UAW

[jam116]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I really don't care!

The UAW has killed the American Auto Industry.

I think Unions Leaders are nothing but a bunch of crooks...

 

I never have or never will need another man to negotiate my wage or benefits!

 

I did fine and retired at 40...

 

Go ahead I have broad shoulders so jump on....Cause I know you die hard Union Guy's will claim all companies management are out to screw you....If you threw the Unions out you would have better benefits and allot of you would still have jobs!..

 

I have seen Union Folks say "That's not my job" or "I'll file a complaint with my Union Rep"...

 

Guess I'm an old timer in thought...If you are going to take a man's money then do the job he ask you to do.....

Edited August 26, 2007 by jam116

[Xtremesynthetic]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I really don't care!

The UAW has killed the American Auto Industry.

I think Unions Leaders are nothing but a bunch of crooks...

 

I never have or never will need another man to negotiate my wage or benefits!

 

I did fine and retired at 40...

 

Go ahead I have broad shoulders so jump on....Cause I know you die hard Union Guy's will claim all companies management are out to screw you....If you threw the Unions out you would have better benefits and allot of you would still have jobs!..

 

I have seen Union Folks say "That's not my job" or "I'll file a complaint with my Union Rep"...

 

Guess I'm an old timer in thought...If you are going to take a man's money then do the job he ask you to do.....

 

 

I believe the union to be a good thing. Do I agree with everything they believe in, no. I do believe they keep a watchfull eye over what the management does on a daily basis.

I also believe that the worker would not have the wages and benefits they do if it wasn't for our union. Also, before you say the union person is over paid, please tell me management isn't. Big pay and bonuses for all the long days they put in, come on now!! We all on both sides of the fence make a good wage and have good beefits. I have a novel idea, lets stop the b.s. and really work together to turn this industry around. You do nothing for the industry when you look for people or sides to place blame. Their are alot of ways to save money, make money and be inventive, so that we can make ford a company to recon with in the future.

So, lets please stop the blame game and work as a team. We can come out on top if we don't divide.

[Furious1Auto]

I believe the union to be a good thing. Do I agree with everything they believe in, no. I do believe they keep a watchfull eye over what the management does on a daily basis.

I also believe that the worker would not have the wages and benefits they do if it wasn't for our union. Also, before you say the union person is over paid, please tell me management isn't. Big pay and bonuses for all the long days they put in, come on now!! We all on both sides of the fence make a good wage and have good beefits. I have a novel idea, lets stop the b.s. and really work together to turn this industry around. You do nothing for the industry when you look for people or sides to place blame. Their are alot of ways to save money, make money and be inventive, so that we can make ford a company to recon with in the future.

So, lets please stop the blame game and work as a team. We can come out on top if we don't divide.

Exactly although their are problems within our union, without it we could not get fair compensation! Ultimately what the company becomes is totally up to us! We must out pace Toyota's quality and sustain it!

Edited September 17, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Bored of Pisteon]

I know this will ruffle feathers but I really don't care!

The UAW has killed the American Auto Industry.

I think Unions Leaders are nothing but a bunch of crooks...

 

I never have or never will need another man to negotiate my wage or benefits!

 

I did fine and retired at 40...

 

Go ahead I have broad shoulders so jump on....Cause I know you die hard Union Guy's will claim all companies management are out to screw you....If you threw the Unions out you would have better benefits and allot of you would still have jobs!..

 

I have seen Union Folks say "That's not my job" or "I'll file a complaint with my Union Rep"...

 

Guess I'm an old timer in thought...If you are going to take a man's money then do the job he ask you to do.....

 

It really doesn't matter who you preach it to... Some people are smart enough (me) to see right through their bullshit to begin with. I mean... THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE PAYED BY THE COMPANY RIGHT? :poke:

[jam116]

I believe the union to be a good thing. Do I agree with everything they believe in, no. I do believe they keep a watchfull eye over what the management does on a daily basis.

I also believe that the worker would not have the wages and benefits they do if it wasn't for our union. Also, before you say the union person is over paid, please tell me management isn't. Big pay and bonuses for all the long days they put in, come on now!! We all on both sides of the fence make a good wage and have good beefits. I have a novel idea, lets stop the b.s. and really work together to turn this industry around. You do nothing for the industry when you look for people or sides to place blame. Their are alot of ways to save money, make money and be inventive, so that we can make ford a company to recon with in the future.

So, lets please stop the blame game and work as a team. We can come out on top if we don't divide.

