igor Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 It seems the design is not set in stone - the car at the NAIAS was sort of a tester, and Ford was ready to incorporate feedback to the final design that will be revealed later. As I am typing this, apparently the car is getting what can be considered a face lift. we shall see the result soon. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken F. Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Cool . . . Just leave the sheet metal and non functional buzz-dingers alone and add the Duratorq and 5-speed manual please . . . in the 45-50mpg tune. I know, I know . . . EPA, blah, blah, blah. Remeber, VW & Honda will be there very soon. (sans excuses) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) It seems the design is not set in stone - the car at the NAIAS was sort of a tester, and Ford was ready to incorporate feedback to the final design that will be revealed later. As I am typing this, apparently the car is getting what can be considered a face lift. we shall see the result soon. Igor Sounds like spin to me.... Reality is they got such a negative reaction they HAD to go back to the drawing board... WITH THAT SAID, It is bullshit anyway if they cannot at least get three bars on the grille... I wonder when Ford is actually going to get serious about car design again. They need to start hiring people with imagination. Edited March 26, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 (edited) Sounds like spin to me.... Reality is they got such a negative reaction they HAD to go back to the drawing board... WITH THAT SAID, It is bullshit anyway if they cannot at least get three bars on the grille... I wonder when Ford is actually going to get serious about car design again. They need to start hiring people with imagination. You mean the design of the fusion, edge, super duty, flex. Hmmm.....I think those are imagintive enough. Edited March 26, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds91776 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 If this is true then I'm going to throw in my two cents. Overall the design shown at Detroit was better than I hoped, especially the body of the car, very sleek and a lot more different than the Gen 1 and Gen 1.5 than I expected. If I were in charge of updating the front and rear clips I would make the rear tailamps go farther down the rear bumper a little. At the front I would carry the headlamps down into the bumper fully but keep the upper shape of the lamps intact, it is a sporty and nice shape. The top grill I would remove the bars and make it a thin opening with the Ford oval in the center. The lower grill would borrow from the Reflex concept with its "lower scowl-like tri-bar design." Anyway Ford, I think you did a decent job on the 08 Focus considering the constraints, but if there are going to be some changes before production then good job responding to the love it/hate it reaction that the 08 Focus got in Detroit. If this is true I hope we see it in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 The lower grill would borrow from the Reflex concept with its "lower scowl-like tri-bar design." I really hope Ford implements design elements from the Reflex concept somehow on the C2 Focus or Fiesta. It was a sharp looking little car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misteredog Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) The only things I really hate about the '08 Focus are the fact that they've done away with the hatches and the wagon versions, the only models I had any real interest in, and that the coupe doesn't even look especially sporty, it just a frumpy 2 door sedan. Why didn't they at least make it fasback? A fastback hatch version in 2 and 4 door iterations with a profile someting like the Mazda 6 5 door's would have been really sweet. Instead we get an okay looking 4 door sedan which can offer no compelling reason tochoose it over a Corolla, Civic, Cobalt, etc. and a rathe awkward coupe which doesn't even look remotely sporty when compared to the Civic or Cobalt. Bold Move, eh? Edited March 27, 2007 by Misteredog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) The only things I really hate about the '08 Focus are the fact that they've done away with the hatches and the wagon versions, the only models I had any real interest in, and that the coupe doesn't even look especially sporty, it just a frumpy 2 door sedan. Why didn't they at least make it fasback? A fastback hatch version in 2 and 4 door iterations with a profile someting like the Mazda 6 5 door's would have been really sweet. Instead we get an okay looking 4 door sedan which can offer no compelling reason tochoose it over a Corolla, Civic, Cobalt, etc. and a rathe awkward coupe which doesn't even look remotely sporty when compared to the Civic or Cobalt. Bold Move, eh? As impressive as all the technical upgrades Ford NA has done with this car (which boggles my mind for a 3 year run $$$$$spent) , appearance wise I have no confidence that the designers had/have any idea what to do with this thing. The