UAW to meet with Toyota Employees This Weekend

[uRfk9AcDfo9Wui]

HA thats wishful thinking. Until the union gets rid of the mindset that all deserve equal representation the problem just grows like a cancer.The union knows who the problem workers are they repesent them all the time but when a workhorse has a real problem its like pissing on a flat rock.What really blew my mind is that when plants started to close and relocations were opened I thought how in the hell do people with that kind of work history and all the medical restrictions even get considered?Answer=The Union!!!!!Even better alot of them chose to puchase and drive imports.Talk about biting the hand that feeds.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better, Brother!!!

 

I'll bet over half of the people that transfer from NAP to DTP had a medical history a mile long, restrictions out the ass, or a AWOL list that would choke a goat. You know why they transferred??? Because the union will protect them and make sure they don't get fucked with or lose their job. They would never make it in the real world. The union LOVE these kind of people with out them they don't have a job. They could give a rat’s ass about a person that shows up every day and does his job.

[Grey Goose]

I personally dont have any sympathy for them. They are the ones that have been choosing to vote no for union representation. If i were Gettlefinger i would say that we will try to organize Toyota again in 5 more years. Then lets see how the slant eyed bastards treat their employees the next 5 years! These people have been playing both sides against the middle for years. I say fuckem, let em suffer for awhile! The uaw has spent too much of my union dues trying to organize these clowns already. They use us to get better benefits and dont have to pay union dues.

AMEN Brother. I say Fuck those Toyota scabs. They have lived off our hard won bargaining from the beginning with their bullshit "teamwork" preaching and their scab commercials of Americans standing there lauding the virtues of their Japanese "partners" Partners my ass ! Robber barons is a more appropriate term for Toyota and SCAB COWARDS is a more appropriate term for the workers.

That American Toyota worker looks into my TV screen on their commercials and says "Pride, its all about pride" Pride my ASS. Fuck You asshole. You and your entire family are nothing but freeloading SCAB COWARDS if you ask me. Now those cowards are about to get what they deserve. I say fuck 'em. Make them wait and twist in the wind.

On any given night you can turn on the history or military channel and see NISSAN trucks hauling away the bodies of dead American GI's in the thousands thrown in the back of the pickup beds like so much garbage, my ancestors, YOUR ancestors and these people want to work for them? Mitsubishi engines powered the planes who snuck up on Pearl Harbor whats next? Al Qaida Motor Company?

I SAY FUCK THEM AND THE RAT BASTARD SLANT EYED SUBHUMAN FUCKS THEY WORK FOR. And that goes for any American Senator who is willing to put a fucking Japanese dick in his mouth to get a scab Jap plant in their state as well.

Now You want the UAW's help? You want my dues to go to helping Toyota workers? FUCK OFF!

Toyota would NOT be what they are today without the ability to produce and sell their bullshit products in this country with an almost unbelievable set of advantages. The same applies to Nissan, Honda Mitsubishi all of them. Those companies and their American workers MAKE ME FUCKING SICK !

Just this American hillbillies opinion...but I SAY FUCK THEM !

Better that between the two of us , the Union and the companies, Ford GM and Chrysler, we fix our problems, let the Japanese fucktards begin to start paying their legacy costs in the coming years...and let them all get what they deserve. Let them go scurrying back to their shitty little rock of an island that can't support or sustain itself without leaching off the rest of the worlds resources and LET THEM FUCKING DIE A SLOW PAINFUL DEATH WHICH IS WHAT THEY ALL DESERVE.

Again, just this hillbillies opinion.

[ebritt]

AMEN Brother. I say Fuck those Toyota scabs. They have lived off our hard won bargaining from the beginning with their bullshit "teamwork" preaching and their scab commercials of Americans standing there lauding the virtues of their Japanese "partners" Partners my ass ! Robber barons is a more appropriate term for Toyota and SCAB COWARDS is a more appropriate term for the workers.

That American Toyota worker looks into my TV screen on their commercials and says "Pride, its all about pride" Pride my ASS. Fuck You asshole. You and your entire family are nothing but freeloading SCAB COWARDS if you ask me. Now those cowards are about to get what they deserve. I say fuck 'em. Make them wait and twist in the wind.

On any given night you can turn on the history or military channel and see NISSAN trucks hauling away the bodies of dead American GI's in the thousands thrown in the back of the pickup beds like so much garbage, my ancestors, YOUR ancestors and these people want to work for them? Mitsubishi engines powered the planes who snuck up on Pearl Harbor whats next? Al Qaida Motor Company?

I SAY FUCK THEM AND THE RAT BASTARD SLANT EYED SUBHUMAN FUCKS THEY WORK FOR. And that goes for any American Senator who is willing to put a fucking Japanese dick in his mouth to get a scab Jap plant in their state as well.

Now You want the UAW's help? You want my dues to go to helping Toyota workers? FUCK OFF!

Toyota would NOT be what they are today without the ability to produce and sell their bullshit products in this country with an almost unbelievable set of advantages. The same applies to Nissan, Honda Mitsubishi all of them. Those companies and their American workers MAKE ME FUCKING SICK !

Just this American hillbillies opinion...but I SAY FUCK THEM !

Better that between the two of us , the Union and the companies, Ford GM and Chrysler, we fix our problems, let the Japanese fucktards begin to start paying their legacy costs in the coming years...and let them all get what they deserve. Let them go scurrying back to their shitty little rock of an island that can't support or sustain itself without leaching off the rest of the worlds resources and LET THEM FUCKING DIE A SLOW PAINFUL DEATH WHICH IS WHAT THEY ALL DESERVE.

