Ford/Navistar: on the rocks

[7Mary3]

Yes Richard, I know the Volvo truck line wasn't for sale, I was just saying they would have been better off with it! To 7Mary3, let me say this: The Hartford CT area water operation as well as the CT and MA state highway depts. used to be almost 100 percent Ford vehicles, from cars to pickups to mediums and heavies. They even had -- and still do -- Ford mowing tractors and payloaders! But when they sold the heavy truck unit, these municipal entities as well as thousands across the nation found they couldn't buy the beloved L-series any longer. So Ford lost that "we can sell you everything edge." Once these operations were forced to go non-Ford it opened the door for competition to get in the door. Now, when you go by these operations, you see Chevy and Dodge pickups, International, Freightliner and Sterling heavies AND mediums! You don't see any Ford mediums there. The cars are no longer all-Ford. Do you know how much Ford lost? In my opinion, hundreds of millions! My belief was that when you had school bus, construction vehicle, vocational, fire apparatus drivers etc. driving Fords they might have thought to themselves, "Gee, Ford makes a pretty good big truck, maybe I should buy a Ford car or pickup."

 

You might be able to make the case that by offering an entire line of vehicles from compact cars to heavy trucks, a company could be more attractive to a large fleet. However, I don't think that was usually the case. Fleets, both large and small, almost always buy low bid. Time and time again, it doesn't matter how bad the vehicle might be, the vendor with the lowest price will win the bid. With regards to Ford's class 8 trucks (not pickups or cars), the vast majority of them were purchased by fleets because Ford was the low bidder. Hence, there wasn't much profit in them for Ford. Nor were they particularly good trucks (again, I am only talking about the heavy models, such as the L series). Ever see an owner-operator driving a Ford L-9000? In the 25 or so years those things were around, I could probably count the number of owner-operator Fords I saw on one hand. Even GMC got some of the premium market back in the 70's and 80's with the big conventional General, and International with their Transtar Eagle. What was bad for Ford was the premium segment was where the profit was (don't believe me? ask Peterbilt and Kenworth). Ford did try to get into that market with some dolled up L's and the CL-9000 (what a POS that one was) but they were not too successful. There really isn't any money in selling vehicles to large fleets, particularly municipalities. And that was about the only market Ford had for their class 8 line.

[matthewq4b]

You might be able to make the case that by offering an entire line of vehicles from compact cars to heavy trucks, a company could be more attractive to a large fleet. However, I don't think that was usually the case. Fleets, both large and small, almost always buy low bid. Time and time again, it doesn't matter how bad the vehicle might be, the vendor with the lowest price will win the bid. With regards to Ford's class 8 trucks (not pickups or cars), the vast majority of them were purchased by fleets because Ford was the low bidder. Hence, there wasn't much profit in them for Ford. Nor were they particularly good trucks (again, I am only talking about the heavy models, such as the L series). Ever see an owner-operator driving a Ford L-9000? In the 25 or so years those things were around, I could probably count the number of owner-operator Fords I saw on one hand. Even GMC got some of the premium market back in the 70's and 80's with the big conventional General, and International with their Transtar Eagle. What was bad for Ford was the premium segment was where the profit was (don't believe me? ask Peterbilt and Kenworth). Ford did try to get into that market with some dolled up L's and the CL-9000 (what a POS that one was) but they were not too successful. There really isn't any money in selling vehicles to large fleets, particularly municipalities. And that was about the only market Ford had for their class 8 line.

 

 

Well that might be reginal as well. Here When Ford was doing heavy truck they were very very popular. All the municipalities in the area used Ford heavy's right up to Fire Fighting equipment if it could be had with a Ford Chassis, along with all the P/U's were Ford as were all of the Autosa dn when they were avaible any farm equipment tractors lawn gear etc (garbage trucks have always seemed to be Macks though).

 

Heck the Fire Cheif here still has a Contour as his Vehical.

 

The 3 most common trucks used in the Oil Patch were Petes, Kenworth and Ford. For logging it was Western Star and Ford. And all the logging haulers are Owner operators. The Medium trucks used around town by variuos industires and owner operators were Internationals and Ford.

 

When Ford has dropped it's heavy line all the municipalites moved to International right away from Ford for Cars and a smatering of every body for P/U's. Ford at one time represented one stop shopping for the Municipalities. Cars P/U's Medium and heavy trucks could all be had in one stop. Plus the City Service Dept's were only dealing with one brand of vehical and one suppler for parts. Of course when a municipality stops at the Ford dealer and drops several hundred thousand or a mil for a various assortment of vehicals, trucks (heavy & medium), P/U's, Econolines, Cop cars and other city owned staff cars They got a pretty good damn deal. And FoMoCo moved shit load of product in one shot.

 

Wih the loss of the Ford Heavy and Medium trucks. The City's no longer had any reason to one stop shop. They started buying GMC and Dodge P/U's GMC vans, experimented with a dn bought a shit load of Impala's for police use (it failed miserably) Started to buy GMC's Dodge's and Canadian Built Imports for staff cars. Ford's Auto sales went from every single one for staff cars to none. Now the only cars they sell to the municipalites are the PI CV's.

 

Ford Trucks were not bad units they sucked for Long haul but for non long haul uses they were very good and had loyal following. Heck EPCOR still has some C series in use. In the medium and heavy segment for the ctiy's they all moved to International. The International dealer went from a small 4 service bay dealer . To a facilitly with over 2 dozen service bays and a massive showroom. In a brand new build. Built 2 years after Ford dropped thier heavy line. Thier is a Sterling dealer here but they are about 1/5 th the size of the Internatioanal dealer.

 

And the spin of of employees buying wht they drive at work is true. During the hey day here with Ford suppling the city with 90% of thier vehical needs. Well Over half the Vehiclas in the In the city service yard Center parking lot were Ford's. Now you'd be lucky if it was 20%.

 

Dropping the heavy line was a huge mistake. And has cost Ford Millions in profits.

 

 

 

Matthew

[White99GT]

No, it is worse. The WHOLE CAB has to come off for major repairs, not just the front sheetmetal.

 

You're right. That's why I said this:

 

I'm sure it's pretty scary to see your new $50,000 SD as a rolling chassis with the cab suspended in the air above it.

 

And it's really not that bad. A good tech can have the cab off of the chassis in about an hour. I've seen techs have the bodies pulled off of Expeditions and current SD's in 1.5 hours, the new SD's have made the job even easier.

[Hemiman]

No, it is worse. The WHOLE CAB has to come off for major repairs, not just the front sheetmetal.

 

 

I've had the displeasure of doing engine work on modern trucks, (any of the big 2.5). All have a portion of the engine tucked under the cowl. The worst are the V-10 Fords and the Cummins Dodges. Can anyone tell me why the industry is so obsessed with shortening the front ends of vehicles? I know I harp on "short hood syndrome" all the time, but here is an example of where it not only looks stupid, but causes functional issues as well.

 

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS?

 

Pretty soon they'll have to put a dog house in the cab just like on the E-Series vans.

[Kokomo M/W]

I've had the displeasure of doing engine work on modern trucks, (any of the big 2.5). All have a portion of the engine tucked under the cowl. The worst are the V-10 Fords and the Cummins Dodges. Can anyone tell me why the industry is so obsessed with shortening the front ends of vehicles? I know I harp on "short hood syndrome" all the time, but here is an example of where it not only looks stupid, but causes functional issues as well.

 

WHAT IS THE REASON FOR THIS?

 

Pretty soon they'll have to put a dog house in the cab just like on the E-Series vans.

Amen I also have worked on some of the newer vehicles, all I can say if the people that engineer and design these pain in the a** vehicles had to work on them, this would change quick, as a matter of fact they should make them go out and turn some wrenches on them.

[Joe771476]

Thanks for the support Matthew!