National Health Care

[fmccap]

Totally unfettered capitalism? Let the businesses do whatever they want in the pursuit of profits? Do not hold them to any standards? Do not hold them to any responsibilities to the safety and good health of their customers and employees and the environment? Do you want some more Global Crossings, Enrons, Waste Managements, WorldComs, Tycos ...?

 

Theodore Roosevelt saw the results of unfettered capitalism and he put the power of the government, which represents the interests of the people, to put restraints on those Robber Barons.

Are you saying that you are not responsible enough to do these things yourself?????

[Trimdingman]

Prosperous for whom? Was it widely prosperous for many or a few?

 

They were the best times that had ever been seen. Socialists are too concerned about how much money the other guy has. When you look at all of the factors which make up the quality of life, money is way down the list. Socialists are fixated on money. If someone does not have enough money, they will not be able to survive. That is their thinking. They have to take the money and re-distribute it. Most of it gets re-distributed to themselves. My grand-mother was widowed with 9 kids in 1934 in rural Nova Scotia. They survived without government help. Would you be able to? People are very self-reliant if they are forced to be.

[mountaineerwv]

Learn about how this country was founded also.That stuff is supposed to be left to the states, not federal.

 

And the answer to what you asked and I put in bold. National Guard Troops Denied Benefits After Longest Deployment Of Iraq War

 

Why don't they just be outright and say they squandered the money elsewhere or have other plans for it.

 

Our founding fathers did not have the foresight to imagine all the possibilities, thus the interpretation by our courts and our legislators to handle modern day issues. We elect our representatives to enact laws that benefit society at large and the courts to make sure the laws are being followed.

 

And, no, some things are not to be done by the individual states. What would have happened to the Civil Rights movement if not for intervention of the federal government. George Wallace standing in the doorway of the U of Alabama was your example of States Rights. There are some issues too important to have a patchwork application of rights and laws, like Civil Rights and Abortion and Voting Rights.

 

States Rights? Where was the application of States Rights in FL in 2000?

 

Yes, the Bush Administration and the NeoCons who are now in control of our government are denying benefits to our troops while lavishing big tax cuts on their corporate cronies. Shameful. This is not the fault of a government program, it is the fault of those who are administering the program.

[Trimdingman]

So, let me get this straight: You would let them starve?

 

How could I let them starve? There is plenty of food around. They are just too lazy to go and get it. My grand-mother survived with 9 kids in the poorest area during the depression. A dumpster behind a restaurant to them would have been like a gold mine. A one dollar a day job would be like Heaven. When the war started in 1939, my father was 18. He crossed the Bay of Fundy (40 miles) in a punt with a Putt Putt motor to enlist. Even his 16 year old brother lied about his age to get in.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Trimdingman

[mountaineerwv]

How could I let them starve? There is plenty of food around. They are just too lazy to go and get it. My grand-mother survived with 9 kids in the poorest area during the depression. A dumpster behind a restaurant to them would have been like a gold mine. A one dollar a day job would be like Heaven. When the war started in 1939, my father was 18. He crossed the Bay of Fundy (40 miles) in a punt with a Putt Putt motor to enlist. Even his 16 year old brother lied about his age to get in.

 

Eat out of dumpsters? You're a complete idiot. Goodbye, no sense wasting anymore of my time with such idiotic statements as has come from your keyboard.

[mountaineerwv]

Are you saying that you are not responsible enough to do these things yourself?????

 

No, are you capable of doing these things yourself? Are you capable of building your own schools, roads, sewer systems, water systems? Are you capable of providing your own fire and police force? Are you capable of guaranteeing the safety of your water, food and the air you breathe?

 

Do you take such stupid positions just to be argumentative? Since you use Dr. No as your moniker, I take it you support Ron Paul, a whacko Libertarian?

[mountaineerwv]

Show me the facts my friend. Learn what you are talking about first.

Health care in the United States

 

Seems to me that almost half of all healthcare is paid by government.

 

44% for Government programs leaves 56% for Private insurance. Which is larger - 44% or 56% ??

[mountaineerwv]

Again, you obvuscate the issue!!!

 

You ask, "show me one country that have single payer systems who want to change their systems and move to one like ours."

 

That would be like going from the frying pan into the fire, lolol. Just like some elections, the choices are bad, or worse in this instance.

 

But this is NOT an election!!!!! We don't have 2 choices, we have several.

 

What is reality is simple--------->Our government does nothing efficiently unless it is tied to the military; and even that is not great. SSI? Welfare? Medicade? Medicare? WIC? You name it, they screw it up. It is as easy as that! To suggest they will change their stripes for this program is ludicrous.

 

Calling conservatives such names is not nice, lolol. GW is a phoney conservative, while Rosey and Mike Moore are real liberals, kinda like you!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can agree with you that the current healthcare situation needs to be changed, but must disagree that any government takeover is wise. No, the answer does NOT lie with the government except for possible legislation to improve accountability.

 

If the answer was government, then everything else they have done would be wonderful, the USSR would still be in business, and Cuba would be a powerhouse. It is not, they are not, but damned if you don't want to try it again!!!!!!

 

It is obfuscate, not obvuscate:

 

ob·fus·cate /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object), -cat·ed, -cat·ing.

1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.

2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.

3. to darken.

 

 

Our government administers Medicare much more efficiently than any for profit insurance company. The Government also administers many programs more efficiently than the private sector, like public schools. The Edison Project failed in that attempt.

 

And, stop bringing USSR and Cuba into this discussion. They have NOTHING to do with the discussion on Single Payer Health Care. You just bring them into the discussion to do what conservatives do best - scare people.

[mountaineerwv]

They got you right where they want you. divided and argueing back and forth in there TWO-Party system while they just do as they please because your a pre-occupied sheep.

 

You never get anything done by standing on the sidelines. Compromise is necessary in our system and Mr. No has never compromised his libertarian views, thus his moniker of Dr. No. Whether you like it or not, we are a 2-party government and you have to work within that system to affect change. Not the Greens, not the libertarians, but the Democrats or Republicans. Choose a side and make things happen!

 

Oh, it should be "...you're a pre-occupied sheep." and ...arguing...". We would not want anyone to get the impression that you are not educated, would we?

[fmccap]

Eat out of dumpsters? You're a complete idiot. Goodbye, no sense wasting anymore of my time with such idiotic statements as has come from your keyboard.

So in this day and age you are entitled to a 5 star 7 course dinner???

[fmccap]

No, are you capable of doing these things yourself? Are you capable of building your own schools, roads, sewer systems, water systems? Are you capable of providing your own fire and police force? Are you capable of guaranteeing the safety of your water, food and the air you breathe?

 

Do you take such stupid positions just to be argumentative? Since you use Dr. No as your moniker, I take it you support Ron Paul, a whacko Libertarian?

Are you capable of reading what quote I responded to?????? Does not look like it, maybe you do need someone to hold your hand in life, that's hard to believe because you are so educated.

QUOTE(mountaineerwv @ Oct 6 2007, 05:36 PM)

Totally unfettered capitalism? Let the businesses do whatever they want in the pursuit of profits? Do not hold them to any standards? Do not hold them to any responsibilities to the safety and good health of their customers and employees and the environment? Do you want some more Global Crossings, Enrons, Waste Managements, WorldComs, Tycos ...?

 

Theodore Roosevelt saw the results of unfettered capitalism and he put the power of the government, which represents the interests of the people, to put restraints on those Robber Barons.

Edited October 7, 2007 by fmccap

[fmccap]

44% for Government programs leaves 56% for Private insurance. Which is larger - 44% or 56% ??

I really think you do need someone to hold your hand. READ THE FACTS -

In 2004, private insurance paid for 36% of personal health expenditures, private out-of-pocket payments were 15%, while federal, state, and local governments paid 44%.[

Don't obfuscate the facts to your favor!

[fmccap]

No, are you capable of doing these things yourself? Are you capable of building your own schools, roads, sewer systems, water systems? Are you capable of providing your own fire and police force? Are you capable of guaranteeing the safety of your water, food and the air you breathe?

 

Do you take such stupid positions just to be argumentative? Since you use Dr. No as your moniker, I take it you support Ron Paul, a whacko Libertarian?

Schools are great in this country,right?

Roads suck.

There are many problems with the water.

Many corrupt police forces.

How many food recalls have there been lately?

[fmccap]

It is obfuscate, not obvuscate:

 

ob·fus·cate /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–verb (used with object), -cat·ed, -cat·ing.

1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.

2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.

3. to darken.

Our government administers Medicare much more efficiently than any for profit insurance company. The Government also administers many programs more efficiently than the private sector, like public schools. The Edison Project failed in that attempt.

 

And, stop bringing USSR and Cuba into this discussion. They have NOTHING to do with the discussion on Single Payer Health Care. You just bring them into the discussion to do what conservatives do best - scare people.

Our government administers Medicare much more efficiently than any for profit insurance company.

Yea, cut benifits and raise the money coming in. Ask my grandmother.

 

The Government also administers many programs more efficiently than the private sector, like public schools.

Which way is the US headed compared to the world in rankings???? I'll give you one guess and it's not up.

 

What do you liberals do best?? Let me ask you this, if I was to invent the worlds greatest invention(whatever that may be) your saying I owe it to you, your entitled to it???

