Kudos to Jim Cramer

[napbob]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

[lquidspine]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

Good to hear Nap.

 

Just curious though why this was Moved seems this has something to do with the Employees of FMC does it not?

 

Mod's ?

[Versa-Tech]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

I have no invested interest in the big 3. The UAW can go to hell.

[Len_A]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

About damn time.

[TheEagle]

I have no invested interest in the big 3. The UAW can go to hell.

I am sure the BIG 3 have no interest in your imbread ass. UAW has been to hell and back. We are still standing. :happy feet:

[RangerM]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

 

I have absolutely no problem with the guy making a fender or putting in a transmission......BUT

 

How many UAW members are being paid 95% of normal salary (plus benefits) as part of the "Jobs Bank"? 1n 2005, there were 12,000 people part of this, and there is no current source of how many are there, but I'd bet its more. I know this is still happening, but the Big 3 and UAW is very quiet (understandibly) about the actual data.

 

BTW, here is the evidence that in 2005, there were 12,000.

 

WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

 

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

 

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.

 

Until this problem is resolved, I see no reason that tax money should support this scheme, and I agree with Versa-Tech on this. Either cut this overbearing Union mentality, or be willing to lose everything with it.

[lquidspine]

I have absolutely no problem with the guy making a fender or putting in a transmission......BUT

 

How many UAW members are being paid 95% of normal salary (plus benefits) as part of the "Jobs Bank"? 1n 2005, there were 12,000 people part of this, and there is no current source of how many are there, but I'd bet its more. I know this is still happening, but the Big 3 and UAW is very quiet (understandibly) about the actual data.

 

BTW, here is the evidence that in 2005, there were 12,000.

 

 

 

Until this problem is resolved, I see no reason that tax money should support this scheme, and I agree with Versa-Tech on this. Either cut this overbearing Union mentality, or be willing to lose everything with it.

Well since 2005 there is roughly half the workforce(around 40,000) buyouts helped the company trim the excess workforce.

The problem has been resolved, there is time limits and job offer limits to go with the JSP program now. Yet another concession given by the UAW to help the company compete.

 

Willing to lose everything with it ? trust me workers want the companies to succeed just as much as you don't want the Union mentality, and they have done allot in the last 3 years to help the Big 3.

 

Let me guess a 400,000 dollar party a few weeks after the Big 3 get the bailout is acceptable ?

 

Lose everything with it, you are talking millions of consumers is that really what this country needs right now ?

[OAC_Sparky]

I have absolutely no problem with the guy making a fender or putting in a transmission......BUT

 

How many UAW members are being paid 95% of normal salary (plus benefits) as part of the "Jobs Bank"? 1n 2005, there were 12,000 people part of this, and there is no current source of how many are there, but I'd bet its more. I know this is still happening, but the Big 3 and UAW is very quiet (understandibly) about the actual data.

 

BTW, here is the evidence that in 2005, there were 12,000.

 

 

 

Until this problem is resolved, I see no reason that tax money should support this scheme, and I agree with Versa-Tech on this. Either cut this overbearing Union mentality, or be willing to lose everything with it.

 

It's funny how a lot of people don't mind paying taxes to help pay for a local hockey team and can't afford to take their family to a game; that team in turn pays a hockey player $5 million dollars a year to play 84 games a year (84 games x 3 hours=252 hours a year IF they play every game). Who in turn after his career packs up his crap and moves back to Russia.

 

Yet they begrudge an autoworker that puts in 2000 hours a year wrecking his body on an assembly line for his $70 000 a year salary. Who, for his whole life, lives, spends and dies in the community that he's part of.

[RangerM]

Well since 2005 there is roughly half the workforce(around 40,000) buyouts helped the company trim the excess workforce.

The problem has been resolved, there is time limits and job offer limits to go with the JSP program now. Yet another concession given by the UAW to help the company compete.

 

Willing to lose everything with it ? trust me workers want the companies to succeed just as much as you don't want the Union mentality, and they have done allot in the last 3 years to help the Big 3.

 

Let me guess a 400,000 dollar party a few weeks after the Big 3 get the bailout is acceptable ?

 

Lose everything with it, you are talking millions of consumers is that really what this country needs right now ?

 

Full disclosure: I am not an autoworker, or in an auto-related profession, so my info is limited to what I can read in the news.

 

Now, I am not in favor of CEO bonuses for poor performance anymore than I am for paying someone to sit in a room (with benefits).

