Japanese flooding the US with cheap imports

[mettech]

Sorry to draw you back to the original posting Ralph, huge cheaper imports that are flooding into the US from Japan are getting out of control there is a massive deficit which is getting out of control, which is massive bigger than the 1980's in relative terms, profits are not coming to the US unless you are a Honda or Toyota Dealer, nearly of the profits from building and selling the cars will end back in Nippon PLC.

 

A bit from the original link Ralph

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

Where do you think all these $$$ will be going to Ralph, wake up mate.

 

"...cheaper imports that are flooding into the US from Japan ..."

 

I have not seen a Japan import that is cheaper then a Big 3 produced vehicle in the same line up class when rebates are added in.

 

Most people that I know that buy an imported Japanese car paid full sticker price or higher for it.

 

It's not the price of the car or truck that is the "primary" issue. If a consumer wants it, they will pay the price.

 

Many dealerships will tack on "market adjustment price" on a car (i.e. PT Cruiser, Mustang) when they are first introduced. Sometimes thousands of dollars over sticker price!! Again, price wasn't the issue. Those people WANTED that car!!!!

 

If people would really want a Big 3 product, they wouldn't care what the price was.

 

Price is not the issue... It's desire and passion!!!

[silvrsvt]

For everyone complaining about trade exports, look at the financial field in the US...they do huge amount of business internationally and there isn't a "hard product" like a car or CD player that counts towards the trade balance, also look at Microsoft..they sell software, and often that software is just a piece of paper with a license on it...same thing applies.

[NickF1011]

Again, that's not the problem. The dollar is falling, but sales aren't increasing.

 

If Americans are buying more Toyota products here, why do you think the Japanese consumer would buy from the Big 3 over there?

 

It's all about the products that the consumer wants. And it appears that the consumers are turning away from the Big 3 car line-ups for now.

 

People don't buy American cars in Japan because they really don't have the option. If more American cars were marketed there, more American cars would be sold there. Sure, it would still be a Japanese-dominated market, but Ford and GM would certainly sell more there than they do now. Almost sounds like Toyota and Honda here in the 1970's, doesn't it?

Edited October 2, 2007 by NickF1011

[Ralph Greene]

Ford has Mazda for the local markets.

[mettech]

Ford has Mazda for the local markets.

 

Good point...

 

At least Ford is ahead of GM and Chrysler in that respect. :happy feet:

[BlackHorse]

The reason a lot of us are in favor of a higher fed gas tax is because we can't think of a better way to force Americans to use less fuel. For the sake of our economy and National security we must eventually divorce ourselves from foreigh oil.

 

Come up with a better idea. BTw I think you would adjust quickly to higher gas taxes.

 

The key here is not forcing the population to drive little econobox death traps Ralph. First of all you should keep in mind that one of the key reasons the cost of gas is so high is the lack of refinement capability in this country. We haven't built a new oil refinery in over 30 years. This is exactly how the oil companies want it because they can blame the sierra club and all the while keep the cost of fuel artifically high by purposely keeping supplies tight.

 

In addition to a new refinery we could tap the massive reserve in Anwar, the colossal reserves of shale oil throughout the midwest that make the Saudi holding look like an oil pan leak under a 78 Nova and then of course there's always coal gasification. Guess which country has the largest coal reserves in the world by the way. Coal to fuel is nothing new, the germans used it throughout world war II and you can make any kind of fuel you want from it, from gas to diesel even aviation grade fuel. We have coal reserves enough to last us for 250 years at present consumption levels. In addition new technologies would allow us to mine and produce fuel from coal in a clean manner. E85 is a scam by ADM. It's not that it's bad fuel, its just that it would drive the cost of a lot of other things up and we could never grow enough to be self sufficient.

 

With respect to getting off of burning carbon based fuels, I'm all for it. These are things we could do in the meantime until new technologies come onto the market to take the place of gasoline and diesel. The real kicker is, it can all be done without some silly oppressive tax on the American people and some thugish government policy that forces people to be good little motorists. Not everybody can get by with a corolla Ralph. Some guys need pickup trucks. Some families need the room that a minivan or SUV offer. These vehicles don't get the greatest mpg, but they are needed. It is wrong to punish the owners of such vehicles. Don't you understand that?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Ford sales sliding 20% again this month, a massive influx of cheaper priced imports are undercutting the big 3. How much longer is will the US goverment do nothing to give the big 3 an helping hand?

 

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

[NickF1011]

Ford sales sliding 20% again this month, a massive influx of cheaper priced imports are undercutting the big 3. How much longer is will the US goverment do nothing to give the big 3 an helping hand?

 

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

 

Hmmm...GM's sales were up 4%. Ford's products just aren't hitting the right note with customers. It's really not any more complicated than that.

[ShockFX]

Hmmm...GM's sales were up 4%. Ford's products just aren't hitting the right note with customers. It's really not any more complicated than that.

 

Agreed, if you need government intervention to succeed you should just fail now and get it over with.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Hmmm...GM's sales were up 4%. Ford's products just aren't hitting the right note with customers. It's really not any more complicated than that.

 

I agree with you Nick, if Ford hit the right note with the right product it would really will be as simple as that, but you have still got to fight countries like the Japans and a France's of this world, when you hear stories of how they employ next to just a few in good inwards and thousands in goods outwards at their docks, and folk are waiting 3 months to get a part through customs, so the Japanese customer goes right off your wonderful new Ford as its stuck in a body shop in waiting parts. Its no wonder Ford sell next to nothing in Japan, it does not matter however good the vehicle might be, if it does have a Japanese badge on the grill then the Japs will automatically think it is automatically inferior to their wonderful Toyota or Honda.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds

[NickF1011]

I agree with you Nick, if Ford hit the right note with the right product it would really will be as simple as that, but you have still got to fight countries like the Japans and a France's of this world, when you hear stories of how they employ next to just a few in good inwards and thousands in goods outwards at their docks, and folk are waiting 3 months to get a part through customs, so the Japanese customer goes right off you wonderful new Ford as its stuck in a body shop in waiting parts. Its no wonder Ford sell next to nothing in Japan, it does not matter however good the vehicle might be, if it does have a Japanese badge on the grill then the Japs will automatically think it is automatically inferior to their wonderful Toyota or Honda.

 

If you say so. Haven't spent much time in Japan, have you? Certain American cars (the desirable ones) are in VERY high demand in Japan. If you can find a Mustang, you are a god there. Cadillacs and Buicks, while rare, also fetch top dollar. The reason American cars aren't eaten up in Japan is 1. the American cars sold there in any volume are basically heaps of crap and 2. the difficulties importing them (and their parts) in the first place like you mentioned.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

If you say so. Haven't spent much time in Japan, have you? Certain American cars (the desirable ones) are in VERY high demand in Japan. If you can find a Mustang, you are a god there. Cadillacs and Buicks, while rare, also fetch top dollar. The reason American cars aren't eaten up in Japan is 1. the American cars sold there in any volume are basically heaps of crap and 2. the difficulties importing them (and their parts) in the first place like you mentioned.

 

You seem like an authority on American cars sold in Japan Nick, how many have made it into Japan's top 50 best sellers chart Nick? None.

[NickF1011]

You seem like an authority on American cars sold in Japan Nick, how many have made it into Japan's top 50 best sellers chart Nick? None.

 

Umm....duh. Did you just forget to learn how to read or are you just arguing for argument's sake?

 

If US automakers were actually PERMITTED to competitively sell the bulk of their vehicles in Japan, you would see SEVERAL crack the Top 50.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Umm....duh. Did you just forget to learn how to read or are you just arguing for argument's sake?

 

If US automakers were actually PERMITTED to competitively sell the bulk of their vehicles in Japan, you would see SEVERAL crack the Top 50.

 

Maybe if they gave the few working in Japans good inwards a bit of overtime they might Nick. What a contrast to floodgates that are opening at US ports at the moment.

 

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

[NickF1011]

Maybe if they gave the few working in Japans good inwards a bit of overtime they might Nick. What a contrast to floodgates that are opening at US ports at the moment.

 

Car, truck and parts imports from Japan, for example, reached $60.2 billion last year, he said, while similar exports to Japan from the United States were a tiny $2.3 billion. He put the Korean imbalance at $12.4 billion versus $751 million.

 

Even if everything else was even, our trade imbalance with Japan would never disappear. Why? The US CONSUMES far more goods than Japan. If we exported $60.2B in goods to Japan, they wouldn't know what to do with it or where to put it. Ditto Korea.

 

We are (good or bad) a society driven by consumption. We don't (and can't) produce enough goods here to satisfy that appetite, so we MUST import a lot of it.

Edited October 2, 2007 by NickF1011

[Ralph Greene]

The key here is not forcing the population to drive little econobox death traps Ralph. First of all you should keep in mind that one of the key reasons the cost of gas is so high is the lack of refinement capability in this country. We haven't built a new oil refinery in over 30 years. This is exactly how the oil companies want it because they can blame the sierra club and all the while keep the cost of fuel artifically high by purposely keeping supplies tight.

 

In addition to a new refinery we could tap the massive reserve in Anwar, the colossal reserves of shale oil throughout the midwest that make the Saudi holding look like an oil pan leak under a 78 Nova and then of course there's always coal gasification. Guess which country has the largest coal reserves in the world by the way. Coal to fuel is nothing new, the germans used it throughout world war II and you can make any kind of fuel you want from it, from gas to diesel even aviation grade fuel. We have coal reserves enough to last us for 250 years at present consumption levels. In addition new technologies would allow us to mine and produce fuel from coal in a clean manner. E85 is a scam by ADM. It's not that it's bad fuel, its just that it would drive the cost of a lot of other things up and we could never grow enough to be self sufficient.

 

With respect to getting off of burning carbon based fuels, I'm all for it. These are things we could do in the meantime until new technologies come onto the market to take the place of gasoline and diesel. The real kicker is, it can all be done without some silly oppressive tax on the American people and some thugish government policy that forces people to be good little motorists. Not everybody can get by with a corolla Ralph. Some guys need pickup trucks. Some families need the room that a minivan or SUV offer. These vehicles don't get the greatest mpg, but they are needed. It is wrong to punish the owners of such vehicles. Don't you understand that?

 

I own stocks in the natural gas business, gasoline refineries, and big oil companies. I know what the profit margins are. A lot of what you say is only "sorta" true. It's true that with the "not in my backyard" attitude of most communities, no new refineries have been permitted in the past 20-30 years. But most, if not all, the existing refineries have been hugely expanded during the past 20-30 years, so refinery output in this country is a lot more than in the past. The real reason we don't have more gasoline refined in this country is because it's not a very profitable business, year in and year out. The growth in the world for energy products in no longer in the US. Big oil is a global business, and they don't care where they make their profits, so they make them where it's easiest to make them. Therefore US refineries, who have to buy their crude on the open markets, or thru commodity futures contracts, have to pay world market prices. Our weakening dollars doesn't help. Point is....there is no conspiracy at work, just world markets, that don't favor us any more. Hurricane's don't help either.

 

There is nothing new about the sources of secondary oils and coal you mention. Everyone knows about what you are saying. But....the profits are just not there to encourage large scale gasoline production. If it was profitable, at current world prices, you can bet it would be done on a large scale. And....the environmentalists will fight most of that tooth and nail. So it's not popular with the politicians. Just the stupid subsidity of growing corn, and I imagine the public is getting that scam about figured out.

 

There is this idea in our country that being wasteful of our natural resources, which each of us own, is somehow a natural God given especially US right. I don't think it is. I also don't think we can get the commuters out of their large vehicles by calling on their sense of responsibility. I think you have to make driving a lot more expensive, one way or another. US folks are not the only ones with large families or work needs. But really.....how many workers in F 250's could get by with Rangers....I bet 75% of them. Why does a people mover 3400 lb vehicle need more than a 2.3 4 banger? Some how the HP wars on people movers needs to stop. Small efficient gas or diesel engines with 6-7 speed transmissions could suffice for probably 90% of car needs.

 

BTW....If fuel use continues to increase in this country, and supply does not, then you get higher and higher prices, forcing folks from their gas guzzlers, and still are hostage to world oil markets, while the Navigators sit in the driveways.

 

As a country, we must ween ourselves off foreign oil. Even our foreign policy is mostly directed toward keeping the oil lanes open. If the middle east didn't have oil, you can bet we wouldn't have troops in IRAQ. Like how many troops do we have in the Sudan, who could really use some help. Also...for the security of our country, we need to keep our dollars at home and solve our energy needs with home solutions. I just think a larger tax on gasoline is about the only thing that would work. I also think, as demand decreases, gas prices will decrease, so I would expect gas prices not to go up much, if at all with a tax increase. A .50 gas tax increase might actually not raise prices at all if it is enough to curb demand. Economists will tell you, it's only when demand or supply changes at the margin, that you get big price swings.

 

Just so you know, until recently I owned an occasional driver 550 RWHP Supercharged Mustang, so I like hi HP cars. But used V6 Explorer and 4 cylinder Honda for a daily driver. I guess you could just say I think folks should just drive the most economical vehicle that gets the job done for them, for most use, and I don't think you will do that on your own.

 

For those who really need work vehicles and larger passenger vehicles, there is no reason they cannot have them. Europe gets by with much smaller vehicles than we use. Sure I know they usually travel shorter distances, but still they get by. The US has used tax policy for many other things in this country generally considered for the common good. I'm done with this.

[BlackHorse]

I own stocks in the natural gas business, gasoline refineries, and big oil companies. I know what the profit margins are. A lot of what you say is only "sorta" true. It's true that with the "not in my backyard" attitude of most communities, no new refineries have been permitted in the past 20-30 years. But most, if not all, the existing refineries have been hugely expanded during the past 20-30 years, so refinery output in this country is a lot more than in the past. The real reason we don't have more gasoline refined in this country is because it's not a very profitable business, year in and year out. The growth in the world for energy products in no longer in the US. Big oil is a global business, and they don't care where they make their profits, so they make them where it's easiest to make them. Therefore US refineries, who have to buy their crude on the open markets, or thru commodity futures contracts, have to pay world market prices. Our weakening dollars doesn't help. Point is....there is no conspiracy at work, just world markets, that don't favor us any more. Hurricane's don't help either.

 

There is nothing new about the sources of secondary oils and coal you mention. Everyone knows about what you are saying. But....the profits are just not there to encourage large scale gasoline production. If it was profitable, at current world prices, you can bet it would be done on a large scale. And....the environmentalists will fight most of that tooth and nail. So it's not popular with the politicians. Just the stupid subsidity of growing corn, and I imagine the public is getting that scam about figured out.

 

There is this idea in our country that being wasteful of our natural resources, which each of us own, is somehow a natural God given especially US right. I don't think it is. I also don't think we can get the commuters out of their large vehicles by calling on their sense of responsibility. I think you have to make driving a lot more expensive, one way or another. US folks are not the only ones with large families or work needs. But really.....how many workers in F 250's could get by with Rangers....I bet 75% of them. Why does a people mover 3400 lb vehicle need more than a 2.3 4 banger? Some how the HP wars on people movers needs to stop. Small efficient gas or diesel engines with 6-7 speed transmissions could suffice for probably 90% of car needs.

 

BTW....If fuel use continues to increase in this country, and supply does not, then you get higher and higher prices, forcing folks from their gas guzzlers, and still are hostage to world oil markets, while the Navigators sit in the driveways.

 

As a country, we must ween ourselves off foreign oil. Even our foreign policy is mostly directed toward keeping the oil lanes open. If the middle east didn't have oil, you can bet we wouldn't have troops in IRAQ. Like how many troops do we have in the Sudan, who could really use some help. Also...for the security of our country, we need to keep our dollars at home and solve our energy needs with home solutions. I just think a larger tax on gasoline is about the only thing that would work. I also think, as demand decreases, gas prices will decrease, so I would expect gas prices not to go up much, if at all with a tax increase. A .50 gas tax increase might actually not raise prices at all if it is enough to curb demand. Economists will tell you, it's only when demand or supply changes at the margin, that you get big price swings.

 

Just so you know, until recently I owned an occasional driver 550 RWHP Supercharged Mustang, so I like hi HP cars. But used V6 Explorer and 4 cylinder Honda for a daily driver. I guess you could just say I think folks should just drive the most economical vehicle that gets the job done for them, for most use, and I don't think you will do that on your own.

 

For those who really need work vehicles and larger passenger vehicles, there is no reason they cannot have them. Europe gets by with much smaller vehicles than we use. Sure I know they usually travel shorter distances, but still they get by. The US has used tax policy for many other things in this country generally considered for the common good. I'm done with this.

 

You just touched on the solution to the problem Ralph, and it wasn't more taxes. Here it is.

 

Why does a people mover 3400 lb vehicle need more than a 2.3 4 banger? Some how the HP wars on people movers needs to stop. Small efficient gas or diesel engines with 6-7 speed transmissions could suffice for probably 90% of car needs.

 

Particularly the diesel part, and or biodiesel. Also I think you'll find that you can put a 2.3 in a large sedan and guess what, it's going to get the same mileage it did before, it will just be hound dog slow.

 

A .50 gas tax increase might actually not raise prices at all if it is enough to curb demand.

 

Then why implement it? Oh yeah, to give the government and even bigger slice of the pie I forgot. Sadly the government makes more money off gasoline sales then the oil companies do. So far the government has done a shitty job with all of that revenue. I don't figure that giving them even more money will change that. Probably make the job they do even shittier.

 

Europe gets by with much smaller vehicles than we use. Sure I know they usually travel shorter distances, but still they get by.

 

Europe is an oppressive shit hole and any desire to be like them is not rational. Europeans live in small cramped houses and drive tiny cars because there is simply not enough room for anything else. They are also ass deep in social classes over there. They resent the hell out of the fact that a rank and file citizen here in the US can drive a vehicle that is large and comfortable, on par with what the most wealthy Europeans enjoy. They figure we don't deserve it and sadly there's a bunch of liberal wack jobs here that agree with them. Also, I don't think people here want to just "get by", do you?

 

And lastly,

There is this idea in our country that being wasteful of our natural resources, which each of us own, is somehow a natural God given especially US right.

 

Shut up, Americans do not think or feel that way about natural resources. The US and its citizens has done just as much, if not more, then any other country in the way of preserving natural resources and protecting the environment.

Edited October 2, 2007 by BlackHorse

[ShockFX]

Shut up, Americans do not think or feel that way about natural resources. The US and its citizens has done just as much, if not more, then any other country in the way of preserving natural resources and protecting the environment.

 

I laughed. Americans are the most wasteful country simply because we can be. It's a fact that the average American uses some ridiculous multiple of resources versus the average European. 50 years ago the average American saved 11% of their income, today that number is negative, we spend more than we make. When our gas prices were $1 a gallon Europe was paying around $3 a gallon. I don't want to get into taxes or politics but the fact is Americans are spoiled. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me in the least, but at least be aware of it.

[BlackHorse]

I laughed. Americans are the most wasteful country simply because we can be. It's a fact that the average American uses some ridiculous multiple of resources versus the average European. 50 years ago the average American saved 11% of their income, today that number is negative, we spend more than we make. When our gas prices were $1 a gallon Europe was paying around $3 a gallon. I don't want to get into taxes or politics but the fact is Americans are spoiled. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't bother me in the least, but at least be aware of it.

 

Even when Europeans were paying $3 a gallon, they were really only paying $1 a gallon like us, the rest of that price tag is taxes. The same is true now. You can laugh if you like but I don't think stereotyping all Americans as energy hogs is even remotely realistic. Europeans use less energy because they live under oppressive governments that force them to live that way. I'm not going to feel sorry for them or figure I need to be like them. You two try to make it sound like Americans go out of their way to waste their money on gasoline and utility bills. I don't know about the rest of you lads but when I leave the house for work I turn everything off and bump the AC up to 79 / 80 because frankly I don't want to waste the money on my utility bill. I think most Americans do the same. When I'm at home, lights are on the room I'm in, that's it. When i leave the room I hit the switch. It's not our fault if these are prices the damned economy forces us to pay.

[ShockFX]

It's not our fault if these are prices the damned economy forces us to pay.

 

This line just invalidated everything else you said. It is our fault what the economy forces us to pay. That's...what...economics...is! And if you don't want to accept that, we voted for the politicians that put the taxes on the gasoline. So in the end, it is completely our fault.

[BlackHorse]

This line just invalidated everything else you said. It is our fault what the economy forces us to pay. That's...what...economics...is! And if you don't want to accept that, we voted for the politicians that put the taxes on the gasoline. So in the end, it is completely our fault.

 

Well I tell you what, the next time you get your power bill and it's higher then you would like it to be, you call your local power company and tell them you aren't going to pay those prices anymore and you want something done about it. They'll say "Yes sir Mister ShockFX, we will do something about that for you." Just don't be surprised when your power gets cut off.

 

Some people voted for the politicians that raised the tax on gas or would like to raise the tax. Some of us didn't because we know how stupid that is.

[ShockFX]

Well I tell you what, the next time you get your power bill and it's higher then you would like it to be, you call your local power company and tell them you aren't going to pay those prices anymore and you want something done about it. They'll say "Yes sir Mister ShockFX, we will do something about that for you." Just don't be surprised when your power gets cut off.

 

Some people voted for the politicians that raised the tax on gas or would like to raise the tax. Some of us didn't because we know how stupid that is.

If Americans on the whole used less power it would cost less. You understand supply and demand right?

 

I'm assuming you know how voting works. So if a politician that raises taxes wins, it means more people voted for him/her. Ergo, the endorsement of higher gas taxes is implicit in elected said politician.

[BlackHorse]

Hey Ralph, just as yet one more among many examples of how our government spends (wastes) our money. Check it out.

Federal employees wasted at least $146 million over a one-year period in business- or first-class airline tickets bought in violation of travel policies, congressional investigators say.

 

You just really gotta love this part.

Investigators found that senior officials often flew business- or first-class because they felt entitled to the perk.

 

Yeah, we need to give this kind of government even more money by means of a gas tax right? Whatever.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299028,00.html

[suv_guy_19]

Hey Ralph, just as yet one more among many examples of how our government spends (wastes) our money. Check it out.

You just really gotta love this part.

Yeah, we need to give this kind of government even more money by means of a gas tax right? Whatever.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299028,00.html

 

 

Oh come now, it sounds like a lot of money and should not have been done, but do you know how small of an amount that is in terms of what the US gov spends....

[BlackHorse]

Oh come now, it sounds like a lot of money and should not have been done, but do you know how small of an amount that is in terms of what the US gov spends....

 

What did I say suv guy? I said one among many examples. This is just one more example of how this government wastes billions, literally, billions of tax dollars every year. Hell everyday. The small amounts like this add up because we have too many people in our government with their entitlement mentality. Sometimes they aren't even small amounts. Sometimes they go right for the throat and waste a few hundred million on a single useless project.

 

By the way this particular small amount would pay for 146 miles of interstate highway.