Rob052067 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Dear Ford, Please explain why there is no E85 FFV engine option available on the 2008 Expedition. Both the F150 and the Expedition use the same 5.4L V8 engine, but only the F150 currently has an optional E85 FFV option. It seems like a no-brainer to me to make the FFV verision standard or at least optional on the Expedition as well. I'm a big & tall man. I want a big & roomy vehicle and the Expedition fits that bill. However, with all the unknowns concerning future gas prices and availability, it sure would be nice to have the E85 option to fall back on, if needed - not to mention the benefits of more environmentally friendly emissions when running on E85. Please add the E85 FFV engine option to the Expedition as soon as possible - preferably early in the 2008 model year. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 You do understand that an E85 Expedition would only get 11.5 mpg using the 2008 mileage estimates (compared to 14 mpg for gasoline), right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 You do understand that an E85 Expedition would only get 11.5 mpg using the 2008 mileage estimates (compared to 14 mpg for gasoline), right? AND from what I understand there is little to no cost advantage....but it HAS driven up the price of milk....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 You do understand that an E85 Expedition would only get 11.5 mpg using the 2008 mileage estimates (compared to 14 mpg for gasoline), right? Yes. But the price of E85 is usually around 25-35 cents less per gallon than regular gas (doesn't quite make up the difference, but it helps). Currently, there are fewer than a dozen stations with E85 in the Columbus area, but it's increasing all the time. And, as more E85 plants come online; as corn harvests increase; and as E85 production efficiency improves, the price advantage over gas should improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 as corn harvests increase .....the price of corn and corn products goes through the roof! TANSTAAFL! Corn based Ethanol production is not viable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 .....the price of corn and corn products goes through the roof! TANSTAAFL!Corn based Ethanol production is not viable! No single alternative fuel option is going to reduce or eliminate the need for petroleum. Diversity is key. In addition to E85, we'll need to embrace diesel engines capable of using BioDiesel fuels and Plug-In Electric-Hybrids, among others. However, E85 is a perfectly viable fuel and it's available now - not decades in the future like Hydrogen. There's still plenty of land available in N. America to farm on to increase corn production. This year's corn harvest is expected to be nearly 20% higher than 2006. Corn prices have been low for years and many farmers were paid by the government not to grow corn to keep prices stable. Demand for E85 will improve farmers income and encourage more corn planting, while also eliminating the need for government (taxpayer) subsidies for corn growers and non-growers. Due to the low price of corn during the past 20 years, US manufacturers have embraced the use of High Fructose Corn Syrup as a sweetener in practically everything (which I believe has had several negative effects on American's health and fitness). Sugar has been another subsidized crop to keep prices stable. If we use less corn for sweeteners, there'll be more available for E85 production. And, then we can end sugar subsidies since the demand for beet sugar will increase. Finally, let's not forget that E85 can be produced from more plant sources than just corn. America is already importing ethanol made from sugar cane in Brazil - a country that is nearly fully independent from petroleum imports due to that country's foresight and creation of a real energy plan after the 1970's oil embargoes. I for one embrace the idea of reducing our need for foreign oil and consider our addiction to middle east oil a serious threat to our national security. I think getting approx. 20% fewer miles out of a gallon of E85 versus gasoline, while at the same time only saving approx. 10% versus the cost of a gallon of gasoline, is a small price to pay to drive a vehicle that consumes far less petroleum and produces far fewer toxic emissions. http://www.e85fuel.com/ http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36875 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 News on the ethanol front: Michigan chosen for first commercial ethanol plant to use wood and other plant fibers. "The Mascoma Corp. plant will be built somewhere in northern Michigan and use trees and wood waste products to create a vehicle fuel that is cleaner and uses less energy to make than corn ethanol, said Mascoma CEO Bruce Jamerson." ... "Department of Natural Resources officials said Michigan’s forests are well-managed and can be harvested and replanted for ethanol production without denuding the landscape. Jamerson said a cord of wood – about 5,000 pounds – can yield 150 gallons of ethanol. He said ethanol fuel made from cellulose produces one-tenth the amount of carbon dioxide as corn-based ethanol, and that it requires far less energy to produce because it uses enzymes rather than chemicals and heat to break down the material into ethanol." ... http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...NESS06/70719025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I agree...get an E85 Expedition into production soon Ford and with E85 emblems on rear end door. GM offers this on their full sized truck line. Why shouldn't Ford. More and more stations are offering E85 and Ford was the one touting it more than any other. Expand the line Ford. I wish my Taurus had E85 capability just for the added flexibility if shortages of gas came about like in late 70's. A couple years ago Ford talked real loud about more hybrids and E85 vehicles and now silence. I get tired of that strategy. Follow through Ford and keep talking about it. You need a long term plan and you need to stay focused on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
controller Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I know I'm derailing the subject, but since we're talking about '08s; why doesn't Ford do the power retracting rear window anymore, I think it's a pretty cool feature to have and convenient. Think they should make an FX4 Expy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 (edited) If anyone from Ford management reads this post, please confirm. It would be nice to know that someone is listening. I drove another Expedition over the weekend. It's a great vehicle. Very comfortable and has a great ride. I'm tentatively planning on ordering one in January 08, and I sure would feel better and more confident about buying/leasing an Expedition if it came with a FFV E85 engine option. PS: Does anyone have an email address to write directly to the office of Ford CEO Alan Mulally? Edited July 23, 2007 by Rob052067 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 I know I'm derailing the subject, but since we're talking about '08s; why doesn't Ford do the power retracting rear window anymore, I think it's a pretty cool feature to have and convenient. Think they should make an FX4 Expy? I don't recall any recent vehicles that had power retracting rear windows. Older station wagons and some SUV's had them, but as I recall they came with warnings about driving with the window down resulting in exhaust being sucked into the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I know I'm derailing the subject, but since we're talking about '08s; why doesn't Ford do the power retracting rear window anymore, I think it's a pretty cool feature to have and convenient. Think they should make an FX4 Expy? They did for a while, the 03-06 body style (I don't know what year exactly). I just saw one the other day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I don't recall any recent vehicles that had power retracting rear windows. Older station wagons and some SUV's had them, but as I recall they came with warnings about driving with the window down resulting in exhaust being sucked into the vehicle. Do you mean a power retracting rear window like the old Bronco's had? If so, i believe that the Toyota 4Runner, maybe the Sequoia too have one, I'm not sure though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob052067 Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 I contacted a couple of Detroit newspaper automotive columnists about my FFV questions. One of them forwarded my email to a friend of theirs that works for Ford in 'Technology and Powertrain Communications'. Below is his reply: "I appreciate your comment regarding adding FFV capability to the Expedition. We are planning on rapidly expanding our offerings of FFVs. Unfortunately, there is quite a bit more work involved than it may seem, since this requires a new powertrain software calibration, some new parts and testing of the vehicles' fuel system as well as a new emissions certification program,..." I guess if there's still no FFV option available in Jan. 08 when I'm ready to place an order, I'll have to decide then if I want to go forward with a gas-only engine or wait a while longer and instead buy a cheap used vehicle to tide me over til the Expy is FFV ready. :mellow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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