Again, just this hillbillies opinion.

 

Amen!!

[AdamCaan]

Soo true just wish all the good workers would stand up and complain about this protection by the union, I've always hated the statement "its not my job" and so many LAZY people get away with it!! These few people give the good works bad names outside the union and the union needs to stand up and get rid of these lazy workers!!!!!

 

The only way to get the UAW leadership to pay attention to the rank and file is to quit paying union dues. The leadership is used to members complaining and will continue to ignore you.

 

Quit paying union dues and you will get there attention along with there harassment.

[Harry Bennet]

Have you ever seen the South Park episode with the Underpants Gnomes?

(I should posted a link to youtube or wikipedia)

anyway, these gnomes are real ambitous and serious, kinda like the 7 dwarves or Smurfs

their mantra was ' Phase One: Get Underpants!!, Phase Three: Profit$$$!'

and NO ONE knew what phase Two could possibly be, but they ate the cornbread and could not be convinced any other way than this plan would bring in huge profits

These Underpants Gnomes remind me of the UAW hopes of organizing Toyota

How is this supposed to help Ford and GM workers?

If anything, the UAW would dust off the old whip saw technique, neogitate with the most profitable car maker and use that as pattern barginning. Toyota could take it to $80/hr, then there would be no Ford or GM inside 3 years

So, How is this supposed to help Ford workers get raises and profit sharing checks ??

what's phase 2??

Edited April 6, 2007 by Harry Bennet

[Monkeywrentch]

Have you ever seen the South Park episode with the Underpants Gnomes?

(I should posted a link to youtube or wikipedia)

anyway, these gnomes are real ambitous and serious, kinda like the 7 dwarves or Smurfs

their mantra was ' Phase One: Get Underpants!!, Phase Three: Profit$$$!'

and NO ONE knew what phase Two could possibly be, but they ate the cornbread and could not be convinced any other way than this plan would bring in huge profits

These Underpants Gnomes remind me of the UAW hopes of organizing Toyota

How is this supposed to help Ford and GM workers?

If anything, the UAW would dust off the old whip saw technique, neogitate with the most profitable car maker and use that as pattern barginning. Toyota could take it to $80/hr, then there would be no Ford or GM inside 3 years

So, How is this supposed to help Ford workers get raises and profit sharing checks ??

what's phase 2??

That my friend is an excellent point a tad far fetched but a good way to look at it none the less.

[Imawhosure]

You guys are not thinking out of the box, that is for sure. I am amazed how shortsighted some of you seem to be.

 

Do not think for an instant that I do not think the UAW could screw the pooch if they get them on board, but when you have a blank piece of paper on a table on which to write a contract, and YOUR job as a union is supposedly to protect ALL autoworkers, the possibilitys are endless on how to do it when dealing with the 100 pd gorilla known as Toyota.

 

While many of you dislike the way Bluecon, myself, FMCCAP, and even Trimdingman think, I am sure we could devise an ARTICLE inside their contract to help Ford, GM, and Chrysler workers without seeming to point it in that direction to make it palatable.

 

For instance--------->Since marketshare dictates the safety of the retirement(sub fund, insurance fund, gen pool fund, and any other kind of fund) fund for autoworkers at each company, the company will now no longer pay per head working, but pay by unit sold. Of course it would be put into legaleeze. That would mean many of the benefits would be provided by the company selling the most cars, or at least help prop up the funds for ALL workers.

 

It is a blank sheet of paper fellas, I am sure you could devise similar plans to move money between autoworkers of different companys if ya thought hard enough, thus alleviating some of the financial burden on the companys struggling.

 

And do not think there is NOT justification for this kind of movement of monies. When car companys went on strike before, money at times was withdrawn from other companys strike funds or directly from the workers at other companys, to help prop up the strike.

 

If the UAW can pull this off, and if they play it correctly, it will help all unionized autoworkers in this country, including theirs.

 

Once more, IF they become union, you would have VIRTUALLY EVERY autoworker in this country putting pressure on our government to stop imports of Chinese vehicles, Korean vehicles, etc, or at least tax them on the way in. Not to mention, the rest of the smaller transplant companys would begin to fall like a house of cards towards unionism.

 

I contend if you look at the big picture, there is much more to like about them joining, then to dislike about it............if you can think out of the box!!!!!!!!!!

[Monkeywrentch]

You guys are not thinking out of the box, that is for sure. I am amazed how shortsighted some of you seem to be.

 

Do not think for an instant that I do not think the UAW could screw the pooch if they get them on board, but when you have a blank piece of paper on a table on which to write a contract, and YOUR job as a union is supposedly to protect ALL autoworkers, the possibilitys are endless on how to do it when dealing with the 100 pd gorilla known as Toyota.

 

While many of you dislike the way Bluecon, myself, FMCCAP, and even Trimdingman think, I am sure we could devise an ARTICLE inside their contract to help Ford, GM, and Chrysler workers without seeming to point it in that direction to make it palatable.

 

For instance--------->Since marketshare dictates the safety of the retirement(sub fund, insurance fund, gen pool fund, and any other kind of fund) fund for autoworkers at each company, the company will now no longer pay per head working, but pay by unit sold. Of course it would be put into legaleeze. That would mean many of the benefits would be provided by the company selling the most cars, or at least help prop up the funds for ALL workers.

