Is there a possiblity of a Fusion Coupe

[koczani]

A hardtop coupe could sell. As far as taking away Mustang Sales, I don't think it would happen. A Fusion Coupe would be a real four passenger vehicle. A Mustang is a two person car with a vestigal back seat. If you go back to the 60's many cars were offered as Hardtop Coupes, Four Door Sedans, and even convertibles. The issue is choice. Not everyone is enamored with a sedan. Chysler tried it with the Charger, and it has been lackluster. I saw the Accord Coupe on a TV ad and thought the Japanese see the future (which is really just our past, but we forgot how to do it).

[ShockFX]

A hardtop coupe could sell. As far as taking away Mustang Sales, I don't think it would happen. A Fusion Coupe would be a real four passenger vehicle. A Mustang is a two person car with a vestigal back seat. If you go back to the 60's many cars were offered as Hardtop Coupes, Four Door Sedans, and even convertibles. The issue is choice. Not everyone is enamored with a sedan. Chysler tried it with the Charger, and it has been lackluster. I saw the Accord Coupe on a TV ad and thought the Japanese see the future (which is really just our past, but we forgot how to do it).

 

40,000 Accord coupes a year are not the future.

[Furious1Auto]

That's not enough of a reason to build it.

I don't understand why you guys insist it would cost a fortune to put two doors on it, your not building a new car from the platform up!

[ShockFX]

I don't understand why you guys insist it would cost a fortune to put two doors on it, your not building a new car from the platform up!

 

You have to design, market, and build the car. In addtion, you have to get suppliers for new parts and probably slightly retool a flex plant. If the car would only sell 12,000 at a likely $1,500 profit, that is only $18 million returned per year. I can't see how it would cost less than $100 million to make and certify this new coupe you all want. Ford is better of putting its money where it can get a decent return on investment.

[Furious1Auto]

You have to design, market, and build the car. In addtion, you have to get suppliers for new parts and probably slightly retool a flex plant. If the car would only sell 12,000 at a likely $1,500 profit, that is only $18 million returned per year. I can't see how it would cost less than $100 million to make and certify this new coupe you all want. Ford is better of putting its money where it can get a decent return on investment.

Don't even spend $1 dollar extra on advertising it, with the number of people I've heard calling for it on this and other forums, word of mouth would take over and sell the car for you! You can't put Lambo doors on a 4 door car or at least you shouldn't, and that's a popular mod now days. Not to mention the conversion kits are becoming relatively cheap. Imagine this with these doors!! I do realize the Charger is a 4 door but the back cood is so short it almost appears to be a coupe!

Edited September 25, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[ShockFX]

Don't even spend $1 dollar extra on advertising it, with the number of people I've heard calling for it on this and other forums, word of mouth would take over and sell the car for you! You can't put Lambo doors on a 4 door car or at least you shouldn't, and that's a popular mod now days. Not to mention the conversion kits are becoming relatively cheap. Imagine this with these doors!! I do realize the Charger is a 4 door but the back cood is so short it almost appears to be a coupe!

 

The point isn't could Ford do it, the point is they can get a better return elsewhere.

 

Man, why doens't Ford base its product line and development on what some random people on a bunch of forums think. I can't believe they won't run the company that way.

[Furious1Auto]

The point isn't could Ford do it, the point is they can get a better return elsewhere.

 

Man, why doens't Ford base its product line and development on what some "their customer base" thinks. I can't believe they won't run the company that way.

Because the forums I'm referring to are full of "their customer base", now I fix you quote to reflect reality and see how ignorant your comment was!

Edited September 25, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[ShockFX]

Because the forums I'm referring to are full of "their customer base", now I fix you quote to reflect reality and see how ignorant your comment was!

 

I didn't know soccer moms frequented forums. The more you know...

[Furious1Auto]

I didn't know soccer moms frequented forums. The more you know...

Their aren't any soccer moms on http://www.fordfusionclub.com/ just Fusion enthusiasts!

[ShockFX]

Their aren't any soccer moms on http://www.fordfusionclub.com/ just Fusion enthusiasts!

 

Turns out enthusiasts are not the customer BASE.

[Furious1Auto]

Turns out enthusiasts are not the customer BASE.

Your right they influence the buying decisions of the next generation, That's why with the little it costs to add a turbo would be worth it on a limited basis. Maybe even limited to an order only option, scion adds mods all day long wile the majority of their customers don't opt for the mods all of their customers appreciate the options. Most people don't buy a Shelby GT 500, but they still build it and didn't have to build a platform to do it!

