new contract

[diecaster]

Wow, you guys need some perspective, 2.1 BILLION people live on $2 a day or less. You picked the wrong business to be in, Fossil fuel vehicles = death for the planet.

If you are not an employee get the fuck off of our site you green asshole!!!!!!!

[NickF1011]

If you are not an employee get the fuck off of our site you green asshole!!!!!!!

 

I've warned him here and in a private message. If he bugs you guys again in here, someone please let me know. As I'm not an employee either, I'll bug off also, but that also means I don't really police anything in these sections regularly. I try to respect the privacy you should rightly have in these areas, but as I said, let me know if he returns.

 

Thanks!

[chriper]

If you really want to help point out waste that you all see happening everyday.....

 

Things that would help Ford save cash.......

 

I am starting a new thread for such ideas...

 

Name your plant, because your situation may not be the same at all plants, explain the waste and any idea that would save or offset it.

 

Let's get all of these ideas onto one thread without any stupid bullshit.........REAL IDEAS.....REAL WASTE THAT WE SEE AND IGNORE EVERYDAY.......and let's put it on one thread. ONE THREAD.

 

I will call the thread "Cost savings ideas from the plant floor"

 

Let's quit with the in-fighting and finger pointing and all of us ....put our energy into identifying savings we can achieve....onto one thread....together......for all of our sakes.

 

i will start right here ,,who paid for the fancy meeting room at ren center for ron and the boys???? WASTE ALERT ,WASTE ALERT, bet they had a buffet thrown in two,,how many locals would have jumped at the chance to let their large very empy,membership meeting rooms be rented out today???? SO lets start with our own house,and sweep that floor first

[CSMJ]

I agree! we need to have a vote on this. Ron, wake up! Almost everyone in the JSP is there because of outsourcing, look at the numbers at local 898. Practically all product made there in 2007 is now outsourced and now you are telling us that for the good of the many we will have to suffer the humiliation of job loss, possible home foreclosure and maybe even personal bankruptcy. What will you tell the next group of people that loses their job to the next round of outsourcing. Now with the JSP gone I guess our medical benefits will be suspended to very soon too. Thanks Ron, Joel and everybody else who we trusted to do the right thing for all the members involved in this current crisis. How are you going to look at the rank and file, some of whom have 15 years seniority and more, that they no longer have any future to look at while people working in other Ford plants in the area have less seniority then them are still working. Unless you go to a National seniority system these workers, who did nothing wrong will sit out there for a long while. Do the right thing, if there is a layoff do it by seniority throughout the company not by a plant to plant basis. If it means I have to move to keep a job, so be it!

I agree 100% So when ford sells or closes the ACH plants are they gonna layoff my friend at the sandusky plant with 27 yrs while a guy with 6 yrs is still working at avon,lima,walton hills and brook park?

Is that fair? HELL NO and if it happened to you you would be pisses also.

Brook Park,Avon and walton hills are not in great shape for future products just remember that before you say you dont want a natl list. I know theres alot of people at avon with 91,92 seniority. Brook park has alot of 94's. All Im saying is in 2 years or less anyone or all of these plants could be closed and do we really want to put a guy with 19 years in at avon for example out of a ford job while guys with 7 years stay??? Like I said before if thats the case ford will layoff shifts at high seniority plants and add them to plants with low seniority so NO one will get there 30 years!!

ask yourself y did they delay the 2nd shift at DTP?? Could it be they knew there was gonna be an elimination of GEN and a natl list for transfers is coming?? I'd say yes

Edited December 3, 2008 by CSMJ

[rw]

I agree 100% So when ford sells or closes the ACH plants are they gonna layoff my friend at the sandusky plant with 27 yrs while a guy with 6 yrs is still working at avon,lima,walton hills and brook park?

Is that fair? HELL NO and if it happened to you you would be pisses also.

Brook Park,Avon and walton hills are not in great shape for future products just remember that before you say you dont want a natl list. I know theres alot of people at avon with 91,92 seniority. Brook park has alot of 94's. All Im saying is in 2 years or less anyone or all of these plants could be closed and do we really want to put a guy with 19 years in at avon for example out of a ford job while guys with 7 years stay??? Like I said before if thats the case ford will layoff shifts at high seniority plants and add them to plants with low seniority so NO one will get there 30 years!!

ask yourself y did they delay the 2nd shift at DTP?? Could it be they knew there was gonna be an elimination of GEN and a natl list for transfers is coming?? I'd say yes

When plants are in close proximity employees can usally transfer to the other location if room is available, but plant seniority takes presidence in most cases. It would be a lot of moving and shaking for employees from one location to just transfer and bump a trained employee off their job and straight to a layoff. It all seems a bit unfair any way you look at it.