 

It is a blank sheet of paper fellas, I am sure you could devise similar plans to move money between autoworkers of different companys if ya thought hard enough, thus alleviating some of the financial burden on the companys struggling.

 

And do not think there is NOT justification for this kind of movement of monies. When car companys went on strike before, money at times was withdrawn from other companys strike funds or directly from the workers at other companys, to help prop up the strike.

 

If the UAW can pull this off, and if they play it correctly, it will help all unionized autoworkers in this country, including theirs.

 

Once more, IF they become union, you would have VIRTUALLY EVERY autoworker in this country putting pressure on our government to stop imports of Chinese vehicles, Korean vehicles, etc, or at least tax them on the way in. Not to mention, the rest of the smaller transplant companys would begin to fall like a house of cards towards unionism.

 

I contend if you look at the big picture, there is much more to like about them joining, then to dislike about it............if you can think out of the box!!!!!!!!!!

Another really good point the variables of this scienario seem to be endless.But back to my question If Unionized would the Transplants get the made in the USA stamp of approval.Not that im looking for justification before anyone reads anything into my post I have 2 well built Fords in my driveway.For years thats all Ive heard BUY American,BUY American.They are built in America by American hands.Alot of the parts are built in America by Americans.Call the workers what you want Scabs,bottom feeders,fools whatever.A large portion of them woulnt know a collective bargaining agreement if it were put before them.They want a check like anyone else And I believe it was a certain Peanut Farmer from the Plains of Georgia that convinced The Japanese it would be a win win situatoin for them to set up shop here.I dont fault the worker.I fault the past arrogance of the Big 3 and the UAW.Maby just maby its time for a new stratagy.

[BTV to SHV Transferee]

Now that all the UAW bashers have had their turn bashing the UAW for organizing Toyota, lets see why the UAw really needs to organize Toyota. It has nothing to do with dues money. It has everything to do with what the UAW has gained for the Unionized worker for the last 65 years. The same thing the Steelworkers, Teamsters, UFCW, Machinist, Textile workers have faced for 20 years or better. Taking the jobs off shore to be made with cheap labor and bringing the goods back home to be sold at a premium price.

 

When the UAW bargains for with the 'Big 3' they really bargain for all auto plants. The un-organized plants all have pay and benefits similar to the 'Big 3' to keep the Union (UAW or any other Union) out. It isnt up to the company to keep the Union out, it actually up to the employee, but if the company doesnt want the employee to have a voice, they shut them up with $$$$. $$$$$ talks loud and when it is given, it's called 'paid silence'. It's all about CONTROL. For years companies have been fighting Union's because it takes 90% control away from the company. Pay, benefits, work rules & safety are no longer dictated by a boss sitting behind a desk telling 2,500 workers what to do second by second. The Union doesnt let the same boss change the rules as he sees fit for the moment. It also doesnt let him have favorites to pit one employee against the other (divide and conquer).

 

Toyota, Nissan and Hyundai all use temp employees. Why? Because of the low wages and no benefits which means higher profits. If you actually think KIA in Georgia is going to hire full time employees for their new plant, think again. Only Honda has all full time regular employees. I'm not a Honda lover, but at least they have full time employees with an actual pension and benefits. 30% of Toyota's employees work for Toyota. The other 70% = temps. Hyundai went one step further, they imported 60% of their workforce from Korea! Can you say a whole new "Little Seoul" will pop up in Georgia around the new KIA plant?

 

Why does the UAW continue to send fat white guys down to the southern states, where the workers are primarily black and/or hispanic to organize? The first thing that pops into the workers mind is, "I'm not joining whitey's Union'. The UAW needs to send the same demographic of people that work in the plants.

Also, they need to spell out about how 'right-to-work' is nothing but exploitation of the workers. EDUCATION folks.

 

I understand that most of these workers have never had a decent paying job and now that they do, they dont want to rock the boat. $14.00hr looks really good when you are used to making only $6-$8.00 hr most of your working life. The company put the fear into you how you will loose your income due to strikes and "high Union dues". Again, EDUCATION!

 

The UAW needs these workers to be Union for the sake of industry to be on a level playing field. Hyundai has already said they want to import trucks when the wonderful republican president signs the free trade agreement with Korea.

[DearbornDerek]

Another really good point the variables of this scienario seem to be endless.But back to my question If Unionized would the Transplants get the made in the USA stamp of approval.Not that im looking for justification before anyone reads anything into my post I have 2 well built Fords in my driveway.For years thats all Ive heard BUY American,BUY American.They are built in America by American hands.Alot of the parts are built in America by Americans.Call the workers what you want Scabs,bottom feeders,fools whatever.A large portion of them woulnt know a collective bargaining agreement if it were put before them.They want a check like anyone else And I believe it was a certain Peanut Farmer from the Plains of Georgia that convinced The Japanese it would be a win win situatoin for them to set up shop here.I dont fault the worker.I fault the past arrogance of the Big 3 and the UAW.Maby just maby its time for a new stratagy.

 

Well, since a few of the transplants get the "seal" of approval now ( http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2007/index.cfm ) I'm sure they all will when/if they become unionized.