[ShockFX]

Your right they influence the buying decisions of the next generation, That's why with the little it costs to add a turbo would be worth it on a limited basis. Maybe even limited to an order only option, scion adds mods all day long wile the majority of their customers don't opt for the mods all of their customers appreciate the options. Most people don't buy a Shelby GT 500, but they still build it and didn't have to build a platform to do it!

 

Once again, Ford could spend $100 million on a Fusion coupe so enthusiasts make the car seem better for all the other Fusion buyers, or Ford could spend $100 million to make the Fusion better and get more and happier buyers. I'm not arguing a couple wouldn't be well received, i'm arguing it's not what Ford needs right now.

[Furious1Auto]

Retracted!

Edited September 27, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

Once again, Ford could spend $100 million on a Fusion coupe so enthusiasts make the car seem better for all the other Fusion buyers, or Ford could spend $100 million to make the Fusion better and get more and happier buyers. I'm not arguing a couple wouldn't be well received, i'm arguing it's not what Ford needs right now.

That estimate may be a little inflated, and you may be right as far as a coupe. But their is a need for a performance "turbo" Fusion!!

Edited September 28, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[matthewq4b]

Build it and do not second guess it or look back.

 

As for Coupe sales I have seen more new mid sized 2 doors on the road recently than I have in the preceding 8 years. This segment is starting to come back.

 

This current gen of young people are getting married later in life and having Children later as well. Currently the average age of new mothers in my area is over 30.

 

This generation are picking fun to drive vehicles for personal transportation befor they get tied down with a spouse and kids. Jeeps 2 door imports and low and mid range sporty cars. Most of these vehicles are being driven by women here as most guys here own P/U trucks. And lets face it in most house holds the female has a lot of input in to what is bought for a vehicle. Also the women usually gets the brand new car and the guy the older or used one.

 

Put them in a Ford now and when the time comes to cough up for that CUV Ford is where they will look first and not last.

 

Yes it will cost some bucks but not an overly large amount. You have to look at it this way all it has to do is break even Now, as it will reap bigger rewards in years down the road.

 

The target demo for these cars will more than likely be younger single first time new car buyers. The bulk of the customers for this car would never even consider any thing Ford is making right now. And would Migrate to Hyundai Toyota Honda Mitsu etc instead. And be lost forever.

Wword of mouth does more for product sales in this demographic than any amount of advertizing.

 

These are the kind of cars that can help build the next generation of loyal Ford buyers. As it stands now what does Ford have to offer the mid-late 20's individual that is wanting a fun to drive and sporty looking vehicle?

 

The Mustang and that is it, the Mustang has a reputation and image that does not appeal to the bulk of this group in todays world. 40 years ago it hit this target demographic bang on. Cheap reliable and fun to drive and had a fun to own image and had tremndous sales cause of it. Muscle cars were in big time and the enviromental awarness was making sure you did not forget you slicker when it rained.

 

Now the Mustang is a Muscle car, plain and simple and is marketed and insured as such as such. Not exactly the choice of vehicle for this group. Ford is completly off the radar for most Urban single first time new car buyers.

 

Ford is missing the boat big time by not having an offering in this segment. Not only are they missing out on the sales now but missing out on insuring the development of future Loyal Ford customers. With the drastic improvements in quality they have made and the terrible dealer service and quality the Imports are starting to have this segment is ripe for the picking.

 

Hope fully Ford will get their act together with the next gen of Fusion and offer a sporty looking 2 door that can actually seat 4.

 

Matthew

Edited October 1, 2007 by matthewq4b

[Furious1Auto]

I totally agree, the old think around here is an anchor for Ford and limits market growth! If you watch you pennies to hard then you will miss out on true success! This is true with some of the Plastic (non-soft composite) interiors that Ford is currently producing! Although I won't name which products their guilty of using them in!

[texer rangas]

matthewq4b-

you are spot on.

I think most of us know this idea/post is about a complicated yet important product issue.

It is NOT about building the MOST successful vehicle in the business. Or, making the MOST profitable case for a new vehicle.

It is about filling a niche in today's market. It's about developing a vehicle that Ford has done many times in the past and other makers are doing now and in the future.

It is about being aggressive (somewhat) and building a talked about, paid attention to AND purchased vehicle by a segment of buyers that Ford has not paid alot of attention to and therefor has not at all profited from recently.

And, like I said - Ford could use the street cred and pub that would come from a project like this -

of course - if executed real well.

