Toyota unveils 2007 Tundra. Does it have what it takes to beat the F150?

[robertlane]

http://www.blueovalnews.com/index.php?cate...2_articleid=154

[swenson88]

Huh. I don't think anyone has too much to worry about. The interior doesn't look as nice as Ford's current interior, and the exterior isn't very attractive. I think it's a huge step up in the capability department with the new 5.7L V8 and the 10K lb towing capacity, so maybe there's a few out there that wouldn't buy a Titan but would buy a Tundra. That interior's kinda weird. Shifter looks awkward, why all the angles and strange left-right movements just to get the thing in gear??? IP doesn't look very attractive. Really the Tundra doesn't bring anything unique to the market. The 2004 F150 outdoes this truck and I'm sure GM's GMT900's are going to outdo it as well.

[kenp77]

Huh. I don't think anyone has too much to worry about. The interior doesn't look as nice as Ford's current interior, and the exterior isn't very attractive. I think it's a huge step up in the capability department with the new 5.7L V8 and the 10K lb towing capacity, so maybe there's a few out there that wouldn't buy a Titan but would buy a Tundra. That interior's kinda weird. Shifter looks awkward, why all the angles and strange left-right movements just to get the thing in gear??? IP doesn't look very attractive. Really the Tundra doesn't bring anything unique to the market. The 2004 F150 outdoes this truck and I'm sure GM's GMT900's are going to outdo it as well.

Swenson: I agree with you on everything except the power train it is way ahead of ford there but I expect the new silverado will come close to matching it in power and ford may catch up in 3 or 4 yrs???IMO

[RichardJensen]

The thing is wider and taller than the F150; and while it bests the F150 in rated towing for now, it really offers no other compelling incentive to switch. It's not as big as Toyota's earlier press made it sound ('trucks parked next to it will feel like they've entered an eclipse')

 

They've strengthened some weak spots (brakes, interior dimensions), but inexplicably left others (it still uses C shape frames, not boxed section).

 

...

[rc38]

The thing is wider and taller than the F150; and while it bests the F150 in rated towing for now, it really offers no other compelling incentive to switch. It's not as big as Toyota's earlier press made it sound ('trucks parked next to it will feel like they've entered an eclipse')

 

They've strengthened some weak spots (brakes, interior dimensions), but inexplicably left others (it still uses C shape frames, not boxed section).

 

...

 

 

There saying the quad cab is 240" or 20'. The excursion was 19',do you think the seirra club will do a full out assualt on this new truck.

[KWMJ-KTP]

I was expecting a lot more. Styling is unimpressive inside and out, but at least the mechaincals sound like they are up to par. Considering that the F-150 is and has been at 9,900 lbs. towing capacity for 3 years now, and similarly, Titan has been at 9,500 lbs., 10,000 is not that impressive, although it will be a nice milestone to claim to have. I would not be surprised if Ford does not revise their tow ratings on 9,900 lbs model to 10,000, just to say we did it first.

 

I'm not sure too many serious truck buyers will give anymore consideration than they are given to the Nissan Titan. Most people who buy a F-150, Silverado 1500, Dodge Ram 1500 or Nissan Titan do so because they do not need to and never plan to tow 10,000 lbs. At least with the former Big 3, we still have another whole truck line beyond the 10,000 lbs. realm.

 

I checked real quick, and for $25,135 minus $2500 rebate, totaling $22,635, which assumes that you don't have A-Plan or X-Plan in additon to that, you can get a basic F-250 Super Duty 4x2 with the 5.4L V8 & automatic transmission capable of towing 12,100 lbs. And still under $30,000, you could have one with the Dual Rear Wheels, V-10 and 4x4 that can tow 15,000 lbs, and I am sure the story is probably similar over at GM & Dodge too. So those serious about towing 10,000 lbs. or more will not even think of this new Tundra, at least for now.

 

If the rumors of an even bigger V8 and a V8 Diesel are true in upcoming years, the issue could be quite different then.

[foxrun]

There saying the quad cab is 240" or 20'. The excursion was 19',do you think the seirra club will do a full out assualt on this new truck.

no chance

 

It aint not F-150 but it aint no ridgeline either. Still don't think Ford needs to worry.

