LarryQW

Maybe via registrations? If not a hack...

I think Consumer Reports should really have a chance to review this too. Maybe just before they do their ratings. And make sure everyone in the world knows how well (or not) that it works.

You don't go to the bottom of the reliabilty list without a reason. Ford's laser focus has diffused. They (and we on this board) need to listen instead of making excuses, otherwise you don't improve. Ford needs to get back to what they were doing before that got them high on the list already. Put simply: Mouths humble; ears open; hands working; Fix the problems quickly Ford!

It's funny how with Consumer Reports first came out with their complaints about MyFordTouch, there were a lot of threads here blaming CR as anti-Ford, and that CR didn't understand how controls work. Mullaly, on the other hand, told the engineers to visit Consumer Reports team, and listen carefully rather than try to lecture them on controls. In my opinion, MyFordTouch could only be better for the effort of doing the fixes that CR pointed out as essential. Too bad it's taken Ford so long and not quite right yet.

I've driven many cars, and the Freestyle/ T-X for sure has the least driver leg room, by my testing and also by the specifications. (The Outlook and Highlander has 2" more, for instance, and much more comfortable for me). It could be at your height, you've learned to adjust. That is, you never get the comfort of shorter legged drivers and thus don't miss it. For example, I had a 6'5" friend driving my T-X for hours at a time on a mountain biking trip from CA to Utah. He never complained. But I could see his legs folded up like a pretzel with his knees near the steering column. (Fortunately, the ample leg room rear seats of the T-X worked well for his sleeping when he rotated out for driving shifts. Oddly the rear seats have more leg room than the driver seats in this platform. )

Actually, it can make a big difference. I'm closer to 6'1", with long legs for my height. So the difference could be over 3". If I only had 1" more back, I'm sure I could be substantially more comfortable. I tried dozens of Freestyle and Taurus-X in my attempt to fit, and for some reason there was a slight manufacturing variation where I could get less uncomfortable in some cars. My custom order T-X was in the better comfort range, fortunately. If the seat bottom was longer, I can do the trick where I tilt the seat buttom front up so my legs are supported with the knee slightly up, with my legs slightly folded zigzag rather than straight out. But the seat bottom is short and the bottom tilt not quite enough. Finally, the left wheel well intrusion is not only a problem in available length, as it's less than an inch shorter than the gas and brake. It's just that I have to bend my leg too much to the right to use it. The combination of all the bending to be shorter and bending the right makes the dead pedal position very uncomfortable.

If you're accustomed to reading CR, you know that they often completely dismiss a product for one or two major 'nits' that they pick. They will rate most features qualitatively relative to another, like braking distance, slalom speed, etc... (which the Explorer did well on). But some particular feature faults they find to be annoying really get under their skin, and the product will get a major ding. It's the way they do things. OTOH, one major annoyance like this can be the reason for a customer to reject a product. For instance, for three years I kept visiting Ford to try the Freestyle but could never get the drivers position to be fully comfortable, like CR points out. So I didn't buy. Similarly, if a customer is having trouble operating controls, they can get very upset. We've seen that with MFT in a previous post. (Fortunately Ford is slowing fixing and improving the interface.) So a single nit, if big enough, can indeed be a fatal product flaw in some occasions. Incidentally, I watched how I subconsciously handled my seating on the T-X yesterday, and found I never use the "dead pedal" as my left leg needs to bend too much to the right to be comfortable while on the pedal. My bent knee hurts that way. Instead, I put my left foot farther back and to the left near the door. The lower arm rest has a worn spot from my raised knee leaning against it. I also move around my left leg and tuck my left foot under my right leg occasionally. This problem is because the wheel well intrudes and not an easy fix without moving the wheels forward into the engine, or the driver seat back and reducing rear seat leg room and cargo capacity. It's a design flaw inherent in the Freestyle / Taurus-X / Flex / Explorer platform.