 

You say the problem has been resolved. Here is what I see:

GM to cut up to 700 local jobs (Lansing State Journal)

The benefits idled workers receive will depend on how long they have worked at GM and which of the two pay scales the employee receives. Under GM's contract with the United Auto Workers union, noncore production workers are paid at about half the rate received by production workers, who earn an average of $29 per hour.

 

Workers in the upper pay scale will be eligible for state unemployment benefits plus "sub-pay" - money that supplements a worker's unemployment benefits for up to 85 percent of regular pay. After 48 weeks of unemployment, upper-tier workers enter the JOBS Bank, which grants an employee a regular, 40-hour paycheck in exchange for performing community service, taking classes or doing nontraditional work at GM facilities.

 

But workers on the lower tier, who have less than a year of service, will only be eligible for state unemployment, which maxes out at $362 per week. These people aren't eligible for the JOBS Bank either.

 

Here's another:

Fenton, Mo., plant rolls out its last minivan (Chicago Tribune)

Laid-off workers will get state unemployment and supplemental unemployment benefits provided by Chrysler for up to 48 weeks. Once they’ve exhausted these benefits, workers will return to Chrysler’s payroll and enter the “Jobs Bank” program for up to two years. There they will wait for work or a chance to transfer to another Chrysler plant.

 

Under the most recent UAW labor contract, Chrysler workers can receive up to four offers to transfer, according to a union official. On the final offer, workers either must accept or are dropped from the payroll.

 

I've got a LOT more if you want. Is a 2-year limit resolving the problem? So we want Joe Taxpayer paying someone (anyone?) to sit? I'm finding that just as hard to swallow as paying a CEO millions.

 

Should We Really Bail Out $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

 

Whether you bailout the Big 3, and pay one man $25,000,000 or you pay 1,000 workers $25,000, the money is exactly the same to me, Joe Taxpayer.

 

The only difference is one is "spreading the wealth" (MY wealth) to a different number of people for not doing anything.

 

I'm not trying to beat up on the guys doing the work, but unfortunately it's reality that's weighing them down, not me.

[RangerM]

It's funny how a lot of people don't mind paying taxes to help pay for a local hockey team and can't afford to take their family to a game; that team in turn pays a hockey player $5 million dollars a year to play 84 games a year (84 games x 3 hours=252 hours a year IF they play every game). Who in turn after his career packs up his crap and moves back to Russia.

 

Yet they begrudge an autoworker that puts in 2000 hours a year wrecking his body on an assembly line for his $70 000 a year salary. Who, for his whole life, lives, spends and dies in the community that he's part of.

 

It's funny how people assume to know the truth.

 

I don't vote for (and have NEVER voted for) such bond issues, and I don't pay to go to professional sports events.....ever. I've been to a pro basketball game, but the tickets were a gift.

 

I never spend any money (directly anyway) supporting those whose only marketable skill is bouncing a ball. I have never paid for any sports memorabilia, other than for my University, which I also donate to. We clear?

 

I don't begrudge a worker. (talk about "wrecking your body", ever lay brick or block? If you have we'll talk.) I resent being told how we (the American People) should support a system that allows such crap (as listed above) to go on.

 

Some, like Ken Pool (above), have been a part of an arcane system that has allowed them to reap huge benefits (not shared by the general public and completely out of whack with the market).

 

It's time to join the real world.

Edited November 11, 2008 by RangerM

[mettech]

It's funny how a lot of people don't mind paying taxes to help pay for a local hockey team and can't afford to take their family to a game; that team in turn pays a hockey player $5 million dollars a year to play 84 games a year (84 games x 3 hours=252 hours a year IF they play every game). Who in turn after his career packs up his crap and moves back to Russia.

 

Yet they begrudge an autoworker that puts in 2000 hours a year wrecking his body on an assembly line for his $70 000 a year salary. Who, for his whole life, lives, spends and dies in the community that he's part of.

 

[NickF1011]

Good to hear Nap.

 

Just curious though why this was Moved seems this has something to do with the Employees of FMC does it not?

 

Mod's ?

 

I can't move, edit, or delete posts in this section. Shoot a message to Robert if you would like to have it moved.

[OAC_Sparky]

I don't vote for (and have NEVER voted for) such bond issues, and I don't pay to go to professional sports events.....ever. I've been to a pro basketball game, but the tickets were a gift.

