Skilled trade rumors nationwide and at KCAP

[fordxer]

As I said before, but you must have missed it...they are in Preferential Placement......treated no differently than any journeyperson in JSP...except for the fact that they are working in production...

 

You have a choice as a trade when you go to GEN or JSP....whether you want to go back to production and wait for an opening....or go into JSP and wait for an opening...it is a personal voluntary choice and your contractual right.

 

THEY ARE STILL LAID OFF FROM THEIR TRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AND THEY STILL HAVE RECALL RIGHTS WITH A DATE OF ENTRY UP TO AND INCLUDING LEVELING DATE!!!!!!!!!

 

That might be your opinion....but let me offer you a scenario brother/sister:

 

Ford closes a plant....doesn't have any openings at the time in your trade......and what then...

YOU WANT THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO "REDUCE BACK TO PRODUCTION", SO THEY CAN PAY THEIR BILLS, TO GET A NEW DOE?

 

Okay let's take a look at that point you are trying to make.

 

You say you cannot accrue seniority in a classification you are not working in???

 

OH REALLY? So, if I was sitting in GEN/JSP out on 85% for 3 years, or sitting in a room in a plant JSP for 3 years...doing nothing but collecting a check...or out on community service from JSP...I get my DOE when I go back to an opening...and that is okay...even though I haven't been working in my trade for three years.............

 

but if I go back to production, move my family to another state, and bust my ass on the line because Ford closed my friggin plant......then screw me ...I should get a new DOE?

 

There is no difference brother/sister

 

Neither those sitting in JSP, nor those working in production are "working in their classification".

You had better rethink that position....it doesn't even make sense.

 

Then let me ask you this:

Say a person is going through a divorce and they need to stay on the day shift for child custody reasons. Then through the shift bump process it ends up that that person can not hold days so they VOLUNTARILY sign off their classification to go to production (or wherever the came off the line from). THen sometime in the future the company post a job for the trade that they signed off of. If that person comes back into the trade they signed off of do they get all their seniority back? If I remember right they start with a new DOE. This should be the same for someone who transfers from another plant, signs off their trade classification, goes to production and then comes back to the trade. I am in total agrement that they should have preference over new apprentices or new hires from the street. and should bring their company seniority for vacation purposes. It is the same scenario as a person coming off the line into an apprenticeship.

[S.Knight]

Then let me ask you this:

Say a person is going through a divorce and they need to stay on the day shift for child custody reasons. Then through the shift bump process it ends up that that person can not hold days so they VOLUNTARILY sign off their classification to go to production (or wherever the came off the line from). THen sometime in the future the company post a job for the trade that they signed off of. If that person comes back into the trade they signed off of do they get all their seniority back? If I remember right they start with a new DOE. This should be the same for someone who transfers from another plant, signs off their trade classification, goes to production and then comes back to the trade. I am in total agrement that they should have preference over new apprentices or new hires from the street. and should bring their company seniority for vacation purposes. It is the same scenario as a person coming off the line into an apprenticeship.

Wonderful way to highlight how this isn't quite as easy as everyone tries to make it out. In your scenario, which isn't much of a stretch, I am sure that person is not coming back with their seniority. And if by some chance... Internationals opinion is that they would retain their date...I am sure someone will soon choose to employ the strategy when they need to.

[Fatso]

Can anyone confirm the rumor that at the Kansas City Assembly Plant they are going to let those who took a breakdown from trades, who are working the line now, to come back to their trade classification at KCAP. That they will allow those to come back to trades before exhausting the list of tradesman that are laid off and before ACH trades. Also, they will be coming back will all of their trade seniority begining the week of October 6th. It sounds like those that are in the GEN pool are getting past up if this is allowed to happen. If this affects you please notify the proper channels to get this stopped!

Sounds fair to me.After all it is their plant.They know the job and are qualified.Working at Ford is like a game of musical chairs,with hostile peopel.Ford needs customers not more union headaches.

[level]

According to our union reps placing of trades that went back to production would be done after all JSP and ILO tradesmen were placed back to work

 

 

Your reps are mistaken. But that is an all too common misperception...since it was changed last contract there is a small amount of confusion surrounding it. There will be a small learning curve for everyone, with over 1,000 pages of language and changes.

 

Look at the preferential placement hierarchy in your national contract. They are the first step, since they are considered Laid-off. Lay offs anf RTBU's are the first step.........before any postings.

 

Agree or disagree......it is irrelevant on this posting, since it did go through all of the steps anyway to get the numbers needed.

[level]

Then let me ask you this:

Say a person is going through a divorce and they need to stay on the day shift for child custody reasons. Then through the shift bump process it ends up that that person can not hold days so they VOLUNTARILY sign off their classification to go to production (or wherever the came off the line from). THen sometime in the future the company post a job for the trade that they signed off of. If that person comes back into the trade they signed off of do they get all their seniority back? If I remember right they start with a new DOE. This should be the same for someone who transfers from another plant, signs off their trade classification, goes to production and then comes back to the trade. I am in total agrement that they should have preference over new apprentices or new hires from the street. and should bring their company seniority for vacation purposes. It is the same scenario as a person coming off the line into an apprenticeship.

 

That is a different scenario fordxer,

 

We are talking about trades making a decision at the point of being laid-off or going into JSP. That is a contractual process that gives them a choice at that time.

 

Your scenario above does not offer any contractual choice because of immenent lay off. It is a quit.

 

In your scenario above, that person might be offered to come back to the trade, only before we were going to hire off the street, and they would have to take a new DOE. The reason is that it is considered a quit, and there was no contractual provision allowing such a choice due to the fact that there was no lay off or JSP action pending when the decision was made.

 

It is not the same as a transferee who made a choice allowed by contract that offers such DOE protection and places them in the Preferential Placement hierarchy.....Now that you know the contractual differences....you should understand why your example above is a horse of a different color.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2008 by level

[fordxer]

That is a different scenario fordxer,

 

We are talking about trades making a decision at the point of being laid-off or going into JSP. That is a contractual process that gives them a choice at that time.

 

Your scenario above does not offer any contractual choice because of immenent lay off. It is a quit.

 

In your scenario above, that person might be offered to come back to the trade, only before we were going to hire off the street, and they would have to take a new DOE. The reason is that it is considered a quit, and there was no contractual provision allowing such a choice due to the fact that there was no lay off or JSP action pending when the decision was made.

 

It is not the same as a transferee who made a choice allowed by contract that offers such DOE protection and places them in the Preferential Placement hierarchy.....Now that you know the contractual differences....you should understand why your example above is a horse of a different color.

 

 

Just another question. Does it make a difference if the person signed off a trade classification two years before this new contract was ratified? I would love to have a copy of the national contract to look this up and learn for myself. I also don't want anyone to think I am against a person transferring to my (or any other) plant. And I also understand that a whole bunch of people have had their lives turned upside down. I just don't understand how a person who voluntarily signs off a classification to go to production to transfer with members of their trade who sat in GEN can come back to the trade and not miss a day of seniority.

[Hugh Jorgan]

Just another question. Does it make a difference if the person signed off a trade classification two years before this new contract was ratified? I would love to have a copy of the national contract to look this up and learn for myself. I also don't want anyone to think I am against a person transferring to my (or any other) plant. And I also understand that a whole bunch of people have had their lives turned upside down. I just don't understand how a person who voluntarily signs off a classification to go to production to transfer with members of their trade who sat in GEN can come back to the trade and not miss a day of seniority.

 

Still think you are confused here xer. These brothers did not sign off on their trade. They chose to work in production, as opposed to going home and sitting in J.S.P. This was their contractual right!! At the time it was probably a wise decision considering the fact that everything pointed to these brothers and sisters never getting back into their trade. Now the situation has changed and these folks are just doing what the hierarchy in the contract allows them to do. Nothing more, nothing less. All this speculation about what is going to happen IF the AWS goes away is just that, pure speculation. At my current plant we were told that the c-crew was going to go away pretty much within the first couple of months of implementation. Here we are several years later and we still have three crews in paint and body. And this is in a plant that is currently running only one shift of production. time will tell.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Hugh Jorgan

[meuaw]

Still think you are confused here xer. These brothers did not sign off on their trade. They chose to work in production, as opposed to going home and sitting in J.S.P. This was their contractual right!! At the time it was probably a wise decision considering the fact that everything pointed to these brothers and sisters never getting back into their trade. Now the situation has changed and these folks are just doing what the hierarchy in the contract allows them to do. Nothing more, nothing less. All this speculation about what is going to happen IF the AWS goes away is just that, pure speculation. At my current plant we were told that the c-crew was going to go away pretty much within the first couple of months of implementation. Here we are several years later and we still have three crews in paint and body. And this is in a plant that is currently running only one shift of production. time will tell.

you are mistaken i was offered the same document. it said you are giving up your skilled classification , with out any recall rights. no if ands or buts about it. It was also under the 2003 contract, before any new launguage. its wrong to give them their doe back. say what you want do what you want they signed it that should be it. play game ,tell lies, what ever its wrong and everyone knows it.

[austinford51]

DTP's C-Crew would be added back before KCAP truck side would add a shift back......Trucks are not selling anyway,FORD is probably not even thinking about adding a shift at DTP or KCAP!!! They trying to figure out how to reduce.......If i was KCAP truck I would be worried about them closing the truck side not adding.....

 

Damn General are you that clueless do you believe everything you read in the local 600 newsletter. Your Pres. is a lier KCAP has ordered enough stock for 80 hrs starting in Nov. How many trucks will you guys have built by then? Maybe 10 or 20. Give up man DTP is no longer the leader in trucks KCAP IS.

[level]

you are mistaken i was offered the same document. it said you are giving up your skilled classification , with out any recall rights. no if ands or buts about it. It was also under the 2003 contract, before any new launguage. its wrong to give them their doe back. say what you want do what you want they signed it that should be it. play game ,tell lies, what ever its wrong and everyone knows it.

 

You are wrong again meuaw.

 

The new (2007) contract corrected the mistakes of the past......it grandfathered those back to the St. Louis closing, as time uravelled it showed they were actually dealt an unfair hand, albeit unknowingly.

 

Just like when a member loses seniority back in the 70's or 80's due to layoffs....then 10 to 20 years later a new contract goes back and corrects those mistakes and gives them their time back for retirement......we have done things like this contract after contract.

 

It's no different here...........

 

These folks were dealing with the realities told to them under "WAY FORWARD" (original version #1)

 

After version 2,3,4 and Rocky 5 we all now see that what they were told was not how it was supposed to go. They were treated unfairly...and again...albeit unknowingly at the time....That past error has been corrected......

 

I want to be nice to you, but there are more polite ways to ask a question. However, if you are going to profess your knowledge of contract and try to call me out as a liar and deceiver........It is only going to end up showing "your own" ignorance and stupidity.

[level]

Just another question. Does it make a difference if the person signed off a trade classification two years before this new contract was ratified? I would love to have a copy of the national contract to look this up and learn for myself. I also don't want anyone to think I am against a person transferring to my (or any other) plant. And I also understand that a whole bunch of people have had their lives turned upside down. I just don't understand how a person who voluntarily signs off a classification to go to production to transfer with members of their trade who sat in GEN can come back to the trade and not miss a day of seniority.

 

No fordxer, it does not due to the reason posted in the previous post of mine.

 

1. Whether they signed off at first or not...they were instructed with bad info...at the time it seemed like good info. Way forward 1.

 

2. It doesn't matter if you sit in JSP, go to production, or go into the UAW as a committeeperson.........you keep your DOE. The only way you do not....is a quit. That means there was no closing, no layoff and you just said "f it". (that does ot apply in these cases)

[level]

DTP's C-Crew would be added back before KCAP truck side would add a shift back......Trucks are not selling anyway,FORD is probably not even thinking about adding a shift at DTP or KCAP!!! They trying to figure out how to reduce.......If i was KCAP truck I would be worried about them closing the truck side not adding.....

 

 

Yah General.........Ford...who is trying to save every dime....is moving over a hundred trades at $45,000 each in moving allowances just to lay them off.

 

Do you really think that makes any sense? They are already paying for most of them to be in JSP already. I think maybe Ford out of the kindness of their heart....just wanted to give out 45k to hundreds of employees...cause they are so nice....and it's close to Christmas.

[meuaw]

You are wrong again meuaw.

 

The new (2007) contract corrected the mistakes of the past......it grandfathered those back to the St. Louis closing, as time uravelled it showed they were actually dealt an unfair hand, albeit unknowingly.

 

Just like when a member loses seniority back in the 70's or 80's due to layoffs....then 10 to 20 years later a new contract goes back and corrects those mistakes and gives them their time back for retirement......we have done things like this contract after contract.

 

It's no different here...........

 

These folks were dealing with the realities told to them under "WAY FORWARD" (original version #1)

 

After version 2,3,4 and Rocky 5 we all now see that what they were told was not how it was supposed to go. They were treated unfairly...and again...albeit unknowingly at the time....That past error has been corrected......

 

I want to be nice to you, but there are more polite ways to ask a question. However, if you are going to profess your knowledge of contract and try to call me out as a liar and deceiver........It is only going to end up showing "your own" ignorance and stupidity.

I have said nothing about the new contract, only that this happened under the 2003 contract and about the form that was signed by the employee ,uaw and ford. I saw read what they signed. Did you?

[slapme]

I have said nothing about the new contract, only that this happened under the 2003 contract and about the form that was signed by the employee ,uaw and ford. I saw read what they signed. Did you?

MEUAW as usual you are incorrect and LEVEL is right on target. How 'bout you scan a copy of the letter you are referring to and post it for all of us to see. I'm sure you still have it because you claim to know exactly what it says. Post a copy of the official document and we'll all try to help you understand it. Just because you are regretting your decision doesn't mean you should try to screw your fellow tradesmen. Didn't you say in a previous post that you were a committeeman, how can you represent people with such a 'screw my brothers' attitude? Go back home to your side of the river.

[S.Knight]

Why do trades get $45,000 to move when production only gets $30,000 to move?

 

$45 is a special transfer payment by negotiation between the UAW/Ford.... $30 is the contractually obligated payment that would have to be made if the UAW was unable to negotiate the special... Has nothing to do with production/skill.

[IndyFSBO]

I heard this also. Are you in the trades? Do you know of anybody laid off or in GEN who signed up to go to KCAP and hasn't had the opportunity? I was under the impression that they were having problems getting enough tradesmen (especially pipefitters and electricians) to run the 5 crew trades shift that they are wanting. I would much prefer to see Ford bringing them (those tradesmen that took the breakdown) back as opposed to hiring off the street. Also, there is something to be said for workers that will go to work instead of sitting in GEN collecting free money. They were told they could come back to trades if they were needed and now they are. Also, if they lose their time, then can't they also take time away from the tradesmen that were laid off or sitting in GEN pool. By the way, we have a batch of trades from ACH plants coming on October 27th.

 

 

My husband has signed on for KC (electrician) along with 2 others from Indy & as of today has NOT heard of report date. It would be nice to be notified soon

[mcmoney28]

Damn General are you that clueless do you believe everything you read in the local 600 newsletter. Your Pres. is a lier KCAP has ordered enough stock for 80 hrs starting in Nov. How many trucks will you guys have built by then? Maybe 10 or 20. Give up man DTP is no longer the leader in trucks KCAP IS.

 

because the General is a moron. He is the main catalyst in this KCAP vs. DTP debate. He always throws those backhanded remarks out there like that and then when someone lashes back he atomatically scolds them for making it a US vs THEM thing. Fuck that! I too have been told by many people that KCAP would add their shift back and DTP was done with the F-150. I even heard last week that the schedule has us tentavely scheduled for 2 saturdays in December. WHY, the fuck would DTP be the one to get a shift back? because of their awesome track record at launches?lol.Because they are centrally located and can ship anywhere in the US cheaper?no. The only thing you have is a god damn statue, whippee! We do agree on one thing and that is that DTP is probably the only plant that is NOT going to close. But it just makes more sense to change DTP to a new vehicle and leave KC alone. That plants livelyhood is based solely on the fact that they can change over to new products quickly. We will soon see IMO if they in fact can, because KCAP will be the only plant with the F-150 and will LIVE or DIE with it. Unfortunatly for us we dont have grass on our roof or a statue out front, so if F-150's flail anymore than they have, then in fact we may have to worry about closing the plant since we dont have our moms and dads in our backyards to clean up our shit!

[DTPmustangdriver]

because the General is a moron. He is the main catalyst in this KCAP vs. DTP debate. He always throws those backhanded remarks out there like that and then when someone lashes back he atomatically scolds them for making it a US vs THEM thing. Fuck that! I too have been told by many people that KCAP would add their shift back and DTP was done with the F-150. I even heard last week that the schedule has us tentavely scheduled for 2 saturdays in December. WHY, the fuck would DTP be the one to get a shift back? because of their awesome track record at launches?lol.Because they are centrally located and can ship anywhere in the US cheaper?no. The only thing you have is a god damn statue, whippee! We do agree on one thing and that is that DTP is probably the only plant that is NOT going to close. But it just makes more sense to change DTP to a new vehicle and leave KC alone. That plants livelyhood is based solely on the fact that they can change over to new products quickly. We will soon see IMO if they in fact can, because KCAP will be the only plant with the F-150 and will LIVE or DIE with it. Unfortunatly for us we dont have grass on our roof or a statue out front, so if F-150's flail anymore than they have, then in fact we may have to worry about closing the plant since we dont have our moms and dads in our backyards to clean up our shit!

:reading: I really can't see DTP holding on to the F-150. Unable to handle the 8' box and the 'Flair' sides . . . Bring back the Mustang to Dearborn where it has history. . . It should have never left. :shades:

[ellu369]

Why do trades get $45,000 to move when production only gets $30,000 to move?

 

 

Trades got more stuff?? Or maybe that is to move all the tools they got with their "tool allowance" LOL.

 

Are you sure that is not just a shithouse rumor. I don't think the trades get a bigger moving allowance.

[slapme]

So, I've been out of the loop for a couple of days, has anything happened on this? Anybody been reinstated in the trades yet? Just curious, I hadn't seen any chatter about it lately.

[tincup2b]

My husband has signed on for KC (electrician) along with 2 others from Indy & as of today has NOT heard of report date. It would be nice to be notified soon

I'm trying to get a report date on our end but have been unable to do so at this point. If I hear something I will let you know. Sorry for the lack of help on the report date.

[IndyFSBO]

My husband & 2 others report this Monday the 1st to KCAP (electricians from Indy)...anyone looking for a house in Indiana...lol

 

Would love to join the hubby in KC soon but with this housing market it looks like it's going to be a long time:(

[Fatso]

because the General is a moron. He is the main catalyst in this KCAP vs. DTP debate. He always throws those backhanded remarks out there like that and then when someone lashes back he atomatically scolds them for making it a US vs THEM thing. Fuck that! I too have been told by many people that KCAP would add their shift back and DTP was done with the F-150. I even heard last week that the schedule has us tentavely scheduled for 2 saturdays in December. WHY, the fuck would DTP be the one to get a shift back? because of their awesome track record at launches?lol.Because they are centrally located and can ship anywhere in the US cheaper?no. The only thing you have is a god damn statue, whippee! We do agree on one thing and that is that DTP is probably the only plant that is NOT going to close. But it just makes more sense to change DTP to a new vehicle and leave KC alone. That plants livelyhood is based solely on the fact that they can change over to new products quickly. We will soon see IMO if they in fact can, because KCAP will be the only plant with the F-150 and will LIVE or DIE with it. Unfortunatly for us we dont have grass on our roof or a statue out front, so if F-150's flail anymore than they have, then in fact we may have to worry about closing the plant since we dont have our moms and dads in our backyards to clean up our shit!

You dare cheapen the Statue of Henry Ford next to the Miller Road overpass!WHO COULD SAY SUCH A THING!Seriously how the hell do I know what Ford basis their decisions on?All I know is we just ran a 'Standard Cab' through the building and we can not handle the 8 foot box.Look on the bright side.At least the Kansas City Chiefs won,one football game.That is one more than the Detroit Lions!

Edited October 28, 2008 by Fatso