There's been some PowWows already between Ford and CR. I saw the video when Mullaly had Ford's SYNC and MFT teams visit Consumer Reports to investigate their MFT issues. Basicallly, Mullaly told his engineers to listen to CR's evaluation very carefully, rather than try to justify Ford's approach or lecture CR on how to work controls. I think Mullaly was right in his response, in that there some small truth to CR's complaints that Ford really does need to fix still. When Ford gets it right, it'll be a major improvement that and will surely help the consumer and maybe CR can accept with a positive review. From what I've seen on videos and other's comments here, CR indeed has some merit in saying MFT is complex, distracting, and slow to respond. Only now is Ford getting the major bugs out, with some minor bugs to go. And as CR points out, the dual dedicated hardware controls are still imperfect as well. CR show this in their video by hitting a button a few times with inconsistent response. Maybe CR is exaggerating the issue, but I design human interfaces as well, and I'd never make a human interface so complicated, slow, inconsistent, and buggy, even for top engineers and physicists that use our Class IV laser product, and certainly not for a control to be used by the general public while driving a fast two-ton vehicle with lives in jeopardy. Like Mullaly, I'd say Ford should listen to CR, and fix MFT some more. Don't make excuses. It'll be better for the effort and become top-notch.

Actually, I had the same problem with the driver's seating on the Freestyle and Taurus X, which use the same platform. The driver discomfort was bad enough to prevent me from buying a Freestyle that I really wanted otherwise. I sat in the Freestyle on at least 5 visits and kept trying all seat positions to see if I could find the magic spot, or if I was somehow mistaken. With my 6'1" height, long legs, and 12" feet, I could never get the seat back far enough. The short seat pad made matters worse. Also, I could never put my left leg out straight. There's a "dead pedal" on the left, but it's in an unnatural place, with my left leg lifted way up off the short seat and much higher than the right leg. I always need to keep my left leg rotated inward to the right at a bad angle in order to fit into the seat. The Taurus X had the same problem, but was just slightly better, enough for me to buy the car. I've since done long trips (~10 hours) driving and have been OK, in spite of my fears. I just keep moving my left leg around in different awkward ways, enough to keep from hurting or causing injury.

CR's video report said very little bad about the car and said a lot of good things. From the video, I'd thought the Explorer would get a top rating. They mentioned the MyFordTouch as being way too complicated, too small buttons, confusing, ...- a long standing CR complaint. They said the driver's left foot had nowhere to go. I indeed had a big problem on this with the predecessors, the Freestyle and Taurus X, with the intruding wheel well, and didn't buy the Freestyle because of difficulty finding a good driver seat position. But I finally bought the T-X in spite of this being a major concern. It's still a minor bother, but I like the rest of the car very much. The arm rest issue is totally bogus - use the inner arm rest. The video said something about awkward third row egress. But the text said it was good. Maybe a misconception. In general, I think CR's reviews have some partial truth, but way over exaggerated and overly penalize the overall vehicle rating.

The Edge and Flex are very different vehices. The Flex has much more room, closer to a minivan wtih three rows of seating. The Edge is really a smaller vehicle. Get a big family like mine and you'll see one car works, the ohter doesn't at all. And then nobody can mistake the radical differences in styling. The two different vehicles would only appeal to the same person if they were schizo. They cannot be swapped. Makes sense to keep the Flex as long as it's being sold and making money.

I owned a Merkur Scorpio for 15 years. Drove it to the grave since I couldn't get another. It was a fabulous handling family car, with lots of versatility as a hatchback. My feeling is that Lincoln was the wrong place to sell a Euro-car. Not what their customers were looking for. Ford also made a lot of engineering mistakes in the American conversion. Like they forgot to put an Off button on the A/C, even though it came with a sun roof. But the Ford shop did two days of retrofits under warranty and got it right, a year or so later.

Rarely though, for me. (2008 Taurus X with older SYNC 2.0) I've had problems with my SYNC a few times, things like the USB music shows to be playing but no sound coming out. I brought the car into the dealer and they had to reboot it. I've also done a couple SYNC upgrades. One of the early SYNC software upgrades to SYNC took three tries to get right. In maybe 10 reworks for SYNC, I only lost my settings once. It really depends on how your dealer does the fix. Better, SYNC has worked out the early bugs, and has worked flawlessly for near two years now.

