Wrong to buy American?

[FordFanForEver]

Why does the Flag waving always seem to go hand-in-hand with right wingers/Reagan/and a Christian God? People are tired of American values being sold as a political commodity. Someone says you have to be "this" and "this" to be a good American....they feel manipulated.

There are plenty of Good Americans who won't be pigeon-holed. Society has changed, it's still evolving.....every day.

 

Personally I hated Reagan, the so called "great communicator" was a tool and was already suffering from dimentia.

 

Unfortunately many people feel the manipulation extends to "Buy American" when to me it's basic economic sense. But all things are not equal. Some American stuff is junk (so are some Japanese, German, Swedish products etc. etc.). Sometimes there isn't even a choice anymore....try buying an American made LCD HD TV!

 

Anyway....all of my new cars have been American, and only one used car was an import (Mazda).

 

I believe in god and i attend Church sunday morning, sunday evening and every wendsday.

[FordFanForEver]

I'm an Athiest, actually, but my point is, like him or hate him, Reagan toook a struggling economy, and boosted it tremendously by instilling pride in America, and American produucts. If we had an inferior product, then my argument wouldn't make as much sense, but with the quality, and lineup being equal or better than the imports, why is it asking alot to consider, or maybe even buy a Ford when it would clearly help everyone on this side of the pond so much? I find it VERY sad that sugguesting that people buy American on a Ford forum upsets so many people. I guess we're in an even worse spot than I thought. It's not as though buying a domestic car is a sacrifice anymore. Even with Ford's typically conservative styling, we still have better lines than Toyota. I guess it's all subjective, but they build old lady cars. By the way, my HDTV uses Texas Instruments parts. They're American right? Just kidding.

 

Mark 16:16

[chiefstang]

Mark 16:16

Just when I was starting to like you... You damn me. Dammit. All in the name of an invisible guy in the sky.

[Edstock]

Mark 16:16 (King James Version)

 

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

Everybody's entitled to their opinion. We'll all find out, soon enough.

[retro-man]

Let me ramble for a minute. Ok, to me, Reagan got the whole anti-tax, anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-collective effort (every man for himself), pro-globalization thing started. (Yes, I know, Clinton signed NAFTA - but by the time he was in office, it was already impossible to be a real Democrat thanks to the success of the Reagan revolution. And now, we are beginning to bear the fruit.

 

Just as many on this board (grbeck) have laid the blame for the Carter years' malaise squarely at the foot of Roosevelt's New Deal - which was at the time seen as a great success - and its ideological successor Johnson's Great Society. If that is true, then those policies took about 40 years to really ruin everything. The Reagan revolution is now 28 years old, and we have crumbling infrastructure, meta-financial instruments that didn't exist 30 years ago responsible for a mortgage crisis and gross manipulation of energy markets, and one of the most expensive and unequally distributed health care systems in the world. And a gutted manufacturing sector.

 

Personally, I buy domestic whenever possible. If I need underwear, I go to American Apparel (also happens to be the best you can buy). If I need a flashlight, it's going to be a Mag Light. Made in Ontario California. Ok, the LCD TV is a Sony, but it's manufactured in the U.S.. Stereo: Dynaco and Ohm - both made in New York. Car: T-Bird made in Wixom. I always always always look for the domestic product first. Some of these things I bought simply because they were the best. Some I bought to support domestic manufacturing. Some, for both reasons. The T-Bird has not turned out to be a very reliable car: on the contrary I am sorry to say*. But it is gorgeous.

 

*And say what you want: this is not my imagination. It amazes me the people who pin Americans preference for foreign cars on some kind of mass hypnosis or mass hysteria, without being able to offer the slightest explanation as to how this supposed self-delusion came about - as if it were some form of unexplainable collective insanity that just randomly struck for no reason.

