RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Okay. I like off-topic topics as much as the next guy (provided the next guy likes them as much as I do.) However, I've gotten quite tired of the tendency of threads to devolve into "Europe vs. NA" and "Panthers are great" arguments. Therefore, I'm creating this playpen and a panther playpen. Any topic that veers into these territories will be closed and restarted under its original premise. I'll get both started by saying that I consider discussing Ford NA vs Ford Europe to be idiotic on two grounds: 1) FoE has been as inconsistent over the last 30 years as FNA. 2) Ford Europe & Ford NA are converging engineering etc., ergo comparing merits of platform design is like arguing over the merits of analog TV broadcasts. The differences are going away. Finally, I will state that I am firmly opposed to design being dictated or excessively influenced by Ford Europe's design studios. What works in Europe will not necessarily work in the US, and enthusiasts are NO predictor of the general public's response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) So where's the "Praise Ford NA here" threads, for those who come here and don't think FNA's is gods gift to mankind and Ford can do no wrong? Edited January 17, 2008 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 So where's the "Praise Ford NA here" threads, for those who come here and don't think FNA's is gods gift to mankind and Ford can do no wrong? See my comments in the Panther thread. Arguing about the price of Focuses in different countries erupted in a thread dedicated to the VERVE. Not some Ford NA only product, you twit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) And arguing about the virtues of the Fusion in threads about the MONDEO and other products, in threads about FOE, like you and your friends do constantly out of pride, is any different? "Ruinning" the topíc for the true Ford fans? Once again your hypocrisy shows up. We do need a "Praise Ford NA exclusively here" thread if you're serious about keeping ALL threads "on topic". We also need a "RichardJensen derails yet another thread" topic, for those who are tired to see you derailing thread after thread with your perpetual off topic anecdotes/comments/jokes/etc. Same procedure: Topic will get locked and you'll move your off topic crap there. Edited January 17, 2008 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'll start as I was thinking about this yesterday while driving behind another Corolla. All this talk about how Ford isn't selling their best in the U.S., are we sure other manufacters aren't doing the same thing? Is the European Corolla equivalent better than the U.S. counterpart? Are Honda, Toyota and Nissan and the rest not providing better product here than Europe? I see lots of cars being offered in Europe that aren't offered in the U.S. Just a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I hate Ford of Europe. If I had the choice of being shoved feet first into a wood chipper or driving a Euro Focus ST or Mondeo...I would choose the wood chipper. It is much less painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Okay. I like off-topic topics as much as the next guy (provided the next guy likes them as much as I do.) However, I've gotten quite tired of the tendency of threads to devolve into "Europe vs. NA" and "Panthers are great" arguments. Therefore, I'm creating this playpen and a panther playpen. Any topic that veers into these territories will be closed and restarted under its original premise. I'll get both started by saying that I consider discussing Ford NA vs Ford Europe to be idiotic on two grounds: 1) FoE has been as inconsistent over the last 30 years as FNA. 2) Ford Europe & Ford NA are converging engineering etc., ergo comparing merits of platform design is like arguing over the merits of analog TV broadcasts. The differences are going away. Finally, I will state that I am firmly opposed to design being dictated or excessively influenced by Ford Europe's design studios. What works in Europe will not necessarily work in the US, and enthusiasts are NO predictor of the general public's response. Wow...very mature. You don't like arguments that are Euro Focus vs US Focus and Panthers...and yet YOU go and create ANOTHER thread FOR EACH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Wow...very mature. You don't like arguments that are Euro Focus vs US Focus and Panthers...and yet YOU go and create ANOTHER thread FOR EACH. Take lots of time and think in little words...and maybe figure out why he did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Actually if you were to compare Ford cars with closest internal dimensions they would be: Focus C170 Vs Focus C1 (done to death) Mondeo Vs Taurus (not Fusion) Crown Vic / Grand Marquis Vs Falcon Town Car Vs Fairlane Edited January 17, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Town Car Vs Fairlane Is a Fairlane that big? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Focuses Foci is the plural of Focus. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Is a Fairlane that big? Internally, yes the hip/shoulder room is very close as is front/rear leg room. 6 cylinder versions weighed 1770 kg or 3870 lb - compared with a 4300 lb TC. Externally it's about 2" longer than a Taurus and same width. Trunk space is 21 cuft. It was a cheap extension on the Falcon platform, longer wheelbase, bigger trunk. They couldnt afford to do longer than Falcon rear doors, whole project cost under AUS$100 million. Edited January 17, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) Ford Europe has one killer argument in it's favour. In European survey's Ford appears to be a trusted brand. It's had no major quality problems and for as long as I can remember has been seen as making reliable cars. Now ask people in the USA why they've dropped Ford and gone to Toyota. In Europe Ford is seing strong growth, possibly because of this and strong model lines. In the USA whilst the model lines may not be as strong as possible, Ford does seem to have had an image problem like GM and Chrysler. In essence whilst Ford Europe may have had some topsy turvey years, it hasn't made many bad cars at all. This means Ford isn't wasting millions on marketing campaigns to try and make out that "they've changed". Ford USA on the other hand has in the last few years had problems which is why Trucks like the Tundra are scoring sales. Didn't Ford USA have exploding petrol tanks with the Explorer or some other car, and multi-million dollar law suits filed against it? No such problem in Europe. That is why FOE is better. Oh and one other thing, FOE never neqarly sunk the entire business with stupid Healthcare liabilites. FOE made have had financially bad years, but never has it nearly sunk the entire company. Edited January 17, 2008 by TStag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Look, that may be true but people in the USA are more prone to sue for damages. Aussie Jac Nasser was deamonised and vilified by everyone in the USA but had his audacious plans worked Ford would now be richer than GM and Toyota put together. Ford NA product line up is changing pretty quickly and Ford IS reinventing itself, they just can't do it over night. I can see the seeds of massive change and NA will do better this year because they've stopped bleeding as much red ink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 had his audacious plans worked Ford would now be richer than GM and Toyota put together. Right. Unfortunately, his plans were not good. That's why they didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I could actually get with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Right. Unfortunately, his plans were not good. That's why they didn't work. And symptomatic of the 1980 greed, It was the way he was treated that gets me. Ford Board was all for it - they approved of the plans until they realised it wouldn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 'Tis the nature of most boards.... They're behind you all the way.... Until they're not. Also known as the 'give a man enough rope...' philosophy of management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I could actually get with that... The side profile reminds me of the first Taurus-based Lincoln Continental: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 (edited) I could actually get with that... Thanks, the Aussie market is too small to justify them so production was ceased at Christmas time. 200-300/month is not enough even for a derivative platform. It is possible that a long wheelbase RWD will be built in USA sharing Mustang/Falcon assembly technique and parts, that's our hope for an affordable luxury car. Failing that it down to Lincon MKS with Ecoboost 35. Limo companies meerly half chassis vehicles: Edited January 17, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Ford of Europe has produced some "zingers" in its past. The Scorpio was once a well respected design until they came out with this. Suddenly people didn't buy them much anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 The side profile reminds me of the first Taurus-based Lincoln Continental: More like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 More like this: What year is that Fairlane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 Ford of Europe has produced some "zingers" in its past. The Scorpio was once a well respected design until they came out with this. Suddenly people didn't buy them much anymore... It's a segment that died as well. Now only PSA & Renault sell D class cars under an entry level brand. Ford Europe was on the ropes much of the 90s, and even into the early 00s. Arguably, their losses were worse than Ford NA's on a marketplace basis, as they went from uncontested #1 to #2 or #3 losing something like half to two thirds of their market share. At any rate, Ford seems to have FoE figured out for the nonce; now what is needed is to 1) merge platforms and 2) do what was done right in FoE HERE, which is NOT import stuff from overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFive Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 It's a segment that died as well. Now only PSA & Renault sell D class cars under an entry level brand. Isn't the Mondeo D-class sized now? Anyway, the last car they brought over without changing much was the Contour/Mystique. It did well in Europe, but not so well over here. One thing, the backseat was next to non-existent which didn't seem to upset very many Europeans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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