MKF "Lincoln Flex" Spy pics

[MarkFive]

repost

Edited January 6, 2008 by MarkFive

[timmm55]

It's a good chop, but I hope the real version looks better than that. Sorry if I offended you.

 

Naw....no offense taken. I hope it looks better too. I spent too much time on it as it is, and never got it right, and just decided to post what I had

[MarkFive]

Maybe after your drink you will go buy a Focus and believe it is a world class Lincoln...

 

I already own a Focus...but I still think the 'chop of the MKR on the new Focus body looks better than the current front end.

[RichardJensen]

Wow. Lots of Lincoln trivia.

 

Yes, there were those abominable late 50s Continental "Marks", however the first Continental carried no Mark designation, and production was quite discontinuous: 1941, 1946-48 (IIRC), 1955-57, 1967-1999, ergo Wikipedia's reference to a Mark 'Series' is somewhat incorrect.

 

There is a difference between a 'series' and a sequence of vehicles that carried increasing digits.

 

It is far more appropriate to speak of the C4, C5, C6, etc. Corvettes than it is to speak of the Mark series, as it has already gone on two multi-year hiatuses (excusing the first hiatus due to WWII).

 

Also the Post War Continental (46-48) was as ugly as a mud fence.

Edited January 6, 2008 by RichardJensen

[suv_guy_19]

Also the Post War Continental (46-48) was as ugly as a mud fence.

 

What would a mud fence look like anyway?

[MarkFive]

Also the Post War Continental (46-48) was as ugly as a mud fence.

 

Strange to think that even Frank Lloyd Wright had a hand in the Lincoln Continental.

 

He did quite get the oval opera window right though.

 

Edited January 6, 2008 by MarkFive

[RichardJensen]

What would a mud fence look like anyway?

 

these days rammed earth or pise de terre construction is chic, but it was once the official means of construction for poor people in cold climates. Similarly, before wire fencing, rammed earth (or mud) fences were used to mark the boundaries of poorer farms, and due to poor preparation of materials, time, etc., they had a tendency to end up rather ratty looking.

[rmc523]

Naw....no offense taken. I hope it looks better too. I spent too much time on it as it is, and never got it right, and just decided to post what I had

 

I understand completely. Sometimes I feel like walking away from a chop, I try not to though.

[timmm55]

Wow. Lots of Lincoln trivia.

 

Yes, there were those abominable late 50s Continental "Marks", however the first Continental carried no Mark designation, and production was quite discontinuous: 1941, 1946-48 (IIRC), 1955-57, 1967-1999, ergo Wikipedia's reference to a Mark 'Series' is somewhat incorrect.

 

There is a difference between a 'series' and a sequence of vehicles that carried increasing digits.

 

It is far more appropriate to speak of the C4, C5, C6, etc. Corvettes than it is to speak of the Mark series, as it has already gone on two multi-year hiatuses (excusing the first hiatus due to WWII).

 

Also the Post War Continental (46-48) was as ugly as a mud fence.

 

The 39/40-41 Continentals are IMHO are the most beautiful and true to Edsel and Bob's original concept. The post WWII cars were nearly identical to the '42. No production during the war of course. They are the only post war cars to be considered true classics. The original Continental (Mark I) is in the Museum of Modern Art http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1940-1941-li...continental.htm

They were called Mark I only in retrospect after the 56 Mark II arrived. Not sure what you mean by "Wikipedia's reference to a Mark 'Series' is somewhat incorrect. There is a difference between a 'series' and a sequence of vehicles that carried increasing digits." The Mark was a series. It had it's starts and stops and different #s to go along with the newer series. But the design was consistent and updated for each generation: premium 2 door coupe and/or convertible, with the best appointments and mechanicals available at the time (the 56/57 were a considerable step above and beyond, largly hand built, than the normal Premier at the time, costly 2X +++. The 68.5 and up were more conventional.). Styling was always distinctively long hood, short deck with a "Continental Spare/bulge". Not being contiguous does not preclude it being a series.

 

It was a bit confusing (OK a LOT!) when the 68.5 Mark III came out, as there was a 58 Mark III already. But Ford (HFII, the company, just about everyone involved) never liked the car and choose to literally ignore them! The 58-60 Mark III, IV and V are not part of the series.

 

I had a 71 Mark III, sold it a few years ago.

[rmc523]

Since we're throwing around the Continental name, how about this for a new Continental (and Town Car, which is old and needs to be redone)?

 

The Continental (done a few days ago) is on top.

The front end incorporates Lincoln's new bow-wave grille, along with a fender vent/Lincoln emblem combo, the rear uses a similar lightbar setup like on the MKX.

I thought about giving it suicide doors, but figured I'd reserve that for an "L" model. This is a short wheelbase model pictured, BTW.

 

I like it (obviously).

There's also a pretty old Town Car sketch of mine on the bottom. (That one's not very good, though, since I did it so long ago.)

BTW, the Continental (top) was done entirely by hand (including wheels). Town Car wheels were done w/ a circle maker.

 

Let me know what you all think.

 

I think a nice size (large) Continental would do well as a flagship model for Lincoln.