 

No I think you deserve all the pay and benefits. I just do not agree with the fact you have to pay someone to represent you. I think in today’s market you as workers have the ability to negotiate for themselves. Now I do feel the Unions had a place and time but I think they have been outdated for some time and they hurt business and it's own members. Is Management over paid? Upper Management in most every company in the US is over paid in my mind...I mean come on who is worth 1.5 Million a year...or in allot of cases more than that... Just like most sports players are over paid. They cannot relate to you and I...They do not understand the issues faced by most people. My only point is that I think the Unions will kill allot of American Industry by being inflexible when a business starts to struggle it is better to make concessions rather than place more financial demands on them. Now don't take that to mean that any business should run over their workers, but I just think you and any company would be better off working together. I think you could negotiate for yourself and not have to pay a Union Rep. to do that for you... Companies have learned over the years they better listen to there workers or it could cost them in more ways than one.... I hope I do not see in my lifetime the failure of Ford, Chevy or Dodge.... With that said I'm a Ford man but do not want to see the greatest industries we ever created crumble!

[ZanatWork]

Lots of companies figure it out...and don't have year after year of analysts showing why they're strangling their chosen industries.

 

I've said it before...if the UAW makes the changes necesary to level the financial playing field, I'm all for it. However, if not, I'd love to see the UAW deserted completely by its former employers and I'll bring the marshmallows for the UAW HQ bonfire.

[terrypm1]

Unions have brought this country this far, you do not need to forget all the good they have done for the country. They have a place in American culture.

[jam116]

Unions have brought this country this far, you do not need to forget all the good they have done for the country. They have a place in American culture.

 

I agree they had a place in America. Now I think they are like Attorneys....A leach!

 

Some say so many people can not negotiate for your self...I know several companies with 10K and over employees and no union. No Union dues to pay.. Why would I need to pay someone to represent me...I'll speak for myself....Unions have killed big steel companies and will do the same to the auto industriey. I hope I never see that but I think it is a reality.

Why do so many jobs go overseas. To keep from dealing with Union's. It amazes me that a person can not see how a Union takes advantage of it's members and companies.

[Furious1Auto]

I agree they had a place in America. Now I think they are like Attorneys....A leach!

 

Some say so many people can not negotiate for your self...I know several companies with 10K and over employees and no union. No Union dues to pay.. Why would I need to pay someone to represent me...I'll speak for myself....Unions have killed big steel companies and will do the same to the auto industriey. I hope I never see that but I think it is a reality.

Why do so many jobs go overseas. To keep from dealing with Union's. It amazes me that a person can not see how a Union takes advantage of it's members and companies.

The unions always are a scapegoat for poor management! There are plenty of right to work states and pointing at the union to justify companies abandoning US soil shows a lack of integrity on your part! Lastly don't try to exploit internal discourse to rally our members behind supporting abandonment. It's one thing to slap us in the face, but it's quit another to expect us to like it! For all that the union is lacking at present, I still see a fair wage for my labor period!

Edited September 17, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[jam116]

The unions always are a scapegoat for poor management! There are plenty of right to work states and pointing at the union to justify companies abandoning US soil shows a lack of integrity on your part! Lastly don't try to exploit internal discourse to rally our members behind supporting abandonment. It's one thing to slap us in the face, but it's quit another to expect us to like it! For all that the union is lacking at present, I still see a fair wage for my labor period!

 

I could care less if your members leave you. I don't expect you to like it...You need to get your Unions to move ahead with the times and stop trying to live in the 60's. Companies are more than willing to pay a fair wage for a fair day's work. As far as a lack of integrity on my part. "Good thing you were not here to say that to my face"! I never have joinned a Union and never will. As stated in post I can speak for myself. I do not need to pay someone to do that. I saw a fair wage for 30 years....NO UNION. Your members need to wake up and see what is happening to there jobs. In several cases you get less benefits with a Union. I've seen proof of that in companies where one area of the country was Union and another was not. The area that was not had the same pay and better Health Insurance....

 

Your mind is made up and that's fine....Don't be so quick to judge a person you have no clue who they are or what they are about....

[wixommm]

To say that unions dont take concessions is wrong. The workers at Chrysler did during thier struggle, so did the pilots at Northwest they took a 60% pay cut and had to double thier air time to boot. The steel workers did take many concessions before the fall. Just as I know of non union people who have taken pay cuts and benefit cuts. I dont see the union demanding anything at this contract with the exception of job security and less plant closings. And even a non union worker would negotiate that job security for themself. And if you look you will see that union membership is up everywhere but automotive. Nurses, service workers such as hotel, casino, resturants. It may not be happening in Michigan but it is happening in other states that workers feel they need to be represented. Even engineers that are salary are union in some companiesl. So dont be so sure that unions are dead or not needed.

