xstapr Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Not only did the caw preach no concessions for years they always said the uaw was wrong for taking profit sharing and losing their cola now we are freezing or losing our cola for nothing !!raw deal !!!! we havent even seen the local issues yet...it could get worse Local issues.(hahah) With our present plant chairman.(haha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 As a former Windsor employee I can remember well Buzz's 2005 promise of no Ford employee will be out of a job by the contracts end. That came straight from Buzz's mouth, I was there at the ratification meeting. Obviously that was a lie as all the Ontario sites have felt the lay offs. As far as the no two tier wage system, as far as I see, new hires are at 70% for three years, just about to the end of this new contract. I don't see a lot of hope for these guys ever getting to full rate, just another concession for 2011. I'm also alarmed that Windsor hasn't been mentioned, 300 jobs or so are going to Essex (maybe), Essex Aluminum is closing, and the 5.4 from WEP is apparently being phased out for the new BOSS (5.0l whatever), and there aren't any promises of new work mentioned. By 2011 Windsor is going to be a real ghost town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkaboutit Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) Early Tentative Agreement ? We will hear later in the week at the last possible minute that we will all be required to vote on a new agreement this Sunday , those of us who acctually get a chance to hear of this might make it out, most who don't will not. It will be the typical no advanced information to the membership except the nice glossy highlights handed at the door on the way in, as you make your way to find a seat to hear all the hard bargaining and tough talks in a tough time that have been done on your behalf by your bargaining committees. You will be told given the ecconomic climate of the auto industry in Canada, and given the fact that the UAW had sold the farm to make them more competitive that the CAW had no choice but to follow suit but with a Canadian twist. Highlights will read No two tier wage structure - GOOD No VIBA benefit structure - GOOD St. Thomas given an extra year of production to 2011 - GOOD 3 year agreement - GOOD $2200.00 dollar signing bonus - GOOD Buy out package increase 75,000 production / 90,000 trades and a $3500.00 car allowance - Good No wage increases over the life of the agreement - BAD Freeze COLA payments now, and no payments for the first year - BAD New employees will start at 70% for the same work and take 3 years to get to full pay - BAD Loss of 120 hours vacation over all three years -BAD P - COLA frozen for retiree's for a year - BAD $1430.00 cap on Long Term Disability payments per month - BAD Drug co-payment of 10% upto a max of $290.00 per year - BAD $25,000.00 retirement incentive removed - BAD More to be announced as the week goes on I'm sure................................................ As you listen to the different back patters rise in support to this 5 month early agreement ask yourself these questions. Why are we not getting a raise? - weren't we always told a gain to our base rate out wieghed any signing bonus. Will the current $1.36 COLA be rolled into our rate at signing as ussual? Has every Local issue at all locations been addressed? With this early ratification vote they better be. Just a few things for you to think about........... Feel free to print and pass this around.....there wont be anything from the National Union around your plants. Attend the meeting at all costs Edited April 29, 2008 by Thinkaboutit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outhere_i_m Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Subject: CAW Reaches Agreement with Ford on Master Economics Offer http://www.caw.ca/whatwedo/bargaining/big3...io/08_04_28.wav The link above will bring you to the full press interview with Buzz Hargrove If the link doesn't work you can get to the full interview by clicking on the link below http://www.caw.ca/whatwedo/bargaining/big3...uto08/index.asp and scrolling to the last line and clicking April 28, 2008 - CAW Reaches Agreement with Ford on Master Economics Offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) Thinkaboutit has a good point. (It's in the name) Keep your ears to the rails people. If there is a meeting drop everything and get there. (like your children's lives depended on it) Weigh the issues and lets have a full debate on this offer.....then decide where we go from there. Are our backs against the wall? Sure they are! Thanks to all the twats buying foreign. Time for a line in the sand again brothers and sisters, just a matter of where we draw it because the corporations have moved the goal posts again! Ed. Edited April 29, 2008 by Edsel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Loss of a weeks vacation? How many weeks do you guys currently get? I cant imagine giving away one of my two and a half weeks. I get 8 weeks, counting two SPAs. We give up one week each year for 3 years, but we get $3500 plus what