[chriper]

I agree 100% So when ford sells or closes the ACH plants are they gonna layoff my friend at the sandusky plant with 27 yrs while a guy with 6 yrs is still working at avon,lima,walton hills and brook park?

Is that fair? HELL NO and if it happened to you you would be pisses also.

Brook Park,Avon and walton hills are not in great shape for future products just remember that before you say you dont want a natl list. I know theres alot of people at avon with 91,92 seniority. Brook park has alot of 94's. All Im saying is in 2 years or less anyone or all of these plants could be closed and do we really want to put a guy with 19 years in at avon for example out of a ford job while guys with 7 years stay??? Like I said before if thats the case ford will layoff shifts at high seniority plants and add them to plants with low seniority so NO one will get there 30 years!!

ask yourself y did they delay the 2nd shift at DTP?? Could it be they knew there was gonna be an elimination of GEN and a natl list for transfers is coming?? I'd say yes

 

why hasnt your buddy with 27yrs already signed to flow back,???? or go to raws with the work that came here??last time i checked this is still not a mommy holding hand sevice, its a union,,and what your saying makes no sense,ok so your buddy gets laid off,hes still on a recall list and would be called for available work at another plant ,so as you say ..they add them at plants with low seniority..who gets added???

Edited December 3, 2008 by chriper

[leftski]

When plants are in close proximity employees can usally transfer to the other location if room is available, but plant seniority takes presidence in most cases. It would be a lot of moving and shaking for employees from one location to just transfer and bump a trained employee off their job and straight to a layoff. It all seems a bit unfair any way you look at it.

 

Yes it is , but is it fair to tell a high seniority worker who can easily adapt to a new job that they are no longer needed. In southeastern Michigan there are alot of plants in the Ford system that these people should have the opportunity to move to. Yes it means that a low seniority worker would be displaced but as we've always been told seniority is the most important thing we have, take that away and we have nothing!

[rw]

I agree! we need to have a vote on this. Ron, wake up! Almost everyone in the JSP is there because of outsourcing, look at the numbers at local 898. Practically all product made there in 2007 is now outsourced and now you are telling us that for the good of the many we will have to suffer the humiliation of job loss, possible home foreclosure and maybe even personal bankruptcy. What will you tell the next group of people that loses their job to the next round of outsourcing. Now with the JSP gone I guess our medical benefits will be suspended to very soon too. Thanks Ron, Joel and everybody else who we trusted to do the right thing for all the members involved in this current crisis. How are you going to look at the rank and file, some of whom have 15 years seniority and more, that they no longer have any future to look at while people working in other Ford plants in the area have less seniority then them are still working. Unless you go to a National seniority system these workers, who did nothing wrong will sit out there for a long while. Do the right thing, if there is a layoff do it by seniority throughout the company not by a plant to plant basis. If it means I have to move to keep a job, so be it!

 

That sounds

like a good idea. It would be extremely expensive for Ford to pay transfer fees and relocation fees just to bump a trained employee off of their job, to a layoff status. I would just hate if that happened to me.

[the new eye]

When plants are in close proximity employees can usally transfer to the other location if room is available, but plant seniority takes presidence in most cases. It would be a lot of moving and shaking for employees from one location to just transfer and bump a trained employee off their job and straight to a layoff. It all seems a bit unfair any way you look at it.

we need to stop fighting about that shit and START RAISING HELL AT YOUR LOCAL UNION MEETINGS AN START PRESSURING THESE ASSHOLES UNTIL THEY GET IT , VOTE NO AND CALL DOWNTOWN AN START ASKING WHY THE FUCK THE MEMBERSHIP DONT GET TO VOTE ON THEIR LEADERS DOWNTOWN ONE MAN ONE VOTE!!

[udontkno]

I would like to see what Ron is proposing before I get upset. If the union is smart, which we all know by now that they are average at best, they would pull the okie doke and eliminate JSP but require the automakers to pay sub for the life of the contract. The media will believe the union is making sacrifices but the worker will not be totally left out in the cold. Instead of sitting in a room drawing 100% pay, they will draw 85% at home while they wait for a transfer.

 

I totally agree with National Seniority! If done right, it would be a win-win for the company and employees. The highest seniority laid off worker would have to bump the lowest worker in Fords system, this will prevent Ford from laying off high seniority workers and keeping the workers at other plants with less seniority possibly making the second tier wage $15 an hour.