Edited January 7, 2008 by rmc523

[Mark B. Morrow]

The Continental was a separate division created for the production of the '56 - '57 Mark II. In '58 the top of the line Lincoln became the Mark III offered in both hartop and convertible. Contrary to the Mark II, the Mark numbers advanced each year from '58 to '60 III, IV and V. The '58-'60 Lincolns were designed by John Najjar and Elwood Engel beginning in 1955. The '58 was the largest unit body car ever built at that time. The '58s were heavily promoted as all new in comparison to the '58 Cadillac which was a carryover dating back in large part to 1953.

 

Unfortunately, the car was a sales disaster. Najjar lost his position as head of Lincoln design and Robert McNamara seriously considered discontinuing Lincoln. (Lincoln lost about $60 Million between '58 and '60 on top of the $250 million lost on the Edsel.) The '61 was a last chance to make the line profitable. The car that became the '61 Continental was originally slated to be the '61 Thunderbird. The '61 lincolns and Thunderbirds shared a great deal of structural parts and were built exclusively at the Wixom, MI Plant.

 

I have a good friend who owns a '58 Mark III convertible. It is pink with a black and white interior and a two tone black/white roof. (Period correct but not the most manly combination) The cars are incredibly sturdy and everything appears to be over-engineered. The convertible shares much of its retractible top mechanical items with the Skyliners and Thunderbirds. The Marks also used the electric rear window fron the Mercury Turnpike Cruiser even on the convertibles.

[RichardJensen]

Not sure what you mean by "Wikipedia's reference to a Mark 'Series' is somewhat incorrect. There is a difference between a 'series' and a sequence of vehicles that carried increasing digits." The Mark was a series.

Series demands, IMO, more continuity than the Marks had--the only Marks that, IMO, could be called a series were the Marks III-VI.

[EMDEE]

My god thats ugly.

Not only is it ugly, it was never considered part of the real Mark series. There was far more elegant Mark IV years later in the early 1970's and that was the one that people meant when they referred to a "Mark IV." The Mark V and VI that followed though were little more trim options and the standard Lincoln 2 dr., a real disappointment. I suppose there is room for debate as to just what constituted the real Mark series, but my own understanding of it was that a real Mark was always a 2 door coupe that had the most powerful Lincoln engine of the era, the newest technology (such as anti-lock brakes and the most advanced air suspension systems) and the highest level of luxury. The crown jewel, as least as far as luxury was concerned, was the Continental Mark II of the mid 50's, which was a conscious effort by one of the Ford family members in power at the time to compete with the likes of Rolls Royce and Bentley. I don't know how it actually compared, but it was indeed priced at about the same level as the base Rolls, proportionally way beyond any Lincoln ever since. Performance wise and dynamically, the peak was the Mark VIII LSC of the 1990's, with its double overhead cam 4.6 aluminum V8, a pretty remarkable suspension system and a very unique and high quality interior design. I sure hope it wasn't the last of the series. If my local county is any example, a very high percentage of the Mark VII and Mark VIIIs are still on the road and well kept with obvious owner pride.

Edited January 7, 2008 by EMDEE

[timmm55]

Series demands, IMO, more continuity than the Marks had--the only Marks that, IMO, could be called a series were the Marks III-VI.

 

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z9506/default.aspx

 

I not so humbly disagree! The original Continental and Mark II are the Mark III-VIII's lineage. Continuous, no, but a series none-the-less. It may be the original retro styled car. The 56 was an update of the 39, the 69 was an update of the 57....echoing the earlier versions, yet still modern for their time.

And it's pretty clean when Lincoln called it the Mark III it was intended to erase the 58 version, showing the true intended lineage and connecting it as a series. That they were years apart isn't an issue, the Mark I and Mark II were separated by 8 years, the Mark II to Mark III by 11.5 years. The reason the Mark continued after the III was it was less exclusive, while still expensive, it wasn't stratospheric in price.

 

It's been 10 years(!) since the last Mark VIII and if they made a forthcoming Mark IX/MK9 (assuming it was some sort of a personal luxury coupe with similar styling cues) the lineage would still continue........

 

My previous Mark VIII

Edited January 7, 2008 by timmm55

[RichardJensen]

The 56 was an update of the 39, the 69 was an update of the 57

How could this possibly be?

 

The '39 was based on a Zephyr, the '56 was its own chassis, and everything from '67 on was related to the Thunderbird (which would at least allow for including the MK VII & VIII as part of the series beginning in '67).

 

IMO, a true series has an identifiable continuity, such as the Corvette or the 911, or even (kind of) the Mustang. The Mk as a RWD coupe is not sufficient to justify 'series' designation per my definitions.

[timmm55]

How could this possibly be?

 

The '39 was based on a Zephyr, the '56 was its own chassis, and everything from '67 on was related to the Thunderbird (which would at least allow for including the MK VII & VIII as part of the series beginning in '67).

 

IMO, a true series has an identifiable continuity, such as the Corvette or the 911, or even (kind of) the Mustang. The Mk as a RWD coupe is not sufficient to justify 'series' designation per my definitions.

 

How could it not be?