[Imawhosure]

Another really good point the variables of this scienario seem to be endless.But back to my question If Unionized would the Transplants get the made in the USA stamp of approval.Not that im looking for justification before anyone reads anything into my post I have 2 well built Fords in my driveway.For years thats all Ive heard BUY American,BUY American.They are built in America by American hands.Alot of the parts are built in America by Americans.Call the workers what you want Scabs,bottom feeders,fools whatever.A large portion of them woulnt know a collective bargaining agreement if it were put before them.They want a check like anyone else And I believe it was a certain Peanut Farmer from the Plains of Georgia that convinced The Japanese it would be a win win situatoin for them to set up shop here.I dont fault the worker.I fault the past arrogance of the Big 3 and the UAW.Maby just maby its time for a new stratagy.

 

 

Monkey,

 

Good points, but you are talking apples and oranges kind of. You see, it is unimportant if they get that seal approval of American from a union standpoint. From Ford and GMs perspective, maybe. And yet, Ford and GMs whine has always been that they have an advantage, so their solution is to take from you.

 

I am not an economist, nor am I an accountant, but logic says that if parity becomes reality, Ford and GM MUST quit pointing at us as a smoke screen, and start pointing the finger at themselves.

 

The unions main objective SHOULD be to take the discussion of our compensation out of the mix as far as a reason, and unionizing the competition making them equal in every respect would do that. In other words---------->if they have a point and IT is part of the reason, it goes away. If it is NOT a large part of the reason, so what, it goes away too.

 

My main concern for UAW workers and retirees is------------>that YOU quit getting blamed for the problems. A parity agreement of any kind solves that problem right now. Not to mention, it also protects their workers from their companys greed.

 

I contend that if played correctly, it could be a win, win, for everyone in the industry........as far as the bluecollar workforces are concerned.

 

That is what we must be concerned about!!!!!! All the noise about union being the problem will change to what we can do UNDER the agreement to help Ford and GM. That is far better than being told to CHANGE THE AGREEMENT to help them, don't you think!?!?!?!?!?!

[Harry Bennet]

This is FUN!!

Phase 1: organize Transplants

Phase 3: Heaven on Earth

with every new opinion on what organized transplants would mean, it shows me how much organizing the transplants won't change what it means to a Ford or GM worker

Imagine the schism between old UAW and New UAW!

I am a bit partial to idea that this SHOULD be a field for TEMPORARY WORKERS

In every plant I have been in, for the most part building cars and trucks is VERY HARD AND LABOR INTENSIVE, pushing engines, carrying and installing axles, drive shafts, rotors, etc is TOUGH. Its tough on 20-somethings and 30 somethings. It should be a good paying job, but a CAREER??

And yet the UAW does very little to encourage people to prepare them selves for when their worn out bodies are too torn up for this worker

I think its smarter to take the path the US Army gives the enlisted, the very most you can expect is a 20 year hitch, That's more realistic, no one should hire in as a TPT at 35 or older, yet the UAW continues to thrive on making 40 and 50 year old people beleive they can ask from their bodies the same intense work they did when they were in ther 20's

As far as job security and better working conditions that the UAW can provide, its pretty easy to see that the UAW plants have no real advantage over the non-organized. People get hurt in UAW plants too, lots of UAW plants have closed or will close soon

IMO the UAW is more threatening at the end of the driveway than the idea of bringing them in to a transplant

and WHY THE UAW??

the CAW or the Teamsters or IBEW could probably do just as good a job (or better) representing this work force, the UAW can continue to organize teachers and casino workers

CAW vs UAW - who closed more plants in the last 5 years??

I am totally convinced Toyota or Honda would use UAW pattern bargining to raise wages to the point theat Ford and GM could NOT keep up - HOw you think Hudson, Packard, and Studebaker got ran into the ground??

[Monkeywrentch]

Monkey,

 

Good points, but you are talking apples and oranges kind of. You see, it is unimportant if they get that seal approval of American from a union standpoint. From Ford and GMs perspective, maybe. And yet, Ford and GMs whine has always been that they have an advantage, so their solution is to take from you.

 

I am not an economist, nor am I an accountant, but logic says that if parity becomes reality, Ford and GM MUST quit pointing at us as a smoke screen, and start pointing the finger at themselves.

 

The unions main objective SHOULD be to take the discussion of our compensation out of the mix as far as a reason, and unionizing the competition making them equal in every respect would do that. In other words---------->if they have a point and IT is part of the reason, it goes away. If it is NOT a large part of the reason, so what, it goes away too.

 

My main concern for UAW workers and retirees is------------>that YOU quit getting blamed for the problems. A parity agreement of any kind solves that problem right now. Not to mention, it also protects their workers from their companys greed.

 

I contend that if played correctly, it could be a win, win, for everyone in the industry........as far as the bluecollar workforces are concerned.

 

That is what we must be concerned about!!!!!! All the noise about union being the problem will change to what we can do UNDER the agreement to help Ford and GM. That is far better than being told to CHANGE THE AGREEMENT to help them, don't you think!?!?!?!?!?!

IMA-I do agree, you have a very relevant way of viewing things and I do tend to compare apples and oranges becuase I over analyze things especially when I can't figure them out.I just see the UAW as The Wyle Coyote and the transplants as the Roadrunner.What's gonna happen when he catches him?

[Imawhosure]

This is FUN!!

Phase 1: organize Transplants

Phase 3: Heaven on Earth

with every new opinion on what organized transplants would mean, it shows me how much organizing the transplants won't change what it means to a Ford or GM worker

Imagine the schism between old UAW and New UAW!

I am a bit partial to idea that this SHOULD be a field for TEMPORARY WORKERS

In every plant I have been in, for the most part building cars and trucks is VERY HARD AND LABOR INTENSIVE, pushing engines, carrying and installing axles, drive shafts, rotors, etc is TOUGH. Its tough on 20-somethings and 30 somethings. It should be a good paying job, but a CAREER??

