LSFan00 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I love hearing this "Lincoln is not a luxury car" bullshit from people who have never owned Lincolns. Ok. I own one now and have owned 1 other. Thanks though. The LS is a nice car, but it ain't exactly a prestigious luxo-mobile. Again, I like Lincolns, but there's no sense in deluding yourself into thinking they are luxury cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Ok. I own one now and have owned 1 other. Thanks though. The LS is a nice car, but it ain't exactly a prestigious luxo-mobile. Again, I like Lincolns, but there's no sense in deluding yourself into thinking they are luxury cars. What is a Luxury car the? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I would think that Volvo and Lincoln would appeal to different people. It would be confusing to the customer to use the Lincoln name on a vehicle designed for Volvo buyers. It would be better for people to go to there favourite dealer and buy the brand within that dealership that matches their needs and personality. Again, we're talking about a Focus-derived Lincoln. Don't confuse yourself with the label on the car too much; the S40 is basically a sport Euro Focus. If BMW can sell the 1-series here, surely Lincoln can sell a nice little car with gas hitting five bucks a gallon. It's not as though the guys shopping 80K-120K Jag/Aston/Lexus/MB/BMW etc. would otherwise be buying a Town Car/MKS if Lincoln DIDN'T sell a compact. And this RWD holy grail is just crap. Hell, they sold the Taurusinental for what, 10 years? We're talking stop-gap here, until Volvo does get a US plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Again, we're talking about a Focus-derived Lincoln. Don't confuse yourself with the label on the car too much; the S40 is basically a sport Euro Focus. If BMW can sell the 1-series here, surely Lincoln can sell a nice little car with gas hitting five bucks a gallon. It's not as though the guys shopping 80K-120K Jag/Aston/Lexus/MB/BMW etc. would otherwise be buying a Town Car/MKS if Lincoln DIDN'T sell a compact. And this RWD holy grail is just crap. Hell, they sold the Taurusinental for what, 10 years? We're talking stop-gap here, until Volvo does get a US plant. IMHO you can sell a "Sports Euro Focus" to a Volvo buyer, but not a Lincoln buyer. It is not big, and not have a soft ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 What is a Luxury car the? A Luxury car is a different thing depending whether you are talking to a Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus, MB or a BMW buyer. They are all Luxury, all have quality in different areas, (Ride v.s. Handling) and appeal to different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battyr Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Again, we're talking about a Focus-derived Lincoln. Don't confuse yourself with the label on the car too much; the S40 is basically a sport Euro Focus. If BMW can sell the 1-series here, surely Lincoln can sell a nice little car with gas hitting five bucks a gallon. It's not as though the guys shopping 80K-120K Jag/Aston/Lexus/MB/BMW etc. would otherwise be buying a Town Car/MKS if Lincoln DIDN'T sell a compact. And this RWD holy grail is just crap. Hell, they sold the Taurusinental for what, 10 years? We're talking stop-gap here, until Volvo does get a US plant. The Taurusinental was a flop. IMO being FWD was part of it. The MKZ can get away with being FWD, but it is also cheaper. The LS was a flop. IMO because it was too small and the engine was too small for the price. It was too much a "Sport Euro" design for the typical Lincoln buyer. Ford needs 2 Luxury brands. One to sell "Euro Sport Luxury". The other to sell "American Luxury". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Here are a few thoughts for Lincolns: Create a new MKS-T based off of the Volvo V70 and V70 XC with a lincoln nose and tail lights. You may be able to go against the Audi, Saab & BMW wagons. Again with Gas still high and I am sure it will be at $3.50 - $4.00 + they need to get customers back into wagons. How about a Lincoln convertible based off the Mustang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 How about a Lincoln convertible based off the Mustang While I think that is a really good idea, and I might even buy one, it does further the problem that Lincolns are simply re-badged Fords and thus Lincolns are no longer luxury vehicles. In other words, Lincolns are nothing more than optioned-out Ford. For example, a MKX is nothing more than an Edge with more standard features and options. A Navigator is an Expedition. An Aviator was an Explorer. GM does it so much better. For example, a Cadillac XLR is more than simply a Corvette with more options and a new nameplate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) While I think that is a really good idea, and I might even buy one, it does further the problem that Lincolns are simply re-badged Fords and thus Lincolns are no longer luxury vehicles. In other words, Lincolns are nothing more than optioned-out Ford. For example, a MKX is nothing more than an Edge with more standard features and options. A Navigator is an Expedition. An Aviator was an Explorer. GM does it so much better. For example, a Cadillac XLR is more than simply a Corvette with more options and a new nameplate. I don't have the software to mark up a Volvo V70 XC to look like a Lincoln, but if someone else does that would be great to get an idea as to what a Lincoln based V70 XC would look like as a Lincoln MKS-T. Edited September 5, 2008 by grimesdr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I don't have the software to mark up a Volvo V70 XC to look like a Lincoln, but if someone else does that would be great to get an idea as to what a Lincoln based V70 XC would look like as a Lincoln MKS-T. Lincoln just like Mercury really was always a rebranded car. In some years you could not tell it, but other years you could. I think its more of how well of a job you do in the rebranding. If you look at any other brand they also do rebranding of their high end cars, so it really becomes a question of how much and how many rebranded cars you do. Look at GM where ever brand has a medium size SUV. To me that is just way to many!!! I would like to see Ford re invent them self's by combining dealerships when they can. Make Lincoln & Volvo the premium dealers then Combine Ford Mercury Mazda. I do think a rebranded Volvo V70 wagon to a Lincoln Wagon could go a long way in getting new customers. Wagons work well for BMW, Mercedes and Audi, so why not a Lincoln? Bottom line is Ford needs to get leaner and cut all the fat off ( a lot of that fat is in both management and some union workers ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WC-MAN Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 A. Lincoln is not a luxury car builder. This is a fantasy of Ford enthusiasts. In reality, they build nice Fords Blasphemy! That's Mercury's job!!!! Historically, Lincoln was considered a luxury car. The question is whether Lincoln can build a car that fulfills the same needs that a Lexus fulfills. So if Lincoln switches from selling "Nice Fords" to "Nice Toyotas", they will suddenly sell Luxury cars? Again, I like Lincolns, but there's no sense in deluding yourself into thinking they are luxury cars. Maybe instead of telling someone they are deluding themselves, you could come up with a list of all of the luxury features Lexus offers that aren't available from Lincoln. A small Lincoln would be stupid. They've tried that before, chasing Mercedes in the 70's. The S40 has that area as covered as it needs to be, Lincoln has mid-sized up covered, and they need to focus on improving the products they already offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Blasphemy! That's Mercury's job!!!! So if Lincoln switches from selling "Nice Fords" to "Nice Toyotas", they will suddenly sell Luxury cars? Maybe instead of telling someone they are deluding themselves, you could come up with a list of all of the luxury features Lexus offers that aren't available from Lincoln. A small Lincoln would be stupid. They've tried that before, chasing Mercedes in the 70's. The S40 has that area as covered as it needs to be, Lincoln has mid-sized up covered, and they need to focus on improving the products they already offer. If Ford had any good designers, any good Project Managers and any good Marketing Managers they might have a chance at competing. Making a small Lincoln is not stupid but smart if its done right. But so far its been Luke warm, the MKZ and MKS are nice but remember the MKZ is based off of the Mazda 6 and the MKS is based off the Volvo S80. The MKT is based off the Flex and Lincoln MKX is based off the Ford Edge and the Lincoln Navigator is a Ford expedition. So Ford is very good at rebranding, But I can not see how Lincoln can have 3 SUV's in an already crowded market Look at BMW 328i Sports Wagon & 535 xi Sports Wagon, 328i Convertible, so why not Lincolns ? Maybe some of you want it to be the over 60's car and if so then they will be dead as will Ford, and Mercury. Toyota does make very nice Luxury cars and that is because the people leading Toyota have vision and drive to be the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangfan100 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Lincoln can just make a small car that's more focused towards being a small sporty car rather than being a rebaged Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Lincoln can just make a small car that's more focused towards being a small sporty car rather than being a rebaged Ford. How about a 2 dr hardtop or convertible version of the MKS with a 6 speed stick shift option? Make sure the trunk can fit a few golf club bags and do a great job of marketing it. or A Notch back / Convertible Mustang version ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangfan100 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 How about a 2 dr hardtop or convertible version of the MKS with a 6 speed stick shift option? Make sure the trunk can fit a few golf club bags and do a great job of marketing it. or A Notch back / Convertible Mustang version ? that's what I was thinking. It could be based off the mustang but it shouldn't look anything like the mustang. It should have a much upgraded interior and use more expensive seats. I also like the MKS coupe idea since it would directly compete with the upcoming CTS Coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96towncarcartier Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Let's see... Every Lexus is merely a fancied up Toyoduh, and you all bash Lincoln for being an all new vehicle that merely shares underpinnings from another vehicle?? It's no different when it comes to styling... people bash Lincoln for designs and styling, and every automaker supposedly "chases" BMW... and yet... BMW hasn't had an original design in decades... every single car that comes out has the same stupid design that has been on Beemers since the 1980's... Funny... when the foreigners do it, it's great. If Lincoln does it, it's a bad idea. I'm sick of the double standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimesdr Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Let's see... Every Lexus is merely a fancied up Toyoduh, and you all bash Lincoln for being an all new vehicle that merely shares underpinnings from another vehicle?? It's no different when it comes to styling... people bash Lincoln for designs and styling, and every automaker supposedly "chases" BMW... and yet... BMW hasn't had an original design in decades... every single car that comes out has the same stupid design that has been on Beemers since the 1980's... Funny... when the foreigners do it, it's great. If Lincoln does it, it's a bad idea. I'm sick of the double standards. No one is saying it is wrong to build a Lincoln off another platform like the MKS is based off the Volvo S80 platform and the MKZ is based off the Mazda 6 Platform. In fact I would like to see the Ford Taurus use the same style for the next Taurus, because the cost to develop a whole new car platform just for Lincoln would be to high and have no real benefit. Yes Lexus is based off a Toyoda, and it is done right. BMW has body style that works all over the world and people love them so its a standard for others to chase, so why would they go thru a complete new design? They also focused on their car designs as their number 1 priority and also built SUV's where Ford based all their profits on SUV and lost site of the car designs in the USA. I hope Ford & Lincoln survive, but I do not think there is room for Mercury also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustangfan100 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I hope Ford & Lincoln survive, but I do not think there is room for Mercury also. +1 I also agree that there is no room for mercury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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