Japanese flooding the US with cheap imports

[kevinb120]

I see that paranoia and cynicism is migrating over to this discussion forum as well....

 

 

what are you paranoid about?? Our governmental leaders are for sale to the highest bidder, its a fact plain and simple, if not THE highest bidder in the first place. Vice president's pay is $225K a year salary, Chaney makes a few bucks more then that. Heck, Haliburton charges the government $27 per paper plate per serving per soldier, not to mention they virtually own and operate everything that moves in Iraq. Then again, Haliburton must of been the best choice for the job with maximum efficiency of the American tax dollar, since there is no reason to waste our hard working civilians money....

 

Hillary makes $162k per year as a Senator, which she could make in two speaking engagements. She must be doing the job because she cares so much about New Yorkers Just like our original politicians after declaring independence. They were successfully people that had to be virtually dragged to Washington for civil service back in the 19th century. Becoming a Senator/Congressman now is a guaranteed quick trip to multi-millionaire lane, hell, you can spend more then 50 years there if you feel like it, nobody's going to force you to retire like any other political office would require. The senate would have to pass a law for that first...

 

I would bet it costs Toyota less to build cars here then it does Ford in Mexico. When legacy costs or operating costs become $1 too much for the perceived value to the Japanese companies, the factories will simply close. Pick a place where new jobs would be a godsend to a congressman's career, tip the waiter, and set up shop for bargain basement prices, with a lot of it on the US taxpayer's tab. Hell if they play it right they can run enough US autoworkers and suppliers out of work they have all kinds of new desperate politicians dying to make a deal for a shiny new Toyota factory. Cheap, trained work force....And save on shipping to boot! Workers are cheaper, land is dirt cheap, no shipping and enjoy the profit! Who cares if the US dealers give them away in price wars at dealerships, they still make a killing.

Edited October 1, 2007 by kevinb120

[mettech]

That's awesome! I do same thing for work on my modest home. I call a contractor for a quote, and tell him not to bother showing up if he is driving a Japanese truck. I will only give the business to folks who drive American vehicles.

 

My reason for this is simple: I afford them the opportunity to make a living by working on my house, and paying them a fair price. I expect them to afford other Americans to the opportunity to make a living with the money I am giving them.

 

Some people are really freaked out by this!

 

Hey, the Americans in Indiana and Texas (Toyota trucks) and in Mississippi (Nissan trucks) and their surrounding communities use the money they earn and it helps afford other Americans a living too.

 

The Toyota and Nissan trucks provide for more Americans than the Fusion does. :shades:

 

An American working, is an American working, no matter what company they work for.

[kevinb120]

American working is an American working. They're COUNTING on that feeling. And I am sure its amusing to them as well that US companies can't afford to make cars here yet they can do it at a discount. The United States is Japan's Mexico.

Edited October 1, 2007 by kevinb120

[suv_guy_19]

Hey, the Americans in Indiana and Texas (Toyota trucks) and in Mississippi (Nissan trucks) and their surrounding communities use the money they earn and it helps afford other Americans a living too.

 

The Toyota and Nissan trucks provide for more Americans than the Fusion does. :shades:

 

An American working, is an American working, no matter what company they work for.

 

 

This may get me killed or otherwise injured, but I agree with you 100%.

[suv_guy_19]

what are you paranoid about?? Our governmental leaders are for sale to the highest bidder, its a fact plain and simple, if not THE highest bidder in the first place. Vice president's pay is $225K a year salary, Chaney makes a few bucks more then that. Heck, Haliburton charges the government $27 per paper plate per serving per soldier, not to mention they virtually own and operate everything that moves in Iraq. Then again, Haliburton must of been the best choice for the job with maximum efficiency of the American tax dollar, since there is no reason to waste our hard working civilians money....

 

Hillary makes $162k per year as a Senator, which she could make in two speaking engagements. She must be doing the job because she cares so much about New Yorkers Just like our original politicians after declaring independence. They were successfully people that had to be virtually dragged to Washington for civil service back in the 19th century. Becoming a Senator/Congressman now is a guaranteed quick trip to multi-millionaire lane, hell, you can spend more then 50 years there if you feel like it, nobody's going to force you to retire like any other political office would require. The senate would have to pass a law for that first...

