P71_CrownVic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 WTF? Look at who you quoted and what you typed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Oh but your forgetting, its not nearly as good as the mileage the Prius gets....of the VW diesel with 61 MPG.... Oh of course. I should be punished for owning my old Cougar too. Fun Fact - The Cougar uses less fuel through the year than the average Prius will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Look at who you quoted and what you typed... rofl - just realized that .. sorry ... it was you and some cheerleader for a few pages, so I did not even bother checking who posted the S-Max picture ... my apologies. do we agree, though that S-max would not sell in the US? Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 There is no "IF". Ford just doesn't understand 1996 through 2001. Whe n people are involved there are always IFS. Starting with IF you did what was needed........... Show us the facts (your copys of all the paperwork with dates etc.) or drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 And you really think the Flex is going to be a good seller? 17/24 in a world of $5 a gallon gasoline. Might as well go ahead and put it in the same category as the Chrysler HEMI hybrid. um ... show me a car with full size 3 rows that get better mileage - hint Rav4, Mazda5, nor Rondo have full size third row. People will not leave half their kids at home jsut to get 40mpg. and WHICH amazing car besides the not-yet-available-and-runs-on-diesel-which-is-over-a-dollar-more-expensive-than-regular gets your amazing 30+ 40+ mileage? Last time I checked the best you can hope for is additional 10 mpg from a non-hybrid, and 20mpg from a hybrid ...and all of them are tiny 5 seaters. igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) rofl - just realized that .. sorry ... it was you and some cheerleader for a few pages, so I did not even bother checking who posted the S-Max picture ... my apologies. do we agree, though that S-max would not sell in the US? Igor Hard to tell. It is lighter and more fuel efficient than the Flex, so there are two huge pluses right there. I think that with an aggressive advertising campaign (there is asking a lot right there), it could work. If the Flex can actually sell, there should be no trouble selling the S-max. or drop it. I did drop it...some :cheerleader: brought it up... You didn't work at Inver Grove Ford by chance did you? Edited June 18, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 (edited) Hard to tell. It is lighter and more fuel efficient than the Flex, so there are two huge pluses right there. I think that with an aggressive advertising campaign (there is asking a lot right there), it could work. If the Flex can actually sell, there should be no trouble selling the S-max. unfortunately, the S-Max is no lighter than your average minivan. It is probably lighter than the Flex - since it is so much smaller - but not light enough to be powered by a sub-200hp I4 engine. So the best we could hope for is 09 Escape's 19/25 mpg from a 3.0l V6. and that is most likely an irrelevant difference. I do think, however that if they added 3rd row to a C-Max that would be a nice niche player with I4 and at least 30 mpg. Igor Edited June 18, 2008 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 um ... show me a car with full size 3 rows that get better mileage There isn't one...but the Flex does NOT offer any better mileage than the current crop of crossovers from GM or the real minivans in the segment. So fuel mileage is a non-issue. They all average 18-19 MPG combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 There isn't one...but the Flex does NOT offer any better mileage than the current crop of crossovers from GM or the real minivans in the segment. So fuel mileage is a non-issue. They all average 18-19 MPG combined. +1. Its just funny how Mlhmhmhmh keeps harping about the 17/24 like its the worst in the segment. I said it before, and ill say it again, even though its better than most of the competitors out there, the difference really is negligable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You didn't work at Inver Grove Ford by chance did you? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 There isn't one...but the Flex does NOT offer any better mileage than the current crop of crossovers from GM or the real minivans in the segment. So fuel mileage is a non-issue. They all average 18-19 MPG combined. well that was my point - the Flex is actually on top of the class, but by irrelevant margin. So all those buyers for large crossovers and minivans have no incentive NOT to look at the Flex - so there is no "rational" reason to cross it off the list- and so the rest of the car can show its strengths.. This is a much better scenario than the Fusion (for example) which debuted already handicapped with FE below the class - so while it was cheaper, there were clear rational reasons not to look at it - FE, initial lackluster crash ratings, etc ... and the sales showed it - good looks could not outweigh that. The Flex launches with no such handicap - all the objectives are right on par with the rest - so people can happily pick it on looks and details - as they should. I am however waiting for the day when Ford will move the segment with their releases - at this point they are finally releasing models at top of the class, but not yet leaders by a meaningful margin - just barely beating its competition - Focus, Edge, Flex. The day Ford releases a car that redefines a segment and has competition scramble to catch up is the day Mulally deserves a statue. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 No Good. They are the biggest bunch of crooks in the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 There is no "IF". Ford just doesn't understand 1996 through 2001. and there is ALSO a bunch of people that can't understand WHY ford turns them down on certain issues.....AND then refuse to accept THEIR accountability.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 Whe n people are involved there are always IFS. Starting with IF you did what was needed........... Show us the facts (your copys of all the paperwork with dates etc.) or drop it. it will NEVER rear its head....P71 IS OTISFORDSUCKS..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TStag Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The market is shifting in the USA, so much so you would need to be blind not to see it. I accept that traditionally American conusmers wanted extra large cars with power, more power a bit more power oh and some Hemi too. I myself have a dirty secret yearning for a Plymouth Roadrunner with a massive all American engine. But look at the Prius and the MINI. These cars are selling well in the USA now. They are game changers. When Americans started to buy MINI's Ford should have realised something big was happening... and they did, to my mind they invented the Flex. The Flex is a fashion statement (like the MINI in a way), the problem is that the fuel economy is going out of fashion quickly. It's not MINI like in the drink department. Ford learned the wrong lesson from the MINI maybe? So look across the pond and consider how the British consumer changed his buying habits over they years. 1970's man wanted a v6 or v8 petrol engine in an ideal world. The oil cris started people thinking and gradually cars changed. By the 1990's Diesels became all the rage because over here Diesel is a lot cheaper than Petrol. Today the best selling cars are smaller, lighter and have highly fuel efficient engines. In parts of continental Europe the petrol car is practically dead. Whilst the USA won't go the same way over night Ford should start introducing car's like the S-Max to "test the water". Your cars will get smaller and they will become more fuel efficient. Right now your gas is still cheap, but I promise you it will get dearer! So come on Ford, take the SMax to America. Why not simply call it a Mercury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 The market is shifting in the USA, so much so you would need to be blind not to see it. I accept that traditionally American conusmers wanted extra large cars with power, more power a bit more power oh and some Hemi too. I myself have a dirty secret yearning for a Plymouth Roadrunner with a massive all American engine. But look at the Prius and the MINI. These cars are selling well in the USA now. They are game changers. When Americans started to buy MINI's Ford should have realised something big was happening... and they did, to my mind they invented the Flex. The Flex is a fashion statement (like the MINI in a way), the problem is that the fuel economy is going out of fashion quickly. It's not MINI like in the drink department. Ford learned the wrong lesson from the MINI maybe? So look across the pond and consider how the British consumer changed his buying habits over they years. 1970's man wanted a v6 or v8 petrol engine in an ideal world. The oil cris started people thinking and gradually cars changed. By the 1990's Diesels became all the rage because over here Diesel is a lot cheaper than Petrol. Today the best selling cars are smaller, lighter and have highly fuel efficient engines. In parts of continental Europe the petrol car is practically dead. Whilst the USA won't go the same way over night Ford should start introducing car's like the S-Max to "test the water". Your cars will get smaller and they will become more fuel efficient. Right now your gas is still cheap, but I promise you it will get dearer! So come on Ford, take the SMax to America. Why not simply call it a Mercury? true, all true...the reaction is interesting to say the least....its not here yet but this is why i have GREAT hopes for eco boost....a small 4 cyl eco in the flex that could get similar power/ performance but raise the bar substantially in regards to MPGS makes awesome sense...seems ford is a little ahead of the thinking curve here. And here ( USA )there will ALWAYS be a need for vehicles such as the Flex....the reaction currently seems to be inmterest in the vehicle by prior Tahoe/ Expedition owners. Yes it is downsizing, but I'm not so sure those same people would even GALNCE at a vehicle of the Smax's diminuative size...like I said ....post the Mazda 5's sales #'s, in some regards with the 5, the S-max is already here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 and there is ALSO a bunch of people that can't understand WHY ford turns them down on certain issues.....AND then refuse to accept THEIR accountability.... it will NEVER rear its head....P71 IS OTISFORDSUCKS..... You obviously have no idea what the real facts are regarding the class action lawsuit. Your posts prove that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You obviously have no idea what the real facts are regarding the class action lawsuit. Your posts prove that... oh...do share.....one fact...you got turned down...theres a reason for that bottom line........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autotronic Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 You obviously have no idea what the real facts are regarding the class action lawsuit. Your posts prove that... I have a suggestion for both Dean and P71, why don't you both take your discussion private or to a thread outside of this one so that the dialog here can return to the discussion on the Flex, and the potential alternatives? Now that we have some new people in the thread, like TStag, who I believe is bringing a European perspective to the discussion, let's hypothesize on how the possible/probable addition of European Fords to Ford's domestic lineup, might best reposition Ford for the new market reality. And as an added thought, how this might impact the survival possibilities of the Mercury brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have a suggestion for both Dean and P71, why don't you both take your discussion private or to a thread outside of this one so that the dialog here can return to the discussion on the Flex, and the potential alternatives? Now that we have some new people in the thread, like TStag, who I believe is bringing a European perspective to the discussion, let's hypothesize on how the possible/probable addition of European Fords to Ford's domestic lineup, might best reposition Ford for the new market reality. And as an added thought, how this might impact the survival possibilities of the Mercury brand? touche...I will refrain.....just fine the BS somewhat intolerable lately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted June 18, 2008 Share Posted June 18, 2008 I have a suggestion for both Dean and P71, why don't you both take your discussion private or to a thread outside of this one so that the dialog here can return to the discussion on the Flex, and the potential alternatives? Now that we have some new people in the thread, like TStag, who I believe is bringing a European perspective to the discussion, let's hypothesize on how the possible/probable addition of European Fords to Ford's domestic lineup, might best reposition Ford for the new market reality. And as an added thought, how this might impact the survival possibilities of the Mercury brand? not sure Americana is ready for the standards Euros have been dealing with for seeming decades....size will also be an issue, sure some of the SMALL euro people haulers may work there AND be a consequence of BOTH gas pices and road size....we on the other hand have been spoiled for too long, size was equated with luxury and bigger was better....now i see one of the biggest reactions will be those in Expeditions/ Suburnbans/ Tahoes/ Armadas/ Landcruisers questioning their needs if one parameter is NOT towing 8000lb's....4500 may work for most....these are areas the S-max DOES NOT adress.........the reaction from a sales standpoint is that people are basing decisions on what they NEED, NOT what they desire...and I will ask the question again as the S-max for all intents and purposes is already here...in Mazda 5 clothes...what are its sales figures? THOSE may explain fords adherance to adressing THAT market..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have a suggestion for both Dean and P71, why don't you both take your discussion private or to a thread outside of this one so that the dialog here can return to the discussion on the Flex, and the potential alternatives? Now that we have some new people in the thread, like TStag, who I believe is bringing a European perspective to the discussion, let's hypothesize on how the possible/probable addition of European Fords to Ford's domestic lineup, might best reposition Ford for the new market reality. And as an added thought, how this might impact the survival possibilities of the Mercury brand? TStag brings his own perspective....its often quite strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Which brings us to the Transit Connect. IIRC, it's about a year away. IMHO, it will be really successful: it's the replacement for the minivan. I hope Ford brings over the regular height design as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xr7g428 Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 I think that Dean touched on this... If the Flex is successful, it will be because it is a better looking alternative to the mini vans out there. Probably no one is going to chose Flex based solely on fuel mileage. My prediction is that Flex will sell well, simply because compared to vehicles that are comparable in size, utility and mileage, it is the coolest looking thing around. Given the choice of driving mini van or a flex, the choice is straight up Flex every time. Now the category buster will be if the Flex can pull people out of large SUV's. Is it cool enough to pull drivers out of Suburbans, Expeditions, and so on? (Given that the heavy towing crowd isn't going any where). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 just fine the BS somewhat intolerable lately.... Then quit posting it. -------------- Autotronic...you got it! :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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