 

Now if Ron does not accept both of these conditions, then all of the union workers that work in a right-to-work state should withdraw from the union and not pay dues until the union replaces Ron and Bob King and the other two clowns. This is our union that these guys are screwing and have been screwing for years. It is time we let our international reps know who pay their wage!

[CSMJ]

I would like to see what Ron is proposing before I get upset. If the union is smart, which we all know by now that they are average at best, they would pull the okie doke and eliminate JSP but require the automakers to pay sub for the life of the contract. The media will believe the union is making sacrifices but the worker will not be totally left out in the cold. Instead of sitting in a room drawing 100% pay, they will draw 85% at home while they wait for a transfer.

 

I totally agree with National Seniority! If done right, it would be a win-win for the company and employees. The highest seniority laid off worker would have to bump the lowest worker in Fords system, this will prevent Ford from laying off high seniority workers and keeping the workers at other plants with less seniority possibly making the second tier wage $15 an hour.

 

Now if Ron does not accept both of these conditions, then all of the union workers that work in a right-to-work state should withdraw from the union and not pay dues until the union replaces Ron and Bob King and the other two clowns. This is our union that these guys are screwing and have been screwing for years. It is time we let our international reps know who pay their wage!

agree internatl reps need to get paid like we do, no more perks no more "MEETINGS" in LAS VEGAS or SAN DIEGO instead have them in DETROIT or DEARBORN. NO MORE DOUBLE PENSIONS!!!!

[Pioneer]

agree internatl reps need to get paid like we do, no more perks no more "MEETINGS" in LAS VEGAS or SAN DIEGO instead have them in DETROIT or DEARBORN. NO MORE DOUBLE PENSIONS!!!!

 

 

And sell Black Lake.

[jerrymaker]

I agree! we need to have a vote on this. Ron, wake up! Almost everyone in the JSP is there because of outsourcing, look at the numbers at local 898. Practically all product made there in 2007 is now outsourced and now you are telling us that for the good of the many we will have to suffer the humiliation of job loss, possible home foreclosure and maybe even personal bankruptcy. What will you tell the next group of people that loses their job to the next round of outsourcing. Now with the JSP gone I guess our medical benefits will be suspended to very soon too. Thanks Ron, Joel and everybody else who we trusted to do the right thing for all the members involved in this current crisis. How are you going to look at the rank and file, some of whom have 15 years seniority and more, that they no longer have any future to look at while people working in other Ford plants in the area have less seniority then them are still working. Unless you go to a National seniority system these workers, who did nothing wrong will sit out there for a long while. Do the right thing, if there is a layoff do it by seniority throughout the company not by a plant to plant basis. If it means I have to move to keep a job, so be it!

Man you are right on target. we are in JSP at rawsonville because of the outsourcing of the alternator, fuel injector and wiper motor. i wish congress would give them the loan only if they would bring back all or most of the products made in other countries. Bring our work back and we will all have a job...

[wildosvt]

I've warned him here and in a private message. If he bugs you guys again in here, someone please let me know. As I'm not an employee either, I'll bug off also, but that also means I don't really police anything in these sections regularly. I try to respect the privacy you should rightly have in these areas, but as I said, let me know if he returns.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Thanks Nick. :shades:

[lackanookey]

I agree 100% So when ford sells or closes the ACH plants are they gonna layoff my friend at the sandusky plant with 27 yrs while a guy with 6 yrs is still working at avon,lima,walton hills and brook park?

Is that fair? HELL NO and if it happened to you you would be pisses also.

Brook Park,Avon and walton hills are not in great shape for future products just remember that before you say you dont want a natl list. I know theres alot of people at avon with 91,92 seniority. Brook park has alot of 94's. All Im saying is in 2 years or less anyone or all of these plants could be closed and do we really want to put a guy with 19 years in at avon for example out of a ford job while guys with 7 years stay??? Like I said before if thats the case ford will layoff shifts at high seniority plants and add them to plants with low seniority so NO one will get there 30 years!!

ask yourself y did they delay the 2nd shift at DTP?? Could it be they knew there was gonna be an elimination of GEN and a natl list for transfers is coming?? I'd say yes

Did these people have at least one chance to leave in the past years but chose not to? If so then they should have jumped on it! It seems to me that every body had a chance at one time or another to transfer but chose not to because of the inconvenience.