And yet the UAW does very little to encourage people to prepare them selves for when their worn out bodies are too torn up for this worker

I think its smarter to take the path the US Army gives the enlisted, the very most you can expect is a 20 year hitch, That's more realistic, no one should hire in as a TPT at 35 or older, yet the UAW continues to thrive on making 40 and 50 year old people beleive they can ask from their bodies the same intense work they did when they were in ther 20's

As far as job security and better working conditions that the UAW can provide, its pretty easy to see that the UAW plants have no real advantage over the non-organized. People get hurt in UAW plants too, lots of UAW plants have closed or will close soon

IMO the UAW is more threatening at the end of the driveway than the idea of bringing them in to a transplant

and WHY THE UAW??

the CAW or the Teamsters or IBEW could probably do just as good a job (or better) representing this work force, the UAW can continue to organize teachers and casino workers

CAW vs UAW - who closed more plants in the last 5 years??

I am totally convinced Toyota or Honda would use UAW pattern bargining to raise wages to the point theat Ford and GM could NOT keep up - HOw you think Hudson, Packard, and Studebaker got ran into the ground??

 

Harry, cmon, I know you are kidding right?!?!?!?!?!

 

Are you suggesting that the transplants who have consistently tried to keep unions out for their own gain against their workers, now shift gears and want them in to collapse the competition?

 

Harry, Harry, you are absolutely a pessimist.

 

Your idea would never work because of 2 things at least----------->Fords Mexican plants, and Korea......not to mention very soon, China.

 

You are grasping at straws in an attempt to disuade these people that it is a good thing to have everyone under a union umbrella.

 

Why I do not know. Your logic is no logic at all from my view, but if you can sharpen the reasons why into coherency, we may yet be convinced.

 

Carry on explaining your position please.

[uRfk9AcDfo9Wui]

You guys are not thinking out of the box, that is for sure. I am amazed how shortsighted some of you seem to be.

 

Do not think for an instant that I do not think the UAW could screw the pooch if they get them on board, but when you have a blank piece of paper on a table on which to write a contract, and YOUR job as a union is supposedly to protect ALL autoworkers, the possibilitys are endless on how to do it when dealing with the 100 pd gorilla known as Toyota.

 

While many of you dislike the way Bluecon, myself, FMCCAP, and even Trimdingman think, I am sure we could devise an ARTICLE inside their contract to help Ford, GM, and Chrysler workers without seeming to point it in that direction to make it palatable.

 

For instance--------->Since marketshare dictates the safety of the retirement(sub fund, insurance fund, gen pool fund, and any other kind of fund) fund for autoworkers at each company, the company will now no longer pay per head working, but pay by unit sold. Of course it would be put into legaleeze. That would mean many of the benefits would be provided by the company selling the most cars, or at least help prop up the funds for ALL workers.

 

It is a blank sheet of paper fellas, I am sure you could devise similar plans to move money between autoworkers of different companys if ya thought hard enough, thus alleviating some of the financial burden on the companys struggling.

 

And do not think there is NOT justification for this kind of movement of monies. When car companys went on strike before, money at times was withdrawn from other companys strike funds or directly from the workers at other companys, to help prop up the strike.

 

If the UAW can pull this off, and if they play it correctly, it will help all unionized autoworkers in this country, including theirs.

 

Once more, IF they become union, you would have VIRTUALLY EVERY autoworker in this country putting pressure on our government to stop imports of Chinese vehicles, Korean vehicles, etc, or at least tax them on the way in. Not to mention, the rest of the smaller transplant companys would begin to fall like a house of cards towards unionism.

 

I contend if you look at the big picture, there is much more to like about them joining, then to dislike about it............if you can think out of the box!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Imawhosure

 

Dude I’m with you on most things. I love your way of thinking and the ideas you have. Hell I wish you were the UAW President & the President of the country you have some GREAT ideas. But you’re living in a fantasy land. The things that you would like to do are so far out of the box the status quo people will never let it happen. It would mean too much change and people don’t like that. That includes the UAW and our current government. You would basically need to wipe the slate clean in both places and it’s not going to happen, sorry. I’ve seen it happen time and time again, in government and the UAW. You get a guy with fresh new ideas he runs his campaign with those fresh ideas the people like it, they elect him, he goes into office and gets shut down by the status quo people already in the government or UAW. If he tries to fight them he’s an outcast and then he can’t even blow his nose without controversy. You either play ball with them or they’ll screw you one way or the other. Our local 919 was NOTORIOUS for this, most of the time they would counter the people running they didn’t wanted elected the whole way thru the election and if they got elected, well hell they would just demand a recount run the counters on the machines up for the other guy they wanted, and bingo the guy didn’t make, so it’s a NO WIN situation. GO WITH THE FLOW or get pitched over board!! Sorry CHARLIE, we’re screwed!!! You need a revolution or a massive uprising and it’s not going to happen. Too many people are BRAINWASHED and think everything is going great, I’ mean look at the people that think George Bush is doing a good job. I’d love to see MASSIVE change in our government and the UAW but IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Both of them are running their selves in the ground at FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!

[uRfk9AcDfo9Wui]

30% of Toyota's employees work for Toyota. The other 70% = temps.

 

 

Could you provide a link to this information please???