[one2gamble]

doesnt appear any better than the titan in all honesty and that pretty much landed with a thud.

 

I predict marketshare remains flat in the fullsize truck market for toy

[swenson88]

Swenson: I agree with you on everything except the power train it is way ahead of ford there but I expect the new silverado will come close to matching it in power and ford may catch up in 3 or 4 yrs???IMO

 

 

How so? I haven't even seen a horsepower rating for the new 5.7L. Toyota's 4.7L w/ DOHC and VVT only made 282hp, yet Ford has their 4.6 making 292-300hp with SOHC and moderate VVT, there's still room for DOHC on Ford's motors (last DOHC 4.6 made 320+hp, last DOHC 5.4 made 385+hp) as well as more advanced VVT. I do think Toyota's V6 is better right now, but hopefully Ford is working on a 4.xL version of the new 3.5 to get in their trucks. I don't know, there really isn't anything great about this new Tundra, nothing that makes it stand out. The Ram has had 345hp for YEARS now, and GM is going to top that with their 6.0L pushing 355hp. The Titan offers 305hp but has a great 5spd auto that makes it move like it has 350+. So, until we get the actual numbers on the new 5.7L I can't see any compelling reason to choose this over any of the current choices unless I was blinded by the "Toyota can do no wrong" fantasies that some people have.

[ANTAUS]

" and the legendary 4.7-liter i-Force V8,"

 

Who deemed them legendary ? Where the "F" did this come from ? Legendary? What a crock....

[RichardJensen]

Ford's supercab with 8' bed is 248" long, so they still hold an edge over the Tundra in overall length. The Tundra Doublecab clocking in at 240" is probably due to it coming with a 6.5' bed, not a 5.5' bed (Ford's SuperCrew only has the 5.5' bed available--the assumption being that if you need the long bed and the crewcab, you can buy an F250).

 

This looks to be more competitive than the Nissan Titan, but it is no world beater. C channel frame means more flex over unpaved surfaces, added height and girth means the vehicle is more unwieldy for tight maneuvering.

 

Also gas mileage will probably be pretty bad, the engine will be a paper tiger with little in the way of low-end grunt, and also that 10k+ tow limit is optimistic.

 

I'd bet that if Ford followed similar tow rating standards, the F150 would have a higher tow rating.

 

The F150 frame looks a lot more durable and a lot stronger than the Tundra's, and therefore, I'm guessing the F150 can tow the Tundra's rated capacity way better than the Tundra can.

 

Toyota will soon learn the foolishness of rating their truck at 5 tons. Bubba will be towing 6, and when his darned transmission keeps blowin' up, and when his frame's bent from the strain on the hitch, and when all the bodywork is loose and wobbly because the mount points have all been torqued after months of 11/10ths and more towing/payload on rough surfaces, Toyota will find that they still can't cut it.

 

I'm tellin' ya, if that frame can handle 5 tons, the F150 can too. Ford's just smart enough to keep their numbers.... reasonable.

 

Sure it sounds silly to say so, but I'm tellin' ya, Ford's truck engineers sandbag the tow and payload ratings of their trucks--that's how they get their reputation for toughness--the dang things can handle way more than what you're supposed to do with them.

 

...

Edited February 10, 2006 by RichardJensen

[llog215]

Ford's supercab with 8' bed is 248" long, so they still hold an edge over the Tundra in overall length. The Tundra Doublecab clocking in at 240" is probably due to it coming with a 6.5' bed, not a 5.5' bed (Ford's SuperCrew only has the 5.5' bed available--the assumption being that if you need the long bed and the crewcab, you can buy an F250).

 

I thought Ford began offering a 6' bed in the SuperCrew for '06.

 

An improvement for Toyota but it doesn't seem like they added anything unique to the market. With an updated F150 about a year and half away, I think Ford will be able to more than hold their own.

 

I wonder if a lack of a true V6 in the F150 will sway some of the commercial/contractor business to Toyota?

[RichardJensen]

I thought Ford began offering a 6' bed in the SuperCrew for '06.

 

An improvement for Toyota but it doesn't seem like they added anything unique to the market. With an updated F150 about a year and half away, I think Ford will be able to more than hold their own.

 

I wonder if a lack of a true V6 in the F150 will sway some of the commercial/contractor business to Toyota?