 

I'll tell you how it came about: REALITY. Enough people got hosed over for enough years, while Japan was working its butt off to become a real player that people learned that the Japanese do, generally (there is certainly variability among and within the Japanese makes) generally make pretty good cars. And the domestics for so long didn't. I have said this before, and I'll say it again: I know the world doesn't revolve around me, but I was born at the peak of the baby-boom years - the biggest consumer demographic that the U.S. had ever seen, and the demographic that now controls the lion's share of disposable income in the U.S.. I got my drivers license in 1972. I started a household (i.e. became a serious consumer) in 1980. Reflect for a moment on the raw sewage that Detroit was pumping into the lots and showrooms during those years when I, and millions like me, were becoming consumers and developing brand loyalties. So now, Detroit is trying to dig its way out. Well, it's gonna be a long, long climb, because they dug that hole deep! And they did it themselves. Let me tell you another thing: I have seen Detroit, and what was left of its consumer base, ignore the realities of our dependence on foreign oil through repeated cycles that should have caused us to wise up - from the first OPEC embargo, right up to and including 9/11. You want to know why Detroit is in as much pain as they are right now? Ask all those wisenheimers on here who won't drive anything smaller than a Mack truck because nothing else can make them feel quite as manly. [/ ] So, wise up, start giving some serious thought about what's the right thing to do, and then put your money where your mouth is.

[Edstock]

Thanks, Retro, great post.

[chiefstang]

Let me ramble for a minute. Ok, to me, Reagan got the whole anti-tax, anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-collective effort (every man for himself), pro-globalization thing started. (Yes, I know, Clinton signed NAFTA - but by the time he was in office, it was already impossible to be a real Democrat thanks to the success of the Reagan revolution. And now, we are beginning to bear the fruit.

 

Just as many on this board (grbeck) have laid the blame for the Carter years' malaise squarely at the foot of Roosevelt's New Deal - which was at the time seen as a great success - and its ideological successor Johnson's Great Society. If that is true, then those policies took about 40 years to really ruin everything. The Reagan revolution is now 28 years old, and we have crumbling infrastructure, meta-financial instruments that didn't exist 30 years ago responsible for a mortgage crisis and gross manipulation of energy markets, and one of the most expensive and unequally distributed health care systems in the world. And a gutted manufacturing sector.

 

Personally, I buy domestic whenever possible. If I need underwear, I go to American Apparel (also happens to be the best you can buy). If I need a flashlight, it's going to be a Mag Light. Made in Ontario California. Ok, the LCD TV is a Sony, but it's manufactured in the U.S.. Stereo: Dynaco and Ohm - both made in New York. Car: T-Bird made in Wixom. I always always always look for the domestic product first. Some of these things I bought simply because they were the best. Some I bought to support domestic manufacturing. Some, for both reasons. The T-Bird has not turned out to be a very reliable car: on the contrary I am sorry to say*. But it is gorgeous.

 

*And say what you want: this is not my imagination. It amazes me the people who pin Americans preference for foreign cars on some kind of mass hypnosis or mass hysteria, without being able to offer the slightest explanation as to how this supposed self-delusion came about - as if it were some form of unexplainable collective insanity that just randomly struck for no reason.

 

I'll tell you how it came about: REALITY. Enough people got hosed over for enough years, while Japan was working its butt off to become a real player that people learned that the Japanese do, generally (there is certainly variability among and within the Japanese makes) generally make pretty good cars. And the domestics for so long didn't. I have said this before, and I'll say it again: I know the world doesn't revolve around me, but I was born at the peak of the baby-boom years - the biggest consumer demographic that the U.S. had ever seen, and the demographic that now controls the lion's share of disposable income in the U.S.. I got my drivers license in 1972. I started a household (i.e. became a serious consumer) in 1980. Reflect for a moment on the raw sewage that Detroit was pumping into the lots and showrooms during those years when I, and millions like me, were becoming consumers and developing brand loyalties. So now, Detroit is trying to dig its way out. Well, it's gonna be a long, long climb, because they dug that hole deep! And they did it themselves. Let me tell you another thing: I have seen Detroit, and what was left of its consumer base, ignore the realities of our dependence on foreign oil through repeated cycles that should have caused us to wise up - from the first OPEC embargo, right up to and including 9/11. You want to know why Detroit is in as much pain as they are right now? Ask all those wisenheimers on here who won't drive anything smaller than a Mack truck because nothing else can make them feel quite as manly. [/ ] So, wise up, start giving some serious thought about what's the right thing to do, and then put your money where your mouth is.