[Imawhosure]

Imawhosure

 

Dude I’m with you on most things. I love your way of thinking and the ideas you have. Hell I wish you were the UAW President & the President of the country you have some GREAT ideas. But you’re living in a fantasy land. The things that you would like to do are so far out of the box the status quo people will never let it happen. It would mean too much change and people don’t like that. That includes the UAW and our current government. You would basically need to wipe the slate clean in both places and it’s not going to happen, sorry. I’ve seen it happen time and time again, in government and the UAW. You get a guy with fresh new ideas he runs his campaign with those fresh ideas the people like it, they elect him, he goes into office and gets shut down by the status quo people already in the government or UAW. If he tries to fight them he’s an outcast and then he can’t even blow his nose without controversy. You either play ball with them or they’ll screw you one way or the other. Our local 919 was NOTORIOUS for this, most of the time they would counter the people running they didn’t wanted elected the whole way thru the election and if they got elected, well hell they would just demand a recount run the counters on the machines up for the other guy they wanted, and bingo the guy didn’t make, so it’s a NO WIN situation. GO WITH THE FLOW or get pitched over board!! Sorry CHARLIE, we’re screwed!!! You need a revolution or a massive uprising and it’s not going to happen. Too many people are BRAINWASHED and think everything is going great, I’ mean look at the people that think George Bush is doing a good job. I’d love to see MASSIVE change in our government and the UAW but IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Both of them are running their selves in the ground at FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!

 

While I tend to agree with your take on the situation, it is also apparent the status quo is not working to anyones benefit except the coffures of Toyota; which does not mean its bluecollar workforce.

 

Their unionization is the next logical step for all bluecollar autoworkers to have more security.

 

I have no reason to debate your point that the UAW will somehow screw it up, but I must say that an opportunity to get an advantage for all autoworkers, is better than no chance at all by avoiding this scenario.

 

I have never been a huge fan of organized labor due to their draconian ways. That being said, I am less of a fan of how the employers work without any shackles on what they can do to employees. Many will try to convince you that unions are no longer needed, I disagree...........somewhat.

 

In their current form, I agree they are not needed as they are just as bad as the companys they portend to stand up to, which is probably why they are having such a hard time recruiting. But, if they change gears and clean their acts up some, I have a strong feeling there would be a resurgance in membership given the conditions we find ourselves in.

 

Toyota and Wal-Mart will be test cases for this. Watch!!!!!! Win both and the tide might turn. Lose and its Katie Bar the door. So far, Wal Mart seems to be losing in public opinion as their practices and earnings are being aired in public. The process is slow, but whomever has brought siege to their practices has used a highly intelligent approach, and that is one organization I would like to meet the planning committee of.

 

With their logical approach, they have at least slightly changed perception of Wally World, which tells me that they are far from dumb. If it can happen to Wally, it can happen to Toyoty. If I was the UAW, I would be knocking on their planners doors to see how they did it, and employ the same strategy.........yesterday!

Edited April 8, 2007 by Imawhosure

[Hard Driver]

What really would the UAW do to/for Toyota

?

 

Unions represent employees not "the company"

[Monkeywrentch]

?

 

Unions represent employees not "the company"

Yeah right when it suits them to do so.

[Grey Goose]

Another really good point the variables of this scienario seem to be endless.But back to my question If Unionized would the Transplants get the made in the USA stamp of approval.Not that im looking for justification before anyone reads anything into my post I have 2 well built Fords in my driveway.For years thats all Ive heard BUY American,BUY American.They are built in America by American hands.Alot of the parts are built in America by Americans.Call the workers what you want Scabs,bottom feeders,fools whatever.A large portion of them woulnt know a collective bargaining agreement if it were put before them.They want a check like anyone else And I believe it was a certain Peanut Farmer from the Plains of Georgia that convinced The Japanese it would be a win win situatoin for them to set up shop here.I dont fault the worker.I fault the past arrogance of the Big 3 and the UAW.Maby just maby its time for a new stratagy.

Sorry but i would argue that the phrase " They want a check like anyone else" misses the point. Everyone wants a bloody check afterall. But my point is yes they are scabs and bottom feeders, skillfull one's I'll admit simply because THEY HAVE REPEATEDLY REJECTED THE UAW WHILE DIRECTLY PROFITING FROM UAW'S EFFORTS.

Now where I come from...thats cowardly bullshit period. Thats getting a free ride because as the recently leaked Toyota company document clearly showed...now that the UAW is on it's collective heels fighting against an almost inconceivable set of obstacles, Toyota seems to think it "prudent" to start paying wages commesurate with the local economy, and since those plants are often in BUMFUCK USA...those comparable wages are of course CONSIDERABLY LOWER THEN WHAT THEY'RE MAKING NOW!

It's laughable and completely predictable at the same time. For years I have said that when the UAW is busted...watch how fast those Japanese uhummm...."Associates" I believe they like to call themselves, stick a slimy Japanese dick up their collective asses.

Now all that said yes my logical side agrees. It makes sense to have as many UAW members as possible from as many Companies as possible especially Toyota since talk about your proverbial 900 lb gorilla in the room....but then......then.......well then the fucking hillbilly in me comes out and I JUST WANT TO SAY FUCK 'EM AND THE RAT BASTARDS THEY WORK FOR. :happy feet:

 

Just this hillbillies opinion

[Grey Goose]

You guys are not thinking out of the box, that is for sure. I am amazed how shortsighted some of you seem to be.