Nah. The old Tundra was preferable because it was more maneuverable and compact.

 

I mean lets take a look at realities here:

 

Toyota has like ZERO dealer penetration into the heart of its new target truck buyer. Many of the serious truck users in my state would have to drive over an hour to get to a Toyota dealership. This is true throughout "flyover" country.

 

Toyota's best bet was to work its strong suit: the urban truck market--the Tundra already had distinct advantages over the F150 in the commercial/contractor side of things (where there is a premium placed on maneuverability, also efficiency). Had Toyota bumped up the Tundra a bit in size, an a lot in fuel economy, and aimed for greater penetration in the urban market, they would've been doing the smart thing.

 

Instead they're going for this land grab with the new Tundra that looks doomed to fail.

 

...

[one2gamble]

wow, the googlebot just made a post

 

 

wtf

 

Toyota's best bet was to work its strong suit: the urban truck market--the Tundra already had distinct advantages over the F150 in the commercial/contractor side of things (where there is a premium placed on maneuverability, also efficiency). Had Toyota bumped up the Tundra a bit in size, an a lot in fuel economy, and aimed for greater penetration in the urban market, they would've been doing the smart thing.

 

This in my opinion is where the ranger or an F-100 should come in. Something a smidgen bigger than a colorado but still significantly smaller than the current F-150 with engine options and bed configurations that make it usable for a true truck buyer.

 

Or is that what the sport trac is trying to do?

[robertlane]

This article makes two good points:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-0...ow-trucks_x.htm

 

"Ford will update the F-150 in the next year, improving its powertrain among other features. And GM will launch completely redesigned pickups next year.

 

Even so, Johnson says, that might not be enough to blunt the appeal of a big, beefy pickup with an all-American resume combined with Toyota's reputation for high-quality manufacturing and slow depreciation."

[Drake]

Could they more blatently copy the RAM?

 

I can't wait until Car & Driver and Motor Trend call it a bold, new innovative design. :rolleyes: :angry:

[2005GTP]

Since the Expy is getting a six speed, I presume F-150's will be getting them next? And while the press is going to talk the Tundra up like they did with the Titan, what do you think Ford is doing as we speak? They surely are not resting on their current designs. That being said, even if the Tundra does well, I dont think they will be taking share away from Ford. It will come at the expense of GM, Dodge, certainly Nissan and I am sure their own Tacoma sales.

[one2gamble]

This article makes two good points:

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2006-0...ow-trucks_x.htm

 

"Ford will update the F-150 in the next year, improving its powertrain among other features. And GM will launch completely redesigned pickups next year.

 

Even so, Johnson says, that might not be enough to blunt the appeal of a big, beefy pickup with an all-American resume combined with Toyota's reputation for high-quality manufacturing and slow depreciation."

 

 

It makes a few points but then says things like this that simply cant be justified

 

Brian Johnson, an analyst with Sanford Bernstein, says the new Tundra could be a bigger threat than expected to Ford and General Motors, the dominant pickup makers. Both already have lost some sales to Nissan's beefy Titan.

F-150 sales are not down

 

and this

 

Tundra was launched in 1999 as a 2000 model. It replaced the T100, which failed to catch on because it was considerably smaller than its rivals and offered only a V-6 engine.

 

when in reality it didnt catch on because it was a pile of shit

Edited February 10, 2006 by one2gamble

[range]

Ford's SuperCrew only has the 5.5' bed available--the assumption being that if you need the long bed and the crewcab, you can buy an F250).

 

Starting with December 2005 production, Ford now offers the SuperCREW with a 6.5' box. Length is 235.8".

[jsleesma]

It seems to me that it won't matter what the technical merits of the F-150 are. As soon as Car and Driver etc. get their hands on the Tundra it will be "Truck of the Year" just like the Ridgeline (which, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't a TRUCK because it has no FRAME)

 

(just venting a bit)

[Michael Reynolds]

Toyota's reputation for high-quality manufacturing

 

That statement is what pisses me off the most. These idiots generally assume that every segment Toyota touches translates into Toyota making the highest quality vehicle. The Sport Trac (outgoing), Ranger, and F 150 typically dominate the small, midsize, and large pickup quality rankings, not Toyota.