concept displayed at the recent auto shows, makes it very apparent the designers were totally lost on which direction to go as far as exterior. IMO it does not resemble what the world considers to be what a Focus looks like. Also the dash execution copies the new Escape so much so, it gives the new Focus a very truck like look inside. But the seats do look rather good. Do any others here doubt that the C2/MKIII Focus will make it to Noth America. Reason I ask is when reading all the upgrades and engineering Ford has done to the 2008 C170, leaves me thinking that Ford spent huge amounts of $'s, hence the same excuses will be read again in 2009 not to expect the 2010 C2/MKIII Focus because of the high costs on redesigned 2008, plus the high costs to certify the MKIII for North America. you know the same stuff we read from Ford press releases for the MY2005, and now the MY2008. Edited March 27, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Do any others here doubt that the C2/MKIII Focus will make it to Noth America. Reason I ask is when reading all the upgrades and engineering Ford has done to the 2008 C170, leaves me thinking that Ford spent huge amounts of $'s, hence the same excuses will be read again in 2009 not to expect the 2010 C2/MKIII Focus because of the high costs on redesigned 2008, plus the high costs to certify the MKIII for North America. you know the same stuff we read from Ford press releases for the MY2005, and now the MY2008. Nothing would surprise me these days coming from Ford. However, I do think the '08 Focus was simply the result of Ford's new commitment to refreshed vehicles. Fields has said that refreshes are going to be more substantial going forward, and hopefully this holds true, just so long as it doesn't interfere in new platform integration such as the scenario you outlined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Nothing would surprise me these days coming from Ford. However, I do think the '08 Focus was simply the result of Ford's new commitment to refreshed vehicles. Fields has said that refreshes are going to be more substantial going forward, and hopefully this holds true, just so long as it doesn't interfere in new platform integration such as the scenario you outlined. Focus was approved way before Fields ... I know I inquired insiders about the 08 Focus in SUMMER 2005 and the answer I got was that 'The 08 Focus is done and it is not C1" The 08 Focus WAS intended to run full 5-7 year product cycle, but Fields changed that shortly after he took over as Chief of NA. Now with Mulally at the whelm, there is NO CHANCE IN HELL he would allow the Focus to continue outside global platforms. And remember 2 things 1) there is practically no one above Mulally, and 2) the Financial committee does not anymore have final say on capital projects -they only approve annual budget for the management team ... Mulally is in charge of allocating all the money to his discretion. The C2 is coming and soon .. even news outlets like DetNews already caught up to that fact. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Focus was approved way before Fields ... I know I inquired insiders about the 08 Focus in SUMMER 2005 and the answer I got was that 'The 08 Focus is done and it is not C1" The 08 Focus WAS intended to run full 5-7 year product cycle, but Fields changed that shortly after he took over as Chief of NA. Now with Mulally at the whelm, there is NO CHANCE IN HELL he would allow the Focus to continue outside global platforms. And remember 2 things 1) there is practically no one above Mulally, and 2) the Financial committee does not anymore have final say on capital projects -they only approve annual budget for the management team ... Mulally is in charge of allocating all the money to his discretion. The C2 is coming and soon .. even news outlets like DetNews already caught up to that fact. Igor Maybe my memory is wrong, but recall reading a article back in 2004 interview with Phil Martens stating Ford's North American Focus will join the C1 architecture in approximately three years when all Volvo, Ford, Mazda, and Mercury small cars and crossovers adopt this platform. Cost concerns kept Ford from launching the 2005 Focus on this platform this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 Maybe my memory is wrong, but recall reading a article back in 2004 interview with Phil Martens stating Ford's North American Focus will join the C1 architecture in approximately three years when all Volvo, Ford, Mazda, and Mercury small cars and crossovers adopt this platform. Cost concerns kept Ford from launching the 2005 Focus on this platform this year. hmm interesting .. that is way before my time in the online-auto-blogging ... I wonder .. and it seems that thew C1 was on the table for the 2008 introduction, but it was canned in favor of the C170 rework ... Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) hmm interesting .. that is way before my time in the online-auto-blogging ... I wonder .. and it seems that thew C1 was on the table for the 2008 introduction, but it was canned in favor of the C170 rework ... Igor What is really interesting is it was not too long after this article, when Ford announced Mark Fields as President of the Americas (sorry if the title is incorrect)articles appeared stating that the 2008 Focus would remain on the C170 platform. So within a few months the C170/C1 ruse started again, which brings me to my perception again for the said announcement of the 2010/11 MKIII platform making it to the North American market. As I noted previously, the amount of money Ford had to have spent on the changes for the 2008, just the engineering changes alone,never mind appearance exterior and interior change costs, for a 3 year run, along with forecasted future financial loses does not make any sense how Ford expects to be able to afford the MKIII by 2010/11. Not when Ford has in the past used the too-expensive for NA market card. I hope Ford NA proves me wrong. Edited March 27, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 As I noted previously, the amount of money Ford had to have spent on the changes for the 2008, just the engineering changes alone,never mind appearance exterior and interior change costs, for a 3 year run, along with forecasted future financial loses does not make any sense how Ford expects to be able to afford the MKIII by 2010/11. Not when Ford has in the past used the too-expensive for NA market card. I hope Ford NA proves me wrong. Eh, the engineering changes probably aren't as significant as they sound on paper. Plus they axed the development costs of having to refresh the wagon and hatch variants altogether, so they likely saved quite a chunk of change on the project as a whole. Developing a coupe version of the 4-door likely didn't cost much at all as from what I can tell they still utilize the same floorpan and wheelbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Eh, the engineering changes probably aren't as significant as they sound on paper. Plus they axed the development costs of having to refresh the wagon and hatch variants altogether, so they likely saved quite a chunk of change on the project as a whole. Developing a coupe version of the 4-door likely didn't cost much at all as from what I can tell they still utilize the same floorpan and wheelbase. Thanks Nick. Just wanted to note some of the noted changes in recent articles. Engineers reworked and improved the strength of the roof structure, the package tray, the connections between the rear floor and the underbody and the door systems. A stiffened cross-car beam under the instrument panel connects the car side-to-side . The front stabilizer bar diameters have been increased over 2007, from 18 millimeters to 20 millimeters on the 15-inch wheel tuning package, and from 21 millimeters to 22 millimeters on the 16-inch wheel tuning package. All-new brake system for 2008. New aluminum calipers save weight and improve brake pedal feel. The brakes are 10.9-inch vented discs in front and 11.0-inch drums in back An all-new air intake system, cooling and exhaust system are designed to improve the powertrain's smoothness, efficiency and response. We spent many hours in the wind tunnel developing the shapes of exterior parts like mirrors and front openings, spoilers, and the shape of the air deflectors under the car. There was a lot of work done to improve aerodynamics and reduce noise inside the car." At a simulated 80 mph in the wind tunnel, the previous Focus had 28.8 sones of wind noise while the new model recorded 25.6, an eleven percent reduction in wind noise. In a test of road noise (boom, rumble, roar), decibel levels inside Focus dropped from 70 dBA to 67.3. New acoustic windshield and thicker side glass in the front doors (increased in thickness from 3.2 to 3.8 millimeters). Closed-cell foam for the dash panel seal, as opposed to open-cell foam material, also helps reduce wind noise. Fluffy cotton-like sound-deadening material has been added to the door trim panels, C-pillars and the flat shelf behind the rear seats to reduce cabin noise, and the sealing around the side mirrors is redesigned. An all-new climate control system that is more efficient with improved cooling and heating . Redesigned HVAC system results in a climate control system that is quieter, lighter in weight and more effective in cooling and heating the cabin. Like you say on paper these changes look major. especially items that are as they say "all-new" designs. Edited March 27, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 (edited) Thanks Nick. Just wanted to note some of the noted changes in recent articles. Engineers reworked and improved the strength of the roof structure, the package tray, the connections between the rear floor and the underbody and the door systems. A stiffened cross-car beam under the instrument panel connects the car side-to-side . The front stabilizer bar diameters have been increased over 2007, from 18 millimeters to 20 millimeters on the 15-inch wheel tuning package, and from 21 millimeters to 22 millimeters on the 16-inch wheel tuning package. All-new brake system for 2008. New aluminum calipers save weight and improve brake pedal feel. The brakes are 10.9-inch vented discs in front and 11.0-inch drums in back An all-new air intake system, cooling and exhaust system are designed to improve the powertrain's smoothness, efficiency and response. We spent many hours in the wind tunnel developing the shapes of exterior parts like mirrors and front openings, spoilers, and the shape of the air deflectors under the car. There was a lot of work done to improve aerodynamics and reduce noise inside the car." At a simulated 80 mph in the wind tunnel, the previous Focus had 28.8 sones of wind noise while the new model recorded 25.6, an eleven percent reduction in wind noise. In a test of road noise (boom, rumble, roar), decibel levels inside Focus dropped from 70 dBA to 67.3. New acoustic windshield and thicker side glass in the front doors (increased in thickness from 3.2 to 3.8 millimeters). Closed-cell foam for the dash panel seal, as opposed to open-cell foam material, also helps reduce wind noise. Fluffy cotton-like sound-deadening material has been added to the door trim panels, C-pillars and the flat shelf behind the rear seats to reduce cabin noise, and the sealing around the side mirrors is redesigned. An all-new climate control system that is more efficient with improved cooling and heating . Redesigned HVAC system results in a climate control system that is quieter, lighter in weight and more effective in cooling and heating the cabin. Like you say on paper these changes look major. especially items that are as they say "all-new" designs. Well, they aren't all MINOR changes, but the most expensive costs in the refresh process are usually those that involve changes to the underlying structure, which seems to be kept to a minimum in this case. With no major structural changes, there's little need to computer model tortional rigidity, chassis flex, crash worthiness, etc as extensively as would be required for a more thorough reworking of key components. Powertrain upgrades were also kept to a minimum, sadly. Edited March 27, 2007 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focalxplosion Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 My impression is that the plan is to have a global car by 2011. However if Ford had known up front what this "refresh" would cost we would have had C1 for 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 You mean the design of the fusion, edge, super duty, flex. Hmmm.....I think those are imagintive enough. Not imaginitive enough... I see no future in these designs... The are just something for Ford to do to hang on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Not imaginitive enough... I see no future in these designs... The are just something for Ford to do to hang on.. Well then, can you tell me some designs that you can see a future in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Well then, can you tell me some designs that you can see a future in. Presently there are none. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Well then, can you tell me some designs that you can see a future in. http://video-tvl.brainlane.com/play.asp?fi...76.wmv?source=1 Edited March 28, 2007 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtcobra2383 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 (edited) Presently there are none. Period. what car design has this future you speak of? I think Ford is putting out some good looking product. The shelf life of a car design really isn't all that much anyways, 4-5 years maybe. So what exactly do you mean? Edited April 5, 2007 by svtcobra2383 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The only things I really hate about the '08 Focus are the fact that they've done away with the hatches and the wagon versions, the only models I had any real interest in ... Mr Mullay recently got the same exact feedback from some very highly respected journalists ! Not certain what he is going to do about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meelaan Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Customer suggestion: Make it not break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I know that we had this discussion about the hatches and wagons, and I am with those that don't want Ford to drop the hatches and/or wagons. But I was told that the sedans make up the vast majority of all Focus's sold. I cant argue with the actual numbers, but it seems to me that the majority of the Focus's I see are hatches. I recently began to consider the fleet numbers, and I was surprised at the high numbers of Focus's that were being sold to fleet customers. That got me thinking that since you rarely see a hatch in a rental fleet, maybe the reason the numbers are so skewed towards the sedan are the number of fleet cars. Maybe the hatch is actually a better sale for Ford as it would go to a retail customer. Of course this is all speculation as I haven't been able to find actual sales numbers per body style let alone body style to fleet vs retail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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