 

I never spend any money (directly anyway) supporting those whose only marketable skill is bouncing a ball. I have never paid for any sports memorabilia, other than for my University, which I also donate to. We clear?

Key words: "directly anyway"

 

That's my point. You would be surprised at where your tax money goes. How much of your money goes to support professional sports (unless you live in a strictly rural area). And you yourself even say that you don't go to the games.

 

People get up in arms about tax money spent to help the working man when the Enrons of the business world rob us blind.

 

And yes, I've laid brick and I'd take it over roofing, which I've done too. I've done worse jobs in my life, some of them at good old Ford Mo Co.

[Hemiman]

Did anyone see mad money tonight? Cramer took up for the autoworkers. He said wall street guys making more in a day than an autoworker makes in a year are complaining about the uaw causing the big 3 to go broke. He refered to people making 70 million a year that are capable of moving paper from one desk to another but can they make a fender or put in a transmission. Good to hear somebody take up for us.

 

 

I've worked in both a Union and in Management. Both sides have thier issues. On this one, I agree completely with Cramer. These "money changers" make Union or Company greed look like childs-play. What a laugh that our retirment plans are set up to keep these folks in the wealth.

 

Like a said on another thread. I'm investing in muscle cars from this point forward. They may be rendered worthless by the time I retire, but at least I'll have some fun in them.

[Versa-Tech]

I am sure the BIG 3 have no interest in our imbread asses. UAW has sent the American auto industry to hell and it's never coming back. We lack any standing. :happy feet:

Fixed it for yah :shades:

[RangerM]

Key words: "directly anyway"

 

That's my point. You would be surprised at where your tax money goes. How much of your money goes to support professional sports (unless you live in a strictly rural area). And you yourself even say that you don't go to the games.

 

People get up in arms about tax money spent to help the working man when the Enrons of the business world rob us blind.

 

And yes, I've laid brick and I'd take it over roofing, which I've done too. I've done worse jobs in my life, some of them at good old Ford Mo Co.

 

Can't say I ever done any roofing, but I can imagine how it would be tough as well.

 

I understand what you're saying (about the misuse of taxes), and even though I consider myself a fiscal conservative, I'm not without heart.

 

If the UAW, through the dues paid by the currently-working members, took over the costs of covering the retirees/laid-off workers benefits, then I am all for providing a bailout to the Big 3, but if a single dollar goes to maintain a "jobs bank" or 53%-higher-than-the-next highest-market-price for labor, then no. Can you blame anyone who doesn't receive such benefits for feeling that way?

 

I don't (and won't) defend any nefarious dealings of the executives (Enron or otherwise) whose sole motivation is to line their own pockets.

 

I, as a taxpayer, did not get a say in negotiations of these labor contracts, and feel absolutely no obligation. Sorry, but I don't.

 

The most substantial (and best) way for me, Joe Taxpayer, to support the Big 3 is to purchase one of their products. I have in the past, and hope to in the future. However, they won't get my support when I purchase their product, and they retroactively raise the price.

Edited November 11, 2008 by RangerM

[Len_A]

Full disclosure: I am not an autoworker, or in an auto-related profession, so my info is limited to what I can read in the news.

 

Now, I am not in favor of CEO bonuses for poor performance anymore than I am for paying someone to sit in a room (with benefits).

 

You say the problem has been resolved. Here is what I see:

GM to cut up to 700 local jobs (Lansing State Journal)

 

 

Here's another:

Fenton, Mo., plant rolls out its last minivan (Chicago Tribune)

 

 

I've got a LOT more if you want. Is a 2-year limit resolving the problem? So we want Joe Taxpayer paying someone (anyone?) to sit? I'm finding that just as hard to swallow as paying a CEO millions.

 

Should We Really Bail Out $73.20 Per Hour Labor?

 

Whether you bailout the Big 3, and pay one man $25,000,000 or you pay 1,000 workers $25,000, the money is exactly the same to me, Joe Taxpayer.

 

The only difference is one is "spreading the wealth" (MY wealth) to a different number of people for not doing anything.

 

I'm not trying to beat up on the guys doing the work, but unfortunately it's reality that's weighing them down, not me.

Jobs Banks is something being whittled down by the most recent contract. The most recent contract also drops those $70+ per hour labor costs down to within striking range of Toyota in 2010, Link Here, but the "author" of the iStockAnalyst.com article (I prefer to think of Mark Perry as an assclown) choose not to do very simple research and report all of the facts.

Now here's an absolute fact: Failure of any one of the Detroit 3 will result in over 3 million job losses. Furthermore, the assembly and engine and transmission manufacturing operations of all the transplants reply on the same suppliers that GM, Ford, and Chrysler use. Bring down GM, or Ford, or Chrysler, you bring down at least several parts suppliers, and in short order, all auto manufacturing in North America ceases, wiht all the ripple effect layoffs from the rest of the suppliers and the communities that depend on those plants.

 

From this week's Automotive News:

 

Falling dominoes

 

If one or more of the Detroit 3 lurch into bankruptcy, the ripple effect would knock out many of their suppliers -- and the North American assembly plants of Asian and European automakers that buy components from those suppliers.

 

Last week the Center for Automotive Research, a consulting firm in suburban Detroit, released a study estimating that the bankruptcy of one or two of the Detroit 3 automakers would trigger the loss of nearly 240,000 automaker jobs, 795,000 supplier jobs and 1.4 million jobs in the general economy.

 

John Wolkonowicz, an analyst for Global Insight in Lexington, Mass., questions whether suppliers could survive unscathed after a Detroit 3 bankruptcy.

 

"If GM goes down, it will take down companies like Lear and Johnson Controls," Wolkonowicz says. "That will shut Ford down, and it would shut down production at Toyota and Honda. They would go down like dominoes."

One supplier CEO agreed. "Any occurrence of bad debt would be a death blow to the industry," said the executive, who asked not to be identified because he does business with the Detroit 3.

 

"If GM filed for bankruptcy, … the impact would be so catastrophic that it would make the current industrial downturn look like a walk in the park."

 

My neighbor works at one such supplier, running on skinny profit margins and unable to survive without the cash flow generated by GM, Ford, and Chrysler paying their bills: Metaldyne. Metaldyne supplies not just the majority of automakers in North America - they supply all of them. GM,Ford, or Chrysler file Chapter 11, all existing bills get tied up in bankruptcy court. My neighbor said that Metaldyne would go down within a week to two weeks, and there is no chance any of the components they make can be resourced in less than three months.

 

To make matters more complicated, the suppliers may make the parts for the automakers, but in most cases the tooling used is owned by the automakers.

 

Auto manufacturing in this country is a house of cards - pull one, you bring down all of them, plus the majority of steel, glass, and tire production, plus all the parts suppliers, and the dealers.

 

The union has already addressed all the issues in this last contract, that was negotiated not more than a year ago. I do not relish the thought of retirees like my dad taking it in the ass because of the the anti-union and anti-Detroit automaker mentality of some people. Enough is enough. One of my most recent job interviews was one such person railing against the Detroit auto companies, with this idiot spouting off on how we need to let GM, Ford & Chrysler crash & burn, because, well, damn, don't y'all know there's a healthy Jap-O-nese auto industry down south, y'all. I want to throttle the motherfucker so bad, I'm thinking I'm going to stoke out in the middle of the interview. When I pointed out that despite the fact that the Detroit 3 have just under 50% market share, they are still responsible for 70% of the auto manufacturing, he was dumbfounded - he had no clue. When I pointed out that the top twelve parts suppliers are used by all the automakers, he was incredulous, because here this guy is in the machine tool business, and yet he has no clue about the reality behind one of his biggest industry markets.

 

The level of misinformation and just plain ignorance in this country never ceases to amaze me.

[Len_A]

It's funny how a lot of people don't mind paying taxes to help pay for a local hockey team and can't afford to take their family to a game; that team in turn pays a hockey player $5 million dollars a year to play 84 games a year (84 games x 3 hours=252 hours a year IF they play every game). Who in turn after his career packs up his crap and moves back to Russia.

 

Yet they begrudge an autoworker that puts in 2000 hours a year wrecking his body on an assembly line for his $70 000 a year salary. Who, for his whole life, lives, spends and dies in the community that he's part of.

You know, I read things like that union critic wrote on other forums, and I end up doing a slow burn. I can't speak to your experiences, but around the auto industry here, and the major suppliers of glass, steel and tires, there's a phrase used by human resources in ending the employment of people who can't physically handle the job: Not Suitable For Industrial Employment.

 

I see people post on line about being overpaid to turn a screw - what a load of crap. You've got most jobs requiring you to be on your feet just about 100% of the time, eight hours a day.

 

Then there's the "paid for turning a screw" mentality. Yea, right. More like position the part, grab a threaded fastener, position it, maybe by hand, maybe with a four-and-a-half pound to ten pound air tool that may or may not be hung on a tool assist, drive the fastener down, then get the hell out of the way for the next car. Thirty to forty times an hour. Eight hours a day, with, if the car is selling well, a mandatory one hour a day of overtime. Five days a week. Unless the car is selling really well, in which case two successive eight hour shift Saturdays out of every three Saturdays are also mandatory overtime. 50 weeks a year if you're less than five years with the company, with both weeks of vacation set for you - one week in July, one week between Christmas and New Years. Let's also not forget that your work shift may be the afternoon shift, 4 PM until 12:30 PM, for God knows how many years, until your seniority moves up enough to get you on days, so you miss seeing your family five of seven days, 50 weeks a year, then 49 weeks a year (five to ten years seniority).

 

And there are equally demanding jobs in engine and transmission manufacturing plants as well. If most of the union critics have the fortitude to hack it, which frankly I doubt. Not Suitable For Industrial Employment. I wasn't, and I was in a stamping plant with automatic stamping presses that you operated by switches and buttons, but being on your feet, and stopping the press to get in and clear jams out of the way, or reload blanks or coils of steel. Even with double hearing protection, ear plugs in the ear, ear muff type protection over the ears, the constant drumbeat of the stamping presses banging out parts was excruciating. I couldn't hack it for more than nine months. Even with double hearing protection, after two and a half decades in Ford's Dearborn Stamping Plant, and a total of thirty-five years with Ford, my Dad suffered some permanent hearing loss. His pension is an "entitlement"? Bull****. He earned every penny, as did his colleagues. I doubt if any union critic could last thirty to thirty-five years. I know for certain I couldn't. After nine months, I my "Not Suitable For Industrial Employment-ed" own ass and quit. Overpaid? My ass.

 

And these critics would begrudge them a fair income why? Because you've got a degree and they don't? You already have a major benefit to an education. You get to work in a clean, relatively noise free environment at a job that doesn't beat your body to death, even after decades of ergonomics and OSHA. And that's with a union - God forbid you try most of the suppler jobs, equally difficult, at lower pay and benefits without the UAW.

[Versa-Tech]

Can't say I ever done any roofing, but I can imagine how it would be tough as well.

I currently am running a roofing business, as business is plentiful in post-hurricane Houston. It is more physically intensive, dangerous, and requires far more skill than any job held by a member of the UAW. My employees (at all levels of the totem pole) work their asses off for better pay than most companies offer, but nowhere near the money that UAW employees demand and recieve. There are serious injuries on a daily basis. We have no retirement plans. We can't even offer medical insurance. Yet there are about 300 employees that have left their families across the country to work for me. They never complain

 

So I have great standing when I strike down the UAW. They don't have a clue what an honest day's work is. They don't have a clue what an honest wage is. Most of all, the UAW doesn't give half a shit about hard working Americans. They simply have no perspective from which to relate.

[atomaro]

Yet they begrudge an autoworker that puts in 2000 hours a year wrecking his body on an assembly line for his $70 000 a year salary.

 

 

My heart goes out to anyone making $70K a year for assembly line, monotonous work with low responsibility

 

There are a tremendous amount of other people who bust their ass more than that, who don't make as much as that. My father inlaw is a coal miner who would love to see a similar employment package.

 

And to all the mechanics out there who fix cars outside in the winter, get burned soaked, scraped cut and bruised all year too...they work beyond 40 hours a week for less than that.

Edited November 11, 2008 by atomaro

[Len_A]

I currently am running a roofing business, as business is plentiful in post-hurricane Houston. It is more physically intensive, dangerous, and requires far more skill than any job held by a member of the UAW. My employees (at all levels of the totem pole) work their asses off for better pay than most companies offer, but nowhere near the money that UAW employees demand and recieve. There are serious injuries on a daily basis. We have no retirement plans. We can't even offer medical insurance. Yet there are about 300 employees that have left their families across the country to work for me. They never complain

 

So I have great standing when I strike down the UAW. They don't have a clue what an honest day's work is. They don't have a clue what an honest wage is. Most of all, the UAW doesn't give half a shit about hard working Americans. They simply have no perspective from which to relate.

Your business and service to the Houston community notwithstanding, you are so full of shit. Typical anti union rhetoric. Yes, roofers jobs are damn difficult, as difficult as an assembly line job. Do you have the experience of working in any assembly plant, nonunion transplants like Toyota included, working even one day on the assembly line? Because if you don't, then you have no business judging them.

[AAISkinsFan]

I currently am running a roofing business, as business is plentiful in post-hurricane Houston. It is more physically intensive, dangerous, and requires far more skill than any job held by a member of the UAW. My employees (at all levels of the totem pole) work their asses off for better pay than most companies offer, but nowhere near the money that UAW employees demand and recieve. There are serious injuries on a daily basis. We have no retirement plans. We can't even offer medical insurance. Yet there are about 300 employees that have left their families across the country to work for me. They never complain

 

So I have great standing when I strike down the UAW. They don't have a clue what an honest day's work is. They don't have a clue what an honest wage is. Most of all, the UAW doesn't give half a shit about hard working Americans. They simply have no perspective from which to relate.

 

I'd be careful with blanket statements like that versa...you surely will generate some heated rebuttals. Don't believe everything you read regarding UAW workers being lazy and milking the system. Does it happen? Most definately. Does the media beat that point home? On a daily basis.

 

As with any company Ford, GM and Chrysler have their share of employees who on take it upon themselves to do as little as possible. Fortunately there are many UAW workers who pick up the slack and actually do more than they are asked. The system is not perfect by any means, but don't lump in the best of the Union workers with the shitbags that abuse the system. That is a very myopic stance on your part.

 

If you want an idea of what kind of work UAW members have done in the past look at the retirees. Many are hunched over with poor posture and suffer from severe arthritis due to performing repetitive tasks. Don't judge them til you have walked a mile in their shoes. I could go on, but you get my point.

[Versa-Tech]

Your business and service to the Houston community notwithstanding, you are so full of shit. Typical anti union rhetoric. Yes, roofers jobs are damn difficult, as difficult as an assembly line job. Do you have the experience of working in any assembly plant, nonunion transplants like Toyota included, working even one day on the assembly line? Because if you don't, then you have no business judging them.

Yes I have. I know how easy it is to be a worker bee. I know how easy it is to be able to sleep at night because my job requires little to no responsibility. Is it physically demanding, Yes. But physical work ends when you go home. Mental work follows you through your weekend. Please, save me your bullshit. Edited November 11, 2008 by Versa-Tech

[Versa-Tech]

I'd be careful with blanket statements like that versa...you surely will generate some heated rebuttals. Don't believe everything you read regarding UAW workers being lazy and milking the system. Does it happen? Most definately. Does the media beat that point home? On a daily basis.

 

As with any company Ford, GM and Chrysler have their share of employees who on take it upon themselves to do as little as possible. Fortunately there are many UAW workers who pick up the slack and actually do more than they are asked. The system is not perfect by any means, but don't lump in the best of the Union workers with the shitbags that abuse the system. That is a very myopic stance on your part.

 

If you want an idea of what kind of work UAW members have done in the past look at the retirees. Many are hunched over with poor posture and suffer from severe arthritis due to performing repetitive tasks. Don't judge them til you have walked a mile in their shoes. I could go on, but you get my point.

I'm not judging UAW workers individually. I judge the UAW as a whole. I know that there are guys out there picking up slack, this is a universal rule that applies to any situation in life. I know these guys work their ass off, but so does the rest of America.

 

Life is hard. Stop acting like life is only hard for you.

[Len_A]

I'd be careful with blanket statements like that versa...you surely will generate some heated rebuttals. Don't believe everything you read regarding UAW workers being lazy and milking the system. Does it happen? Most definately. Does the media beat that point home? On a daily basis.

 

As with any company Ford, GM and Chrysler have their share of employees who on take it upon themselves to do as little as possible. Fortunately there are many UAW workers who pick up the slack and actually do more than they are asked. The system is not perfect by any means, but don't lump in the best of the Union workers with the shitbags that abuse the system. That is a very myopic stance on your part.

 

If you want an idea of what kind of work UAW members have done in the past look at the retirees. Many are hunched over with poor posture and suffer from severe arthritis due to performing repetitive tasks. Don't judge them til you have walked a mile in their shoes. I could go on, but you get my point.

Blanket statements deserve the heated responses they get. They invite the harsh responses - it would be rude not to accept. Myopic was a good word to describe the union haters attitude, but no mater how polite and civil the rebuttal (while fighting the temptation to really tell him off) all you get in response is to be told to save him your bullshit.