LAP89

ALL of the time the biggest company suckass is worthless.

I think most if not all of what you say is true.That is why I have never understood over the years when the company wanted to negotiate through the media and try to make the uaw look bad. Most of the people I know that drive foreign cars say they will never buy a uaw built car. This hurts the auto company's as much or more than their employees. The media is controlled by union haters so no matter what we do we will be hated. Bob King needs to realize that and stop trying so hard to change the media's opinion. It is a battle that can not be won. In this round of negotiations I felt he was worried to much about what the media thought and not enough about the uaw workers. He sabotaged these negotiations before they even started when he was telling the media that we knew we were not going to get raises or our concessions back. I am giving him the benefit of doubt and believe he is just a very poor negotiator and not a corporate suckass. Although I understand why the contract cheerleaders feel the way they do I will be voting no. For some people this is a good contract but for a lot of others it is not. The improved profit sharing formula will possibly end up paying less to a lot of people. For 2nd tier workers and those in a plant that never works any OT they will probably get more. For skilled trades and people at plants working a lot of mandatory overtime they will probably get less. Also I believe the skilled trades are going to be hurt big time by this contract. It is indefensible that our skilled trades forced to production loose their skilled pay unlike GM and Chrysler. If we can not get any of our concessions back when ford is making huge profits and growing we never will. Also as soon as the next downturn comes we will loosing more. In this contract the most important thing I was looking for was that NOBODY looses anything. Not that overall it has more good than bad. I have always felt that one of the most important benefits of a union is that you stick together and do not allow the company to single groups out to take away from. That is why I voted against the contract that established 2nd tier workers. The company will continue to divide us and take away from us any way they can. As long as there are enough people who think I got mine so everything is ok we will continue to loose in different areas and eventually they will be coming for you to.

I do not know for sure it is not true. I have seen ford do some incredibly stupid things over the years. They would have a harder time spinning it to the media if they locked us out compared to us going on strike. Even if they did make the UAW look bad, If they loose customers because they hate the UAW they are still loosing customers.

Read this article if you believe the UAW can not go back to the table. http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSN1E79608020111009

I also expect to hear the threat ( if we vote no the company will not go back to the table, they will lock us out ) at the information meetings.

This is not true! If ford makes less than $1.2b profit we get $0

I do not understand why anyone would want a job in a union factory if they are unwilling to go on strike. The only thing that makes sense to me is that they want to enjoy the rewards from the people that came before them without having to make any sacrifices themselves. Similar to the transplants that want to enjoy a higher wage because of the uaw without actually joining and paying union dues.

I believe they intend to cut a lot of trades with the mechanical work teams. Way more than they will get to take the buyout and retire. Anyone forced to production will likely never get back in the trades. The trades that are left will find that things will change drastically. The lines of demarcation will be gone. All overtime will go to the company suckass of the group and you will not be able to grieve it. The skills of our trades will deteriorate over time and injuries will rise. I think all trades should vote no even if you think your seniority will ensure you never have to worry about being forced to production. If they planned on putting the trades back on their tools they would have no problem with paying the skilled pay rate for any trades in production like GM and Chrysler. The trades were thrown under the bus 4 years ago and Bob King and Jimmy Settles are happy to kick them under farther with this contract. Why does Bob King bring up pattern bargaining when he wants us to except concessions but it does not apply when it comes to trades pay?

When you went to that schedule did it actually add any trades jobs or did you loose some?

You are right about a no vote not getting them back to trades but neither will a yes vote. Our UAW is unwilling to fight for the trades so there is no way to win.

I think it's time some of these VOTE NO people stand up and tell us what THEY would do. What would you do if you were in charge of negotiating for the livelihoods of 40,000 people (or over 100,000 people in Bob King's position)? Would you call a company-wide strike and watch Mulally laugh his way to the bank as he puts out commercials saying "FORD IS THE ONLY COMPANY THAT DIDN'T TAKE A GOVERNMENT BAILOUT, NOW THE UAW WANTS TO MAKE US PAY. WHAT DO YOU THINK?" over motherfucking COLA? I just want to hear some people tell me what they would do differently AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE. Not what you think you should get, but HOW WOULD YOU GET IT? OK off my soapbox BTW this doesn't apply to people who are voting NO because of plant closings. I completely understand that, and while I try to look at the whole picture for the whole membership when making my decision, I understand and respect your position. What I would do differently is that I would not keep going to the media before negotiations even started and tell them that although we would like raises and to get back our concessions we know we are not going to get them.

1 -For skilled trades in production to keep their pay like GM and Chrysler. Every time they have come for concessions I have heard that we need to preserve pattern bargaining so we must except the concessions. Our trades have been kicked under the bus over the last contract. 2-Remove the cap on profit sharing. If ford makes unimaginable profits from our concessions we should get unimaginable profit sharing checks. 3-Overtime after 8 hrs restored.

Great question.

I do not know why people are assuming they will replace any trades that leave. Without any language in the contract requiring them to they will not. Bob King and Jimmy Settles are well aware of this to I bet, but they seem to be ok with it.

Does not feel quite as warm and fuzzy here at TCAP.

If you missed something so did I. There is nothing in this contract to get ford to put skilled trades back in the trades. GM and Chrysler at least have some incentive because they are still paying them skilled wages anyway. Bob King has no interest in representing the UAW skilled trades. This has been obvious for the last eight years.

Amen

I agree 100% I think Bob King has been drinking the corporate Cool-Aid for a long time as far as trades are concerned.

Their never is a good time to grow a pair. There will always be a reason not to stand up and say that's enough. I think it is human nature to put it off until there is nothing left to fight for.

You have such well thought out arguments. I know your superior intellect will convince many people to change their vote. Also, any non employees are sure to be impressed.

Did you mean "you"ll earn production pay on the line while there on your site"? It clearly states in the tentative contract that you will get production pay. If they had to pay the trades pay rate like GM and Chrysler they would have some incentive to get the trades back on there tools. This is what would have happened if Bob King and Jimmy Settles had our backs.

I thought OHAP was already promised a new product in the 2007 contract and 2009 concessions. Maybe I am not remembering right. If so correct me.

Also skilled trades working production jobs will still not get their skilled pay like they do at GM and Chrysler. WTF!!!! During the last contract GM and Chrysler trades kept their pay while working production and ford trades did not. This should have been fixed in this new contract but it has not been changed. Why Bob King negotiated that in the first place when ford was the one auto company not getting a bailout is hard to understand. All trades should vote no on this slap in the face contract.

1) Products brought back to USA from other countries. 2) All entry level employees given quarterly raises until they reach full pay. 3) Skilled trades working production keep their trades pay like at GM and Chrysler so Ford will get them back to their tools quickly.

I agree. Keep Twin Cities open and find another product to put in AAI with the mustang. Then Ohio needs to get another product.