Was the Edge supposed to go to Atlanta Ass'y ?

[Roadrunner]

As part of concessions to the UAW to put the Fusion in Hermosillo,

 

One of [the concessions] will be the assembly operation in Hapeville, Ga. One of Ford's major concessions in its UAW deal was moving production of two Futura-based sport wagons from Canada to the Atlanta-metro plant.

-- Site Selection Magazine, 1 Dec. 2003, "Back to the Futura: Ford Adding 2,000 Jobs in $1B Mexican Project"

 

It's my understanding that Hapeville is AAP. Was the sport wagon the Edge, also on CD3? Was there to be a Fusion wagon? Or was the Freestyle originally intended to be on CD3?

 

To me this reads like the Edge, perhaps planned for OAC (meaning Freestar was dead anyway), was moved to AAP due to UAW negotiations, and then moved back? It's not like they had any intention of moving the Panthers out of STAP, right? (At the time they couldn't consolidate Panther production to Wixom - the plant was making both Town Cars and DEW98 cars)

_

 

As an aside, it also suggests a second thing: D186 Taurus was already planned for extinction as of 2003, because Five Hundred went to CAP, and a new car was to go to AAP. (Otherwise why retool a plant?)

Edited October 3, 2007 by Roadrunner

[silvrsvt]

I think the confusion arises from the Flex/Fairlane Concept that was originally based on the CD3 then moved the D3 platform.

 

But the interesting thing is....how did Ford go against its concessions it gave to UAW?

 

Also, whats the status of the Wixom plant? I've heard its been warm idled pending some roadwork that needs to be done...

[rkisler]

I think the confusion arises from the Flex/Fairlane Concept that was originally based on the CD3 then moved the D3 platform.

 

But the interesting thing is....how did Ford go against its concessions it gave to UAW?

 

Also, whats the status of the Wixom plant? I've heard its been warm idled pending some roadwork that needs to be done...

 

Atlanta (and Georgia) was in play for a lot of programs post Taurus. You're not going to believe this, but the reference quoted was most probably during the time period that Ford was considering 2 plants of D3. Ford believed that the crossover market was going to take off and the Freestyle was going to be a runaway success. After the D3 condensed to one plant, Atlanta also was considered for Edge/MKX. The Atlanta workforce and quality was excellent. The plant, however, had some plusses and minuses. On the minus side, growth was limited due to its location near Hartsville International Airport; any expansion would have required an expensive body shop on the opposite side of an eight lane expressway. On the plus side (but minus for the workers unfortunately), the land is valuable as it is close to the airport. Ford even examined a greenfield site in Georgia before making the decision to put Edge/MKX and the F/L Flex in Oakville.

 

The union concession was one reason that the Fusion could not have been called Taurus -- from the UAW's perspective, it would have seen it as outsourcing a nameplate. And the 500 couldn't have been called Taurus since the old model was still in production in Atlanta as a filler and sacrificial fleet vehicle. I'm sure that the union was informed all the way, and didn't like the results.

 

As for Wixom, I personally don't think this plant will ever be reopened. It is a total mess. Due to its inefficient operation and high fixed costs, it is unlikely that any car or truck program could be installed in this plant and make money. The body shops are a mess and they crisscross each other -- the plant is a patchwork quilt. All of the vehicle that were produced in this plant are either extinct, or have been moved elsewhere in the case of the Town Car. The only plus is a decent paint shop. So the plant would have to be completely gutted to make use of it. I just don't see it.

[Pioneer]

Ford had high hopes for D3. Believe it or not, an old "future product" chart I found in our main engineering building (from 2003) showed the Taurus/Taurus Wagon (Freestyle) being build in Chicago, while the Sable and Sable wagon (Meta One) was supposed to be built at Atlanta simultaneously .

 

What a difference 4 years and a poor product makes.

[NickF1011]

What a difference 4 years and a poor product makes.

 

I wouldn't really call anything about the Taurus poor except its marketing. Nothing about it screams super-duper success, but there's really no specific downside to the vehicle itself that can possibly explain how poorly it is being accepted by the market.

[silvrsvt]

Ford had high hopes for D3. Believe it or not, an old "future product" chart I found in our main engineering building (from 2003) showed the Taurus/Taurus Wagon (Freestyle) being build in Chicago, while the Sable and Sable wagon (Meta One) was supposed to be built at Atlanta simultaneously .

 

What a difference 4 years and a poor product makes.

 

 

I wonder who the rocket scientist was that thought that was going to happen...DN101 Taurus numbers where artificially inflated from years of fleet sales. Do you realize that with two plants making the Sable and Taurus, they would have to sell like 450K of them a year? Thats just crazy since both those name plates haven't seen sales numbers like that since the early 1990's.

 

It has nothing to do with a poor product (even though the 500 could have been better, it was far from being poor), more like piss poor planing and pie in the sky expectations.

[rkisler]

I wonder who the rocket scientist was that thought that was going to happen...DN101 Taurus numbers where artificially inflated from years of fleet sales. Do you realize that with two plants making the Sable and Taurus, they would have to sell like 450K of them a year? Thats just crazy since both those name plates haven't seen sales numbers like that since the early 1990's.

 

It has nothing to do with a poor product (even though the 500 could have been better, it was far from being poor), more like piss poor planing and pie in the sky expectations.

 

These plans were never put into place; no facility investment was ever spent to put the D3 in Atlanta. So I don't think the planning was "piss poor".

 

But the expectations were high for the D3. Very briefly, a few of the planning assumptions went something like this:

• Fuel prices are going to be going up; customers will be moving from body-on-frame utilities to unibody crossovers. That means that BOF utilities will move to a single plant which will constrain availability which in turn will be filled with unibody crossovers.
  
• When those customers move from SUV's, they are going to expect to get the same attributes they had -- AWD, good view of the road, safety, ability to carry lots of things, etc.
  
• Some of the customers might move from SUV's to sedans. In that case, they also are going to expect to hang on to those things they enjoyed in SUV's. So the sedan also has to incorporate good seating position and maximum space for passengers and luggage.
   
  Now, consider when these assumptions were made -- around 2000-2001. Most everyone would say "spot on" given what's happened with gas prices and the market recently.
   
  There are multiple factors in the lack of success of the 500/Freestyle. Lackluster J Mays design -- not offensive, but not exciting for either product. No 3.5 at launch. Continued presence of familiar and cheap Taurus and CV in the showroom. Success of the Chrysler 300. And I'm sure you could come up with a few more, including the fact that car buyers are not always rational and might choose a Hemi (even with fuel over $3.00 a gallon) as emotion drives a lot of vehicle purchases.
   
  It's a shame. The product is actually quite good. Even the New York Times on Sunday gave it a good review (after spending way too much time talking about the 500 history and the name change).
  

[NickF1011]

• It's a shame. The product is actually quite good. Even the New York Times on Sunday gave it a good review (after spending way too much time talking about the 500 history and the name change).
  

 

I really don't think Taurus will do much until its first full redesign. There needs to be a disconnect between the Taurus and the Five Hundred. As unknown as the Five Hundred was, it's still a solid presence in the mind of the automotive media who immediately want to compare the two. Once a next-gen is out, those comparisons will no longer be made. And I stress again -- the actual existence of a marketing campaign would help tremendously too.

[suv_guy_19]

I really don't think Taurus will do much until its first full redesign. There needs to be a disconnect between the Taurus and the Five Hundred. As unknown as the Five Hundred was, it's still a solid presence in the mind of the automotive media who immediately want to compare the two. Once a next-gen is out, those comparisons will no longer be made. And I stress again -- the actual existence of a marketing campaign would help tremendously too.

 

Changing the C pillar (along with eliminating the third set of windows) would, IMO, make all of the difference.

[CSMJ]

I got that article on my PC

Atlanta was to get the new minivan called a people hauler. Which is the flex.Along with the Fusion (Futura concept).

Atlanta was also to get multiple Lincoln vehicles, it actually says The Lincoln's.

Also Lima is to get a all new V8 engine in 08,09. The 4.4L diesel Id guess. Which will happen.

[rkisler]

I got that article on my PC

Atlanta was to get the new minivan called a people hauler. Which is the flex.Along with the Fusion (Futura concept).

Atlanta was also to get multiple Lincoln vehicles, it actually says The Lincoln's.

Also Lima is to get a all new V8 engine in 08,09. The 4.4L diesel Id guess. Which will happen.

 

Well, this was a point in time and is not so relevant to today.

 

The people hauler is the Taurus X.

 

The multiple Lincoln vehicles in Atlanta along with a new AJ V8 in Lima went down in flames when Lincoln imploded.

