Wrong to buy American?

[F250]

You have to understand that a very large portion of the auto market is made up of people that have already bought foreign cars. By asking the public to buy American because it is obviously the right thing to do you have in a sense insulted everyone who has ever bought a foreign car. You have implied that they have already done the "wrong" thing and it sits off the same mechanism that causes one to blush. Their defense mechanism turns on and they get angry. ..

 

Good post.

Those angry, defensive foreign car owners attack all American cars and if necessary go back to detail the problems they had with an AMC Pacer that they owned when Jimmy Carter was president. Therefore all American cars are bad, even the magazines they read say so.

[F250]

Again, I always always always buy domestic first.

Good.

 

In my childhood, TVs, radios, and stereos manufactured in the U.S. included RCA, Zenith, GE, Motorola, Philco (Ford), Westinghouse, Magnavox, Packard Bell, .... I know I'm missing some. I'm sure they did make up a sizable portion of the economy then. Everything was made here. Cameras, projectors, radios, tape recorders, we had 3 viable domestic civilian airplane manufacturers. And the thing is, other countries had theirs too.

Quite a list of American companies destroyed by "free (not fair) trade"

 

International trade accounted for around 3% of U.S. GDP in 1962. Now it is over 33%. And what has it gotten us? Squat I would argue. Jack. Diddley. Squat. In my ideal world, you would be able to find whatever you need, domestically produced, by people making a living wage. We would eat apples in the Autumn and strawberries and melons in the Summer, just like God intended. We would buy lacquer boxes from Japan and Tea from China, and they would buy Jack Daniels, and the occasional Harley Davidson from us, and that would pretty much be the extent of international trade. We wouldn't be trying to cannibalize each others living wage industrial base or kill off each-others agricultural traditions. Trade would be "free" in the sense that no goods from any country would be prohibited, but tariffs would be in place to effectively equalize levels of environmental and labor protection (including minimum wage set at the poverty level for a family of 4). In an ideal world.

Completely agree with you here.

[chiefstang]

Absolutely, I would rather sit at home for the rest of my life than own or drive a Jap car. I don't care if they built one of their cars in my backyard I would still never buy that garbage.

Alot of this comes back to loyalty, too, which I think is lacking nowadays. I have been a Ford man for years, and there is really not much that could sway me. I wouldn't go so far as to call it blind devotion, but my love for them runs deep. That's just me. I'm a Kansas City Chiefs fan too, and they are gonna straight up suck for the next few years, but I will still be the guy standing on the barstool screaming at the TV like a madman regardless. No fairweather fan here. My football team, my family, my 'Stang, and my country. I love them all, regardless of mistakes they may make. I don't jump ship, and kick them while they are down. So if it seems like I am overly passionate about this topic, it's because people buying Jap shit now kicks at two things I love, and it seems like for NO good reason other than fuzzy perception. Fairweather country? You guys gonna leave your wives when the going gets tough too?

[bb62]

I am buying American! I will buy the last F-150 that rolls off the line before they shut the entire company down and drive it for the rest of my life! I will never drive a Japanese car, not one from there, or one from here made with parts from there.

 

Boy is this reasoning stupid. Let's consider what the effect is on the economy if Mr. "I'm Buying an F150 even if all I need is a Civic sized vehicle" continues to use his F150 instead of utilizing an economy car - which is what most people can get by with if pressed. What would the effect be to the American economy if an F150 is compared to a Honda Civic...

 

F150 - Let's assume a medium level of content to bring the price to about $20K. With 150K miles driving in the life of the vehicle and about 15 mpg, that's 10,000 gallon utilized in the life of the vehicle. At an average of $4.00 per gallon, that's $40,000 spent on gas.

 

Civic - Also about $20K in EX trim (with most of the bells and whistles) and at least 30 mpg. With 150K of driving (both the F150 and the Civic can easily exceed this number theoretically), and using the same cost per gallon, the Civic driver only utilizes $20,000 in gas.

 

Let's assume that for the sake of argument that the F150 is 100% American made (It's not but it is an assumption), and let's assume that the Civic is 50% American made (It's listed at 70% but let's be conservative). Consider that the marginal purchase of gasoline is a direct increase in the transfer of funds oversea, this means that Mr F150 is exporting $40,000 in American capital overseas while Mr. Civic is only exporting $30,000 in American capital overseas. Mr. Civic must thus be MORE PATROITIC than Mr. F150 if patriotism is measured by keeping American funds in the country.

 

Furthermore, of the funds that are transported overseas, the Civic sends $10,000 to a country that is our ally whereas the entire amount of funding exported overseas by Mr. F150 is going to countries that don't like us. So who is more patriotic here.................?

[mettech]

+1

 

Is it better for the USA to buy an Accord or a Fusion?

 

Does all of the Honda, Toyota (add any name) profits go back to their homeland?

 

Does all of Ford, GM profits stay in the USA?

 

 

How American is that Car?... From USA Today.

[NickF1011]

Absolutely, I would rather sit at home for the rest of my life than own or drive a Jap car. I don't care if they built one of their cars in my backyard I would still never buy that garbage.

 

Mmmm....sure you would.

 

Do you still use a 25 year old television because you can't buy an American one anymore?

 

Do you get on the Internet using an Intellivision because new computers are mostly made of foreign parts?

 

If there were no American automakers left, and you needed a new car, you would buy a foreign one.

[chiefstang]

Mmmm....sure you would.

 

Do you still use a 25 year old television because you can't buy an American one anymore?

 

Do you get on the Internet using an Intellivision because new computers are mostly made of foreign parts?

 

If there were no American automakers left, and you needed a new car, you would buy a foreign one.

And if there were no air, I would also grow gills, and gulp water. But while there IS air to breathe, fuck the water. I do own an Intellivision, though! Still works, ironically enough. Had to send my Playstation 3 back to Sony twice already...

Edited August 4, 2008 by chiefstang

[Kev-Mo]

Boy is this reasoning stupid. Let's consider what the effect is on the economy if Mr. "I'm Buying an F150 even if all I need is a Civic sized vehicle" continues to use his F150 instead of utilizing an economy car - which is what most people can get by with if pressed. What would the effect be to the American economy if an F150 is compared to a Honda Civic...

 

F150 - Let's assume a medium level of content to bring the price to about $20K. With 150K miles driving in the life of the vehicle and about 15 mpg, that's 10,000 gallon utilized in the life of the vehicle. At an average of $4.00 per gallon, that's $40,000 spent on gas.

 

Civic - Also about $20K in EX trim (with most of the bells and whistles) and at least 30 mpg. With 150K of driving (both the F150 and the Civic can easily exceed this number theoretically), and using the same cost per gallon, the Civic driver only utilizes $20,000 in gas.

 

Let's assume that for the sake of argument that the F150 is 100% American made (It's not but it is an assumption), and let's assume that the Civic is 50% American made (It's listed at 70% but let's be conservative). Consider that the marginal purchase of gasoline is a direct increase in the transfer of funds oversea, this means that Mr F150 is exporting $40,000 in American capital overseas while Mr. Civic is only exporting $30,000 in American capital overseas. Mr. Civic must thus be MORE PATROITIC than Mr. F150 if patriotism is measured by keeping American funds in the country.

 

Furthermore, of the funds that are transported overseas, the Civic sends $10,000 to a country that is our ally whereas the entire amount of funding exported overseas by Mr. F150 is going to countries that don't like us. So who is more patriotic here.................?

 

 

1st - How do you know I don't need a truck, and that I can get along on a Japanese Civic? How arrogant of you to imply that I should just get a Civic instead of what I need.

 

2nd - Your calculations are not correct - at $4.00 per gallon of gas, 53% of that is crude oil. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...tml/petbro.html In addition, the US imports about 60% of our crude oil. So, on average - $40,000 * .52 * .60 = $12,720 of the 40k you described goes mostly to Canada and Mexico for crude oil. I buy gas here in the Mtn west from Sinclair that uses only domestic crude for this area. Also, of my 40k in life of the vehicle gas cost is 5-6k of tax used to fix the roads both you and I drive on. Buying a Civic contributes nothing to our roads, but contributes nicely to the roads and transportation system in Japan.

 

3rd - Domestic content of vehicles is spun by the imports to look better than it actually is. Japanese companies that use other Japanese companies operating in the US for parts suppliers show it as domestic content. You may be fooled, but I am not.

 

4th - Japan is our ally?? Last I heard they pulled funding and support out of Iraq/Afghanistan 5 years ago.

 

Just look at it this way: Ichiro Suzuki plays for the Seattle Mariners, he is still Japanese. Honda and Toyota assemble cars in the US, they are still Japanese.

 

The bottom line here is real simple: If all this globalization, cheap labor and goods, foreign investment, and foreign owned factories etc. was good for the USA as we have been told for the last 15years, then don't you think we would be seeing positive results by now? The deeper we buy in to this, the worse it gets.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Kev-Mo

[chiefstang]

1st - How do you know I don't need a truck, and that I can get along on a Japanese Civic? How arrogant of you to imply that I should just get a Civic instead of what I need.

 

2nd - Your calculations are not correct - at $4.00 per gallon of gas, 53% of that is crude oil. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...tml/petbro.html In addition, the US imports about 60% of our crude oil. So, on average - $40,000 * .52 * .60 = $12,720 of the 40k you described goes mostly to Canada and Mexico for crude oil. I buy gas here in the Mtn west from Sinclair that uses only domestic crude for this area. Also, of my 40k in life of the vehicle gas cost is 5-6k of tax used to fix the roads both you and I drive on. Buying a Civic contributes nothing to our roads, but contributes nicely to the roads and transportation system in Japan.

 

3rd - Domestic content of vehicles is spun by the imports to look better than it actually is. Japanese companies that use other Japanese companies operating in the US for parts suppliers show it as domestic content. You may be fooled, but I am not.

 

Just look at it this way: Ichiro Suzuki plays for the Seattle Mariners, he is still Japanese. Honda and Toyota assemble cars in the US, they are still Japanese.

PERFECTLY put!! Some people are so spun around and dizzy off their own bullshit, it makes me want to puke. Patriotic for buying a Honda? Listen to yourself.

[FoMoCobra]

When it comes to building cars, (and by cars I mean small 4cyl cars) the japanese take top honors in reliability and efficiency. They also led the way in option packaging 4cyl power in a car that is loaded with leather, nav, heated seats.... etc.

 

When it comes to building anything else, Ford & GM are on Par with quality and fuel efficiency. Hence, there is little reason to prefer the Japanese equivelant of an SUV except for personal opinion, pure loyalty or aesthitic reasons.

 

Therefore, I would agree with this thread in this one point: I find it a bit unpatriotic to purchase a Toyota Tundra (not that i would ever tell anyone). I understand that people have the right to choose and that is what America is built upon, but I cant help feeling a little queasy when I see a Tundra on the road. Its not better than any one of the big 3's trucks. Its not more efficient, it cant tow any more, its chassis is no where near as strong, it doesn't look any better... so why would anyone buy one?

Edited August 5, 2008 by FoMoCobra

[V8-X]

Personally, I will always try to stick with Fords, American products and companies, but can't promise I'll only buy American. If the domestic manufacturer doesn't have what fits the needs of my family, then I will look at products produced by foreign companies, whether that be Japanese, Russian or what ever. These companies can try to persuade me to "Buy American", but that purchase is not on their terms, so what they say has little impact on my decision. I'm only a number to them. First thing I'd like to see is what these people telling me to "Buy American" are driving. Find too many times with scenerios like this, they don't practice what they preach.

 

Now for the last 3-4 years, maybe not that long, Ford has been providing comparable vehicles to what some of the foreigns offer. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. When buying my F150 in 12/06, I drove all domestic & foreign 1/2 tons. Chose the best one on the road, in my opinion. When buying the wife's Altima, we basically came to the same conclusion after driving the majority of vehicles in the class. The wife and I have owned 10 vehicles, all Ford, except one Chevy (98 Cavalier) and two Nissans (93 Sentra & 04 Altima). All the Fords were great vehicles except the '85 Tempo (wife's 1st car and POS) and the '99 Explorer which we dropped over $6K into between 50K and 75K miles.

 

No one is gonna tell me to buy an inferior American product. Sure that is helping the economy more, but if this inferior domestic product continously breaks down (see 99 Explorer above) and is in the shop, even though that will be employing American workers to fix, it is taking money out of my pocket book. I'm not willing to sacrifice paying my utilities and feeding my 3 kids or racking up credit card debt simply to say I bought a POS domestic vehicle. And I'm sure many wouldn't be willing to do this either.

 

So I will always support domestic products first and foremost. But if the quality products are missing, then I will go for the best option available. Some may call this Anti-American or whatever, no problem you can feel how you like, it's a free country. I'll feel how I feel and will do what's best for the economy/country, as long as it won't negatively impact supporting my kids or keep them from being safe.

[V8-X]

Furthermore, of the funds that are transported overseas, the Civic sends $10,000 to a country that is our ally whereas the entire amount of funding exported overseas by Mr. F150 is going to countries that don't like us. So who is more patriotic here.................?

 

In this situation, wouldn't you purchase fuel from a company that doesn't get it's fuel from one of these countries that dislikes America? Easy to avoid as I already do it, whether it's from the gasoline or E85 that I use.

Edited August 4, 2008 by V8-X

[Ralph Greene]

It appears to me it's considerably more patriotic to buy a Honda Accord than a Ford Fusion.... Going by the numbers. My 08 Mustang only has 65% US content, so buying that was not very patriotic also. Fortunately....I buy what I want....for other reasons, so this doesn't matter to me.

 

I'm glad to see the myth of all this buy American propaganda begin to show up. It has nothing to do with being patroitic. BTW....When you buy a Honda, profits do not go back to Japan. Some may, but not all. How do you think they build all those new plants and hire all those US workers? When Ford and GM, who are huge sellers of cars in Europe, sell cars there, does the money come back here. No....it stays there for corporate use mainly. They build plants and hire workers.

 

I will say this about being patriotic. When Ford agrees to make a totally 100% content car, with 100% American workers, I will buy it. Otherwise I think this guilt trip being laid on us is just UAW propaganda. It's not even from Ford, because Ford knows it would be hypocrital of them to take that position. They are a global company, building plants, hiring workers, and sourcing parts all over the world. They don't pretend otherwise.

How loyal is Ford to it's US work force? They replace you in a instant with a Mexican work force the minute they get a chance.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Ralph Greene

[mettech]

There is a plant in Vincennes, Indiana that makes door panels and trim for... Toyota.... Subaru... and GM... and others. A contract is being looked at for another USA owned car company. :shades:

 

That plant is... Japanese owned. However, the product that it makes is listed as "American Made".

 

The last time I drove there.... It sure looked liked it employed USA workers. And the parts that they were making went to cars and trucks made in the USA and overseas....

 

\

Read more about it..

 

Futaba

Edited August 4, 2008 by mettech

[V8-X]

Therefore, I would agree with this thread in this one point: I find it a bit un-american to purchase a Toyota Tundra. I understand that people have the right to choose and that is what America is built upon, but I cant help feeling a little disgust when I see someone driving a Tundra. Its not better than any one of the big 3's trucks. Its not more efficient, it cant tow any more, its chassis is no where near as strong, it doesn't look any better... so why would anyone buy one?

 

Simply because it has a Toyota symbol on it and they've been brain washed or because they think they need 381hp/401lb-ft in a 1/2 ton truck. Of course most claim to be former domestic 1/2 ton owners and state they jumped ship because of the powertrain.

 

Most Tundra owners I've spoken to, which are quite a few, they can only talk about the power that it puts to the ground. They all brag about being able to tow 10.8K lbs, but not one has tried, let alone put anything in the bed. Not one has spoken about it's towing capabilities, or the chrome rusting at 5K miles, or the tailgate separating or transmission shutter, or the air vents moving by themselves, or the severe bed bounce that Toyota's only fix is to put weight in the bed, or the crappy paint used that's already fading/flaking (which is so bad people are petitioning, see link), and so on.

 

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/200...ality-petition/

 

http://friendsite.com/users/petitions/sign...nt+Quality.html

[chiefstang]

It appears to me it's considerably more patriotic to buy a Honda Accord than a Ford Fusion.... Going by the numbers. My 08 Mustang only has 65% US content, so buying that was not very patriotic also. Fortunately....I buy what I want....for other reasons, so this doesn't matter to me.

 

I'm glad to see the myth of all this buy American propaganda begin to show up. It has nothing to do with being patroitic. BTW....When you buy a Honda, profits do not go back to Japan. Some may, but not all. How do you think they build all those new plants and hire all those US workers? When Ford and GM, who are huge sellers of cars in Europe, sell cars there, does the money come back here. No....it stays there for corporate use mainly. They build plants and hire workers.

 

I will say this about being patriotic. When Ford agrees to make a totally 100% content car, with 100% American workers, I will buy it. Otherwise I think this guilt trip being laid on us is just UAW propaganda. It's not even from Ford, because Ford knows it would be hypocrital of them to take that position. They are a global company, building plants, hiring workers, and sourcing parts all over the world. They don't pretend otherwise.

How loyal is Ford to it's US work force? They replace you in a instant with a Mexican work force the minute they get a chance.

By the numbers... For every 2500 Fords sold 81 Americans are employed for one year. For every 2500 Chevy's sold, 71 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Toyotas sold, 27 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Hondas sold, 12 Americans are employed. Also, if you get into the engineering and prts companies that support the actual factories buying 1 Fusion built in Mexico supports a staggering 13 TIMES the American workers than a Honda built at their Alabama plant. The true king of the hill is Chrysler which employs 83 workers per 2500 cars sold. I can understand a little better if Ford were not building a reliable product, but right now we are at the top of the heap in that department too. The Camry is the top selling car in America right now. Consumer Reports does not recommend the Camry, but highly recommends the Fusion/Milan. The Tundra is the lowest rated truck for reliability in any class, while the F-150 is the highest rated. So PLEASE stop saying it is more Patriotic to buy a Honda than a Ford. I hate to see you come across looking naive. Propoganda? What is this Conspiracy Theory? Where's Mel Gibson. If I keep sailing East, will I fall off the planet?

[chiefstang]

Try this link:Jobs per car

[mettech]

By the numbers... For every 2500 Fords sold 81 Americans are employed for one year. For every 2500 Chevy's sold, 71 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Toyotas sold, 27 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Hondas sold, 12 Americans are employed. Also, if you get into the engineering and prts companies that support the actual factories buying 1 Fusion built in Mexico supports a staggering 13 TIMES the American workers than a Honda built at their Alabama plant. The true king of the hill is Chrysler which employs 83 workers per 2500 cars sold. I can understand a little better if Ford were not building a reliable product, but right now we are at the top of the heap in that department too. The Camry is the top selling car in America right now. Consumer Reports does not recommend the Camry, but highly recommends the Fusion/Milan. The Tundra is the lowest rated truck for reliability in any class, while the F-150 is the highest rated. So PLEASE stop saying it is more Patriotic to buy a Honda than a Ford. I hate to see you come across looking naive. Propoganda? What is this Conspiracy Theory? Where's Mel Gibson. If I keep sailing East, will I fall off the planet?

 

Talk about generalizing data. :reading:

[Ralph Greene]

I agree with you 100% that Ford makes better than competent products. I have a garage full of them.

[V8-X]

The Camry is the top selling car in America right now. Consumer Reports does not recommend the Camry, but highly recommends the Fusion/Milan. The Tundra is the lowest rated truck for reliability in any class, while the F-150 is the highest rated.

 

Actually it's only the V6 6spd Camry that isn't recommended. CR still recommends all other model Camry's. Not sure if the Tundra is the lowest rated truck, but the F150 is #2 (#1 1/2 ton). The Silverado 2500 has taken the #1 spot the last 2 years based on JD Power results.

[bb62]

1st - How do you know I don't need a truck, and that I can get along on a Japanese Civic? How arrogant of you to imply that I should just get a Civic instead of what I need.

 

2nd - Your calculations are not correct - at $4.00 per gallon of gas, 53% of that is crude oil. http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...tml/petbro.html In addition, the US imports about 60% of our crude oil. So, on average - $40,000 * .52 * .60 = $12,720 of the 40k you described goes mostly to Canada and Mexico for crude oil. I buy gas here in the Mtn west from Sinclair that uses only domestic crude for this area. Also, of my 40k in life of the vehicle gas cost is 5-6k of tax used to fix the roads both you and I drive on. Buying a Civic contributes nothing to our roads, but contributes nicely to the roads and transportation system in Japan.

 

3rd - Domestic content of vehicles is spun by the imports to look better than it actually is. Japanese companies that use other Japanese companies operating in the US for parts suppliers show it as domestic content. You may be fooled, but I am not.

 

4th - Japan is our ally?? Last I heard they pulled funding and support out of Iraq/Afghanistan 5 years ago.

 

Just look at it this way: Ichiro Suzuki plays for the Seattle Mariners, he is still Japanese. Honda and Toyota assemble cars in the US, they are still Japanese.

 

The bottom line here is real simple: If all this globalization, cheap labor and goods, foreign investment, and foreign owned factories etc. was good for the USA as we have been told for the last 15years, then don't you think we would be seeing positive results by now? The deeper we buy in to this, the worse it gets.

 

This is why its difficult arguing with people who are stupid.

 

1. My initial supposition was for those posers who really don't need a truck (which are most of the truck buyers out there). I fully support the need for any person who needs a truck to buy a domestic for his or her trade.

 

2. Your argument is not valid because if the hypothetical Mr. F150 died tomorrow, it would only subtract from the incremental fuel usage and not from the base level of fuel used in this country. This is the mistake most people make confusing an "accounted" look versus an "incremental" look. And since both refined gasoline and the base crude oil are both being imported now, it is the effect on the margin that defines the requirement to use the entire $4.00 per gallon number.

 

3. Which is why I cut the numbers down for the Civic and why I inflated the F150. I actually used to do these calculations for Ford when Ford made the CV/GM an import. Those number calculated by the "Level Playing Field" are completely bogus.

 

4. Japan is our ally from every possible perspective. They are a G8 member who have ulitized their excess cash to support US position for the last 25 years. The Japanese are very skittish about any appearance of militarism given their behavior in WW2 and usually just allow their military to support logistical requirements rather than any combat force structure. When the active military thrusts of the initial phase of the war were over, the Japanese felt they had no more role to play.

Edited August 4, 2008 by bb62

[bb62]

Talk about generalizing data. :reading:

 

It's worse than that. The "ratio" they calculate uses line assembly workers as a surrogate for the entire company's content level. The 80K workers for Ford given their level of sales is way overstated for their capacity utilization. Ford really needs to cut out nearly a third more of their UAW headcount to become competitive. Second, the assembly jobs don't take into account the bulk of the content in the supplied components. In the cost structure of any vehicle the assembly plant labor only accounts for about 11% of the cost. Engineering accounts for about 13%, profits from 8-15% based on the vehicle and the rest is purchased components. And the purchased components for the imports is NOT radically different than that of the domestics. This is what the purchasing department of F/GM/C have been driving to achieve as well.

[Kev-Mo]

This is why its difficult arguing with people who are stupid.

 

Name calling - why does it always comes down to that. I will not resort to calling you stupid, since you obviously put a lot of thought (and emotion) in your posts. I do however, believe you are wrong.

 

The basis of your argument is that 100% of the $4.00 per gallon price of gas is considered an import, and the money goes to enemies.

 

Facts once again:

Crude oil makes up about 53% of the price of gas.

US imports about 60% of its crude (may be more of late, but will not change the outcome of the debate).

Canada is the number 1 supplier of crude oil to the US.

So:

In your example, a truck uses $40k of gasoline in its lifetime. I argue that 47% of that would be Logistics/Distribution, refining and taxes - all American industries. Gosh, at least admit that on average, 20% right off the top is tax for roads and other transportation infrastructure. Yes, I belive the numbers clearly indicate we are better off using imported oil and producing our oun cars, than replacing imported oil with imported cars.

 

Funny, how you count the components produced by Japanese companies operating here in the US who supply Honda as 'domestic content', but you refuse to acknowledge the American content of a gallon of gas even when presented the real numbers.

[Kev-Mo]

By the numbers... For every 2500 Fords sold 81 Americans are employed for one year. For every 2500 Chevy's sold, 71 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Toyotas sold, 27 Americans are employed. For every 2500 Hondas sold, 12 Americans are employed. Also, if you get into the engineering and prts companies that support the actual factories buying 1 Fusion built in Mexico supports a staggering 13 TIMES the American workers than a Honda built at their Alabama plant. The true king of the hill is Chrysler which employs 83 workers per 2500 cars sold. I can understand a little better if Ford were not building a reliable product, but right now we are at the top of the heap in that department too. The Camry is the top selling car in America right now. Consumer Reports does not recommend the Camry, but highly recommends the Fusion/Milan. The Tundra is the lowest rated truck for reliability in any class, while the F-150 is the highest rated. So PLEASE stop saying it is more Patriotic to buy a Honda than a Ford. I hate to see you come across looking naive. Propoganda? What is this Conspiracy Theory? Where's Mel Gibson. If I keep sailing East, will I fall off the planet?

 

 

This good! Really breaks it down to numbers anyone can understand. Good summary for those who think a Honda or Toyota assembled in the US is American. Of course, those who believe that Honda and Toyota are now just as American because they operate here will spin this as irrelevant.

[mettech]

This good! Really breaks it down to numbers anyone can understand. Good summary for those who think a Honda or Toyota assembled in the US is American. Of course, those who believe that Honda and Toyota are now just as American because they operate here will spin this as irrelevant.

 

Fact:

The Accord manufacturing employs more USA workers than the Fusion.

 

Fact:

Many cars and truck made by the "American 3" have foreign made components in them. Some companies that are listed as "American Made" components are owned by foreign companies.

 

Fact:

All of the data to prove these facts are listed in this thread.

 

 

Note:

I will not buy another car or truck that is not made in the USA and it must have 60% "American made" parts in it.

 

 

If a widget that is being made in the USA and employs USA workers...... Then it is an American made product.