Footballfan

I think the UAW should be more concerned with the repatriation of jobs and filling underutilized plants- especially since many of their newer and popular products are being sourced from Mexico (not to mention the Natiulus from China). FRAP, and LAP could definitely use more product.

This is simply a resurrection of the jobs bank.

Keep in mind that there's a new sheriff in town at the UAW. The UAW president is now elected by the membership, not appointed. In the past the general consensus was that the UAW was too much in bed with Ford management, and was just a rubber stamp to Ford's contract proposals. Last time there was a challenge at the onset to pass the proposed agreement. This time, if the membership does not like tge contract, they'll take it out on UAW president Fain the next time he's up for election. Thus, I don't think you'll see a contract with any plant closings.

Then don't start name calling contests. As a moderator you're supposed to set the tone for civility and be an example- not call people names who disagree with you.

Shhhh. Don't preach common sense to someone who doesn't have any.

Perhaps people are just getting their fill of another EV crossover?

Classy.......Someone doesn't agree with you you resort to name calling. Very mature.

Nevertheless, the free market and customer preference won out over regulations. YOU CANNOT FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY SOMETHING THEY DO NOT WANT! I as a customer could care less about the company's profit margins or if the vehicle is easy to build. Only thing I care about is if the vehicle meets my needs and wants. If Ford does not make it some other automaker will. The Regan administration loosened CAFE requirements to meet the wishes of the market. I'm sure if we get a a new admin in 2025, it will roll back a lot of the regs.

If Ford management was smart (and that is a big "if" based on what we have seen the past 25 years), they would pattern FRAP like the Corvette plant in Bowling Green. Construct a Mustang Musem, and have buyers be able to watch their Mustang be built and have a spin on the test track out back. This may actually bump up Mustang sales in the process.

This EV push reminds me of the early 1980s when V-8s and large vehicles were "going" to be extinct. The Taurus, Sable, and what was to become the FWD Continental of 1988, were supposed to be Ford's largest cars. Remember the Probe started out as a FWD replacement for the Mustang? The Ranger was supposed to be the mainstream pickup. However customers demanded that Ford keep the vehicles they want. Thus, the Mustang remained in the lineup and was revamped in MY 1994 instead of being dropped. The Panther-body cars lived on another 20+ years, and the F-Series became the dominant vehicle for Ford. Over at GM, they went full steam ahead with downsizing and their top-of-the-line luxury cars bombed. It is a shame that these car companies cannot learn from the mistakes of the past and continue to use this myopic thinking.

Gas pumps do not use as much electricity per fillup as a BEV does per charge. You canprobably gas up 100 vehicles with the electricity it takes to charge one BEV

Stellantis has four assembly plants in Michigan and currently produces more vehicles in Michigan than Ford. If FRAP closes, Ford could be producing more vehicles in Kentucky than Michigan. Dont think for a second that is not lost on the government of Michigan or the UAW. I think FRAP and LAP will be issues in the contract talks especially since Fordcis starting to import vehicles from China. I would not be surprised to see major investments negotiated for both plants this round of contract talks.

Flat Rock had product pulled from them twice in recent years. The Mach E (moved to Mexico instead) and later the Electric Explorer/Navigator (moved to OHAP) was supposed to be built there. Both times a new paint shop was to be built. The last proposed new paint shop's permit was pulled a day after the last contract was ratified. The UAW rolled over on that one ?. Hopefully with a new UAW president elected by the members there will be more of a push for new product at FRAP. Hey, if Ford can spend $750 million on a train station and $3 billion on a new assembly plant they really do not need, they can afford a billion to retool Flat Rock.

End of the decade? I think that you could make a case for any plant closing by then. I read someplace that the Mustang EV is slated for Flat Rock. Moving the Mustang to Mexico would be a PR issue- it is one of Ford's last remaining iconic vehicles. This is not to mention the issues it would create with the UAW. I am sure additional product for Flat Rock will be discussed during the UAW/Ford talks this summer.

Flat Rock is supposed to get the EV Mustang in 2029 per forecasts. I would not be surprised to see FRAP get a couple of BEVs before then. Remember they were supposed to build the Mach E and the EV Explorer and Navigator before Ford pulled the plug (no pun intended).

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-announce-new-35-billion-battery-plant-michigan-sources-2023-02-10/

Seems like Ford is changing plans almost every month. It's been that way since the turn of this century at this company ?

Sounds like a recipient for failure. Customers want choice, not just an option of Appliance A, B, or C. I have a feeling Farley is in over his head and this thing is going down the same road as the Fields and Hacket years

It's probably the latter. According to the same forecasters, a new (presumably electric) Mustang is scheduled to be built at Flat Rock starting 2029. https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/7th-gen-2030-bronco-coming-end-of-2029-together-with-electric-bronco-ev.60742/ Check out the attachment at the bottom of the first post on this link.

You kind of made my point. The double nickel was jettisoned and V8s had the muscle again after voter and customer backlash.

I think everyone lives in the moment. The late 1970s and first few years of the 1980s really sucked. I remember there was talk of no more V-8 engines, all non-truck vehicles were going to be front wheel drive. In 2008 we were told that pickup sales have reached their peak and Ford and GM were converting their large car/truck plants to small cars. Less than 10 years later, those same small car plants were being converted back to trucks.

As we have seen in the past, mandates can be made and mandates can be broken. As we have also seen in the past, government nor companies can shove down the throats of customers things they do not want.

I was discussing pols being hammered all over the world as we are seeing now in Europe (Italy).

Management in the American auto industry has had a history of being myopic- laser focused on one way and only one way to meet the needs of the market and government regs. In many instances they were wrong and were forced to revise their plans at the cost of billions of dollars. Also there is the political angle. Many are seeing the costs of the New Green Deal- skyrocketing fuel prices, fuel shortages, inflation, etc. The public will definitely take it out on those who are forcing these mandates.

Ford will be asking for a lot of labor trouble if they start closing legacy plants and moving production to a new plant in a right-to-work state that is not guaranteed to recognize the UAW. As for EVs I'm still a skeptic. Will they get a solid 25-30 percent of the market within the next 10 years? Sure. But I don't think we will see 100 EV adoption for several decades if ever. I think BOC will end up something like the Saturn plant in nearby Spring Hill. A lot of expectations but the end result will be something less than promised.