 

Once again doomsday for Detroit. It's getting real tired.

[CGI]

How so? I haven't even seen a horsepower rating for the new 5.7L. Toyota's 4.7L w/ DOHC and VVT only made 282hp, yet Ford has their 4.6 making 292-300hp with SOHC and moderate VVT, there's still room for DOHC on Ford's motors (last DOHC 4.6 made 320+hp, last DOHC 5.4 made 385+hp) as well as more advanced VVT.

 

 

 

Just listen to this

 

Q:How many horsepower is this engine going to produce

 

A:Last september i was told 400hp.

 

A:Im not that crazy about the looks of it, Id prefer a more boxy shape.

At the same time, Id bet that as round as it's shape is, the fuel economy should be pretty decent.

Id still like to see some solid numbers on the engine's hp/torque. If its a 5.7L DOHC, Id say that 400 hp is a VERY realistic predicition.

If GM can get 300+ hp out of an OHV 16-valve V8, I see no reason why Toyota cant get 375-400 hp out of a DOHC 32-valve VVT-i V8

Toyota Nation

 

The NASCAR Tundra is running with 650 hp

[swenson88]

Just listen to this

 

Q:How many horsepower is this engine going to produce

 

A:Last september i was told 400hp.

 

A:Im not that crazy about the looks of it, Id prefer a more boxy shape.

At the same time, Id bet that as round as it's shape is, the fuel economy should be pretty decent.

Id still like to see some solid numbers on the engine's hp/torque. If its a 5.7L DOHC, Id say that 400 hp is a VERY realistic predicition.

If GM can get 300+ hp out of an OHV 16-valve V8, I see no reason why Toyota cant get 375-400 hp out of a DOHC 32-valve VVT-i V8

Toyota Nation

 

The NASCAR Tundra is running with 650 hp

 

I'm not saying they CAN'T get 400hp out of it, but look at the Titan - DOHC 5.6L rated at 305hp. Toyota's own DOHC 4.7L rated at "only" 282hp, even though they have a 3.5L V6 putting out 305hp. Any manufacturer can get 400hp out of a big ole 5.7L V8 (GM's been doing it for years), it's a matter of will they or won't they.

Edited February 10, 2006 by swenson88

[Blueblood]

It looks horrible, it's like an odd mesh of a Dodge Ram and a Japanese cartoon.

 

The only area that worries me with the F-150 is it's worst in segment powertrain. Ford better step it up big in the next couple of years, I know at least 6-7 people that have bought full size trucks in the past couple of years, all of them are either GM's or Dodge's. I asked every single one of them why they didn't buy the far superior Ford, their answer, no power. Pick-up truck owners like having some grunt. Better have that Hurricane soon Ford.

 

You'd think they'd have at least dropped the 6 speed in it already, that would help a little, only if it's programmed right though!

[J2D]

The Toyota truck appears to be a bigger version of their tacoma truck too me, which isn't a bad looking truck. True this new Tundra doesn't bring anything new to the segment just a little needed competition to keep both Ford and GM on their toes.

But what bothers me is that back on January 23. Ford made an announcement about closing 2 more unknown assembly plants. One of those plants which was speculated for closer was a Truck Plant.

Now after looking at and seeing Toyota's new Tundra. I would like to ask two questions that everyone( at least me) has been wondering and worried about:

 

Will Toyota steal sells from the F-150?

 

Is Ford being run by a bunch of cowardly Gay Pussy's? (broke back mountain type)

 

Ford Truck is suppose to be about TOUGH, but it appeared to me that they were and probably still is worried about much of nothing. It's no wonder Toyota has come so far, it's not about being the best at anything, it's about bluffing the next person into believing that you're bigger than what you appear to be.

I find it funny that everyone believes that Toyota has better quailty than the domestic, when we all know that those claims are untrue. The problem is that the Domestic doesn't believe in themselves as a challenger, nor believe that they can continue to be LEADERS at this game.

So in saying if Ford is worried about losing shares and sells to the competition which they believe to be one entity. then F' it sell the company.

 

P.S. Toyota will only become bigger if you allow it to. Stop crying and do what you do best, build great F'ckn n F-series Trucks and it wouldn't hurt if you build a few cars too.