 

Do not think for an instant that I do not think the UAW could screw the pooch if they get them on board, but when you have a blank piece of paper on a table on which to write a contract, and YOUR job as a union is supposedly to protect ALL autoworkers, the possibilitys are endless on how to do it when dealing with the 100 pd gorilla known as Toyota.

 

While many of you dislike the way Bluecon, myself, FMCCAP, and even Trimdingman think, I am sure we could devise an ARTICLE inside their contract to help Ford, GM, and Chrysler workers without seeming to point it in that direction to make it palatable.

 

For instance--------->Since marketshare dictates the safety of the retirement(sub fund, insurance fund, gen pool fund, and any other kind of fund) fund for autoworkers at each company, the company will now no longer pay per head working, but pay by unit sold. Of course it would be put into legaleeze. That would mean many of the benefits would be provided by the company selling the most cars, or at least help prop up the funds for ALL workers.

 

It is a blank sheet of paper fellas, I am sure you could devise similar plans to move money between autoworkers of different companys if ya thought hard enough, thus alleviating some of the financial burden on the companys struggling.

 

And do not think there is NOT justification for this kind of movement of monies. When car companys went on strike before, money at times was withdrawn from other companys strike funds or directly from the workers at other companys, to help prop up the strike.

 

If the UAW can pull this off, and if they play it correctly, it will help all unionized autoworkers in this country, including theirs.

 

Once more, IF they become union, you would have VIRTUALLY EVERY autoworker in this country putting pressure on our government to stop imports of Chinese vehicles, Korean vehicles, etc, or at least tax them on the way in. Not to mention, the rest of the smaller transplant companys would begin to fall like a house of cards towards unionism.

 

I contend if you look at the big picture, there is much more to like about them joining, then to dislike about it............if you can think out of the box!!!!!!!!!!

Of course you bring up some interesting points my friend. The synergies of organizing Toyota and other transplants are obviously huge. But ...and it is a VERY BIG BUT here.....those synergies pull BOTH ways and not neccessarily always upward.

I mean I understand the concept of "The enemy of my enemy is therefor my friend"....... but it's simply not always true and most times only true in the very short term if at all. So personally I'm a little leary of it, yet willing to listen ...well maybe.

As for your somewhat condecending comment about our ability to "Think out of the box" .....well what I've found in my 15 years at Ford.....is that usually when the company presents me with that "box" you like to talk about .....well usually whats in it is.... A BIG FUCKING DILDO THAT SOME COMPANY FUCKTARD WANTS TO STICK UP MY ASS !

So please...indulge me if I'm a little skittish about boxes huh ?

[Imawhosure]

Of course you bring up some interesting points my friend. The synergies of organizing Toyota and other transplants are obviously huge. But ...and it is a VERY BIG BUT here.....those synergies pull BOTH ways and not neccessarily always upward.

I mean I understand the concept of "The enemy of my enemy is therefor my friend"....... but it's simply not always true and most times only true in the very short term if at all. So personally I'm a little leary of it, yet willing to listen ...well maybe.

As for your somewhat condecending comment about our ability to "Think out of the box" .....well what I've found in my 15 years at Ford.....is that usually when the company presents me with that "box" you like to talk about .....well usually whats in it is.... A BIG FUCKING DILDO THAT SOME COMPANY FUCKTARD WANTS TO STICK UP MY ASS !

So please...indulge me if I'm a little skittish about boxes huh ?

 

Ahh Grey, lol, you have a point.

 

But then again--------->Do you know who was the last of the big 3 to become unionized? I believe that was Ford. I remember reading long ago how Harry Bennett had some of the union hierarchy dragged down stairs, beat to a pulp, and basically threatened with the execution of their first born if they didn't go away.

 

Uncle Henry no lika dat union shit!!!!!

 

The point is, the union knew back then as now (if they are intelligent anyway) that you can't get anywhere for your members if one or more of the major players in the industry does not have your workforce. It is simple economics.

 

Just like MOST OF YOU, I would rather defeat their asses then have them in bed with me, but the reality is YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE BIG PAY CUTS and BENEFIT cuts to compete, assuming Ford designs great vehicles.

 

Is that worth it? If so, then demand a huge cut in pay from Ford!!!!! Of course, we already know that Toyoty is not union, so Toyoty management will just march in there and tell their Japanese Associates that they are taking the same cut.......plus one cent to widen the gap.

 

To me, that is illogical from a thinking point of view. My heart says, lets kill em anyway we can; my mind says, I don't want to take that much pain without a gaurantee of victory. If there really is safety in numbers, than this is the way to go.

 

Let me also say this as an opinion, but probably a pretty accurate guess-------------->suppose that our Japanese friends quality was never any better than ours!!!!! What kinda shape would we be in today?

 

ANSWER: Just as bad!!!!

 

Why?-------->Because their huge profits show without a doubt, they can lower their vehicles prices substantially if need be. The only reason they are as high as they are is; because they are in demand.

 

In other words------->if we were competing head to head in every category bar none, they would still have a huge advantage because they could lower the price to where it became attractive to purchase their vehicles, ala the Korean jobs, but a little higher than them.

 

If you want a fair shake, YOU HAVE TO HOPE THE UAW CAN STOP THIS. The last thing YOU as a Ford worker need is-------->to have Ford design great vehicles, you build them just as well as the Georgetown (or anyone else for that matter) does, and you still go into the dumpster cause they laugh as they cut their price so low, you still can't sell em at a profit as they can demand THEIR workers take an instant cut in pay to put you out of business.

 

I sincerely hope you consider what I have said. We all know business is cut throat. Everyone should imagine just for a minute that Ford has now designed great vehicles, the quality is superb, and you are head of TOYOTY without a unionized workforce.

 

What would YOU DO to cut the legs out from Ford??????? Ya see, it is logical, isn't it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Imawhosure]

double post, sorry

Edited April 13, 2007 by Imawhosure

[Harry Bennet]

Harry, cmon, I know you are kidding right?!?!?!?!?!

 

Are you suggesting that the transplants who have consistently tried to keep unions out for their own gain against their workers, now shift gears and want them in to collapse the competition?

 

Harry, Harry, you are absolutely a pessimist.

 

Your idea would never work because of 2 things at least----------->Fords Mexican plants, and Korea......not to mention very soon, China.

 

You are grasping at straws in an attempt to disuade these people that it is a good thing to have everyone under a union umbrella.

 

Why I do not know. Your logic is no logic at all from my view, but if you can sharpen the reasons why into coherency, we may yet be convinced.

 

Carry on explaining your position please.

 

i guess my sarcasm did not come across

My point about the employees at the transplants is this, 'what can the UAW get for them that they don't already have now?'

job security -- maybe

this UAW is not so good at securing jobs, ask Wixom, TCAP, NAP, Batavia

and putting together cars or engines - trim stock to car, packing pistons, building valve bodies, etc is JOB, not a CAREER- some unions help their people build careers but not the UAW

When you have a career, you have a skill set that can be shopped around to different employers, in the same industry and even into other industries

Ain't no company in southeast VA looking people to put axles on frames or load body sides into welding fixtures after NAP closes---AND the UAW is doing very little to nothing to prepare their people for jobs/careers after that plant closes

so why would the associates at Toyota or Honda need the kind of union the UAW is?

[Grey Goose]

Ahh Grey, lol, you have a point.

 

But then again--------->Do you know who was the last of the big 3 to become unionized? I believe that was Ford. I remember reading long ago how Harry Bennett had some of the union hierarchy dragged down stairs, beat to a pulp, and basically threatened with the execution of their first born if they didn't go away.

 

Uncle Henry no lika dat union shit!!!!!

 

The point is, the union knew back then as now (if they are intelligent anyway) that you can't get anywhere for your members if one or more of the major players in the industry does not have your workforce. It is simple economics.

 

Just like MOST OF YOU, I would rather defeat their asses then have them in bed with me, but the reality is YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE BIG PAY CUTS and BENEFIT cuts to compete, assuming Ford designs great vehicles.

 

Is that worth it? If so, then demand a huge cut in pay from Ford!!!!! Of course, we already know that Toyoty is not union, so Toyoty management will just march in there and tell their Japanese Associates that they are taking the same cut.......plus one cent to widen the gap.

 

To me, that is illogical from a thinking point of view. My heart says, lets kill em anyway we can; my mind says, I don't want to take that much pain without a gaurantee of victory. If there really is safety in numbers, than this is the way to go.

 

Let me also say this as an opinion, but probably a pretty accurate guess-------------->suppose that our Japanese friends quality was never any better than ours!!!!! What kinda shape would we be in today?

 

ANSWER: Just as bad!!!!

 

Why?-------->Because their huge profits show without a doubt, they can lower their vehicles prices substantially if need be. The only reason they are as high as they are is; because they are in demand.

 

In other words------->if we were competing head to head in every category bar none, they would still have a huge advantage because they could lower the price to where it became attractive to purchase their vehicles, ala the Korean jobs, but a little higher than them.

 

If you want a fair shake, YOU HAVE TO HOPE THE UAW CAN STOP THIS. The last thing YOU as a Ford worker need is-------->to have Ford design great vehicles, you build them just as well as the Georgetown (or anyone else for that matter) does, and you still go into the dumpster cause they laugh as they cut their price so low, you still can't sell em at a profit as they can demand THEIR workers take an instant cut in pay to put you out of business.

 

I sincerely hope you consider what I have said. We all know business is cut throat. Everyone should imagine just for a minute that Ford has now designed great vehicles, the quality is superb, and you are head of TOYOTY without a unionized workforce.

 

What would YOU DO to cut the legs out from Ford??????? Ya see, it is logical, isn't it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You bet "business is cut throat " whosure that's exactly why we NEED a union and why the smug assholes on Fox News ( I use that word "News" VERY loosely here ) hate unions so much while they oh so smugly wax philosopic on their business shows about the stock market and what a drag unions are to the bottom lines.

Mind You they BOUGHT those fucking GEN X and Y educations with their daddies UNION BARGAINED WAGES but hey....details details huh?

Look the world as a whole is faced with a basic question here. Is the wealth going to go to the upper class only and destroy the middle class fought for by unions after WW2 by not addressing the fact that NO ONE can compete with dirt cheap labor in formerly third world countries period. It's not only in this country but in the industrialized world as a whole and Europe in particular. They are having even bigger problems than us with their welfare states and expensive labor costs. So the basic question is....does the US ans European working class REGRESS to third world labor practices as is happening now with NAFTA and the like, or is the idea to bring the rest of the world up to OUR labor standards. To do that is going to take BOTH UNIONS AND GOVERNMENTS working TOGETHER or we're gonna loose no way around it.

Unfortunately right now I need to quote the late great John Lennon who once said "I'VE GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!!!!!!!!" and close this before I finish .Have a good one brother...

The above was just this hillbillies opinion :happy feet: