davdog Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future. You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future. You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS WAAAHHHH what a piece of shit! thought YOU said WE would take pay cuts? hey if people dont like it, dont work here! davshitdog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future.You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS Davdog....er ....troll , just go away. You trash us for our wages, bennies, legacy costs. This is obviously the new reality. I dont like it. But I do like that if Ford stabilizes, these future hires will grow into traditional pay and healthcare while active employees. My last response to someone who brings nothing to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future. You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS Dave don't you ever have anything positive to say? Just Smile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrballsonya Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future. You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS When you have virtually no leverage in a negotiation, something has to give. In the case of this contract it maintained the greater good for all current Ford employees. I'm not happy about the two tier Bull Shit, but what else can we do about it? Should we strike because everyone that is used to making a living wage...continues to make a living wage? I've got financial obligations to meet that are based on $30 an hour, a new hire starting at $14 an hour would adjust his lifestyle accordingly. For Christ sake we are competing against Mexicans making $3 an hour and Chinese making $1 an hour. I'm just thankful that the Union was able to get some future product guarantees and not make any wage concessions. If you want to call out the true sell outs..... just look to our government (past and current). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerhero Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Let the new hires eat cake I just want what's best for me, screw the other guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 To keep what you have today you are selling out the workers of the future. You shouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore This WILL come back to hurt you younger workers. Your forefathers would be ashamed of you. SELL-OUTS We did not sell out the younger workers, the rest of America did. We auto workers have always driven cars made by American companies. Americans driving foreign cars sold out the younger work force, and themselves for that matter. But hey, as long as everyone slaps an American flag magnet on their foreign car its all good, and they can even call themselves patriotic! :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyred2 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 We did not sell out the younger workers, the rest of America did. We auto workers have always driven cars made by American companies. Americans driving foreign cars sold out the younger work force, and themselves for that matter. But hey, as long as everyone slaps an American flag magnet on their foreign car its all good, and they can even call themselves patriotic! :wacko: so what happens when those new workers buy foreign cars or have foreign cars from the day they started are you going to blasted them for riding in one? Or tell them to go buy a ford at $14 hr no one wants a focus or taurus since they cant afford the nice high price stuff. They are pitting old employees against the new and the new folks are going to hold it against you all. I understand you say support the company but if they are riding in a nice honda or whatever do you think they are going to trade that car in for a ford? IF they wanted a ford in the first place they would have brought one from the start. i dont own a foreign car but logic suggest if the car is made here and its from here that means its american doesnt matter if the company is foreign. Fusion is made in mexico and its from mexico not usa so please explain that so how can that car be american made when its assemble in mexico? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 so what happens when those new workers buy foreign cars or have foreign cars from the day they started are you going to blasted them for riding in one? Or tell them to go buy a ford at $14 hr no one wants a focus or taurus since they cant afford the nice high price stuff. They are pitting old employees against the new and the new folks are going to hold it against you all. I understand you say support the company but if they are riding in a nice honda or whatever do you think they are going to trade that car in for a ford? IF they wanted a ford in the first place they would have brought one from the start. i dont own a foreign car but logic suggest if the car is made here and its from here that means its american doesnt matter if the company is foreign. Fusion is made in mexico and its from mexico not usa so please explain that so how can that car be american made when its assemble in mexico? First of all I never said that new hires should drive Ford cars. My point is that we, the auto workers are not responsible for this mess!!! We are the ones who have always supported American car companies!! Next, by the way you really need to take a reading comprehension class, I said they should support American companies, I know that not all Ford cars are made on America!!!!!! But if you support American companies, then you help to make the U.S. stronger. If you support Japanese companies, even though some of their cars are assembeled here, then you help to make Japan stronger. The Fusion is not American made and I never said that it was, but it is a product of an American car company, and why not support American companies. If people would have supported American companies all along, then Ford would not have to build cars in Mexico just to compete with foreign rivals. Another thing, no one is going to "blast" any new hire for driving a foreign car. That is another thing that I never said. And by the way people who justify driving foreign because it was assembled in the U.S. are so out of touch with reality that is usually is a waste of time to talk to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
young buck 1520 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 YOU DID SELL OUT! justify it any way you want. just wait till these new hires- driving Kias cause thats all they can afford, drag there keys down the side of your new F-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 So you decided to give up the future members? What if they did that in the past? I know you didn't have a ton of leverage here but you should have gone more closely with what the other 2 gave so you won't be the group singled out in 10 to 15 years, and they will single you out. I have other questions about what you did. Ford has the lowest plant utilization right now right? so they want to get rid of 12000 people AND keep all the plants open? Oh yeah that improves plant utilization. According to people like IMA and Trim the turnover and quality that will come from people making $14 an hour is going to be horrible and now you're going to have those people building cars? At least the other 2 just have them driving forklifts and cleaning up, ford will actually have them building cars. Big loss for you guys in the long run here right? You guys must not be getting all the info because with what you posted here Ford is the big loser here. About the only win they get out of what you’ve stated here is that they get to fund the veba with a lower percentage then the other 2. Where is the stuff that is going to make them more competitive? New hires at a lower rate won’t do it. If they’ll be trying to shed 12000 jobs they won’t be hiring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 any one no why sterling axel an rawsonville are not included in the 20% of two tier workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotlanta Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I normally don't agree with DD, but in this case I do. You say you've always supported American car companies - well, how about supporting the American autoworker that MAKES those cars - ALL of them, new-hires AND veterans?? A few years from now, when the younger workers outnumber the veterans (and FMC's going to make sure that happens as quickly as possible) - they just may vote YOUR benefits out - I mean, equality for everyone, isn't that the union way??? GM and Chrysler have already found out that their contract wasn't what they thought - what makes you think Ford is going to be any different?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD4EMAN Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I know "younger" workers at Batavia and Sharonville driving a lot of cars besides Ford,Iknow a 6 year woman that just bought a chrysler 300, and some of these useless "pos" driving new toyotas. Stay off the senior guys for protecting ourselves and OUR parents and inlaws and uncles that are retired and hope the younger people will do the same, Younger people need to learn as I did and stick together and maybe you will prosper. Strength in unity! But that is just my opinion and what do I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I normally don't agree with DD, but in this case I do. You say you've always supported American car companies - well, how about supporting the American autoworker that MAKES those cars - ALL of them, new-hires AND veterans?? A few years from now, when the younger workers outnumber the veterans (and FMC's going to make sure that happens as quickly as possible) - they just may vote YOUR benefits out - I mean, equality for everyone, isn't that the union way??? GM and Chrysler have already found out that their contract wasn't what they thought - what makes you think Ford is going to be any different?? You are missing my point. This is not about the union. The union made the best deal they could considering that we have to compete with slave wages in other countries. My point has always been that if Americans would have always supported American car companies we would not be having the conversation. If all Americans bouught American products from American companies, there would be no need for a 2 tier wage system. Besides this is happening all over. It is not just the auto industry that is lowering wages for new hires, so stop acting like the UAW invented the idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotlanta Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I know "younger" workers at Batavia and Sharonville driving a lot of cars besides Ford,Iknow a 6 year woman that just bought a chrysler 300, and some of these useless "pos" driving new toyotas. Stay off the senior guys for protecting ourselves and OUR parents and inlaws and uncles that are retired and hope the younger people will do the same, Younger people need to learn as I did and stick together and maybe you will prosper. Strength in unity! But that is just my opinion and what do I know? How are young people suppose to learn to stick together if all they see are the older people looking out for themselves and giving them the shaft?? Age shouldn't matter, loyalty, compassion and empathy should. I AM retired from Ford, and I would give up some of my pension (and it's only 1/3 pension), AND health benefits if it meant the younger workers would be protected. I may be old, but young people usually have small children to take care of, and THEY are our future, and we ARE selling them out, no matter WHAT your excuses about 'parents and inlaws' may be. And you can say it's the auto companies fault, and I agree mostly, but we contribute to it when we sit back in resignation. And I'll wager that your parents, inlaws and uncles that are retired would NEVER have allowed their fear of losing their job to stop them from doing what was right. But hey, as long as YOU'RE protected, that's all that counts, right? And that's just my opinion, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 How are young people suppose to learn to stick together if all they see are the older people looking out for themselves and giving them the shaft?? Age shouldn't matter, loyalty, compassion and empathy should. I AM retired from Ford, and I would give up some of my pension (and it's only 1/3 pension), AND health benefits if it meant the younger workers would be protected. I may be old, but young people usually have small children to take care of, and THEY are our future, and we ARE selling them out, no matter WHAT your excuses about 'parents and inlaws' may be. And you can say it's the auto companies fault, and I agree mostly, but we contribute to it when we sit back in resignation. And I'll wager that your parents, inlaws and uncles that are retired would NEVER have allowed their fear of losing their job to stop them from doing what was right. But hey, as long as YOU'RE protected, that's all that counts, right? And that's just my opinion, too. This younger generation needs to get a clue and start sticking together as a nation. We are all Americans, we should stick together and make out country stronger. Support America and you support yourself and your fellow Americans. Now that is sticking together! Stop selling out America to save a dime! Stop shopping at Walmart, stop buying made in China junk that you do not need, and stop buying foreign cars. That is the best way to teach young people to stick together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 This younger generation needs to get a clue and start sticking together as a nation. We are all Americans, we should stick together and make out country stronger. Support America and you support yourself and your fellow Americans. Now that is sticking together! Stop selling out America to save a dime! Stop shopping at Walmart, stop buying made in China junk that you do not need, and stop buying foreign cars. That is the best way to teach young people to stick together! i agree but there are no more american made cars they all have foreign parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Let the new hires eat cake I just want what's best for me, screw the other guy! That's seems to be a typical mantra some people in these plants don't want to admit to. It's all about themselves and screw everyone else. People will sell out their own fellow workers for that extra overtime and you guys know who they are too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I know "younger" workers at Batavia and Sharonville driving a lot of cars besides Ford,Iknow a 6 year woman that just bought a chrysler 300, and some of these useless "pos" driving new toyotas. Stay off the senior guys for protecting ourselves and OUR parents and inlaws and uncles that are retired and hope the younger people will do the same, Younger people need to learn as I did and stick together and maybe you will prosper. Strength in unity! But that is just my opinion and what do I know? Well you know what to do about the Toyota problem in your plant... Find a solution to the problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bored of Pisteon Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) We did not sell out the younger workers, the rest of America did. We auto workers have always driven cars made by American companies. Americans driving foreign cars sold out the younger work force, and themselves for that matter. But hey, as long as everyone slaps an American flag magnet on their foreign car its all good, and they can even call themselves patriotic! :wacko: Because these people driving these foreign cars truly are not patriotic at all. Whether they are liberal or conservative (objectively observing though: More liberals and left-wing slime drive foreign cars anyway) And what amazes me is these old M/F's that grew up in connection with "The greatest generation" seem to forget what patriotism is all about don't they? Don't any of them remember Pearl Harbor? or has dementia set in? If you ask me. I think most people who would dare drive a foreign car that came from, engineered, and the profits of that purchased vehicle going back to Japan need a history lesson and a bitchslap! :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: Edited November 7, 2007 by Bored of Pisteon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkknight1955 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 so what happens when those new workers buy foreign cars or have foreign cars from the day they started are you going to blasted them for riding in one? Or tell them to go buy a ford at $14 hr no one wants a focus or taurus since they cant afford the nice high price stuff. They are pitting old employees against the new and the new folks are going to hold it against you all. I understand you say support the company but if they are riding in a nice honda or whatever do you think they are going to trade that car in for a ford? IF they wanted a ford in the first place they would have brought one from the start. i dont own a foreign car but logic suggest if the car is made here and its from here that means its american doesnt matter if the company is foreign. Fusion is made in mexico and its from mexico not usa so please explain that so how can that car be american made when its assemble in mexico? Look where the profits go. Fusion put together in Mexico, it's engine built in Broookpark, Ohio. Look to see where the profits go. Fusion profits go to Detroit. Any Jap car built in the US, profits go back to Japan. And if you look around, a lot of older people, some who were in WWII are driving Jap cars. They just don't get it. No different then driving ( or flying ) a Jap Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CD4EMAN Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Look where the profits go.Fusion put together in Mexico, it's engine built in Broookpark, Ohio. Look to see where the profits go. Fusion profits go to Detroit. Any Jap car built in the US, profits go back to Japan. And if you look around, a lot of older people, some who were in WWII are driving Jap cars. They just don't get it. No different then driving ( or flying ) a Jap Zero. How true that is !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperPilot Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Those Kia driving new hires might be grateful that they have a job at Ford at all. Unless they planned on moving to Mexico, which is where Ford's new products were heading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome2theN.W.O. Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 When you have virtually no leverage in a negotiation, something has to give. In the case of this contract it maintained the greater good for all current Ford employees. I'm not happy about the two tier Bull Shit, but what else can we do about it? Should we strike because everyone that is used to making a living wage...continues to make a living wage? I've got financial obligations to meet that are based on $30 an hour, a new hire starting at $14 an hour would adjust his lifestyle accordingly. For Christ sake we are competing against Mexicans making $3 an hour and Chinese making $1 an hour. I'm just thankful that the Union was able to get some future product guarantees and not make any wage concessions. If you want to call out the true sell outs..... just look to our government (past and current). Also Russians who make the focus for Ford who are striking to get $900 a month. I just hope layoffs announced after ratifaction are not as deep as the other big two.And that new hires will advance after we meet the so called 20 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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