Wow, that's a mouthful, but well said. With that being said, though, and after giving it serious thought, and doing some homework, is there a reason NOT to buy American that outweighs the pros to picking up a domestic car, or product. It all starts with the consumer putting their hard earned dollars back into a weak economy to boost it so that they can in the longrun get more dollars back. Don't get me wrong, one person buying a Focus isn't going to change everything, but if an entire country's mindset can be swung...

[suv_guy_19]

Mark 16:16 (King James Version)

 

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

Everybody's entitled to their opinion. We'll all find out, soon enough.

 

Agreed.

[FordFanForEver]

Just when I was starting to like you... You damn me. Dammit. All in the name of an invisible guy in the sky.

 

I don't even think we ever met before.

[96 Pony]

I agree, but then there's the issue of how those profits are then spent. Is it inherently wrong to buy a Honda or Toyota and have [some of] the profit go toward investing in the US economy by building more factories in the US, which in turn employs more American citizens, which in turn increases their ability to buy products and support the American economy? Or is it better to buy a union-built Ford and in turn enhance their building of factories in Mexico that employ Mexican citizens?

 

Everything you said is true. Honda, Toyota, etc. do contribute to the economy. And I know that Ford is no longer "All American." And I know that the Big Three dug themselves into a hole in the 70's - early 80's that will take forever to get out of. But dammit - this is just wrong!

 

Yes, I am a being biased now. Cornelius Ford was awesome - nice down-to-earth people, gave me a few breaks on fixing the 'Bird (even tho that took a "specialized" mechanic to do so ) Actually invited me to bring the 'Bird over for their Mustang/Thunderbird show shortly after they opened their new facility.

 

I am also pissed at Ford for this because they insisted that they move out to the new Auto Mall when their old facility - complete with a 1940's "Ford Repair And Service" neon sign was doing alright.

 

I just don't get people not understanding that buying a product from an American manufacturer is good for all Americans in the big picture. People in my town now are wringing their hands about the loss of taxes Cornelius generated, yet they will go out and drive their Prius when in fact, Prius' are one of the biggest scams in the automotive world.

[fbmphil]

Well, you live in San Francisco, there's your explanation I bet there's people in California who've never ever HEARD of Ford, and I'm only half kidding.

[96 Pony]

Well, you live in San Francisco, there's your explanation I bet there's people in California who've never ever HEARD of Ford, and I'm only half kidding.

 

Well, you are right there.

 

I still get a LOT of compliments on the 'Bird and I swear, half the time when I tell people it's a Ford they get this quizzical look on their face.

 

I am FROM Chicago. I am currently stuck in San Francisco because of work.

 

And I cannot wait until the real estate market goes back up and I can go back to Champaign. *GO ILLINI!*

Edited August 3, 2008 by 96 Pony

[battyr]

Well the UK paper The Guardian did a poll of Brits. Somehow, I doubt that US citizens would be much different, except for an Elvis fixation:

 

· 1 Area 51 exists to investigate aliens (48%)

· 2 9/11 was orchestrated by the US government (38%)

· 3 Apollo landing was a hoax (35%)

· 4 Diana and Dodi were murdered (32%)

· 5 The Illuminati secret society and masons are trying to take over the world (25%)

· 6 Scientologists rule Hollywood (17% )

· 7 Barcodes are really intended to control people (7%)

· 8 Microsoft sends messages via Wingdings (6%)

· 9 US let Pearl Harbour happen (5%)

· 10 The world is run by dinosaur-like reptiles (3%) :hysterical:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/31/1

 

Half of these things are true. The other half are a bunch of wacko theories. I am not allowed to tell you which ones are true.

[battyr]

Currently, Ford's quality is on par, or better than the foriegn "quality leaders" but people still flockto them like lemmings over a cliff. It's almost as though they're making a political statement with their purchase. And that's really sad. We need strong leadership that isn't afraid to ask us to support our country.

 

How many years did it take Toyota to convince Americans that their cars are good? How long will it take Ford?

[Kev-Mo]

Definition of "Global Economy"

 

Extract as much wealth from the USA as possible before the dumb Americans figure out that the rest of the world is screwing them while pretending to be thier friend (i.e Toyota).

 

It is so obvious really, all this globalization, cheap labor, foriegn investment deemed necessary and good for the US economy - oddly enough, we have yet to see any real benefits! Our economy stinks and is getting worse! The more market share foreign companies grab, the worse our economy gets.