 

I would bet it costs Toyota less to build cars here then it does Ford in Mexico. When legacy costs or operating costs become $1 too much for the perceived value to the Japanese companies, the factories will simply close. Pick a place where new jobs would be a godsend to a congressman's career, tip the waiter, and set up shop for bargain basement prices, with a lot of it on the US taxpayer's tab. Hell if they play it right they can run enough US autoworkers and suppliers out of work they have all kinds of new desperate politicians dying to make a deal for a shiny new Toyota factory. Cheap, trained work force....And save on shipping to boot! Workers are cheaper, land is dirt cheap, no shipping and enjoy the profit! Who cares if the US dealers give them away in price wars at dealerships, they still make a killing.

 

 

Right, they're all self serving and have no care for the people. The dishonest politicians are the minority, not the majority, and I'm sorry more people can't look at things objectively and see that.

[kevinb120]

The 'minority' that writes every single law and spends every single tax dollar of the 'majority' that is.

[suv_guy_19]

The 'minority' that writes every single law and spends every single tax dollar of the 'majority' that is.

 

Ok, you can think what you wish...but I certainly won't agree with you.

[kevinb120]

This may get me killed or otherwise injured, but I agree with you 100%.

 

 

No it doesn't make me angry or feel disdain in any way. There's no surprise whatsoever that you agree with it.

[NickF1011]

Do you have any idea what a C1 Focus would cost here? Nobody would buy the damn thing.

 

Yes, since I'm sure the average wages in countries like China, Mexico, and Brazil are all so much higher than the US that makes the C1 affordable there. :rolleyes:

 

This has been beaten to death though, so I won't go any further....

[Ralph Greene]

Do you also tell folks not to show up for work driving Fusions and Milan's from Mexico, or Crown Vics from Canada?

 

At least the Toyota and Nissan trucks were screwed together by US workers. BTW....does Ford and GM source all the parts from the US for those "American made" vehicles.

 

I find this whole idea about buying American a bunch of nonsense, promoted by folks who don't understand how economics works. Who don't understand that Ford and GM are also International companies, just like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. They source parts, manufacture, and sell all over the world. They are all Global companies.

 

Our economy works that way. Global commerce is good for the US. We gain far more jobs than we lose. It's just that auto manufacturing has become a fairly simple thing to do, so just like Econ 101 says, it migrates to low cost production countries. It's tough if you are in auto production, but that's just how it is.

[NickF1011]

Do you also tell folks not to show up for work driving Fusions and Milan's from Mexico, or Crown Vics from Canada?

 

At least the Toyota and Nissan trucks were screwed together by US workers. BTW....does Ford and GM source all the parts from the US for those "American made" vehicles.

 

I find this whole idea about buying American a bunch of nonsense, promoted by folks who don't understand how economics works. Who don't understand that Ford and GM are also International companies, just like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. They source parts, manufacture, and sell all over the world. They are all Global companies.

 

Our economy works that way. Global commerce is good for the US. We gain far more jobs than we lose. It's just that auto manufacturing has become a fairly simple thing to do, so just like Econ 101 says, it migrates to low cost production countries. It's tough if you are in auto production, but that's just how it is.

 

What you say makes a lot of sense, but there is also still the aspect of where the profits end up going. Corporations pay taxes as well. We are losing a lot of tax revenue to foreign-owned companies taking money out of our economy.

 

I do agree that the manufacturing aspect of automaking is bound to eventually leave the US almost entirely as the economy continues to mature though.

[suv_guy_19]

What you say makes a lot of sense, but there is also still the aspect of where the profits end up going. Corporations pay taxes as well. We are losing a lot of tax revenue to foreign-owned companies taking money out of our economy.

 

I do agree that the manufacturing aspect of automaking is bound to eventually leave the US almost entirely as the economy continues to mature though.

 

 

The truth is though, a great deal of countries lose money this way, not just the US.

[BlackHorse]

Do you also tell folks not to show up for work driving Fusions and Milan's from Mexico, or Crown Vics from Canada?

 

At least the Toyota and Nissan trucks were screwed together by US workers. BTW....does Ford and GM source all the parts from the US for those "American made" vehicles.

 

I find this whole idea about buying American a bunch of nonsense, promoted by folks who don't understand how economics works. Who don't understand that Ford and GM are also International companies, just like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. They source parts, manufacture, and sell all over the world. They are all Global companies.

 

Our economy works that way. Global commerce is good for the US. We gain far more jobs than we lose. It's just that auto manufacturing has become a fairly simple thing to do, so just like Econ 101 says, it migrates to low cost production countries. It's tough if you are in auto production, but that's just how it is.

