Three month old order sitting in USOB

[tazjedi]

All Window Stickers blended after August 1st reflect the Aug 1st price increase. This in no way reflects the price protection guarantee on dealer invoice pricing for retail orders placed prior to August 1st. My window sticker showed the new pricing, but it did not impact what I paid. (Order placed May 8th - Produced Aug. 20th - took delivery Sept. 3rd).

 

In looking up some information on the price protection this looks like it only applies to x/a/d plans. When the customer is given a copy of the invoice upfront they are price-protected. Otherwise unless the price is set on the sales order the deal is not price protected. With the wording on his deal it looks like there is no price protection because the price was not set at the time of order. This seems more like an order that was placed on if you want it when it comes in we will negotiate the price then.

[fmorriso]

All Window Stickers blended after August 1st reflect the Aug 1st price increase. This in no way reflects the price protection guarantee on dealer invoice pricing for retail orders placed prior to August 1st. My window sticker showed the new pricing, but it did not impact what I paid. (Order placed May 8th - Produced Aug. 20th - took delivery Sept. 3rd).

The window sticker reflects the August 1, 2008 price increase.

 

Thanks to an anonymous source, I may have found the proverbial "smoking gun" that will put the lie to what the dealer has been telling me regarding the need to pass along the August 1 price increase to me despite my order having been received by Ford on April 21, 2008.

 

An "informed source" to whom I promised anonymity has given me information that might blow the dealer out of the water. I also agreed not to spill the beans regarding the specifics of that information, so please don't ask. Unlike the dealer, I actually keep my promises to people and this one will be no exception.

 

An email sent on Friday, September 12, 2008 from my salesman says he was told that the vehicle was built September 10, 2008 (matching the code on at the top of the PDF window sticker) and may arrive as early as September 22, 2008. I bumped my VIN tracking request in the other forum Friday evening, but ViperPilot (probably taking a well-deserved break) has not responded yet, so I cannot yet independently corroborate the information provided by the salesman with regards to Produced Date, Gate Release Date or Ship Date.

 

Meanwhile, the first of the consumer protection agencies in Virginia (the one run by mostly auto dealers with a few token consumer advocates - can you say "stacked deck" boys and girls?) has spoken with the General Sales Manager and was assured that my vehicle would not be sold out from under me (as threatened on September 9, 2008) simply because I dared to exercise my rights as a consumer under the constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. The person at the agency I spoke with offered no help in getting the dealer to agree to the original price, which is about what I expected from that particular group. Hey. At least they can't say I didn't try them before going on to other "options".

 

My other formal complaint to the Virginia Attorney General's office has been received and they would like to have a telephone conversation with me on Monday.

[Green Lantern]

The window sticker reflects the August 1, 2008 price increase.

 

Thanks to an anonymous source, I may have found the proverbial "smoking gun" that will put the lie to what the dealer has been telling me regarding the need to pass along the August 1 price increase to me despite my order having been received by Ford on April 21, 2008.

 

An "informed source" to whom I promised anonymity has given me information that might blow the dealer out of the water. I also agreed not to spill the beans regarding the specifics of that information, so please don't ask. Unlike the dealer, I actually keep my promises to people and this one will be no exception.

 

An email sent on Friday, September 12, 2008 from my salesman says he was told that the vehicle was built September 10, 2008 (matching the code on at the top of the PDF window sticker) and may arrive as early as September 22, 2008. I bumped my VIN tracking request in the other forum Friday evening, but ViperPilot (probably taking a well-deserved break) has not responded yet, so I cannot yet independently corroborate the information provided by the salesman with regards to Produced Date, Gate Release Date or Ship Date.

 

Meanwhile, the first of the consumer protection agencies in Virginia (the one run by mostly auto dealers with a few token consumer advocates - can you say "stacked deck" boys and girls?) has spoken with the General Sales Manager and was assured that my vehicle would not be sold out from under me (as threatened on September 9, 2008) simply because I dared to exercise my rights as a consumer under the constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia. The person at the agency I spoke with offered no help in getting the dealer to agree to the original price, which is about what I expected from that particular group. Hey. At least they can't say I didn't try them before going on to other "options".

 

My other formal complaint to the Virginia Attorney General's office has been received and they would like to have a telephone conversation with me on Monday.

 

 

I am sorry to say that I am officially in the "i am rooting for the dealer" camp on this one. I just don't like the victim mentality and if you had not constantly broadcast all your views of how you feel you are being taken advantage of and included all the veiled threats of having other plans and seeking legal remedies I might feel differently. You remind me of divorced spouse who does nothing but seek to undermine the credibility of the other spouse. Good luck with your car and I hope you grow up someday man. I have no doubt that your dealer did act poorly (and wrongly) in his conversaion to you but I also have a strong feeling that you did nothing to help the situation based on the way you express yourself in your posts here.

[Pioneer]

I wonder if the people at the dealership know about this thread.

[tazjedi]

I wonder if the people at the dealership know about this thread.

If they don't someone should make them aware of the threat. After all he did mention the dealership in this thread multiple times. I do have to side with the dealer on this one... :reading:

[Pioneer]

If they don't someone should make them aware of the threat. After all he did mention the dealership in this thread multiple times. I do have to side with the dealer on this one... :reading:

 

 

His dealership is:

 

Koons Sterling Ford

46869 Harry Byrd Highway

Sterling, VA

20164

 

http://www.koonssterlingford.net/index.html

 

Anybody live close?

Edited September 13, 2008 by Pioneer

[09feh]

LOL this thread cracks me up....

 

Making someone wait over 4 months for a vehicle and then charging them 1000 dollars more than agreed upon when it finally does show up is not only fair, I'm SURE it's a great way to get NEW and REPEAT customers too!

 

 

WAY TO GO FOMOCO!!!

[akirby]

LOL this thread cracks me up....

 

Making someone wait over 4 months for a vehicle and then charging them 1000 dollars more than agreed upon when it finally does show up is not only fair, I'm SURE it's a great way to get NEW and REPEAT customers too!

 

 

WAY TO GO FOMOCO!!!

 

He didn't have an agreed upon price. The purchase agreement allows the price to be changed. The dealer may not be behaving well but the dealer is certainly within their rights here.

 

Ford didn't make anybody wait. The dealer either didn't have allocation or put other vehicles ahead of it.

 

And this has nothing to do with Ford. It's a Dealer/Customer issue.

 

 

The fact that almost everyone here with one exception is siding with the dealer should tell you something. And we generally hate dealers.

[akirby]

The person at the agency I spoke with offered no help in getting the dealer to agree to the original price, which is about what I expected from that particular group.

 

Maybe that's because they can't because YOU signed the purchase agreement that allows it.

 

I hate people who think they're owed something and blame everyone but themselves.

[tazjedi]

If they don't someone should make them aware of the threat. After all he did mention the dealership in this thread multiple times. I do have to side with the dealer on this one... :reading:

I used to live close to there at one point and have dealt with Koons before. They have always been honest in the past. I can't get involved because it would be a conflict of interest, but maybe someone that has no relation business/personnel could share this information from there potential customer. I bet if they saw this thread they would not even attempt to sell to them. Ford backs up there dealers in court cases so lets see if this guy can handle fighting a legal team and who will really win. By the way the court you need to go to is circuit or above because the cost goes off of the total cost of the vehicle not the 1000 or so difference. Good luck at getting to circuit court without hiring a lawyer and then how much are you really going to gain or save by the time you pay everyone who helps with your case. Move on already. Can someone who monitors this forum block this conversation from continuing, because it is getting old quick.

[GaryG]

In my opinion, the sales staff and the Dealership need to be honest in order to earn business from their community. If they wanted to keep an open deal with the customer, they should have explained the terms at the order. After all, the dealers know the rules of their sales, not the customer.

 

This guy has waited 4 months for these bastards to screw him over with the price increase they only will benefit from. I have no use for this dealership or the people here supporting them. I don't agree with 09FEH about Ford because this is the best FEH ever!

[Green Lantern]

In my opinion, the sales staff and the Dealership need to be honest in order to earn business from their community. If they wanted to keep an open deal with the customer, they should have explained the terms at the order. After all, the dealers know the rules of their sales, not the customer.

 

This guy has waited 4 months for these bastards to screw him over with the price increase they only will benefit from. I have no use for this dealership or the people here supporting them. I don't agree with 09FEH about Ford because this is the best FEH ever!

 

 

Gary, I totally agree that I would not be happy waiting this long for a vehicle. My disagreement is that if he was so unhappy with everything he says happened then he should have left this dealer a long time ago. He has continued to wait and vent his views on the matter here repeatedly. Just like in any conversation/disagreement, there are two sides to the story and we only get one here.

 

I have read all of his posts in every thread and the tone displayed in his posts have always appeared to be one with some sort of sense of entitlement. I say appeared because that is one of the pitfalls of today's world with email/texting/internet postings in that one cannot truly get how someone feels or what they are trying to say without voice inflection. He has, however, made it a point to try and insert emotions into his posts with dramatic usage of capitalization and has referenced vague threats several times.

 

I do not feel as if he actually had an agreed upon price by the dealer that protected him from the price increase. If he had a price agreement based upon an A/X/Z plan then I think he would have been price protected but he did not have this and only sought this after the price increase had been introduced. If the dealer had the price increase passed to them then they are within their rights to pass this on to the consumer. If they did not then I agree this is bad form and they should be held accountable. But we do not know if this is the case or not yet. I support the fact that he is trying to get the best deal possible but I do not agree with his methods.

 

As a previous poster noted, a consumer can not make a dealer sell them a vehicle at the price the consumer wants. I don't like the way the auto industry works in terms of price negotiation and the lack of transparency between the dealer and the consumer but that is the model we are subjected to. That is why I did not order my vehicle until I found a dealer that would accept my xplan pin and give me the xplan price. I wanted to know up front what my vehicle would cost and not deal with the haggling or confusion at the end of the stream.

 

So I support the consumer wanting the best price but in this case I suport the dealer because I have not yet seen proof that they did anything wrong other than yell at the consumer over the phone. I would love to hear all those conversations to see that the consumer did nothing wrong in this scenario and that all the fault was on the dealership side.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Green Lantern

[09feh]

Gary,

 

I never said this wasn't the best FEH ever. I'm not sure where you came up with that.

 

 

To all the rest, my thought process on this is fairly simple.

 

IF the dealer had the vehicle on the day the customer walked in the door to buy it, the customer would have paid the current sticker price.

REGARDLESS of what dealer it was, WHY should the customer pay more because FOMOCO took four months to make and deliver the vehicle? (Especially while OTHER dealers were getting them all along).

 

Ford and the dealership should honor the price of the 09FEH on the day it was ordered. Why is it the customers fault that it took four months for it to arrive??

 

I have to wonder if this customer would ever buy from this dealer even if they honor the original ordered price.

 

For those that will say " The dealer would be better off"... Just how many customers can this dealer and ESPECIALLY Ford afford to lose these days? In my opinion... not even one.

 

Sean

[fmorriso]

Gary,

 

I never said this wasn't the best FEH ever. I'm not sure where you came up with that.

 

 

To all the rest, my thought process on this is fairly simple.

 

IF the dealer had the vehicle on the day the customer walked in the door to buy it, the customer would have paid the current sticker price.

REGARDLESS of what dealer it was, WHY should the customer pay more because FOMOCO took four months to make and deliver the vehicle? (Especially while OTHER dealers were getting them all along).

 

Ford and the dealership should honor the price of the 09FEH on the day it was ordered. Why is it the customers fault that it took four months for it to arrive??

 

I have to wonder if this customer would ever buy from this dealer even if they honor the original ordered price.

 

For those that will say " The dealer would be better off"... Just how many customers can this dealer and ESPECIALLY Ford afford to lose these days? In my opinion... not even one.

 

Sean

Don't bother trying to convince all the apologists for Ford and their dealers.

 

They don't realize theirs is an anachronistic 20th-century mind-set adrift in the 21rst Century.

 

One day, Ford and its dealers will wake up and realize that, in this age of the internet and near-instant information, the truth cannot be hidden forever.

 

That lesson will be a wee bit more costly for some than others.

[Hook686]

...

 

That lesson will be a wee bit more costly for some than others.

 

hmmmmm My personal thought is that you are haggling and fussing over about $1000. If you take this to a Municipal Court, or Superior Court, I doubt the judge will smile on you. More likely he will sanction you. You might have a chance in small claims court if you have solid documentation, or the dealer just does not show up. I do not know what your witness, documentation ... evidence is, but is sounded pretty weak to me.

 

I do think you got screwed, but from what I've read it seems it is permitted by the procedures agreed to.

 

Remember this is just my personal opinion, from having personally, as a citizen, taken claims into Small Claims Court, Municipal Court and Superior Court here in California, so please don't slam me, as I see you do others.

 

In any event good luck and do tone the bashing down ... it does not go over well with some.

[akirby]

It's the dealer's fault the order took 4 months. Ford doesn't arbitrarily build vehicles and other dealers got their orders as estimated.

The dealer probably didn't act professionally but based on your attitude here I'd have to say they were probably provoked.

 

It's your fault you didn't ask for X plan 4 months ago.

It's your fault you didn't get a guaranteed purchase price.

 

The dealer is not required to sell any vehicle to any customer - period. You do not have the right to purchase a vehicle.

 

We don't know whether the vehicle is price protected or not - it depends on how and when the order was actually placed. Remember only "retail" orders were protected and we don't know if the dealer put it in as a retail order or not. So the dealer may or may not have to pay the price increase.

 

 

If I was the dealer at this point I would sell you the vehicle at the agreed upon price, then politely ask you to never set foot in the dealership again. It's just not worth it.

 

I also can't help but notice your last 5 vehicles are Saturns, no doubt purchased without price haggling. Explains a lot.

[fmorriso]

It's the dealer's fault the order took 4 months. Ford doesn't arbitrarily build vehicles and other dealers got their orders as estimated.

The dealer probably didn't act professionally but based on your attitude here I'd have to say they were probably provoked.

 

It's your fault you didn't ask for X plan 4 months ago.

It's your fault you didn't get a guaranteed purchase price.

 

The dealer is not required to sell any vehicle to any customer - period. You do not have the right to purchase a vehicle.

 

We don't know whether the vehicle is price protected or not - it depends on how and when the order was actually placed. Remember only "retail" orders were protected and we don't know if the dealer put it in as a retail order or not. So the dealer may or may not have to pay the price increase.

 

 

If I was the dealer at this point I would sell you the vehicle at the agreed upon price, then politely ask you to never set foot in the dealership again. It's just not worth it.

 

I also can't help but notice your last 5 vehicles are Saturns, no doubt purchased without price haggling. Explains a lot.

You seem very eager for me to just give up and let $1030 slip away.

 

I'm curious. If it was your $1030 would you be so eager to give up without a fight?

[Green Lantern]

You seem very eager for me to just give up and let $1030 slip away.

 

I'm curious. If it was your $1030 would you be so eager to give up without a fight?

 

 

I can only speak for myself but I certainly am not arguing with you over trying to negotiate the best price you can. I only object to the methods in which you are trying to do so. I hate purchasing cars because of exactly all the types of issues you have run into during your order/purchase. This is why I researched for two plus years on what vehicle I wanted and went with an x-plan so that I would not be negotiating over price. My other choice was a Saturn Vue Hybrid so that again I would not have to haggle over pricing but went with the FEHL because I feel it is a better vehicle. I have simply not agreed with your threats of lawsuits over what the dealer is doing when, while it may not feel right to the consumer, is within their rights if the price increase was passed along to them by Ford. We only hear one side of the conversation here and unfortunately, I do not think you have been very compelling to sway public opinion to your side. If the roles were reversed and I was only hearing the dealer's side of the conversation complaining about you I would feel more sympathetic to you because everyone needs to have their voice heard.

 

So by all means work for your $1030 because in today's economy every dollar is worth it. I just wish you had taken a different approach. But, God made us all different and we each have to steer our own ships (or FEH's) on our journey. I still contend that if someone were to go back and read all your posts they would see an overall theme of complaining going on which leads me to believe that this emotion may have carried over into your conversations with your dealer and thus, provoked them into their own poor behavior (which is NOT excusable on their part). Working for a service providing company I have seen bad relationships between customers and companies many times over. It is never right but it is almost never one-sided either. The problem is that when the relationship is good, no one hears about it. But when it is bad everyone hears about it and they typically only hear from the consumer screaming of the injustice done to them by the company and other consumers take that as gospel when there may very well have been a good deal of fault with the consumer. No company can afford to lose any customer but at the same time they cannot afford to just roll over for every customer either because they have share holders to respond to also. It is a lose-lose situation for the company.

[akirby]

You seem very eager for me to just give up and let $1030 slip away.

 

I'm curious. If it was your $1030 would you be so eager to give up without a fight?

 

No, I'm eager for you to stop acting like a jerk and threatening to sue the dealer. The bottom line is this: the order took too long, the price went up and the dealer exercised their RIGHT under the purchase agreement to increase the price. Period.

 

This is no different than you walking in today and trying to buy the vehicle for the first time. If you don't like the price then WALK AWAY. You don't want to lose the vehicle and 5 months waiting time? PAY THE DEALER. You act like you have some legal right to a specific price, but you didn't negotiate that.

 

Had you negotiated a X plan price, you'd be protected. Had you negotiated a guaranteed price you'd be protected. You didn't, so stop whining.

 

To answer your question - if I was in your situation I would either pay the extra $1030 or walk away. You don't sue a business owner because they won't give you the price you want unless you have a contract that states otherwise (and you don't).

[09feh]

To answer your question - if I was in your situation I would either pay the extra $1030 or walk away. You don't sue a business owner because they won't give you the price you want unless you have a contract that states otherwise (and you don't).

 

weak weak weak......

 

 

There are those that accept what they "can't" change and then there are those that CHANGE what they can't accept.

[ViperPilot]

I'm not posting here to pick sides, only to emphasize a few points that others have made.

 

One, the dealer is not owned, operated or in any way controlled by Ford Motor Company. Period.

 

Dealers are protected by franchise laws that were written before most of us were even born. If it were possible for FMC to shut down bad dealers, they would. We have too many dealers for the marketshare we have. Ever wonder why the import dealers have nicer, shinier showrooms? Because they have half the number of dealers doing twice the business. Ford would love to streamline the franchise system -- it would present a cleaner image at the customer level and from an administrative level it would be cheaper and easier.

 

But it can't. Ford cannot punish bad dealers. All Ford can do is "reward" dealers who score well in their Blue Oval Certified program, which is customer survey driven. Nobody has stated that this was a Blue Oval Certified franchise -- personally, I wouldn't deal with one that wasn't, because without it there's not much seperating them from the Jimmy Slick used car lot on the corner.

 

Two, about talk of lawsuits and stuff. First, the dealer is in no way obligated to honor XPlan pricing unless it was agreed upon at the time of ordering. The Commonwealth of Virginia has no mechanism to enforce this because to do so it would have to overturn the Franchise Agreement between Ford and the Dealer. Second, the best that you can hope for in small claims is for them to honor the original sales agreement. If your John Hancock is at the bottom, the dealer is only bound by the terms on that agreement. If a set price wasn't agreed upon or the contract allows for the price to be increased then chances are you will not be successful. There's a reason that sales contracts are written the way that they are -- because they've got a hundred years of customer experiences that they have to draw on.

 

On a personal note, I cannot for the life of me understand why after all these experiences with allocation problems and now this that you choose to do business with the particular dealer. If you feel that you're doing it "to teach them a lesson", then I'll tell you now that no lesson will be learned. If you walk away they sell the FEH at sticker, if you buy it they still get their money. Either way, they don't lose; it's just a question of how much they gain.

 

But at the same time, you're the guy whose buying a new $35,000 vehicle with fairly new technology that will need to be serviced at some point. And to that dealership, you'll always be "that guy". Nobody's going to trip over each other to make you happy there -- they know that they've lost you as a future customer, so nobody will make the effort. That's not a "Ford Dealer" thing, that's just plain human nature.

 

And don't think for a minute that dealers don't talk, even good ones to bad ones. Personally I would give the sale to a dealer worthy of my business.

[akirby]

There are those that accept what they "can't" change and then there are those that CHANGE what they can't accept.

 

And there are those who have unrealistic expectations. What's next? Sue the supermarket because they're charging $6 for watermelons and you only think they're worth $5? Sue Best Buy because they won't give you a $500 discount on your favorite TV?

 

There is nothing to change here. The dealer sets the price and you either accept it or walk away. If you don't like the dealer or their tactics then you don't give them your business. That's how it works. Deal with it.

[09feh]

To all the rest, my thought process on this is fairly simple.

 

IF the dealer had the vehicle on the day the customer walked in the door to buy it, the customer would have paid the current sticker price.

REGARDLESS of what dealer it was, WHY should the customer pay more because FOMOCO took four months to make and deliver the vehicle? (Especially while OTHER dealers were getting them all along).

 

Ford and the dealership should honor the price of the 09FEH on the day it was ordered. Why is it the customers fault that it took four months for it to arrive??

 

I have to wonder if this customer would ever buy from this dealer even if they honor the original ordered price.

 

For those that will say " The dealer would be better off"... Just how many customers can this dealer and ESPECIALLY Ford afford to lose these days? In my opinion... not even one.

 

Sean

 

AKIRBY, you're not paying attention...

 

I have never taken a position on the op's idea to sue, nor have I ever suggested that suing is or is not the right thing to do...

 

Please read above (a quote from my previous post) as a reminder of my position on this particular topic.....

 

That way, when you quote and respond to my posts, you can have a clue as to what you are typing about...

 

 

 

 

Sean

[akirby]

Please read above (a quote from my previous post) as a reminder of my position on this particular topic.....

 

That way, when you quote and respond to my posts, you can have a clue as to what you are typing about...

 

I can only reply to what you posted last and that's what I did. I said the choice was to pay the dealer or walk away from the deal. You seemed to disagree, saying that you shouldn't accept those 2 options. If that wasn't what you mean then you're the one who needs to get a clue. We're not mind readers.

[09feh]

And there are those who have unrealistic expectations. What's next? Sue the supermarket because they're charging $6 for watermelons and you only think they're worth $5? Sue Best Buy because they won't give you a $500 discount on your favorite TV?

 

 

oops, you must have forgotten about this part of your post, which was replying to my post...

 

I reposted that info for you also...

 

Perhaps you might read your own posts too?????

 

 

Sean