[NickF1011]

To say that unions dont take concessions is wrong. The workers at Chrysler did during thier struggle, so did the pilots at Northwest they took a 60% pay cut and had to double thier air time to boot. The steel workers did take many concessions before the fall. Just as I know of non union people who have taken pay cuts and benefit cuts. I dont see the union demanding anything at this contract with the exception of job security and less plant closings. And even a non union worker would negotiate that job security for themself. And if you look you will see that union membership is up everywhere but automotive. Nurses, service workers such as hotel, casino, resturants. It may not be happening in Michigan but it is happening in other states that workers feel they need to be represented. Even engineers that are salary are union in some companiesl. So dont be so sure that unions are dead or not needed.

 

Union membership is down sharply across the board:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...8-2005Mar6.html

 

"In 1953, 36 percent of private-sector workers were union members; today, fewer than 8 percent belong to unions."

 

http://economics.about.com/od/laborinameri...ion_decline.htm

 

"While more than one-third of employed people belonged to unions in 1945, union membership fell to 24.1 percent of the U.S. work force in 1979 and to 13.9 percent in 1998."

 

http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/index.php?...all+(1948-2004)

 

31.8% in 1948 to 12.5% in 2004.

[Furious1Auto]

I could care less if your members leave you. I don't expect you to like it...You need to get your Unions to move ahead with the times and stop trying to live in the 60's. Companies are more than willing to pay a fair wage for a fair day's work. As far as a lack of integrity on my part. "Good thing you were not here to say that to my face"! I never have joinned a Union and never will. As stated in post I can speak for myself. I do not need to pay someone to do that. I saw a fair wage for 30 years....NO UNION. Your members need to wake up and see what is happening to there jobs. In several cases you get less benefits with a Union. I've seen proof of that in companies where one area of the country was Union and another was not. The area that was not had the same pay and better Health Insurance....

 

Your mind is made up and that's fine....Don't be so quick to judge a person you have no clue who they are or what they are about....

And you think you would do what? If you made out so well being non-union than why are you concerned with what we make or how we go about securing it! You sound like your puffing!

[RangerM]

Exactly although their are problems within our union, without it we could not get fair compensation! Ultimately what the company becomes is totally up to us! We must out pace Toyota's quality and sustain it!

 

I applaud your enthusiasm toward out-pacing Toyota, as I will out-work anyone at my company also, but I have a couple of questions.

 

What is fair compensation? How do you define it?

 

Should a worker who produces more than you deserve more pay? even if they have been there less time?

(My philosophy: I only deserve a pay raise when the value of my work is more than my current pay rate. I should not expect a company to give me a raise in the HOPE that I'll live up to my higher pay)

 

Who is the "we" you refer to? Are you saying that everyone who works on the line is exactly the same, and can work at the same level of quality, at the same pace?

 

Are you happy to work harder than your peer and make the same amount of $, or do you just live down to the level of those that can't (or won't) work as hard as you? (I think that by its very nature that an assembly line, like a chain, is only as strong as its weakest link)

 

This is why I can't conceive of having someone represent me. I would prefer that my work quality/quantity speak for itself, and my pay reflect it.

[Furious1Auto]

I applaud your enthusiasm toward out-pacing Toyota, as I will out-work anyone at my company also, but I have a couple of questions.

 

What is fair compensation? How do you define it?

 

Should a worker who produces more than you deserve more pay? even if they have been there less time?

(My philosophy: I only deserve a pay raise when the value of my work is more than my current pay rate. I should not expect a company to give me a raise in the HOPE that I'll live up to my higher pay)

 

Who is the "we" you refer to? Are you saying that everyone who works on the line is exactly the same, and can work at the same level of quality, at the same pace?

 

Are you happy to work harder than your peer and make the same amount of $, or do you just live down to the level of those that can't (or won't) work as hard as you? (I think that by its very nature that an assembly line, like a chain, is only as strong as its weakest link)

 

This is why I can't conceive of having someone represent me. I would prefer that my work quality/quantity speak for itself, and my pay reflect it.

You do have a point, I don't want to carry the lazy or unwhiling, but I prefer to concentrate on my job rather negotiating wages!

[RangerM]

You do have a point, I don't want to carry the lazy or unwhiling, but I prefer to concentrate on my job rather negotiating wages!

 

I understand your anxiety toward asking for a raise. I have never asked for a raise in my (relatively short) life, but fortunately for me, my value was apparent to those with the power to influence.

