JX1

Now, that makes sense, somewhat. I figure you saw the delay to August 7th Job 1? It's marginally understandable, but I'm quite bothered by how USA will barely get a truck they've been seeing in media for elsewhere for 2 years (November 2021 reveal). It was one thing with 3rd MCA to P375 in 2018-19 finally arriving in USA, which didn't look much different than the first MCA (ROW) in late 2015. But I had expected Ford would reduce this gap for the next generation. What I see here is, Ford wanted to get enough years in tooling out of the P375N from late 2018 to early 2023, partly I imagine to give space to launch the Bronco at MAP, which was originally targeted for MY2021 in late 2020. As well as get some ROI to convert MAP and capital investment for revised T6 for P375N. What has happened now as usual is unforeseen delays creeping in and taking P703N launch targets hostage. So, now they are struggling to keep up with the delay causes, without letting it spiral out of control too much. If they did not get too comfortable in the first place during planning and try to squeeze money out of an eleventh hour decision in 2015 to bring over the P375(N), more than 7 years after initial launch, by stretching it's lifecycle longer than ROW, there would be more room to deal with these delays. Like let's say, targeting USDM Ranger P703N to be 6 months behind global Ranger P703 in late 2022 versus nearly 18 months now. It can be done and has been done before between global markets, it's not unheard of. At this rate, the truck will not be in North American showrooms until early 2024, if another delay happens again. I find that inexcusable, considering when the truck was actually designed. I already see some public complaints regarding datedness, even though I love the new truck and consider it an improvement. Ford set out to design this truck back in 2016 and 99% finished that design work in late 2018-early 2019, yet find it more than acceptable to launch that same exact design effort in its domestic market, almost 5 years after pencils down? It's not being done right for USDM at least on that front. It's bad enough that the Maverick was designed parallel to this 4-5 years ago, yet you get ignoramuses calling this an "ugly oversized Maverick" or other Maverick related criticisms. Almost similar to Bronco Sport (late 2020) vs Bronco Summer 2021 dilemma. What many of those ignorant trolls don't realize, is that the inspiration was the 1982 Ranger for both the P758 Maverick and P703 Ranger. To them anyway, it doesn't matter. All they see is a new Ranger-- especially many current generation owners--which looks like a "cheaper, soft" Maverick. When Ford, due to the pandemic, delayed the P702 F-150 a few months, it at worst elapsed 37 months since styling completion in 2017 and showrooms launch in December 2020. Ford aimed to be lean with that, but ended up standard lead time cycles. For the 2024 Ranger, it's almost 60 months now. That's highly irregular and worse than 1980s lead times. Ford basically tried to keep the current Ranger running longer than it needs to and now that they need to get to market sooner, they can't help all these delays. Toyota made the same mistake with the Tacoma and some other models, by keeping them on the vine too long.

LOL, that's ridiculous. Toyota is already about to announce the 2024 Tacoma and are finishing up testing already. It's already nearing pilot phases, according to insiders. There's a limit to benchmarking when lead times factor in and Ford already got hurt when the P703 was first leaked in early 2019. Most of everything there is to know about this truck, is already out there. TT builds are probably the issue.

Thanks a million, haven't logged in for a bit, until I saw emails from BOF on your correspondence from a month ago. Sorry. Really helpful advice here, thanks. As for the Ranger, I am bit puzzled as to why Ford is keeping this so quiet. Almost every other Ford is revealed 6 months before launch at least, such as the F-150 in June 2020 against December 2020 launch. Mustang will be 9 months from reveal to launch. I don't see any risk of competitor benchmarking being an issue, so a bit puzzled by this.

Understandable Hugh, neither do I. Just was trying to help! They're saying April 5th reveal for this one, while maybe this month for the Ranger?

It's actually April 17th, which I first mentioned here back on January 29th . I wouldn't necessarily trust Carscoops as a primary source, considering that they copied it from Ranger 6G. The day they discover this forum, will be very problematic, in terms of their infamous plagiarism.

I had said that above to Hugh, but I guess he doesn't read posts very well. I know for a fact, it's all new. No reason it wouldn't be. I don't know why anyone keeps assuming Toyota would do another facelift/refresh at this point, especially after 20 years since the last big redo. (The info is out there.) Considering how they keep hyping their new modular frame. It's just willfully dismissing info already out there, to ask the same tired questions. It's just as ridiculous as some snark, questioning or implying the F-150 still uses the same frame from 2004, which is obviously partisan crap from fanatics of truck competition that forget design signatures being retained doesn't mean it's carryover mechanically. The new 2022 Tundra design was meant to be a bigger present day Tacoma and the 2024 Tacoma is an evolution of the current Tacoma. That's what Kevin Hunter, their USA design director mentioned somewhere. The current Tacoma sells great, but last Tundra didn't. Easier to bridge them closer together, by making the next Tundra a bigger and more extreme version of the outgoing Tacoma, while having the next Tacoma stick to its successful roots by keeping it familiar. Too many "enthusiasts"/observers seem to be stuck on just one brand and don't try to keep themselves objective and informed on other brands, yet have the gall to authoritatively question the competition, like I keep seeing everywhere. I look forward to the new 2024 Ranger and also what Toyota is bringing out for 2024. I also like the new GM cousins, but I think Ford and Toyota will rule the roost for the next few years. Nissan's Frontier is nice, but nothing special. Jeep is just niche and forget about a Ram Dakota that ain't EV. I don't have favorites, even if my spending dollars go to Ford. Toyota doesn't offer a real half ton Raptor competitor nor a NA V8 RWD manual coupe below $60k. If they did, I might buy from them. But pigs will fly before that ever happens. Toyota has used the same frame, updated only once in the 2010s, since 2004. New truck is totally redone, but I'm sure you already specifically know that since you follow everything out there like I do.

I used to trust them religiously, because they have a credible record to some degree. However, there are variations, such as I don't like when they put in filler chassis codes, which often turnout to be different at launch. Plus it leans too speculative at times, against internal developments. Aside from that, I've followed them for years, thankful now that some other enthusiasts on other forums are now aware of Auto Forecast Solutions too. Anyone willing to actually find out what's happening, should look for these and get ahead of future developments, but take it with a grain of salt. Thanks for the updated information, as I saw an early version of this chart which was a bit different from last spring. I think I was the first person to mention the next generation F-150s online 2 years ago, thanks to my source working on both P736 and P800 in some capacity in Dearborn and AP.

I'm well aware of when each show opens up, but I didn't mention them since I figured everyone here knows already. Only passing on the order bank opening date, nothing else. NYIAS is possible, based on that date. Yeah, but what I mentioned before has nothing to do with the Mustang, as that's opening of orders for the 2024 Ranger from what I've seen. Not Ranger reveal specifically. Mustang starts production around that time anyway for June delivery, but ordering dates are different. I'm definitely referring to orders opening and nothing else. I don't have concrete knowledge on the reveal date nor do my Ford sources---or at least they say... I appreciate this a lot, but lost my previous response to you. Thanks a billion. I get the impression my comments are not really respected (mutually) here anyway among most regulars, but I share my 2 cents anyway and give kudos to other users, in the somewhat aloof atmosphere. (I only disappear, after the post editor errors cause my time-consuming drafts to get deleted.) I could say the same information first, but let another user on here repeat it, it's like they cured cancer. In spite of that, I greatly respect the attempts made on this forum to not post misinformation about Fords and stay on track, which a lot of other Ford related forums struggle to do so, by not weeding out bad faith posters or Debbie Downers as you mentioned. It bothers other guys I know personally who comment from a professional perspective online, but I get past it since my info is thirdhand and secondhand at best. I'm not worthy LOL like those insiders. If I was the firsthand source, I'd be more upset and give up entirely, like many of them already do. I'm part of the general public, they're not, so I get their frustration. One source of mine who posted on those truck forums, put in a lot of effort to keep everyone up to speed and gave up eventually for a similar reason. Guys there would doubt him endlessly, felt entitled to proof of his relationship with Ford (or etc) and ignored his insight about Bronco stuff. I think he said another Ford contact on B6G triggered him on possibly doxxing or ratting him out at Ford, so he permanently left. I guess he still comments on other stuff, but says he's done everywhere and will "leave it to middlemen" going forward. He's been generous enough from what I can see over many years. I also can see why some Ford guys here are silent, as it's dangerous fire to play with against a well known Fortune 500 with huge legal arms willing to destroy employees' lives, that don't respect their privacy against competition. Anyway, the auto writers are really lazy from what many of these experts tell me and it's too much of a headache to rebut their lazy reporting, even if misinformation. I've noticed this pattern for years and as someone on the outside (but informed), I often find early info the dumb writers struggle to discover and only get confirmation if an insider vets my discoveries. Then, these writers often steal credit for finding something new, which would happen on M7G with my info posted to the forum. I really did my best in 2020-22 to continue stressing how CD6 no longer had anything to do with things S650 Mustang, but you have to give up at some point. Anyone dumb enough to believe it and just trust em without question, shouldn't be taken seriously as a functioning enthusiast. I get people are busy...but come on. If you can't bother to be on the same page, then why are you entitledly commenting out of ignorance? I love watching YouTube for entertainment, but it's become really obvious how bad it's gotten and I hate giving anyone the adsense $$$ views. Like my cousin often says, everyone wants to be a cut rate Clarkson, Hammond, or Leno on YT, without the credentials to back it up. Yet also dip their hands in other pots (mixing opinion takes with reporting objective news). I don't watch those idiots to see them speculate on what "they think" Ford is doing (with no insight), simply because they copied another vlogger who doesn't know much either and just want easy clicks from ignoramuses who don't know better. Too many dumb bros looking for their monster energy or red bull fix in image trucks and muscle cars, with nothing working upstairs. The social media posts reflect it so much, it's a double face palm on the matter. I'm happy to be a geek/nerd in the enthusiast sense, I don't need my truck or car to speak for my identity. Giving those types a platform to BS is a really bad idea, but outta my hands. We get to deal with a lot of them in the 4x4/muscle car forums anyway, but almost none of them post on here and it's very obvious. They're outwitted. I know you're referring to "thePill" by the third person guy and yeah I take leave of absence on Mustang forums whenever he shows up, to just blather about complete BS. Couldn't get stuff right about S550 in 2012-13, so I peeped his game very quickly and dismissed him on S650 years later, even though several clueless types on M6G gave him an audience and kept attacking me for putting him in his place. I told em to go pound sand. Those types really don't help the stream of credible information and I hope by now everyone has wised up and know better than to trust "the Pill" . I post as amk91 and consider myself much smarter than he is, in my efforts to listen to good insight from experts and put research skills to work. Brett Foote at Ford Authority is just a dolt and the parent company of the forums/sites he posts on, are just asleep at the wheel. I saw what he posted on the S650, but I knew otherwise and left him to sink himself. I don't want to come across as a know it all on those forums (like the experts), because some dudes are probably getting tired of me correcting or forgetting to reply to them. Unfortunately replying to you in this thread required way too much text LOL and might be too off topic, so I think I want to cut it off right here and maybe PM the rest not related to the Mustang Stampede (below). Thanks a billion again. I did attend the Mustang Stampede on September 14, 2022 (plus NAIAS Charity Preview) and it was very disappointing, if not alienating in some respects, where being made to feel third class at times. I attended as just a Mustang owner, not the extended relative of a mid-level white collar Ford employee. I really paid for that and won't take that risk again. I waited in line to get food for 2 hours at Huntington Place (nee Cobo Hall) and by the time of the reveal, when I had finally gotten my BBQ order, I unfortunately found out I would not be sitting in the bleachers nor would much of anyone else, despite being invited as a Mustang owner to watch the reveal live. I would be barred access, as I was magically not on the huge list. I had email confirmation of my invitation and much more. Due to this, didn't even see the S650 up close in the flesh until the pricey Charity NAIAS event where all of them were locked and some had tinted windows on the NAIAS stand. (Photos to large to upload) Sure they were prototypes, yet influencers were allowed to see them unrestricted at the media day of 9/15? SMDH Felt no different than attending the general public show, other than being in a tux. Nice to see Niles Rodgers live, but I won't do that ever again. Very embarrassing and humiliating as an owner of F-150 Raptors and an S550. People who regularly crap on Ford were given preference, over an owner who spent thousands to make the show. Back at the Mustang Stampede, the displeasure of watching those influencer idiots on the Huntington Place overhead big screens, being interviewed (down there) and blustering about nothing tangible, annoyed a lot of us up there blocked from going down. The host wasted so much time talking to pointless individuals (excl FRAP worker & Ford staff) and many of us were physically over it, standing on our aching tiptoes to see past a wall of 6'5 to 7 footers blocking any of us of below 6'2. The photo I posted is an example, because 95% of my Mustang Stampede coverage was MP4 video and not JPEG stills. It makes it hard to consider a new Dark Horse or another Raptor, after that unfortunate experience, having traveled all the way from West Texas and spending so much to attend these events. Outside of those events, it was nice to see parts of Greater Detroit and visit my cousin in Bloomfield Hills, once he returned from a trip (missed the events). If he was there, none of this would've happened, but why should I need him to get through a Mustang event I was invited to independent of him? I avoid nepotism if I can. I actually met both Jim Farley and William Clay Ford Jr and wife Martha Ford, but politely minded my business as they were occupied. Farley is much smaller in person, so cameras really do add pounds. (Good for him honestly.) Ford execs chatting below. (Meeting them was on video, so I cannot post that.) Anyway, you get a good idea of what it was like and since this is the 2024 Ranger thread, I'll try to not veer it off topic any further than I have (not the only one per recent discussion). I expect this to be moderated, due to sheer length.

The current truck ends production in 2032, but that's not yet firm at the moment. I just wonder if they ditch ICE after P703N concludes? Do you mean the T6 architecture or specific P703N generation. I talk with him, but I don't get told everything unfortunately.

Yeah, but that wasn't the point. Ford inadvertently gave everyone a leg up on what they were doing for 2023, when this leaked out 4 YEARS ago against TPTB wishes. That really sucked in 2019, because Toyota and GM were still designing their new trucks, while Nissan was probably done with the 22 Frontier. Toyota voluntarily leaked their own future truck in 2021 more than 2 years before it went on sale in 2024, via a BEV Concept that doesn't exist internally, at least for the Tacoma. Unless that's supposed to be the Hilux BEV they're planning for mid-decade, why show a production truck so early? My source claims his guy at Toyota states there is no BEV Tacoma in planning, but only Hilux in EU and JDM/Asia-Pacific and that wasn't firm yet. The EV truck was just eye candy and an excuse to reveal their future Tacoma early, via a "fake" concept. Or that's the newly rebadged Hilux too, but in BEV grade. It's confusing. That was for hype, because no one cares about the bland car and crossover BEVs, but niche stuff like 4x4s and sports cars. It is all new and apparently the only midsize segment truck that won't be carryover. Will join TNGA-F, which is modular like T3 on the fullsize Fords. My source says that the Ranger and Bronco might leave T6 after this generation ends, but will that be on a downsized F-Series frame (currently T3.5), BEV TE1, and second generation TE2? Too early to know.

It's not gonna be Chicago, maybe NYIAS at earliest. Ordering does open up on April 17th

Unfortunately, pretty much it right there. And the average reader doesn't help, by trusting and reposting links from some of these places who don't get their info right, for the reasons you explained above. I understand when spy shots are involved, but when it's just text with no unnamed or named insider referenced as their source of information, in my opinion it's just not worth acknowledging them. On average they aren't going to do a good job of explaining their own perspective on a theory and would do everyone justice to just BS about their favorite new Ford color or any other fluffy bullcrap, than trying to comment on a yet to be revealed model they have little to zero info for and pass it off as "news". It helps how quickly a few guys and gals here shutdown any misleading BS, so it doesn't get credibility. Much harder in other spaces... Yep, sucks a million. For those of us who know better, thankfully we can see right through those agendas. Whether lazy means to an easy dollar or plainly trying to a manipulate a narrative. It just seems unusually concentrated in terms of automotive stuff.

I know who told them... Makes sense, thanks. Production of the current truck ends in either in March or April, then ordering for the new truck in mid-April I hear. They have to be doing TT builds by now, before PP builds and Job 1 in July. Thanks for pointing that out in your first paragraph, because 2023 is an abbreviated model year and Ford definitely didn't skip anything for 2023. Some of the changes for 2022 hinted at it being a mini-MCA midlife year update for the USDM P375N.

This was from 2021, not last year. Really surprised they'd show it so early, as a fake EV. Guess there's no competition to worry about.

Yeah, anyone with a brain would trust him and not that idiot LOL. But the rest would ask, "Wear r da receiptz"? Brett Foote from what I hear is an absolute dumbass, who has no business writing about anything. Not even about how to play tic-tac-toe. My Ford contact who works at a somewhat senior level in Dearborn, gave me an earful and affirmed much of what I notice as an average Joe trying to find news on incoming stuff. According to him, the automotive media is extremely lazy and obtuse. They really don't do great investigative journalism and as a result, they miss so many easy clues out there and stay in the dark. The average person won't check them on their BS reporting. Plus, the experts in industry, have to think about their job security and neglect getting into a battle of words with them, on their misreporting. The average car enthusiast thinks they're smarter than the next guy, but in reality they just aren't either. Many users here have more common sense as industry observers, but if you go to many other forums not so much. You'll see what I'm getting at, if you check out some of most popular forums, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit (lesser degree). Many Raptor forums are a great example, plus Bronco forums, and Mustang6G. The worst stereotypes on brains versus brawn play out. Mustang7G had a much smarter collective there, because the stupid ones weren't interested in what they couldn't see yet. Now it's revealed, a greater share of those types are appearing and I post less for that reason. I wouldn't trust Ford Authority, unless they repeat many times that they have a direct Ford source for their information. Otherwise, it's just uninformed opinion from the resident dolt in Brett Foote. I thought he was an okay guy, until my Ford source told me everything I needed to know about him and that he no longer provides inside info to Ford Authority for that reason. They get so many things wrong and are only good for spy shot photos, which require nothing but cash/credit card/check/e-transfer from them. The other writers are acceptable at least, just not Brett. I just had a long chat with a longtime Ford source of mine over such this dilemma he shares with you and gotta chime in. It pisses me off how insiders like you and others I come across, often get overshadowed by idiots like Brett Foote at the helm, spreading misinformation. He's a lackadaisical dumbass, phoning it in. So many websites owned by Internet Brands, he apparently posts ignorant fluff pieces (that read like Engrish spambotting) as "journalism" and it's honestly because of Internet Brands allegedly giving him the latitude to get away with it, to drive clicks for the simpletons. On certain forums, most people don't take the bait from his quota spam-posting, unless it's VERY interesting subject matter, even though he does a piss poor job at it 99% of the time. It's sad. These braindead journos mess up a lot of things and make it hard to have an honest look at the industry. Brett Foote is one out of many out there and I see plenty blame to go around for that. Most people/"car enthusiasts"are too proudly ignorant to think in the abstract and learn how the automotive industry REALLY works. They instead lazily trust clickbait places like TFL, Ford Authority, Auto Blog, Motor1 and etc who often know next to nothing about future models, if a source doesn't inform them directly. Even MT and C&D have fallen in credibility to some degree, on what I see there as well. They copy paste from each other with no shame, from what he told me in an expert capacity and what I see myself. These journalistic idiots often cannot realize new developments on their own and at least piece new info together themselves. They need it spoonfed or to steal it from someone else, before they notice. Especially forums, with unsuspecting users being denied due credit. Brett Foote called the new '23 Super Duty a P702 in a FA article and my Ford contact corrected them to it being P708. This Ford internal info has been out there since 2017-18, yet FA couldn't get it right 4-5 years later? My insider allegedly got his post summarily blocked from submission on FA and other posts attempting to correct any other Brett Foote gaffes too, like how the F-150 MCA was inaccurately called a 2025 by FA and they wouldn't retract it, despite him warning them. One of few vehicles he was working on between Allen Park & Dearborn and tried to let Brett Foote know, it was MY2024 in late 2023. He said this apparently in 2021 too. I get news ain't always perfect, but the standards are piss poor lately and basically anarchy. It's one thing, give or take, to trust general news sources on national and global events, but on things automotive? No thanks dude. Even CNBC and Fox News make many mistakes in their automotive coverage, but try to mask their gaffes by silencing criticism. Aside from those two major networks, I'll say this about the rest. They all operate nowadays like tabloid reporters and/or glorified bloggers, not credible automotive journalists. Too much credibility is given to these idiot clickbait vlogger dudebros, who are often not trained professionally in this area and the many braindead members of the public, follow their every word on social media. See YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram for this frustrating trend. Clickbait, clickbait, clickbait, and dimwitted opinion pieces. My Millennial generation, middle-aged Xers (tail end), and Zoomers are feeding this annoying frenzy with zero common sense. It really, really, really, REALLY SUCKS! I come to them to learn new info, not run away with nothing new and misinformation instead. They all posted the worst clickbait about the S650 and made it hard to keep track of reliable information. Yet on September 14th, Ford rolled out the red carpet for many of them and shafted many of us Mustang owners who attended the Mustang Stampede reveal in Detroit with guest passes on our necks, yet they wouldn't allow us to be seated in the reveal section and all of us struggled to see the car, no thanks to a wall of basketball players blocking the view (LOL). It was absolutely insulting as a consistent Ford buyer and invited guest with a pass, that the same dimwitted influencers and third-rate "journalists" who misinform people, were allowed alongside Ford peeps in the stands to see the car up close. I digress. The real problem with rampant misinformation, is how no one realizes this and it goes on unchallenged. Only the insiders willing to point things out and set things straight, seem to make a difference in quiet spots like this forum or the few of us trying to be the middlemen. If we had more insiders willing to debunk their widespread conjecture, the clickbait charlatans would all vanish off the face of the earth. This is what happens ultimately when their overrated voice goes unchallenged by real experts, who actually know what's happening. Marketing teams help feed this too, by being manipulative with the dumbed down narratives they put out regarding automobiles and automotive development. Ask the average "truck enthusiast" how long they think it took to develop the current F-150 and you'll get some of the dumbest answers, because the TPTB at these companies passively like their buyers that way. Keep em stupid enough to just buy without many questions and the mediocre writers sure do help achieve that convenient goal. There are plenty more Brett Foote's out there and as long as no one calls them on their bull, they'll keep doing it. It doesn't hurt the bottom line on a grand scale, but enough opinionated idiots will eventually hear other bad writers' conjecture pieces (ie on recalls) against Ford (or insert other automaker) and trust what the stupid writer wrote, sending them in the other direction to competition. MB/BMW don't seem to have that problem for some reason, because they shut up the dumbasses with PR agents debunking hearsay and even leak their own info to keep things straight.