 

Chassis obviously change. They either evolve or change entirely. Even the 67-97 T-Bird chassis you mentioned started out as a body on frame and switched to unit body. If you skip 10 years to a new series it will be based on what is current technology........not an old ladder frame.

 

Not to be too esoteric, but a "Mark" as a concept doesn't depend on time....be it months or years. The Thunderbird has come back in many forms (and much less defined in terms of concept) a roadster, 4 passenger personal luxury car, 4 door sedan....and back again. It's now out of production, again.

 

Let's say we put holes in Corvette's production (like the Mark's). Could we identify it as a Corvette if we only had the 53-57 series, the 68-73 series, the 84-90 series and the current one? It would still be a series. Not a continious one, but a series most definitely. The concept (sports 2 passenger roadster, fiberglass body) is essentially the same but changed for each generation.

 

A Mark has to be more than just a RWD coupe btw.

[RichardJensen]

A Mark has to be more than just a RWD coupe btw.

Yeah, well I forgot the word "luxury."

 

 

And no, a Corvette with stops and starts wouldn't be a series. A series requires some strong measure of continuity, stronger than "RWD luxury coupe".

[RichardJensen]

I mean would you call the new Battle Star Galactica a 'continuation' of the original?

 

No. They kept a modicum of plotlines, and basically started from scratch. Just like Lincoln in '56 and '67

[MarkFive]

IMO the late 50's Lincoln's are part of the Mark family...regardless of the fact that they weren't part of the line developed in the mid 50s/late 60s belonging to coupes only (at least until 1980). Someone took the name and slapped it on a car. It now becomes part of the bloodline and history of that car.

 

Is this the same train of thought that prompts Mustang enthusiasts to discount the 70s Mustang IIs?

 

I also think that Lincoln slapping the Zephyr name on the pre-MKZ was a big oversight. Are we as well supposed to imagine that the name Zephyr was not applied to a Mercury coupe/sedan/wagon in the late 70s/early 80s? Up until that point, Zephyr was synonymous with Lincoln.

[timmm55]

Yeah, well I forgot the word "luxury."

And no, a Corvette with stops and starts wouldn't be a series. A series requires some strong measure of continuity, stronger than "RWD luxury coupe".

 

Well, I'll leave it at that then, as you seem to be stuck on time continuum. Everyone else seems to understand the concept of the Mark series.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/mark-my-words/

From the very beginning, these popular and cherished Marks were designed to appeal to connoisseurs of the "personal luxury car"– not NASCAR dads.

 

All of the early Marks were style leaders; the first two are part of The Museum of Modern Art's prestigious permanent collection. Later Marks showcased the very best technology Ford could muster, from air suspension to DOHC, 32-valve V-8s. In fact, the Mark has been the one Ford car that has remained true to Edsel Ford's original vision of a distinct and distinguished model line based on elevated quality, style and performance.

To keep the faith with its fabled Mark-badged ancestors, to add major value to the current Lincoln model range, the new Mark model should have been a coupe or convertible aimed directly at the Cadillac XLR, Lexus SC430 and Mercedes SL. The Mark X concept, based on the Thunderbird platform, showed that an elegant coupe could be created on the existing T-Bird's underpinnings– just as Lincoln had done in the past.

 

Edited out first sentence for author's inaccuracy!

Edited January 8, 2008 by timmm55

[RichardJensen]

You quoted TTAC: That doesn't help your case. The article is full of overblown puffery. "relatively small two-door coupes or convertibles" NO convertibles after 1957, and nothing small after 1967.

[MarkFive]

Well, I'll leave it at that then, as you seem to be stuck on time continuum. Everyone else seems to understand the concept of the Mark series.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/mark-my-words/

[

 

You're quoting TTAC. Its like quoting the National Enquirer...Weekly World News.

 

(Edited for realism).

Edited January 8, 2008 by MarkFive

[suv_guy_19]

You're quoting TTAC. Its like quoting the National Enquirer...Weekly World News.

 

(Edited for realism).

 

I was about to post "hey, I thought I was Richards alter ego," but now that I see that you have changed it to exactly what I was thinking regarding the WWN, then maybe your mine......lol.

Edited January 8, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[MarkFive]

I was about to post "hey, I thought I was Richards alter ego," but now that I see that you have changed it to exactly what I was thinking regarding the WWN, then maybe your mine......lol.

 

Maybe its a Canadian thing. By the way, I've been to Winnipeg through my travels with work....how far is that from you? I stayed in the Fairmont hotel at the corner of Portage and Main in dead winter two years ago (thank goodness someone in Winnipeg had the forsight to design tunnels underground). Talk about cold. Another thing, I've never seen whiteouts like those in Winnipeg. Still....everyone there doesn't flinch. Very nice people in Manitoba!!!! still can't figure out what they see in "Corner Gas."

Edited January 8, 2008 by MarkFive

[timmm55]

You quoted TTAC: That doesn't help your case. The article is full of overblown puffery. "relatively small two-door coupes or convertibles" NO convertibles after 1957, and nothing small after 1967.

 

Even they get the idea of a Mark........that was my only point, note bold/italicized.

Edited January 8, 2008 by timmm55