[Pioneer]

It has nothing to do with a poor product

 

Everything in this industry has to do with product. If you don't realise that by now, you never will.

[suv_guy_19]

Everything in this industry has to do with product. If you don't realise that by now, you never will.

 

 

No, a great deal in this industry has to do with brand loyalty.

Edited October 3, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[Pioneer]

No, a great deal in this industry has to do with brand loyalty.

 

 

And how do you gain brand loyalty?

 

C'mon. You can say it......

[suv_guy_19]

And how do you gain brand loyalty?

 

C'mon. You can say it......

 

 

Yeah, there WERE bad products. There are BETTER, products now. It also helps if you don't have exploding Pintos, Explorer blowouts, and product catching fire.

[Pioneer]

Yeah, there WERE bad products. There are BETTER, products now. It also helps if you don't have exploding Pintos, Explorer blowouts, and product catching fire.

 

 

See. I knew you could do it.

 

Geez. Is it that bad admitting I'm right?

[NickF1011]

Everything in this industry has to do with product. If you don't realise that by now, you never will.

 

I wouldn't say everything. Look at Jaguar. The new XK is a FANTASTIC product, but it's still selling like complete shit. The XF will likely share the same fate, despite being a world class product. Product is certainly a good chunk of the picture, but brand image and marketing are also big parts of it.

[suv_guy_19]

See. I knew you could do it.

 

Geez. Is it that bad admitting I'm right?

 

Yeah but people keep making it about the current products, something I don't believe.

[Pioneer]

Yeah but people keep making it about the current products, something I don't believe.

 

It's not totally about current products. Some people were burned so bad in the past, they may never come back. But, as Chrysler has shown recently, even some people can overlook that if you have a good product with unique styling.

[silvrsvt]

Everything in this industry has to do with product. If you don't realise that by now, you never will.

 

Yes that product was the DN101 Taurus...thus the poor product. Not mention the shift from cars to SUV's in the early 1990

 

Having expectations of the 500/new Taurus selling 450K units a year was pie in the sky thinking, esp with the old Taurus numbers being dumped wholesale into rental fleets. I should seriously goto the Library and see if I can fleet numbers of the 1990-1995 Taurus, since the info doesn't exist on the internet as far I can find.

[NickF1011]

It's not totally about current products. Some people were burned so bad in the past, they may never come back. But, as Chrysler has shown recently, even some people can overlook that if you have a good product with unique styling.

 

Chrysler has only shown it here and there. Most of their lineup is still floundering. Even Ford has hit the target here and there with things like the Mustang and Edge.

[silvrsvt]

But, as Chrysler has shown recently, even some people can overlook that if you have a good product with unique styling.

 

So thats what they call cheap interiors...unique styling huh?

 

The LX cars have done nothing for Chrysler...they are dated even with the refresh and sales are slipping and the rest of the line up is crap..their mid-sized cars are a joke even vs the "mediocre" Fusion that gets beat up on around here.

 

I seriously wonder how you can stand working for Ford if your so critical of them...

[Pioneer]

Having expectations of the 500/new Taurus selling 450K units a year was pie in the sky thinking

 

 

Not if you have the right product. Look at Honda and Toyota.

 

Bububububu they don't have new nameplates. (Thought I would head off your excuse)

 

Taurus was a new nameplate in '86 for '87. Look those numbers up. By '89, it was on fire selling at record pace. Imagine that. A new nameplate selling like the current offerings of Toyota and Honda within 2 years of launch.

 

We've gone through this before. No need to go through this again since there is no logical way around my argument with my given examples.

[Pioneer]

I seriously wonder how you can stand working for Ford if your so critical of them...

 

Asked and answered. Twice.

[NickF1011]

Not if you have the right product. Look at Honda and Toyota.

 

Bububububu they don't have new nameplates. (Thought I would head off your excuse)

 

Taurus was a new nameplate in '86 for '87. Look those numbers up. By '89, it was on fire selling at record pace. Imagine that. A new nameplate selling like the current offerings of Toyota and Honda within 2 years of launch.

 

We've gone through this before. No need to go through this again since there is no logical way around my argument with my given examples.

 

Imagine that. There were half as many midsize sedans on the market in 1989 than there are today. How many years did it take Honda and Toyota to sell that many Camcords a year? Nobody else is even CLOSE. I guess every other midsize sedan besides the Accord and Camry are failures?