[Explorer4X4]

There is a market for mid-size coupes, and I think Ford (now with Alan at the helm) will eventually get a Fusion Coupe in there. Honda, Pontiac, Nissan, they all have coupe variations of their mid-size sedans. In fact, Pontiac has G6 Sedans, Coupes, and Convertibles. Ford could do the same, with the addition of a Fusion Coupe and Convertible (its possible, and the Fusion would look and perform good in both coupe/convertible styles). Hell, Ford could run an advertising campaign telling the public that no other mid-size sedan offers the variety Fusion does (if only, if only). If Ford did introduced a convertible and coupe Fusion, that would be in addition to the Fusion Hybrid and sedan.

[GregHowe]

I love the look of the Fusion and I love the Mustangs. I own 2 Mustang GTs and I would love to own a Fusion as long as it's a coupe. Hiow can you guys sit there and compare the Fusion to the Mustang? They are 2 totally seperate cars.

 

Mustang:

 

Rear wheel drive

Smallest engine 4.0

2 occupants comfortably

 

Fusion:

 

Front wheel drive

Largest engine 3.5

4 occupants comfortably

 

Yes I remember when they made all different versions of the same car back in the 60's and 70's. I always hated the 4 door cars and haven't owned one since my 67 Ford LTD. I don't like the seat belt position in a 4 door car. You can't look over your shoulder without looking at the pillar. I like the rendering of those Fusions. I can't imagine it would cost that much to produce this car. Advertising, not mcu at all. All you have to do is just add it to the existing advertising. Just add a picture of the 2 door version and add a statement saying now available in a 2 door coupe.

 

If Ford would have got up off their butts when they designed the Fusion to make a 4 door and 2 door version, we would of had it on the road along with the 4 door. People want some flexibility with their cars and not a dictator of what we get. That is what Detroit is doing to us and that is why more and more people are jumping ship to imports. If they did produce the 2 door version, I would bet sales of the Fusion would climb 8-10 percent overall. People who buy the Fusion right now wants a 4 door car but there are some who bought the 4 door wishes they had 2 doors. Why can't people see a small gold mine when it slaps them up the side of their heads? The only other car Ford puts out that has 2 doors is the Focus and that my friends is a bit too small for my big a$$.

[syrtran]

I can't imagine it would cost that much to produce this car. Advertising, not mcu at all.

You need to imagine a little harder.

 

First, this is a unit-body car. Everything you see is a part of the frame.

 

Okay, let's start imagining -

 

The b-pillar has to be moved back, let's say 6 inches, to allow access to the rear seats. This means longer frame sections from the firewall and windshield header to the b-pillar connections. These frame sections, therefore, have to be strengthened. However, strengthening them also makes them heavier and stiffer. Stiffer also means higher harmonics which adds unfavorably to NVH. Also, if the floorpan hasn't been designed with a more rearward b-pillar in mind, then you will also have to strengthen the connection points and even, possibly, relocate the cross-member.

 

A heavier center section will require that the front subframe and fender sections be examined to determine if they are capable of supporting the new weight. If not, then they will need to be strengthened as well.

 

Now, the door, obviously, also has to be made 6 inches longer. This makes the door heavier. Not only that, but the longer door will also need to be made stronger to support its new weight, and to keep the required side-impact capability. This makes the door heavier yet.

 

A heavier door will also require that the door hinge also needs to be re-examined. The a-pillar will also need to be strengthened, and possibly the firewall may need a change in design. Again, more weight, more stiffness, and possibly worse NVH.

 

Then there's the roof. It would be possible to leave the roof styling as it is, but some here would want more. A new roof design would affect the structural composition of the rear fender and trunk sections of the frame. This may or may not affect stiffness, weight, or NVH based on the design of the roof.

 

And, of course, any changes to the structure of the car will also require new crash tests.

 

Notice that I've kept the full b-pillar. Forget a hardtop as that will severely weaken the side-impact protection.

 

You will also need new interior pieces and new window glass. The door trim and glass needs to be longer, and the rear side panels need to be shorter. The rear deck panel design will depend on the roof design. You may also need a new header panel, even if the existing roof design remains.

 

Now all these changes in weight and stiffness will also have an effect on suspension. If the weight goes up, you will need to change to stiffer springs, and the shocks will need to be adjusted accordingly. And tested. This assumes that the existing bearings and suspension arms will handle the new weight.

 

This all assumes that Hermosillo (and all suppliers) can already accommodate the variations in the structure and that no changes to the line are required.

 

When you've done all this, you'll discover that you've done about 75% of the work required in creating an all-new vehicle. It isn't as simple as just punching a larger hole in the side. My guess is that there will not be a coupe version of the Fusion on CD3. Maybe Ford will work on it for the next one.

[Furious1Auto]

You need to imagine a little harder.

 

First, this is a unit-body car. Everything you see is a part of the frame.

 

Okay, let's start imagining -

 

The b-pillar has to be moved back, let's say 6 inches, to allow access to the rear seats. This means longer frame sections from the firewall and windshield header to the b-pillar connections. These frame sections, therefore, have to be strengthened. However, strengthening them also makes them heavier and stiffer. Stiffer also means higher harmonics which adds unfavorably to NVH. Also, if the floorpan hasn't been designed with a more rearward b-pillar in mind, then you will also have to strengthen the connection points and even, possibly, relocate the cross-member.

 

A heavier center section will require that the front subframe and fender sections be examined to determine if they are capable of supporting the new weight. If not, then they will need to be strengthened as well.

 

Now, the door, obviously, also has to be made 6 inches longer. This makes the door heavier. Not only that, but the longer door will also need to be made stronger to support its new weight, and to keep the required side-impact capability. This makes the door heavier yet.

 

A heavier door will also require that the door hinge also needs to be re-examined. The a-pillar will also need to be strengthened, and possibly the firewall may need a change in design. Again, more weight, more stiffness, and possibly worse NVH.

 

Then there's the roof. It would be possible to leave the roof styling as it is, but some here would want more. A new roof design would affect the structural composition of the rear fender and trunk sections of the frame. This may or may not affect stiffness, weight, or NVH based on the design of the roof.

 

And, of course, any changes to the structure of the car will also require new crash tests.

 

Notice that I've kept the full b-pillar. Forget a hardtop as that will severely weaken the side-impact protection.

 

You will also need new interior pieces and new window glass. The door trim and glass needs to be longer, and the rear side panels need to be shorter. The rear deck panel design will depend on the roof design. You may also need a new header panel, even if the existing roof design remains.

 

Now all these changes in weight and stiffness will also have an effect on suspension. If the weight goes up, you will need to change to stiffer springs, and the shocks will need to be adjusted accordingly. And tested. This assumes that the existing bearings and suspension arms will handle the new weight.

 

This all assumes that Hermosillo (and all suppliers) can already accommodate the variations in the structure and that no changes to the line are required.

 

When you've done all this, you'll discover that you've done about 75% of the work required in creating an all-new vehicle. It isn't as simple as just punching a larger hole in the side. My guess is that there will not be a coupe version of the Fusion on CD3. Maybe Ford will work on it for the next one.

We can only hope, Their is a defined preference towards coupes with the next generation of buyers. Whether or not they do and have the money to, many want Lambo doors in their list of mods and will buy because it is possible with a coupe! The next generation is all about options and personalization. Just look at many of their MYSPACE pages, I bet you can't find one account that has not been personalized by a user under 30 years old! Look at the sales of ring tones. Look at the popularity body kits, how many have you seen around town unfinished? It's almost a symbol of progress and self know how to drive them for a period unpainted (a work in progress). Look at the popularity of the Scion economy cars, custom, custom, custom!!!!!

[J-150]

The Flex, has a name that my wife will not get past " sounds like an aerobic class-bust a move "

 

 

Acadia = area of New Brunswick Canada. Famous for England kicking out the French natives during the 1800s who later settled in New Orleans.

 

Highlander = hairy Scot that wears a dress and throws telephone poles while eating a sheeps stomach bag filled with oatmeal

 

 

Caravan = a bunch of hippies driving VW buses to follow an over-the-hill band around the country instead of having a job

 

Odyssey = a really old Greek book about a guy that steals another guys wife and ends with a genocide

 

Probe = no explanation needed.

 

The auto world is full of dumbass names that have bad underlying tones. Tell your wife to get over it.

[bravestar]

Acadia = area of New Brunswick Canada. Famous for England kicking out the French natives during the 1800s who later settled in New Orleans.

 

Highlander = hairy Scot that wears a dress and throws telephone poles while eating a sheeps stomach bag filled with oatmeal

Caravan = a bunch of hippies driving VW buses to follow an over-the-hill band around the country instead of having a job

 

Odyssey = a really old Greek book about a guy that steals another guys wife and ends with a genocide

 

Probe = no explanation needed.

 

The auto world is full of dumbass names that have bad underlying tones. Tell your wife to get over it.

 

Way to go J-150....bring up a post from Sept and add...what?

[J-150]

Way to go J-150....bring up a post from Sept and add...what?

 

 

 

the topic is current.

 

Someone else revived it.

 

So, what did you add? That your wife is a twit?

[bravestar]

the topic is current.

 

Someone else revived it.

 

So, what did you add? That your wife is a twit?

 

No that you are a dumb ass that revives old quotes.