Yep, that's me. I've been driving Taurus or Sable wagons for a couple decades for the same reason as John E - good handling and versatility. Then when Ford stopped making them, I went to the Taurus X crossover. I'm not missing the wagon. In fact, getting into my old Sable wagon last week, I realize how much easier the T-X Crossover is to get into. It also handles just as well or better, with a lot more room and better power and better gas mileage than the older wagon. Crossovers are the new wagons. (Funny, often times people will call my T-X a wagon because it sort of looks like one and they don't know what else to call it. I'm not offended)

A compact minivan is an oxymoron in the US. People in the US want minivans for extra size and utility. Compact minivans may work in Europe due to their small vehicle culture, well founded by their small roads, limited parking, tight alleys, and very high priced gas. We don't have that.

That was exactly my thinking when I went for a Crossover versus an SUV. Why buy an Excursion for just two weeks of need per year, but suffer the poor truck handling and miserable mileage (14 versus 22 MPG) the other 50 weeks. For a fraction of the huge price difference, I got a cargo box to make up the capacity difference for those two weeks. My Yakima Skybox16 is aerodynamic and doesn't affect mileage much - either way I get 24-26 MPG on a level highway at 65 MPH. The crossbars don't make any wind noise, but they can be removed from the Landing Pads in 30 seconds, so I take them off when not needed, just for appearance.

There's only about 17 cubic feet behind the third row. But that's true of about any crossover or minivan. I get 47 cubic feet behind the second row. which allows full amount of camping gear and things. The extra 16 cubic feet in the cargo box on top allows me to see out the rear windows. When I take six big mountain bikers, there's plenty of room behind the third row for everyone's pack, helmet, and other personal gear. But it's probably too small for most travel with six people. Unless maybe you pack light and stay in a hotel.

I have a family of 5 - me, wife & three daughters. All of us are tall (I'm 6' and the teen daughters are 5'10" or so). The oldest daughter is 21 and doesn't go on family trips any more, so it's usually the four of us and gear. Sometimes on local trips, my oldest daughter and her boyfriend joins us, and we have six in the car. The four of us in the T-X leaves lots of room for camping gear including two tents, bikes, sleeping bags, clothes, and stoves,etc..

Our family regularly takes road trips, always in our Taurus X rather than our 2004 Freestar minivan. The T-X is newer, more comfortable, has a Family Entertainment center, three zone heating, three zone audio, separate rear seats with console so the kids keep somewhat seperated. These are the sort of features Ford needs to put in minivans to keep selling them. The minivan has slightly more cargo room, but I more than make up for that with a 16 cubic foot Cargo Box on top, where I put the big light fluffy stuff like pillows. I also have a 4-bike rack on back. Sometimes I put two bikes on top and carry up to six mountain bikers with to various trails around northern CA. With the family, we've driven all over CA, up to Oregon, Tahoe, and all sorts of camping trips, all in the T-X. With biker friends, we've done camping trips to Moab Utah and Fruita CO, and Gooseberry NV, aslo in the T-X. For me, long road trips with a big family or friends are not dead. And, the new Ford crossovers are very capable. I've put 55K miles in 2.5 years on my T-X, and find driving it to be very relaxing and comfortable. Our family is driving 8 hours to Disneyland next month. We've done it before in a minivan, but the T-X makes the trip more pleasant and fun. My point is that even with a Ford Minivan right next to my Ford Crossover in the driveway, we always choose the crossover for any big family trip, especially our frequent long road trips.

Huh? Our 2000 Windstar minivan had dual power sliding doors. Our current 2004 Freestar minivan also has dual sliding doors. I can't remember that far back when minivans only had one door. 15 years ago? Ford's minivans were very nice and competitive at the time. They just needed to modernize the interior like the current Explorer and other current models. The gas mileage sucks. My wife only gets a combined average of ~16 MPG on the 2004 Windstar. By comparison I get ~22 MPG combined average on my Taurus X for a simlar driving mix.

I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to your suggestion. My wife owns a 2004 Ford Windstar minivan, and I have a 2008 Taurus X, which has the same chasis and similar in size to the Flex and Explorer. The cargo capacity of her minivan is indeed about 10% more. And it's easier to get all the seats out of her van for full use of the cargo area. In contrast, my T-X seats fold down, but still take up room that I can't use. However, I don't find the sliding versus hinged doors affect loading. It's more the total room. Nevertheless, with lots of people and gear, like for camping, we still take my T-X over her minivan. Maybe because it's nicer and newer? For those occasions I put a large cargo box on top that more than matches the missing room from a minivan. Several people at work have the Honda minivan, and it's big and really super comforatable for trips. Maybe it's just the American stigma of riding a Soccor-Mom-Van that hurts sales of this great utilitarian vehicle (myself included). Buyers would rather imagine they're drivng a 4WD up a rugged mountain on the way to the shopping mall.

Shazaam!!! Your wish has been granted. And it's got a name too. It's called the "Explorer". Made on a car chassis like a Minivan should. Can handle 6 or 7 people/kids and lots of gear through the big rear hatch. Everything else you ask for is included too. Just missing the sliding doors to disguise it from Soccer Moms who want to go incognito. Ford learned that lesson. Fooled you too, huh?

Even better than a lower interest rate - They don't have to pay interest with no debt. The stock seemed to have been slightly over-inflated. IMO, it's just getting back to about where it should be at this stage. The gains are already fabulous even at the current price. It'll do better as Ford does better. I'm standing pat on my Ford stocks.

I just happened to be looking for a new car for my large family with tall teens a few years ago. In the process, I got intrigued by the Ford and Mulally story, and read quite a bit. I saw how much Ford had changed for the better and turning around quickly. Nevertheless Ford's stock was being unfairly punished with the big three in the bailout mess. Everything I read indicated Ford was a super deal. About a year before, I worried about the housing bubble with overpriced homes, and potential crash it might cause. So I'd pulled all my retirement money into cash about when the Dow had peaked at 14,000. So I was all in cash and looking for something to do with it. So not only did I end up buying a Taurus X, I also put over half my retirement into Ford at an average of just under $3. I put in a lot at $4, lost half of it when it went to $2, so I put in a lot more. I lost half of again when it went to near $1. Would have put in yet more but I was over 60% of my retirement already. I worried greatly if I was making a big mistake because a loss would have been devastating as I'm not too far from retirement. But I held confident in Ford and Mulally. The news stories say $100K at the bottom would now be worth $1.8M. I didn't do quite that good, as I kept selling off on the way up to keep Ford less than 60% of my portfolio. I still own a lot of Ford. It's nice to see my account showing a 1200% gain on a huge chunk of my tax-free 401K. Edit: The best part is that I kept telling all my Toyota-loving coworkers what I was going to do, and why Ford was so great. They thought I'd gone nuts. Now they say nothing.

From Sync's Owner to Owner forum, there's a topic My Ford Touch Update. Most of Borg's problems have been discussed and seem to be mostly fixed with the mid-December update. It hurts Ford's quality reputation to have released the system with such an large list of serious bugs. I guess Ford figured they could start production and patch the problems with a quick update later. Maybe it won't hurt their image too badly if it's only been a few months. Also, a few lesser bugs have been created in the fix. For example here's one post on the Sync Owner to Owner forum by TomP: I had the update done on Dec 30th and here are my results so far. FIXED - Pretty much all of the problems I was having are fixed. The phone connects upon startup ok. No more spontainious reboots. No more screen freezes. USB music works. USB music plays in album order now, used to play in alphabetical order. USB control of my iPhone works. Nav works, no more blank screen. Rear camera works, no more dropping out. System shuts down when I shut the car off and open the door (used to occasionally stay on). No more skipping music on USB or Sattelite. STILL BROKEN - None of my issues have reoccured so far. NEW ISSUES - The phone does not reconnect in the case where I walk out of range then back into range while the truck is still running. Bluetooth audio doesn't work. When I select it it does tell my phone to start playing, but it doesn't actually connect or audio streaming so the music plays on my phone speaker and not the trucks. And of course the altered Lincoln based colors and wallpaper. I also read there's also an issue in which the Ambient Lighting is off by one color. The SYNC engineers have "figured what is going on with the ambient lighting colors and wallpaper and will follow up on it. It is NOT a software bug. It has to do with the software "parts" that are selected to be installed with the upgrade in service. On a Ford Edge this can be easily fixed by reinstalling BT4T-14F496-AL followed by a reboot."