 

Unfortunately the consequence of taking part in a collective bargaining negotiation, is that the people are judged as a whole (ie the average), which is wholly unfair to those, such as yourself, whose value is above average. Your merits, no matter how numerous, are diluted into the soup of mediocrity.

 

I couldn't do it. I wouldn't be fair to myself if I did, and if I did, the drive to compete and excel may wane as I realize that it does me no good.

Edited September 19, 2007 by RangerM

[jam116]

And you think you would do what? If you made out so well being non-union than why are you concerned with what we make or how we go about securing it! You sound like your puffing!

 

I could care less about your wages...I would just like to see the American Automotive Industry stay viable.If you want to know I live in SC. Let's take this off the board I'll be more than happy to give you an email address.. My Father did not raise me to allow some one to be so arrogant to question my interguity.

[NickF1011]

My Father did not raise me to allow some one to be so arrogant to question my interguity.

 

Can we question your spelling at least?

[Furious1Auto]

Can we question your spelling at least?

Watch it nick, he may want to take you outside and slap you around!

[NickF1011]

Watch it nick, he may want to take you outside and slap you around!

 

Good. It might wake me up. I'm operating on about 2 hours sleep today. :lol: :boring:

[jam116]

Can we question your spelling at least?

 

That you most certainly do as my fingers get faster than my mind....and I forgot to use spell checker....

[suv_guy_19]

That you most certainly do as my fingers get faster than my mind....and I forgot to use spell checker....

 

 

I really hate it, I can't spell to begin with (because there are a few thing I don't know ) and when I don't use firefox it doesn't fix it for me .

[Furious1Auto]

That you most certainly do as my fingers get faster than my mind....and I forgot to use spell checker....

You must type one word a min!

Edited September 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[pdmustgt]

Been there and done that and never again will I work for a union.

 

All unions blame management no matter what all the time. They also look at the company as the enemy but turn around and say union pride. Unions are 2 face kiss ass and stab you in the back. Don't dare say anything bad about another union member seeing the guy screw something up on purpose. They will threaten you by we will take your union card from you (aka no job for you). If the company does something wrong the union we will file a complaint. But when the union worker does something wrong IT'S OK but get pissed if the company calls them on it. The union attitude IT'S NOT MY JOB

 

I've have seen a guys screw a trucks up on purpose because they got caught screwing off. The one that really pissed me off the truck caught on fire causing over 1 million dollars in damage truck,trailers and load. He got punished by 10 days suspension without pay. He file complaint got it reduced to 5 days but the kicker was he did it on purpose. I turned the SOB into company he almost killed the truck driver. But of course the union pulled my membership BUT I'm the bad guy for turning him in I don't want someone like that around me. BUT WHERE'S THE UNION PRIDE THERE. I'm glad I've been alot happier since then and never have looked back. Funny thing that company has closed down reopen under a new name SCREWING all the union guys and they didn't re hire them back

 

 

As far as I'm concerned the big 3 should sue the unions for unfair business practices. Unions had there time on place but it's time to move on. Unions gave me bitter taste I've seen first hand on the things they do and it's not pretty.

[Kimber]

I grew up in a union family so I was always taught the value of the union for workers. I never questioned any of it. Now that I am a union member and I see first hand what happens between workers and management, for instance the favoritism to certain employees, some of the unsafe jobs sups try and force u to do, pay discrepencies, management premise of quantity over quality,the list goes on.. If it wasnt for union support and backup these practices would continue. I have not once needed my union rep., I handle my own issues with management but I am happy they have my back if needed. Unfortunately they are still needed today as much as they were in yesteryear because of the poor management issues within most companies, you always have at least one power hungry dictator. Now on the flip side I can totally understand where some of you are coming from with the fact that the union has protected jobs for some of the sorriest, laziest, most ignorant people who dont deserve to breathe let alone make our wages. Ive agonized over the whys and what-fors quite alot, but that is their job and they dont like it any more than we do. But if they pick and choose who to represent they can and do get sued by these asses, which is why they have to carry certain insurance that covers them in such an instance, and they pay for that out of their own pocket. If you want to play the blame game then blame management for hiring these sheet stains to begin with. Lets face it some people just have no ethics or integrity and that goes for both sides, us and them. As far as my wages, I deserve every penny and then some..I bust my ass everyday at work and I now have back problems for the rest of my life because of the work I do, me and thousands of others so everyone can have that great new car. With the cost of living in the Auto Capital of the World, TRUST ME, I am by no means getting rich, and Ive yet to see a million dollar bonus. You want to speculate on the demise of the auto industry then take a look at upper managements payroll and benefits compared to us "factory rats"!