we earn in those 3 weeks. Money-wise, we are ahead. Many people sell their holidays anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Not only did the caw preach no concessions for years they always said the uaw was wrong for taking profit sharing and losing their cola now we are freezing or losing our cola for nothing !!raw deal !!!! we havent even seen the local issues yet...it could get worse They didn't lose their COLA, but they have diversions, as we used to have prior to 1984 when we were UAW. New hires have lost COLA in addition to base wages before, so this does not set a precedent. Hopefully, inflation will hold off for a year. It is low right now, but it will take off soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oac bodyboy Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I get 8 weeks, counting two SPAs. We give up one week each year for 3 years, but we get $3500 plus what we earn in those 3 weeks. Money-wise, we are ahead. Many people sell their holidays anyway. DON'T FORGET WE ALSO LOSE OUR VACATION BONUS $1700 FOR 3 YEARS = $5100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stap1520 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 DON'T FORGET WE ALSO LOSE OUR VACATION BONUS $1700 FOR 3 YEARS = $5100 Wasnt sure about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfinger4 Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Windsor's ratification vote is set for this Sunday at the Caboto Club at 6pm http://www.cawlocal200.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) I get 8 weeks, counting two SPAs. We give up one week each year for 3 years, but we get $3500 plus what we earn in those 3 weeks. Money-wise, we are ahead. Many people sell their holidays anyway. There are no more 2-weeks on, 2-weeks off. When you're working 48+ hours a week, money won't be the issue but you sure will miss that week off. And we don't know yet whether that will be a SPA week or a chosen week. Would kind of suck to lose your chosen week and only get stuck with your SPA week off in early January or December. And yes, nobody has mentioned the $1700 vacation bonus that we already get, so assume it's gone. So now we'll work the week and we'll get a week's pay (about $1700 on 48 hours) plus (1/3 of the one-time $3500) $1166 = $2866 . Before we got 40 hours pay (about $1320) plus $1700 every year = $3020 and you've got the week off. Don't seem to be that far ahead to me...seems the opposite is true. The only people that will "lose" money are the production and trades guys that work 7 days; hell, I work all the overtime I can and even I'd rather lose the O/T for the week than lose a week off from this place. Like I said in the other thread -- it can always be worse considering the present economical circumstances -- but we need to see the fine print to see what we're losing and weigh it out. Edited April 29, 2008 by OAC_Sparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanut Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 The $1700 stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngSTAP Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 We need to send a message to our "bargaining committee" loud and clear. By voting NO! Time to go back and actually negotiate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VDTRANSMAN Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I get 8 weeks, counting two SPAs. We give up one week each year for 3 years, but we get $3500 plus what we earn in those 3 weeks. Money-wise, we are ahead. Many people sell their holidays anyway. I get two and a half weeks vacation, one week personal time. Eight weeks plus vacation bonus money? You gotta be shittin me. Next year I finally get up to a full three weeks vacation. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodyman Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I tell you if I was an employee at Oakville I would be pissed about this deal. Ford is desperate with your new launch and now would have been the time to not concede anything and to not lose time off the job which will be very important when you become very busy at work. I am not sure if Oakville workers would have been prepared to go on strike for us in St.Thomas. This was the ultimate time to get what the union needed in terms of all of its Ford facilities. In St.Thomas most feel we were safe until 2011 anyways, so the card the union is using of saving us for another year is questionable. Oakville lost on this deal and hopefully your workers will see that. St. Thomas was not in a position to bargain but Oakville would have been good leverage for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 We need to send a message to our "bargaining committee" loud and clear. By voting NO! Time to go back and actually negotiate! And other then you do the work that mexican labor would do for a quarter of the price what exactly do you have to bargin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I tell you if I was an employee at Oakville I would be pissed about this deal. Ford is desperate with your new launch and now would have been the time to not concede anything and to not lose time off the job which will be very important when you become very busy at work. I am not sure if Oakville workers would have been prepared to go on strike for us in St.Thomas. This was the ultimate time to get what the union needed in terms of all of its Ford facilities. In St.Thomas most feel we were safe until 2011 anyways, so the card the union is using of saving us for another year is questionable. Oakville lost on this deal and hopefully your workers will see that. St. Thomas was not in a position to bargain but Oakville would have been good leverage for us. Good leverage for what? So you can price yourselves out of the auto assembly business? They can take this business down to Mexico for a quarter of the cost, if you don't cut costs somehow then you can hit the want adds in 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstapr Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 We need to send a message to our "bargaining committee" loud and clear. By voting NO! Time to go back and actually negotiate! I'm a NO. (in bold print as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyfromSTAP Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'm a NO. (in bold print as well) I'm definately looking forward to the meeting on Sunday.We need a bunch of answers and I hope everyone that has concerns gets to the mic and let everyone hear them.Only way we can make a good decision is by asking.As some have said remember what happened last contract when we were told to trust the union that our deal would look better in time.We need hard facts this time as the union and company don't have much of my trust.I also understand the limits we are working with so instead of making my mind up now I'll wait to get more info.I think it's silly to say yes or no when we don't know anything yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charly Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'm a NO. (in bold print as well) What the hell are you basing that NO on? At least get the entire package and then make a SEMI informed choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinkaboutit Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Never mind that, lets take a closer look at this tentetive agreement this far................ "No wage increases over the life of the agreement" - Well I never hear the people I work with say they are under paid without a smile on thier faces, and in all reality with the 1.36 cola to roll in right off the bat, thats not a bad little raise if i do say so for the first year, after that normal cola will resume for years 2 and 3. Given the state of the auto industry I can live with that no problem. I would only like to see FORD follow suit by not giving their executives those large bonuses they have been handing out and for that matter to us too. Keep the company alive and give me a place to retire from one day. New employees to start at 70% of the rate and take 3 years to get to full pay - It beats the hell out of the UAW's two tier wage system where new workers will never see the wages we have bargained over the years (unless there a revolution). Ok I'm thinking it so I might as well say it too........the new hires of late (and not all mind you), what a spoiled lot. Walk in the doors and after their 90 days probation become the most non productive workers I've ever seen. "Ford owes me this job", "I'm going to get a restriction", "the supervisor is harrassing me" bla bla bla.......maybe a little growing in period will do them some good and hey if it was up to me I'd make that 90 days 3 years too. (just a personal observation and you can't say it's not true) The loss of 40 hours EAA every year over the 3 years - Does it suck ......yup, Will you die.....nope.... Why not take a SPA week instead, well SPA's keep utility jobs, EAA on Friday's and Mondays can be covered by TPT's. Where can you walk in off the street and get 104 hours vacation plus two SPA weeks in the first year. Drug co-pay of 10% to a max of 250/270/290 yearly - I have been suprised we kept the 35cents for the last 2 contracts to be truthfull, I do feel for the retirees though and I wish they could be left out of it. We have a decent benefit package....seen much worse and some a little better. Cash on the barrel - As I said earlier I hate bonuses, but hey if they won't move on base rates I'll take what I can get. First off a $2,200 dollar signing bonus, second a one time $3,500 dollar payment to help off set the loss of vacation, finally our annuall 1700 dollar holiday bonus. Year one - 2200 + 3500 + 1700 = $7400 dollars Second year $1700 dollars Third year $1700 dollars Total cash before taxes = 10,800 dollars, put it in an RRSP to maximize it , pay off some debt, check yourself into the Betty Ford clinic to get off the OxyContin addiction......whatever you like. Buy out package increase 75,000 production / 90,000 trades and a $3500.00 car allowance - I hope we never have to use this, but it is their incase of permanent job loss, its not a bonus..........I hope it's not a big carrot to make senior members vote on outsourcing good off line jobs So looking at it as a package the ecconomics of making our position viable for future investment is there, will it hurt a little....sure. Kind of like Buckleys...taste like crap but it works Now this is where it gets intresting - Local issues So the frame work for an agreement is already in place, the National has done their jobs. Now our Local bargaining people are left stranded with nothing to hold Ford hostage with. I can imagine what Ford will do at the Local levels, I predict they will reject all or most of our ammendments put in by the membership, and will be out for more destruction in our workplaces. More restrictions on bidding More De classifing Reduce high rate classifications Multi Task Skilled Trades Outsource Our Cleaners Outsource Shipping Outsource all off line jobs Listen to me when I tell you, this is the time for Oakville to hold firm and vote NO to this agreement, we can all take the ecconomic package, but screw with our jobs and make us work 30 years on the assembly line. JUST SAY NO, GIVE YOUR BARGAINING COMMITTEE THE SUPPORT THEY NEED TO HOLD THEM BACK ON THESE ISSUES. MAKE THE NATIONAL SUPPORT OUR BARGAINING COMMITTEES See you all Sunday at the meeting, bring your Union cards, listen to the whole package, the stuff that will really effect you will be at the very end of the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 And other then you do the work that mexican labor would do for a quarter of the price what exactly do you have to bargin with? Look um.......brother? Just because the UAW sold their soul to the Devil, does not mean WE have to. If Ford wants to shut Plants and move jobs, they will. Nothing you or I can do about it. The UAW has been walking back wards for years now and doing so made it very hard to turn around and move forward. Get it through your head! Labour cost's are NOT the issue here. It's Fords loss of market share! Plain and simple! They made their bed, (building SUV's and Monster Trucks, not having a diversified product line as they do in Europe) now they want US to lie in it? You mention Mexican Labour? Try China. That's what their threatening the Mexicans with. If Ford is so poor, why are they throwing their money around? Performance bonuses? Sorry, on the issue of loss of Vacation and Cola alone, I'm saying NO to this hurried up, premature agreement. Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) ".......maybe a little growing in period will do them some good and hey if it was up to me I'd make that 90 days 3 years too. (just a personal observation and you can't say it's not true) " Doing so may make the future NEW hires more bitter toward the Senior Members for agreeing to the language, remembering that in the future negotiations and saying the asshole's on Pension's and the language that goes with it........................ Ed. Edited April 30, 2008 by Edsel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I get two and a half weeks vacation, one week personal time. Eight weeks plus vacation bonus money? You gotta be shittin me. Next year I finally get up to a full three weeks vacation. :rolleyes: I hear that the week that we are losing is the one which we got a couple of contracts ago where we had about 20 hours or so, and the company added enough hours to make 40. The Employment Standards Act would trump any vacation reduction which put you below what that allowed. I don't think they will touch our $1700 bonus. That is a sacred cow. It is the Canadian equivalent of the Americans' profit sharing. Maybe it will be increased, or incorporated into the new bonus that we have been getting for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Please, please, please tell me exactly what this "contact did for Oakville"? Let's see... Drug copay? Doesn't benefit me. I'll be out $250 Lose a SPA week? Hmmm...nope. 500 new hires? Let's see. 163 transferees from Windsor (that seems to help our laid off brothers from Windsor, not us), no guarantee of recall for those laid off Oakville employees that lost their recall rights. The others won't make full rate for nearly 2 years. No COLA adjustments. Doesn't help me. Retirement adjustment. Nope. The products we have and we are getting have been on their way for two years now. The fact that OAC has those products that Ford needs is the only reason that we got this offer and not the cock deep in our asses. Because if you haven't paid attention, the UAW lost at least 3 assembly plants since our last contract, traded their Company benefits for VEBA (yeah, let's see how that works out) and has second tier wage earners that will in the end decide the fate of those who are retired. You do understand that with the exchange rate that even after this contract we still make about 20% more than our UAW counterparts? So until we see the fine print, I think this is as good as it's going to get. The fact that anyone is whining yet must have our UAW brethren rolling their eyes. I'm sure they wish they got this. So vote however you want. Just keep in mind that 1) this isn't OAC's fault and 2) the alternative can be far worse. Sparky you are a wise man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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