at things just when you thought it couldn't get anymore screwed up. Our plant manager here at Sharonville doesn't like construction, to be honest he doesn't like trades. We are currently installing alot of machines and piping for the 6r and 6f program. So this bonehead gets rid of construction and says we don't have the money do work weekends and overtime. Then last week they bring in 90 outside contractors at a price of 62.00 a man hr. to set machines,run electric, and plumb up the machines. So now we are spending an additional 890 k just for labor to do the same work we was doing. We have been skimping by for about a year now short on the outposts because they wouldn't replace guys who have retired or took buyouts. So now on outposts where we had 1or 2 fitters now we have 4 or 5 and he tells the union we don't have the manpower to man up construction so the outsiders have to do the work. If we would have laid off 90 tradesmen and then brought the outsiders in I could see their reasoning. They would be breaking even, but we are spending an additional 890 k, can anyone figure this out? I can't! Now we just found out we are working and have been working a skelton crew for the Saturday, the contractors are working Sat and Sun. The only thing the union says is it is out of our hands but they won't be working Monday. Well big deal!! I bet Toyota doesn't do business like this. You can't tell me that management is this stupid. I mean what are all of those meetings they have and those papers they have frame on the wall are for??

[sparks will fly]

Another reason to take the buyout, they don't want skilled trades anymore even though they need them.

[228electrician]

thats what they do not understand, when an outside company bids the job, it is usually 90+ per manpower hour plus a premium on materials. $62 is cheap, but still not as cheap as keeping the work in house. but to them the money comes from a different account and not the account for manpower hours so the powers at be out source to make there budget since there outsource funds is not included with daily operational cost. on paper they look good but actually pay more for the same results.

[HKGuns]

thats what they do not understand, when an outside company bids the job, it is usually 90+ per manpower hour plus a premium on materials. $62 is cheap, but still not as cheap as keeping the work in house. but to them the money comes from a different account and not the account for manpower hours so the powers at be out source to make there budget since there outsource funds is not included with daily operational cost. on paper they look good but actually pay more for the same results.

 

Same results and competitive cost is a matter of opinion, I suppose.

 

Perhaps it is changing, but here is my experience with ST workers. Roll in early, sit around and drink coffee for two hours. Decide they better start thinking about getting some work done. Stand around until break time pondering the job. After break get everything set up to do the job, then its lunchtime. Come back and start the work, then its break time again. Get about 1/6th of what should be done then pack up to leave and bitch they aren't being paid overtime and post negatively on BON about outsourcing.

 

I DARE you to claim this doesn't represent reality at most Ford plants.

Edited January 13, 2007 by HKGuns

[J-150]

I bet Toyota doesn't do business like this.

 

 

 

That's right. They don't.

 

They do what they want, when they want. They hire whomever they want. They assign tasks to whomever they want.

 

They have no union to answer to.

 

 

So that is your alternative.

 

Is the grass still greener?

[davdog]

That's right. They don't.

 

They do what they want, when they want. They hire whomever they want. They assign tasks to whomever they want.

 

They have no union to answer to.

So that is your alternative.

 

Is the grass still greener?

 

 

So owning a company doesn't give you the right to make those choices for yourself?

[marty95]

When the project is done the contractors are gone. If Ford kept on the rolls, trades for construction projects, they still have to pay them when the project is done. Remember the old days, the regular lauoffs etc..etc.. are no longer. We now have a GEN pool, Sub pay, with benefits for how long....... And yes that IS the way Toyota does it. Partimers, contractors, Layoffs for a large portion of their workforce considered non-regulars are a way of life at many of the foreign owned plants. Only a portion of Toyotas workforce are "regulars" "associate" status. Sorry but I think the old days are gone. We better adjust.

[J-150]

So owning a company doesn't give you the right to make those choices for yourself?

 

 

I'm sorry Troll. Did someone magically reinstate the value of your opinion without telling the rest of us?

[davdog]

I'm sorry Troll. Did someone magically reinstate the value of your opinion without telling the rest of us?

 

 

Going back to your previous post though.... doesn't owning/running a company give you the right to make those decisions?

[J-150]

Going back to your previous post though.... doesn't owning/running a company give you the right to make those decisions?

 

 

a comapny can do what it wants.

 

My point is, Toyota has no union to deal with. That's why they apear to be more effieicnet in these decisions. It is also my position that just becasue Toyota appears more efficient doesn't make it better. As I stated, for Ford to emulate Toyota in these matters requires the expulsion of the UAW...

 

so like I asked earlier, do you still think the grass is greener at Toyota?

[HKGuns]

Sounds like the boss isn't doing their job to me.

 

Why should a boss have to babysit grown men who should be expected to put in a days work for a days pay? What is he going to do? Fire them? Right.

[charly]

Why should a boss have to babysit grown men who should be expected to put in a days work for a days pay? What is he going to do? Fire them? Right.

 

 

Failed the apprenticeship test eh?

[HKGuns]

I agree, but isn't that why there is a boss? Hell, there are 8 tradesmen in my area including me, and we have two bosses. What area do you think reduction would be best? One of the salaried that gives me my job assignment, or the tradesmen that keep the machinery running?

If the machines don't run, the area isn't making any money.

 

Don't misunderstand. I'm not about to absolve supervision from any guilt. However, the Union does a pretty good job of tying folks hands when trying to supervise. This isn't an excuse for the supervision not doing their jobs either. There is enough blame to go around and there is guilt on both sides, however, standing around blaming eachother won't change a thing.

 

Ford needs change at all levels.

[HKGuns]

Failed the apprenticeship test eh?

 

Nice try, but not even in the balllpark and we'll just leave it at that.......

[BTV to SHV Transferee]

This is why we lose money, I bet the foreign car companies don't run like this. I've been at Ford for 15 yrs now as a PF and have seen alot but not all. I seem to be amazed at things just when you thought it couldn't get anymore screwed up. Our plant manager here at Sharonville doesn't like construction, to be honest he doesn't like trades. We are currently installing alot of machines and piping for the 6r and 6f program. So this bonehead gets rid of construction and says we don't have the money do work weekends and overtime. Then last week they bring in 90 outside contractors at a price of 62.00 a man hr. to set machines,run electric, and plumb up the machines. So now we are spending an additional 890 k just for labor to do the same work we was doing. We have been skimping by for about a year now short on the outposts because they wouldn't replace guys who have retired or took buyouts. So now on outposts where we had 1or 2 fitters now we have 4 or 5 and he tells the union we don't have the manpower to man up construction so the outsiders have to do the work. If we would have laid off 90 tradesmen and then brought the outsiders in I could see their reasoning. They would be breaking even, but we are spending an additional 890 k, can anyone figure this out? I can't! Now we just found out we are working and have been working a skelton crew for the Saturday, the contractors are working Sat and Sun. The only thing the union says is it is out of our hands but they won't be working Monday. Well big deal!! I bet Toyota doesn't do business like this. You can't tell me that management is this stupid. I mean what are all of those meetings they have and those papers they have frame on the wall are for??

 

First of all, I agree that our people should be doing the work! And YES, Toyota does their skilled trades work through outsourced firms (AKSteel contracted the same contractor during the lockout and Toyota is the contractors biggest customer, and who does AKSteel make steel for? Toyota! Coincidence?). Only 30% of Toyota's workers actually work for Toyota. The other 70% work for temp services. No benefits, No pension, No work guarantees!

 

Does it make sense to hire an outside contractor? Financially yes, manpower, NO! As in other posts in this topic, the money for the work doesnt come from the payroll, it comes from the 'building investment capitol'. Yes, our people are already there, but when you dip into payroll and the building investment capitol, you dip twice, therefore bringing our cost up. The contractor has low balled the bid so they can get future work. Our skilled trades are second to none, but when a contractor tells the company they can do the same work for 1/3 less and make the plant manager look good in Dearborn, guess who will get the work? After the work is done, the contractor will be gone and 100 less people on the payroll. Our construction trades will be placed in outposts and detailed work.

 

At least the work being done by the contractor(s) are UNION labor. IBEW, Union Millwrights-Pipefitters & Carpenters.