[fmccap]

You never get anything done by standing on the sidelines. Compromise is necessary in our system and Mr. No has never compromised his libertarian views, thus his moniker of Dr. No. Whether you like it or not, we are a 2-party government and you have to work within that system to affect change. Not the Greens, not the libertarians, but the Democrats or Republicans. Choose a side and make things happen!

 

Oh, it should be "...you're a pre-occupied sheep." and ...arguing...". We would not want anyone to get the impression that you are not educated, would we?

When you say never compromise his views you forget to say that he has never compromised what the Constitution says either.

[ibew124/uaw249]

I have yet to see the Government Efficiantly run any program. Do you really want the lane brains in Washington doing to Medical like they have done for social securtity (going broke), FAA regulations have done to air travel, FDA has done to drug costs, ect ect ect.

 

JMHO

[mountaineerwv]

Yea, cut benifits and raise the money coming in. Ask my grandmother.

 

Yea, so? SS was not meant to be a pension, only a supplement to keep you out of poverty.

 

With the coming retirement of the Baby Boomers, we are looking at more cuts and/or raising taxes. Too bad we have a cap on the income that is taxed for this program at around $90K. The rich do not contribute as much as a % as do the rest of us. This is another example of a regressive tax.

[mountaineerwv]

When you say never compromise his views you forget to say that he has never compromised what the Constitution says either.

 

Are you saying that our government is not obeying the Constitution? Which articles are they not obeying?

[mountaineerwv]

So in this day and age you are entitled to a 5 star 7 course dinner???

 

So there is nothing in between eating out of dumpsters and a 5 star 7 course dinner???????? Who knew!

 

The compassion is just oozing out from the conservatives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fmccap]

Yea, so? SS was not meant to be a pension, only a supplement to keep you out of poverty.

 

With the coming retirement of the Baby Boomers, we are looking at more cuts and/or raising taxes. Too bad we have a cap on the income that is taxed for this program at around $90K. The rich do not contribute as much as a % as do the rest of us. This is another example of a regressive tax.

You are unreal. How long was SS overfunded? So now they have to take cuts or we have to pay more taxes because the government wasted the money????

 

As far as keep you out of poverty, I have a disabled father-in law who if it was not for him taking care of himself very well financially throughtout his life he would be living very deep in poverty.

[fmccap]

So there is nothing in between eating out of dumpsters and a 5 star 7 course dinner???????? Who knew!

 

The compassion is just oozing out from the conservatives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then go out and get it. You are not entitled to it from everyone else.

[mountaineerwv]

I have yet to see the Government Efficiantly run any program. Do you really want the lane brains in Washington doing to Medical like they have done for social securtity (going broke), FAA regulations have done to air travel, FDA has done to drug costs, ect ect ect.

 

JMHO

 

Efficiently, not efficiantly.

Lame brains, not lane brains.

Social Security, not Social Secutity.

etc., etc. not ect (Etcetera)

 

If you do not think the government has run ANY program efficiently, then you are ignorant.

 

FDA does not affect drug costs, they are an agency to check on the efficacy of new drugs. FAA regulations have not adversely affected the safety of air travel. SS is not going broke, just ask Alan Greenspan.

[mountaineerwv]

Then go out and get it. You are not entitled to it from everyone else.

 

Oh, I see, if the Founding Fathers did not include it in the Constitution, then we do not provide it? I guess you Libertarians do not think you are your brothers' keeper? Sad, very sad commentary on the Libertarian philosophy. I guess Libertarians only worry about themselves and f&*k everybody else. Another reason this is a fringe group.

[mountaineerwv]

You are unreal. How long was SS overfunded? So now they have to take cuts or we have to pay more taxes because the government wasted the money????

 

As far as keep you out of poverty, I have a disabled father-in law who if it was not for him taking care of himself very well financially throughtout his life he would be living very deep in poverty.

 

You are thick, aren't you? SS is not going broke, just ask Alan Greenspan. Some minor tweaks like what was done by the SS commission in 1983 will make it solvent for many, many more years. Where did I say SS was overfunded? Typical conservative crap, make stuff up.

 

Wasted the money? How was it wasted? On the little old grannies out there?

 

Another anecdotal story? If your father-in-law is eligible, then he can take advantage of the government programs like Medicare and SS and if he is very poor, he is eligible for Medicaid.

[unionj]

Any UAW member earning what you do who would want to pay more in taxes and then have to wait behind someone who just got of the boat and has not paid into the system is a fool.

 

"9 months on the waiting list, just take these pain pills till then and hope you do not go into withdrawal after the surgery and no more pills"

"I don't care if you do not like my attitude or the service, this is it so shut up and get in line"

"I know you paid 40% of your $70k income in taxes but you still have to wait behind all these illegal and legal immigrants who are collecting social services"

FOOLS FOOLS FOOLS, YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU SOW!