 

I don't think it's that the guys here don't understand global economics, even if only on a rudimentary scale. I think it's just that Americans look around their homes and their everyday lives and they see that so very much of what we own is made somewhere else. Everything from clothes to dishes in the cabinet. They just get tired of seeing "made in china" on every damn thing they own. They understand that all of those "made in china" labels add up to a lot of US dollars leaving our shores. So when they can, they buy American made products and if you can buy a big ticket item like a car that is made here, that's a good thing. It's good for our country, it keeps Americans on their jobs and it's good for our economy. I don't see anything wrong with making it a point to buy American. You can bet that in plenty of other countries they make it a point to buy their own national products.

[NickF1011]

The truth is though, a great deal of countries lose money this way, not just the US.

 

True...I bet that on a percentage basis of lost tax revenue to foreign companies, the US isn't even near the top of the list either.

[mettech]

What you say makes a lot of sense, but there is also still the aspect of where the profits end up going. Corporations pay taxes as well. We are losing a lot of tax revenue to foreign-owned companies taking money out of our economy.

 

I do agree that the manufacturing aspect of automaking is bound to eventually leave the US almost entirely as the economy continues to mature though.

 

Wonder how much Japan losses with Toyota here in the U.S.?

 

:reading:

 

At the rate Toyota is sell cars here, Japan will be bankrupt in a few years.

Edited October 1, 2007 by mettech

[suv_guy_19]

True...I bet that on a percentage basis of lost tax revenue to foreign companies, the US isn't even near the top of the list either.

 

 

Yes, for example, Canada exports mostly raw material, and misses things at almost every other point along the line.

[NickF1011]

Wounder how much Japan losses with Toyota here in the U.S.?

 

:reading:

 

At the rate Toyota is sell cars here, Japan will be bankrupt in a few years.

 

Japan's government sees plenty of reward in taxing Toyota's profits when they come back to be deposited in the corporate coffers. That's probably why they have little problem with going out of their way to protect them with things like market restrictions and currency manipulation.

Edited October 1, 2007 by NickF1011

[mettech]

Japan's government sees plenty of reward in taxing Toyota's profits when they come back to be deposited in the corporate coffers. That's probably why they have little problem with going out of their way to protect them with things like market restrictions and currency manipulation.

 

Again, that's not the problem. The dollar is falling, but sales aren't increasing.

 

If Americans are buying more Toyota products here, why do you think the Japanese consumer would buy from the Big 3 over there?

 

It's all about the products that the consumer wants. And it appears that the consumers are turning away from the Big 3 car line-ups for now.

[Ralph Greene]

What you say makes a lot of sense, but there is also still the aspect of where the profits end up going. Corporations pay taxes as well. We are losing a lot of tax revenue to foreign-owned companies taking money out of our economy.

 

I do agree that the manufacturing aspect of automaking is bound to eventually leave the US almost entirely as the economy continues to mature though.

 

As far as I know, Honda of North America is a US company. They pay taxes to the US. For sure they pay the SS taxes from workers to the US treasury. For sure they pay real estate and all local taxes. All their US workers pay local, state, and federal taxes. All the dealerships pay local, State, and US taxes, as well as the dealership pays corporate profit taxes. They have to comply with all US tax laws.

 

How much Federal tax does GM, Ford, and Chrysler pay? But their workers and their dealerships pay local, state, andf Fed taxes.

 

After taxes, profits ultimately go back to shareholders, one way or another. I know that more shares of Honda and Toyota are owned by non Japanese than by Japanese. Anyone on this forum can own shares of your favorite auto company, and show your support that way. It's a fairly complicated issue to discuss, beyond the scope of this forum. But I believe it's important to dispel the myth that somehow a company like Ford is an "American" company, with their interest and loyalty only to the US consumers and workers. They play on a world stage, and make their economic decisions accordingly, and we, as consumers, should also.

 

As you can tell from my sig, I attempt to buy Ford whenever I can, but I feel no guilt if my next car comes from someone else. I want a diesel car, for example, and maybe it can't come from Ford or GM.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Ralph Greene

[bri719]

The article is written by:

Mustafa Mohatarem, Ph.D., Chief Economist, General Motors

 

I'm sure it's not written with a bias slant. :shades:

The price of the U.S. Dollar is drooping. Why isn't the Big 3 sales increasing proportionally?

 

 

this is actually an easy one. sure a dropping dollar helps U.S. exports, but we are not exporting U.S. build autos in any signifcant numbers, so the effects in helping the Big 3 are minimal. and the relative strength of the dollar dropping does not help move domestic product. true recent price gains vs. the Japanese and Euros due to this are there, but when you assume there was already a $2000 - 3000 price advantage coming from overseas on every vehicle, that gap hasn't completely gone away.

 

American cars have not been historically cheaper than any imports (with some rare exceptions i.e. when everyone suddenly stopped buying large SUVs due to a huge rise in gas prices and automakers+dealers were forced to slash prices $5000-10000 off sticker), so I am not completely sure where you get this idea... you can (partially) thank labor costs for that, but price manipulation by Japan also has something to do with it.

[Furious1Auto]

In the USA, the retail selling of gasoline is a very low margin business. Most gas stations go broke if all they sell is gasoline, which is why most now sell groceries and about everything else.

 

Gasoline currently fluctuates in price on the commodities markets for around $2.00 per gallon. Local and Federal taxes are about .65, not very much. So you can see the retail profit per gallon is very small.

 

It's true other countries have a very high gas tax, and that makes a lot of sense to me. You have to get the revenue to run the country from somewhere, so why not tax the people who need and tear up the roads the most money? Also a higher gas tax will/can influence consumption, driving habits, and car buying habits, things maybe government has to do, because consumers won't. For those who cry too much intervention, what ideas do you have to wean us off super large vehicles and fossle fuels?

 

I would be in favor of immediately raising the US gas tax .50 (if it was earmarked for transportation needs and not general revenue fund) . I also bet you within a very short time, we would all figure out how it doesn't cost us any extra money. It would change our driving and car buying habits, and would be a begining to help us divorce ourselves from foreign energy sources. Some of you are very vocal about keeping US dollars here, so why would you not favor this idea?

 

Then maybe eventually our car companies would begin making cars we want to buy.

The profit margin exist only to the refineries!

[BlackHorse]

In the USA, the retail selling of gasoline is a very low margin business. Most gas stations go broke if all they sell is gasoline, which is why most now sell groceries and about everything else.

 

Gasoline currently fluctuates in price on the commodities markets for around $2.00 per gallon. Local and Federal taxes are about .65, not very much. So you can see the retail profit per gallon is very small.

 

It's true other countries have a very high gas tax, and that makes a lot of sense to me. You have to get the revenue to run the country from somewhere, so why not tax the people who need and tear up the roads the most money? Also a higher gas tax will/can influence consumption, driving habits, and car buying habits, things maybe government has to do, because consumers won't. For those who cry too much intervention, what ideas do you have to wean us off super large vehicles and fossle fuels?

 

I would be in favor of immediately raising the US gas tax .50 (if it was earmarked for transportation needs and not general revenue fund) . I also bet you within a very short time, we would all figure out how it doesn't cost us any extra money. It would change our driving and car buying habits, and would be a begining to help us divorce ourselves from foreign energy sources. Some of you are very vocal about keeping US dollars here, so why would you not favor this idea?

 

Then maybe eventually our car companies would begin making cars we want to buy.

 

Wow, is there a special place where they brainwash and turn out morons like you? If there is tell me where it's at so I can blow it the hell up. (By the way that's just sarcasm so don't worry Ralph I'm not out to blow anything up) I mean I hate to be so critical and insulting but really, you're a moron. The government has get the revenue to run the country from somewhere? Did you really just spew that garbage? I guess it's not enough that roughly 50% of the average American's income already ends up in the hands of the government. That's not enough to run the country? How much is enough? 80% of what we make? 90%? All of it? We are already practically slaves to a government that has so vastly overstepped the bounds and parameters to which it was orginally supposed to keep itself in that frankly our founding fathers would have already conducted an open revolt.

 

High gas tax makes a lot of sense to you? Why, you like it that your government can control how much you move and what you can drive? I don't need my government deciding what I need to drive for me. I don't need them to punish me by means of undue tax because they think they have the right to tell me where to drive, what to drive and when to drive. Like it or not that automobile is a necessary evil of modern life. In most places in the country you must have one to survive. I don't need my government penalizing me for that. I need them to stay the hell out of my life is what I need.