[mikem12]

Will there actually be a vote?

 

 

There might be however, as we have seen with the COA agreements the membership did not get a chance to say yes or no on opening the local contracts early. They used the catch all clause to get it done. Then put out flyers stating a no vote for the COA is a no vote to close the plant. Yeah right.

 

I can understand shutting down JSP or GEN. We have employees who would prefer to sit home and draw 85% than take a job anywhere. Can't say I blame them much though. Why should they? Some have been pulling a check for many years! There needs to be a time limit on this.

 

My problem is with doing away with the SUB pay, many of us would be on the streets with out that. It didn't pay all the bills but it paid the important ones!

 

We have to come together on this. When I hired in 79 this was a pretty tight union not now we are fighting amongst ourselves more than the company. We allowed the international to convince us to compete against each other during the COA fiasco and now we will be fighting each other for the remaing jobs. Let me say up front I am not nor have I ever been in favor of national senority. I have never lived any where but MO if I went to another plant I would not expect to take the senority spots since I would be just plain happy to have an income to support my family. I do not expect anyone to be displace by another "Union Brother" because his plant is shut down!

 

Now with Gettlefinger proposing these changes even before the company explains what they percieve they need he has offered up the farm lock stock and barrell.

 

Who's he working for, the company or the UAW??

 

Mike

[Emigh]

I agree 100% So when ford sells or closes the ACH plants are they gonna layoff my friend at the sandusky plant with 27 yrs while a guy with 6 yrs is still working at avon,lima,walton hills and brook park?

Is that fair? HELL NO and if it happened to you you would be pisses also.

Brook Park,Avon and walton hills are not in great shape for future products just remember that before you say you dont want a natl list. I know theres alot of people at avon with 91,92 seniority. Brook park has alot of 94's. All Im saying is in 2 years or less anyone or all of these plants could be closed and do we really want to put a guy with 19 years in at avon for example out of a ford job while guys with 7 years stay??? Like I said before if thats the case ford will layoff shifts at high seniority plants and add them to plants with low seniority so NO one will get there 30 years!!

ask yourself y did they delay the 2nd shift at DTP?? Could it be they knew there was gonna be an elimination of GEN and a natl list for transfers is coming?? I'd say yes

Why don't they get rid of Legal Service? The main office on Second, all of the branch offices all of the US. How good are they really? Is it worth keeping? Get rid of the Union Coordinators that are making really good money and perks. After all, it was part of our benefits, why not cut them out?

Edited December 4, 2008 by Emigh

[Pioneer]

We have employees who would prefer to sit home and draw 85% than take a job anywhere.

 

Or, you have people like me that have not had any transfer opportunities.

 

Please do not stereotype everybody in JSP.

[Pioneer]

Why don't they get rid of Legal Service?

 

 

I agree. I haven't used them in 15 years, and I do not foresee any time I would.

[lackanookey]

Or, you have people like me that have not had any transfer opportunities.

 

Please do not stereotype everybody in JSP.

did you try edison?

[whiteford]

Or, you have people like me that have not had any transfer opportunities.

 

Please do not stereotype everybody in JSP.

 

 

I second that!

[Pioneer]

did you try edison?

 

 

I didn't know they were hiring/testing until they had already pulled the job postings.

[cecilmeyer]

its who counts the votes my friend!! FORD does not need to eliminate JSP GM has the layoff problem not FORD

Ron said JSP at GM is SUSPENDED not at FORD. YET, but hes willing to talk to ford about it also!!WTF

What next ron are u gonna raise our dues to cover for the lost ones due to layoffs too???

I say cut our pay a little at ford and keep the JSP for the ones laidoff Im willing to do that!!

$450 million is what it cost big 3 this year thats a drop in the bucket RON WTF

\ NO JSP =NO SUBPAY EITHER remember that

U get laidoff more then 4 weeks your insurance stops!! Remember that when u vote

You are incorrect about subpay.Each union member is entitled to 48 weeks of sub during the life of the contract.After your sub runs out you go into the JSP.Also I am not willing to take any paycut to support Uaw members who refuse to move to another plant for a job.You are correct on your view on Give it away Gettlefinger!He should be removed along with Bob King and all the rest of the International reps for selling out the membership.

[cecilmeyer]

There might be however, as we have seen with the COA agreements the membership did not get a chance to say yes or no on opening the local contracts early. They used the catch all clause to get it done. Then put out flyers stating a no vote for the COA is a no vote to close the plant. Yeah right.

 

I can understand shutting down JSP or GEN. We have employees who would prefer to sit home and draw 85% than take a job anywhere. Can't say I blame them much though. Why should they? Some have been pulling a check for many years! There needs to be a time limit on this.

 

My problem is with doing away with the SUB pay, many of us would be on the streets with out that. It didn't pay all the bills but it paid the important ones!

 

We have to come together on this. When I hired in 79 this was a pretty tight union not now we are fighting amongst ourselves more than the company. We allowed the international to convince us to compete against each other during the COA fiasco and now we will be fighting each other for the remaing jobs. Let me say up front I am not nor have I ever been in favor of national senority. I have never lived any where but MO if I went to another plant I would not expect to take the senority spots since I would be just plain happy to have an income to support my family. I do not expect anyone to be displace by another "Union Brother" because his plant is shut down!

 

Now with Gettlefinger proposing these changes even before the company explains what they percieve they need he has offered up the farm lock stock and barrell.

 

Who's he working for, the company or the UAW??

 

Mike

Edited December 4, 2008 by cecilmeyer

[Justhefacts]

I would like to see what Ron is proposing before I get upset. If the union is smart, which we all know by now that they are average at best, they would pull the okie doke and eliminate JSP but require the automakers to pay sub for the life of the contract. The media will believe the union is making sacrifices but the worker will not be totally left out in the cold. Instead of sitting in a room drawing 100% pay, they will draw 85% at home while they wait for a transfer.

 

I totally agree with National Seniority! If done right, it would be a win-win for the company and employees. The highest seniority laid off worker would have to bump the lowest worker in Fords system, this will prevent Ford from laying off high seniority workers and keeping the workers at other plants with less seniority possibly making the second tier wage $15 an hour.

 

Now if Ron does not accept both of these conditions, then all of the union workers that work in a right-to-work state should withdraw from the union and not pay dues until the union replaces Ron and Bob King and the other two clowns. This is our union that these guys are screwing and have been screwing for years. It is time we let our international reps know who pay their wage!

 

So...what happens when that guy with say 16 years bumps into a plant with a mean seniority of say 22 years and a year later is laid off? He has to what, try and sell his home again and move his family to another state, only to be laid off again a year later. How many times is Ford gonna pay to move a person? If you have ever been a plant that has multiple building like the Rouge site & seen the screw up's that happen with a lay-off just in that facility you think that they can coordinate a U.S. wide bump and get it right......Yea right. The problem with the Union as I see it has been and still is the protection of the SLUGS. We have "Skilled Trades" that would not last to the end of a shift in a outside job shop yet think that Ford Motor Co. owes them a living. I work with a group of "Tradesmen" that have over 40+ years in and wont go anywhere because where else can they sit on their collective asses and make 35.00 an hour. And aren't smart enough to see that with retirement pay they only are working for 3.00 to 5.00 an hour.

 

Don't miss quote me here, we have Tradesmen with high seniority that are damn good at their jobs and come to work everyday & do their work. I don't have an issue with them IF they want to work for next to nothing and do their work more power to them. Its the group that never get asked because it's easier to make someone else do it, that need to go. Make room for a Guy/Gal that wants to work & has a family to raise. And while I'm at it...Why does a plant (DTP) like ours have to have a base of 200 extra workers just to cover people that won't come to work.I'm sure if you put out a bulletin for workers @ 15.00 an hour there would be a line around Dearborn to get one of those jobs.

 

I don't agree that we are the cause of this mess. The leading Dem's in Washington that started this housing mess ruined our economy & now want a hand in running the Auto Company's. You think for a minute that we will get this money if they (Dem's) can't control the "Big Three" your wrong. But the reality is WE do have to WORK like our jobs depend on it..because they do. No matter where you go it seems like all we are to most of America is a group of over paid, lazy slobs. Not that they could work a line for 10 hours doing what we do..but with the drive by media pounding them with this 75.00 hour work force & U.A.W. that has the company hostage...Idiot's. Why is no one (UAW) out their fighting back an telling the truth to them. With out the retirement cost rolled in we are at 45.00 hour just a couple of dollars over the transplants.

 

They truly want to level the playing field? Then if you want to build auto's in the U.S. make all auto company's contribute to a fund for retirement based on the numbers of workers it has & retires draw from that fund. Then see who comes out on top.

Sorry for the long Rant I just had to vent before I blew my top. Thank you Washington Dem's, all the support the Union's have given you & you do this. Remember in TWO years we vote on House & Senate seat's. Better hold onto your chairs.