 

Want the truth? Look 180 degrees from what you are being told.

 

I am buying American! I will buy the last F-150 that rolls off the line before they shut the entire company down and drive it for the rest of my life! I will never drive a Japanese car, not one from there, or one from here made with parts from there.

[Kev-Mo]

Well, you live in San Francisco, there's your explanation I bet there's people in California who've never ever HEARD of Ford, and I'm only half kidding.

 

 

 

You live in SF - Bummer! That means Nancy Pelosi is representing you in Congress!!

[armadamaster]

I work for a Ford dealer in upstate, NY and recently we ran an ad that asked people to buy American. The backlash was quick, and surprising. People were upset that in a "global economy" why were we trying to mislead people. Now I know that even Ford is guilty of outsourcing some of it's labor, but they have to to remain competitive. But at the end of the day, Ford is an American company that employs and supports thousands and thousands of American people. Toyota employs just enough Americans to brag about it. But my biggest concern is why is it bad to ask the people to support our great nation in a time of economic need. In the 80's we were in a recession similar to the one we're dealing with now, and I remember Reagan emploring the people to buy American... I remember the proud little American flags with the "Made in the U.S.A" adorning everything from kitchen sets to coffee tables. And I remember people being proud to buy them. It worked then, and I would like to believe it could work now. So where are the cries for patriotism now? I know our foreign policy is not a popular one now, but our economy needs help, and nobody wants to step up to the plate and ask people to be accountable and do their part. I just want to cry every time I see a Toyota with an American flag on the antenna. Is it bad to buy American, bad to be American? I don't think so, but people had better wake up and see that buying that Nissan is hurting us... Alot. Gos bless us, and God help us if somebody doesn't man up, and do what Reagan was able to. Obama? McCain? Bush?...Anybody? No, huh? Guess it's up to the people.

 

Because way too many brainwashed idiots with way too much of a line of credit.

 

I recall in my short lifetime of three decades a time where cities/counties/municipalities buying foreign makes for their fleets was a big no-no, it was un-American and rightfully so IMHO.

 

Now the mentality is if they don't buy a foreign automaker's Prius they are on the outs instead for not caring about the environment.

[timmm55]

I believe in god and i attend Church sunday morning, sunday evening and every wendsday.

 

 

I'm impressed!

 

 

 

 

 

 

not

[timmm55]

Ok, the LCD TV is a Sony, but it's manufactured in the U.S

 

 

I did get a Sony HD LCD, I remembered that some were made here. The salesperson didn't seem to know.

[FordFanForEver]

I'm impressed!

 

 

 

 

 

 

not

 

Man you had me FOOLED!!!!!

[8A4RE]

Let me ramble for a minute. Ok, to me, Reagan got the whole anti-tax, anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-collective effort (every man for himself), pro-globalization thing started. (Yes, I know, Clinton signed NAFTA - but by the time he was in office, it was already impossible to be a real Democrat thanks to the success of the Reagan revolution. And now, we are beginning to bear the fruit.

 

Just as many on this board (grbeck) have laid the blame for the Carter years' malaise squarely at the foot of Roosevelt's New Deal - which was at the time seen as a great success - and its ideological successor Johnson's Great Society. If that is true, then those policies took about 40 years to really ruin everything. The Reagan revolution is now 28 years old, and we have crumbling infrastructure, meta-financial instruments that didn't exist 30 years ago responsible for a mortgage crisis and gross manipulation of energy markets, and one of the most expensive and unequally distributed health care systems in the world. And a gutted manufacturing sector.

 

Personally, I buy domestic whenever possible. If I need underwear, I go to American Apparel (also happens to be the best you can buy). If I need a flashlight, it's going to be a Mag Light. Made in Ontario California. Ok, the LCD TV is a Sony, but it's manufactured in the U.S.. Stereo: Dynaco and Ohm - both made in New York. Car: T-Bird made in Wixom. I always always always look for the domestic product first. Some of these things I bought simply because they were the best. Some I bought to support domestic manufacturing. Some, for both reasons. The T-Bird has not turned out to be a very reliable car: on the contrary I am sorry to say*. But it is gorgeous.

 

*And say what you want: this is not my imagination. It amazes me the people who pin Americans preference for foreign cars on some kind of mass hypnosis or mass hysteria, without being able to offer the slightest explanation as to how this supposed self-delusion came about - as if it were some form of unexplainable collective insanity that just randomly struck for no reason.

 

I'll tell you how it came about: REALITY. Enough people got hosed over for enough years, while Japan was working its butt off to become a real player that people learned that the Japanese do, generally (there is certainly variability among and within the Japanese makes) generally make pretty good cars. And the domestics for so long didn't. I have said this before, and I'll say it again: I know the world doesn't revolve around me, but I was born at the peak of the baby-boom years - the biggest consumer demographic that the U.S. had ever seen, and the demographic that now controls the lion's share of disposable income in the U.S.. I got my drivers license in 1972. I started a household (i.e. became a serious consumer) in 1980. Reflect for a moment on the raw sewage that Detroit was pumping into the lots and showrooms during those years when I, and millions like me, were becoming consumers and developing brand loyalties. So now, Detroit is trying to dig its way out. Well, it's gonna be a long, long climb, because they dug that hole deep! And they did it themselves. Let me tell you another thing: I have seen Detroit, and what was left of its consumer base, ignore the realities of our dependence on foreign oil through repeated cycles that should have caused us to wise up - from the first OPEC embargo, right up to and including 9/11. You want to know why Detroit is in as much pain as they are right now? Ask all those wisenheimers on here who won't drive anything smaller than a Mack truck because nothing else can make them feel quite as manly. [/ ] So, wise up, start giving some serious thought about what's the right thing to do, and then put your money where your mouth is.

 

As usual, I enjoy reading your long winded and intellectual posts retro-man. But at what point is it VITAL that we buy whats made here?

 

One thing I would like to point out is the example people always seem to use of comparing the origin of televisions to automobiles. Now that I understand the complexity of the auto industry and the countless spin-off jobs that are created, it aggravates me when someone is quick to ask me were my Mitsubishi TV set was made, when I preach the importance of buying domestic. The domestic auto industry is said to employee up to 10% of the American workforce in some capacity. Of that, only 2% reflect employment at transplants in America. I'm not sure how many people it takes to make a big screen TV, but my guess television manufacturing does not put a dent in the American economy. On the other hand, data shows that domestic auto-manufacturing and the "Big Three" DO drive the local economy. It is sad to see some of the narrow minded and selfish veiws of some that feel they must buy what is "best for them". The irony is, some of these same fools rely on a paycheck from the Big Three!

 

I always choose American (domestic) first when I make a BIG investment. My vehicles are always Ford's, my toys are by Polaris, my lawn tracters are by John Deere. It is my gut feeling that items of this magnatude contribute greatly to the local economy. Heck, Polaris even makes its own engines in the USA.

 

Some are quick to point out that this is America and they can purchase whatever the hell they want. But when we choose to make a large investment in a foreign product, we choose to make a large investment in a foreign economy. Why would we want to ever do that?

Edited August 3, 2008 by 8A4RE

[F250]

!

Edited August 3, 2008 by F250

[F250]

*And say what you want: this is not my imagination. It amazes me the people who pin Americans preference for foreign cars on some kind of mass hypnosis or mass hysteria...

I got my drivers license in 1972. I started a household (i.e. became a serious consumer) in 1980. Reflect for a moment on the raw sewage that Detroit was pumping into the lots and showrooms during those years when I, and millions like me, were becoming consumers and developing brand loyalties. So now, Detroit is trying to dig its way out. Well, it's gonna be a long, long climb, because they dug that hole deep!

 

Everyone remembers the "raw sewage" from Detroit thirty years ago...strange how people still complain about domestic cars from the 70's yet they forget the raw sewage Japanese cars from the 60's. By the way, I still see a few of those bad American cars from the 70's driving around this area but I never see any of the "superior" Jap cars from those years.

 

Face it, right now Ford is building vehicles that match or beat the foreign competition in quality, dependability and capability so buying a Ford is great choice. Even if you don't care that your purchase supports a lot of American workers. And being able to slap an American flag sticker on it without looking like an idiot is just icing on the cake.

[retro-man]

Everyone remembers the "raw sewage" from Detroit thirty years ago...strange how people still complain about domestic cars from the 70's yet they forget the raw sewage Japanese cars from the 60's. By the way, I still see a few of those bad American cars from the 70's driving around this area but I never see any of the "superior" Jap cars from those years.

 

Face it, right now Ford is building vehicles that match or beat the foreign competition in quality, dependability and capability so buying a Ford is great choice. Even if you don't care that your purchase supports a lot of American workers. And being able to slap an American flag sticker on it without looking like an idiot is just icing on the cake.

Again, I always always always buy domestic first. My point was, looking at the demographic make-up of those who have the spending money, it is no mystery why Detroit is playing catch-up now. The Japanese may have had some false starts in the '60s, but I can tell you that the Toyota Corona ('65 - '68) and Datsun 510, were great little cars that struggled against great prejudice. Japanese manufactured goods, and especially cars, were regarded as a joke in the 60s (which is probably the origin of your belief that they were all crap during those years. They weren't.) The words "Made in Japan" were a punchline during my childhood. Then, during the 70s, they were gaining acceptance, and improving, at the very time the demographic with the money was reaching maturity and Detroit was going down the toilet. We heard many excuses during those years: "Well, we have these terrible safety and emissions standards to deal with, and it's just too hard." Well, the imports had to meet those same standards, all the while gaining market acceptance and struggling against old prejudices. They succeeded, Detroit failed. Detroit at that time, certainly had to struggle against a labor differential, and America's answer to that (perhaps the wrong answer) was Reagan.

 

In my childhood, TVs, radios, and stereos manufactured in the U.S. included RCA, Zenith, GE, Motorola, Philco (Ford), Westinghouse, Magnavox, Packard Bell, .... I know I'm missing some. I'm sure they did make up a sizable portion of the economy then. Everything was made here. Cameras, projectors, radios, tape recorders, we had 3 viable domestic civilian airplane manufacturers. And the thing is, other countries had theirs too. When I first travelled to Japan in 1978, anything you picked up on a Japanese store shelf was pretty much made in Japan. You go there now, and it's all made in China just like here. They are building shopping malls on old factory sites. Out with living wage Sony, in with minimum wage GAP. As I often point out, International trade accounted for around 3% of U.S. GDP in 1962. Now it is over 33%. And what has it gotten us? Squat I would argue. Jack. Diddley. Squat. In my ideal world, you would be able to find whatever you need, domestically produced, by people making a living wage. We would eat apples in the Autumn and strawberries and melons in the Summer, just like God intended. We would buy lacquer boxes from Japan and Tea from China, and they would buy Jack Daniels, and the occasional Harley Davidson from us, and that would pretty much be the extent of international trade. We wouldn't be trying to cannibalize each others living wage industrial base or kill off each-others agricultural traditions. Trade would be "free" in the sense that no goods from any country would be prohibited, but tariffs would be in place to effectively equalize levels of environmental and labor protection (including minimum wage set at the poverty level for a family of 4). In an ideal world.

 

Detroit's quality is on par now - I accept that, notwithstanding the spotty quality of my T-Bird. If they can produce another car that excites me the way the T-Bird did, with the same great quality that my old '98 Escort Wagon (Hermosillo built) had, and perhaps some cutting edge environmental technology (how about a Verve, with a Tesla Motors drivetrain, and cradle-to-cradle materials, built in Canton Ohio - for under $30k? Can it be done?) I'll be there.

Edited August 3, 2008 by retro-man

[94bronco]

Definition of "Global Economy"

 

Extract as much wealth from the USA as possible before the dumb Americans figure out that the rest of the world is screwing them while pretending to be thier friend (i.e Toyota).

 

It is so obvious really, all this globalization, cheap labor, foriegn investment deemed necessary and good for the US economy - oddly enough, we have yet to see any real benefits! Our economy stinks and is getting worse! The more market share foreign companies grab, the worse our economy gets.

 

Want the truth? Look 180 degrees from what you are being told.

 

I am buying American! I will buy the last F-150 that rolls off the line before they shut the entire company down and drive it for the rest of my life! I will never drive a Japanese car, not one from there, or one from here made with parts from there.

Absolutely, I would rather sit at home for the rest of my life than own or drive a Jap car. I don't care if they built one of their cars in my backyard I would still never buy that garbage.