 

If you think we drive super large vehicles now Ralph, clearly you were not around before the 1980's. A fullsize sedan now would have been considered a compact car 30 years ago. Do you think Americans get a twinkle in their eye and chuckle a bit at the thought of driving a car that gets below 20 mpg around town? What that just makes our fuckin day right? No moron. If car companies would make cars that got better mileage and still offered the room we wanted we would be more than happy to buy them. In truth they have come a hell of a long way in the last 20 years in that regard. So why don't you just keep your mouth shut about things you know nothing about and quit being so eager to be some stooge of a slave to your government. Try being a free man. I know it's scary, but hell you have to grow up some time.

Edited October 2, 2007 by BlackHorse

[Ralph Greene]

The reason a lot of us are in favor of a higher fed gas tax is because we can't think of a better way to force Americans to use less fuel. For the sake of our economy and National security we must eventually divorce ourselves from foreigh oil.

 

Come up with a better idea. BTw I think you would adjust quickly to higher gas taxes.

[mettech]

Wow, is there a special place where they brainwash and turn out morons like you? If there is tell me where it's at so I can blow it the hell up. (By the way that's just sarcasm so don't worry Ralph I'm not out to blow anything up) I mean I hate to be so critical and insulting but really, you're a moron. The government has get the revenue to run the country from somewhere? Did you really just spew that garbage? I guess it's not enough that roughly 50% of the average American's income already ends up in the hands of the government. That's not enough to run the country? How much is enough? 80% of what we make? 90%? All of it? We are already practically slaves to a government that has so vastly overstepped the bounds and parameters to which it was orginally supposed to keep itself in that frankly our founding fathers would have already conducted an open revolt.

 

High gas tax makes a lot of sense to you? Why, you like it that your government can control how much you move and what you can drive? I don't need my government deciding what I need to drive for me. I don't need them to punish me by means of undue tax because they think they have the right to tell me where to drive, what to drive and when to drive. Like it or not that automobile is a necessary evil of modern life. In most places in the country you must have one to survive. I don't need my government penalizing me for that. I need them to stay the hell out of my life is what I need.

 

If you think we drive super large vehicles now Ralph, clearly you were not around before the 1980's. A fullsize sedan now would have been considered a compact car 30 years ago. Do you think Americans get a twinkle in their eye and chuckle a bit at the thought of driving a car that gets below 20 mpg around town? What that just makes our fuckin day right? No moron. If car companies would make cars that got better mileage and still offered the room we wanted we would be more than happy to buy them. In truth they have come a hell of a long way in the last 20 years in that regard. So why don't you just keep your mouth shut about things you know nothing about and quit being so eager to be some stooge of a slave to your government. Try being a free man. I know it's scary, but hell you have to grow up some time.

 

Blackhorse:

 

You have my support to become the next United States Department of Energy (DOE) Secretary!! :shades:

 

Straight talk like that would help the Big 3 with exports into the Europe and Asian markets were they have the high gas tax. If you were to explain your hypothesis to the Asian and European consumer like you did here, they would want to buy every SUV that the Big 3 produces.

 

"...If car companies would make cars that got better mileage and still offered the room we wanted we would be more than happy to buy them..."

 

How much room a car has that makes a person comfortable is somewhat subjective. However, it is my understanding that some car companies do make cars that get better mileage than the 20 MPG you noted. :reading:

 

You are one of the most insightfully writers that post here. Please don't stop posting.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Do you also tell folks not to show up for work driving Fusions and Milan's from Mexico, or Crown Vics from Canada?

 

At least the Toyota and Nissan trucks were screwed together by US workers. BTW....does Ford and GM source all the parts from the US for those "American made" vehicles.

 

I find this whole idea about buying American a bunch of nonsense, promoted by folks who don't understand how economics works. Who don't understand that Ford and GM are also International companies, just like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. They source parts, manufacture, and sell all over the world. They are all Global companies.

 

Our economy works that way. Global commerce is good for the US. We gain far more jobs than we lose. It's just that auto manufacturing has become a fairly simple thing to do, so just like Econ 101 says, it migrates to low cost production countries. It's tough if you are in auto production, but that's just how it is.

 

Sorry to draw you back to the original posting Ralph, huge cheaper imports that are flooding into the US from Japan are getting out of control there is a massive deficit which is getting out of control, which is massive bigger than the 1980's in relative terms, profits are not coming to the US unless you are a Honda or Toyota Dealer, nearly of the profits from building and selling the cars will end back in Nippon PLC.

 

A bit from the original link Ralph

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

Where do you think all these $$$ will be going to Ralph, wake up mate.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds