Marginal Economist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I would say that Jim Click is skirting the law on truthful advertising............ and is solidly in the grey area. LOL, what an individual dealership wants to advertise is his business. It has nothing to do with what Ford has for discounts. If they want to play games with MSRP (add-on paint protection at $1250 and such), to make their 50% off add "appear" to be legit................ well, they are the ones who will get to pay for the poor publicity they get when customers come in expecting to truly get 50% off of a truck. I will tell you that Jim Click is doing this to compete with local Dodge stores that are advertising 50% off. Is it right................ no. Does it prove your point................... no. It just proves that they are being short sighted. Frankly, I would love to see their add-ons to get to an MSRP of over $36K for that truck. Talk about a big ol pile of steaming BS. BTW, we know you have never been to any of these dealers. You wouldn't buy a Ford if it came with Pamela Anderson handcuffed to the back seat. Jim Click FLM is a solid dealership. They have won the Presidents Award 4 of the last 6 years. They own Tucson and steal a lot of other business from around Southern Arizona. As for add-ons, most dealerships in Arizona will preload window tint and security alarms. The proximity of Tucson to Mexico make security systems a very popular option, and window tint is a must over 105 degrees. Jim Click also preloads all their trucks with Ford spray in bedliners. All trucks (except the stripper fleet models) that don't come with step bars also have Ford chrome step bars preloaded. I figure those 4 items come out to about 2K. I don't know what else they put on this truck, but I've seen their vehicles with wheels and tires, custom leather, and just about every other option available. I don't think the argument of maroney MSRP vs an addendum MSRP holds weight. Unless they are using a "market adjustment" to get to the price, I think they can claim the 50% off. They are aggressively going after their market and I commend their efforts. If more dealership swould attack their market share Ford would be much better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I don't think the argument of maroney MSRP vs an addendum MSRP holds weight. Unless they are using a "market adjustment" to get to the price, I think they can claim the 50% off. They are aggressively going after their market and I commend their efforts. If more dealership swould attack their market share Ford would be much better off. 1) I think Maroney vs. Addendum carries a heckuva lot of weight if your central assertion is that -=FORD=- is selling vehicles at 50% off MSRP--that is, Ford is providing enough dealer cash & other incentives to move inventory at 50% of their own MSRP. Now, the assertion here has been that Ford is 'selling F150s at 50% off MSRP', but the only example thus uncovered is a vehicle that is chock full o' addendums, and which is selling at roughly a 33% discount off Maroney MSRP. 2) I don't like the FIFTY PERCENT OFF F150!!!!! means of attacking market share. I understand that it's a tough market, and that you have to sell the deal more than normal, but this borders on the self-destructive. Not only is it just this side of bait-and-switch (that 50% off F150 isn't on the Dealer Connection website anymore), but it erodes brand value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) P71 obviously doesn't realize that the comment, was NOT It was an accurate description of a persistent troll. If it appeared "inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane", you might consider that any other words would be obfuscation. Besides, it's not like he was called "a maggot-brained microcephalic son of a syphilitic Tunisian whore", or some more personally-tailored opprobrium. Show me in the TOS where it says it is ok to insult people who don't share the same viewpoint as yourself? Or show me the clause where a statement such as the one I quoted does not qualify as: that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Edited August 20, 2008 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Show me in the TOS where it says it is ok to insult people who don't share the same viewpoint as yourself? Or show me the clause where a statement such as the one I quoted does not qualify as: You will NOT continue to bring up the TOS, as you yourself have violated it even as you have complained about others violating it: You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. So, this bullshit about "well, you started insulting someone so I refuse to do anything"...is crap. relevant parts highlighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 You will NOT continue to bring up the TOS, as you yourself have violated it even as you have complained about others violating it: So, this bullshit about "well, you started insulting someone so I refuse to do anything"...is crap. relevant parts highlighted. So...there will be no swearing on this site anymore? Make it clear and definitive so we know exactly what you are talking about...or is this going to be another rule for only a select few? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) removed Edited August 20, 2008 by RichardJensen Subject is closed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 So...there will be no swearing on this site anymore? Make it clear and definitive so we know exactly what you are talking about...or is this going to be another rule for only a select few? I have told you what to expect. This debate is over. Any further posts relating to YOUR opinions on how the TOS is enforced will be summarily removed. You are not a moderator on this forum, nor are you in a position to hold me, Nick, or Robert accountable for how we administer this forum. You have been warned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) Removed Edited August 20, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 1) I think Maroney vs. Addendum carries a heckuva lot of weight if your central assertion is that -=FORD=- is selling vehicles at 50% off MSRP--that is, Ford is providing enough dealer cash & other incentives to move inventory at 50% of their own MSRP. Now, the assertion here has been that Ford is 'selling F150s at 50% off MSRP', but the only example thus uncovered is a vehicle that is chock full o' addendums, and which is selling at roughly a 33% discount off Maroney MSRP. 2) I don't like the FIFTY PERCENT OFF F150!!!!! means of attacking market share. I understand that it's a tough market, and that you have to sell the deal more than normal, but this borders on the self-destructive. Not only is it just this side of bait-and-switch (that 50% off F150 isn't on the Dealer Connection website anymore), but it erodes brand value. To address your points: 1. Ford does not retail vehicles. Ford is in the wholesale game and puts the money on the books once it is shipped to the dealer. Where do you draw the line in Ford money? Do FDAF promotions count toward the incentives? What about stairstep dealercash? What if a dealership is willing to take a loss (true loss) on the vehicle? MSRP is just that- suggested retail price before additional options. You can think the additional options have no marginal value, but the average truck customer adds $1500 worth of additional equipment to their truck. 1b. 18.3K off of a 30.5K sticker is roughly 40% off. 2. I would love to see dealerships sell the trucks for all the money and build value in the product, but there are a ton of factors working against them. Dodge is offering silly discounts, Chevy has a newer model, Toyota has a perception advantage. Inventories are approaching 5 month supply. Salesmen are leaving dealerships adn being replaced by green peas with little product knowledge. Value is being killed by auction prices, gas prices, supply and demand. If it takes 50% of to get a guy into a Ford instead of a Chevy and the dealership is willing to take the hit, so be it. I'd rather conquest a buyer, impress him during the ownership experience, and have him consider FLM for his next purchase. Ford needs to move product now and can't wait and be proud. If they sell them, Ford will build more. As for the bait and switch, I don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) To address your points:1. Ford does not retail vehicles. Ford is in the wholesale game and puts the money on the books once it is shipped to the dealer. Where do you draw the line in Ford money? Do FDAF promotions count toward the incentives? What about stairstep dealercash? What if a dealership is willing to take a loss (true loss) on the vehicle? MSRP is just that- suggested retail price before additional options. You can think the additional options have no marginal value, but the average truck customer adds $1500 worth of additional equipment to their truck. 2. Ford needs to move product now and can't wait and be proud. If they sell them, Ford will build more. As for the bait and switch, I don't see it. To answer your questions: FDAF promotions? To the extent the money comes from Ford, yes. Stairstep dealer cash? Yes. Willing to take a loss? No. As to additional options having -no- marginal value, I don't believe that. Some do, some don't. I do, however, disagree with people who assure us that Ford is kittying out $18k in total incentives on a $36k truck. == The bait and switch ain't there because they've got ONE vehicle that matches the 50% off ad. So it's not officially a bait-and-switch. But it's as close as you can come to a bait-and-switch without actually pulling a bait-and-switch. Now you see how many times you can fit 'bait-and-switch' into three sentences :P Edited August 20, 2008 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 If some said Ford was ponying up for the 50% off, that is off base. I don't know if other manufacturer's are as well. When I first read about Dodge dealers selling vehicles for half off, it was from Automotive News last month and it was a dealership in NM. The owner was quoted as going 3K behind holdback to hit the number, hoping to make it back with his bodyshop, parts, and service departments. That is a tough nut to crack. I don't know if Chrysler is supporting the 50% deal the full amount at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 just post ONE printed ad LOL, just one...BACK IT UP! Just for you "buddy". You may want to alert your boss to what other Ford dealers are doing so maybe you can actually start selling trucks instead of spending your time posting on BOF! Once again, i await you and Jensens explanation for why this is technically not an ad for 50% off MSRP.............. BACK IT UP WITH REALTY and I'll back off, right now I'd say you are 95% ( thats 5 % less than 100, or 5 one hundreths, or .05.....feel free to write that down ) FULL of crap......... :shades: This being the 3rd time in this thread a 50% ad has been linked to or posted, i guess the one that's full of crap and cant face reality would be you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 And this is the 3rd time that you've posted a BOGUS ad. Notice the word TRADE? That means you have to trade in a vehicle to get the full $7,095 store discount. And I searched on that stock number and it's NOT THERE. But here are some examples of similar vehicles that are in stock: F150 4x2 Supercab XLT MSRP $28,520 GwinnettPlaceFord price: $22,955 F150 4x2 Supercab XLT MSRP $29,065 GwinnettPlaceFord price: $23,408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Notice the word TRADE? That means you have to trade in a vehicle to get the full $7,095 store discount. Well heck, based on the wording of that ad, if I traded in a Ford GT, I should be able to get 100% off MSRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Just for you "buddy". You may want to alert your boss to what other Ford dealers are doing so maybe you can actually start selling trucks instead of spending your time posting on BOF! Once again, i await you and Jensens explanation for why this is technically not an ad for 50% off MSRP.............. This being the 3rd time in this thread a 50% ad has been linked to or posted, i guess the one that's full of crap and cant face reality would be you.... Sure you could "Potentially" get 50% off. But how many will actually qualify for it? Oh yeah like RJ stated, it's not on the lot and do we know if the purchaser actually received 50% off? The top line states "Current Ford Owners", so what about those GM ot Toyota owners being excluded. What discounts are they approved for? Each ad only lists 1 stock #, meaning only one truck on the lot could potentially be sold at 50% off. Doesn't look like a common occurance to me. What exactly are all the details and requirements to get the $7,095 GDF Discount? You must Fianance with Ford Motor Credit to get the $1K discount, but what if you paid cash or had your own Credit Union fianance you? $3K Factory Owner Loyalty discount I believe requires a trade of a 98 or new Ford. So if you don't have one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante hicks Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 You must Fianance with Ford Motor Credit to get the $1K discount, but what if you paid cash or had your own Credit Union fianance you? In order to use FMC, you need to finance 7 grand -- if you want to pay cash, you can pay it off in the first month. There are no prepayment penalties. With the exception of the dealership's questionable discount, everything else is legit money Ford is giving in rebates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Just for you "buddy". You may want to alert your boss to what other Ford dealers are doing so maybe you can actually start selling trucks instead of spending your time posting on BOF! Once again, i await you and Jensens explanation for why this is technically not an ad for 50% off MSRP.............. This being the 3rd time in this thread a 50% ad has been linked to or posted, i guess the one that's full of crap and cant face reality would be you.... off for a day so sorry for no response...buddy....guess that 50% applies to their entire inventory huh? funny that....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) In order to use FMC, you need to finance 7 grand -- if you want to pay cash, you can pay it off in the first month. There are no prepayment penalties. With the exception of the dealership's questionable discount, everything else is legit money Ford is giving in rebates. my guess is the SAME vehicles vin will be advertised for quite a while....someone that goes in to write a check will lose half of the discount...so wheres the 50% now?........bottom line is he backed it up which I will give him cudos...point is what is in print and what happenns are two different things...this deal NEVER happens in reality...but sure raises eyebrows... Edited August 20, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxcomet Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 It's classic "bait and switch" traffic builders and nothing more. It's been done for years albeit perhaps not on quite as a dramatic scale. It nearly always involves a single unit that's been sitting for months due to some weird option combo or color. It's also nearly always "SOLD" when you arrive. How convenient. "However, mr customer, we've got several right over here for just a couple thousand more. Only $30/more a month...I can't believe some of you would even take it seriously regardless of what manufacturer it's coming from. Well, actually, yes I can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Just for you "buddy". You may want to alert your boss to what other Ford dealers are doing so maybe you can actually start selling trucks instead of spending your time posting on BOF! Once again, i await you and Jensens explanation for why this is technically not an ad for 50% off MSRP.............. This being the 3rd time in this thread a 50% ad has been linked to or posted, i guess the one that's full of crap and cant face reality would be you.... follow the yellow brick road LOL....and trade in that car worth 8k but only receive a 3000 ACV.....( actual cash value given by the dealer ) finance thru ford at REGULAR rates ( basicallycapped 2 points over what the dealer buys the money for )....enjoy the marked up add ons and warranties and guess what...the dealer actually MAKES money...other wise they shake your hand and PASS on the deal...easy huh?....what was that about reality?????? funny stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford??-LOL! Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 bottom line is he backed it up which I will give him cudos And on that note, i am done with this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) And on that note, i am done with this thread. seriously.... cudos...reality is it will never be attainable for anyone...I truley HATE this crap and how it reflects / affects those that actually pride themselves in the way they perform ACTUAL business....not misleading sneaky BS pipedreams.....thread should have read ....ONE F-150 POTENTIALLY avail ( if warranted by the selling dealer ) at UP TO but not including 50% off........ Edited August 20, 2008 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 And on that note, i am done with this thread. Fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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